I think you outbidded me
It was only $5 more. I wasn’t gonna counter.. just figured I’d throw in a bid-
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Mk 13 Mod 0 stock
- Thread starter pmclaine
- Start date
It was only $5 more. I wasn’t gonna counter.. just figured I’d throw in a bid
Y'all see this little nugget? https://www.gunbroker.com/item/887614116
Still working on it I have a original mod3 take off barrel I already reversed all the measurements I have the cnc programs, and proper materials ready to go, family issues have gotten in the way over the past 6 months. When I get the project rolling I will offer turning the crown, barrel profile and collar heat fit and pinned to the barrel then final turned concentric to the bore center line just like crane did. They will not have the gate latch cuts so the suppressor can be properly fit and timed after final receiver threads and torque is completed by the gun smith.
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The gate cuts break into the barrel ( you can see the shadow of where the gate latch breaks into the barrel, crane final turned the collar to the bore center line after the collar was heat fit and pinned, the gate latch cuts and suppressor alignment pin were cut after the barrel was installed you can see the straw color on the back of the collar from when it was heat shrink fit to the barrel and the dowel pin was turned with the collar already fit
(seen by of the shadow of the collar retaining pin finished turned with the barrel).
(seen by of the shadow of the collar retaining pin finished turned with the barrel).
Sorry for bringing up an old wound, but I just saw this and decided to make a confirming post about a similar experience. Unfortunately, my issue was back in 2011 with him and a pre-MK13-ish (aka - 700/300) rifle I had him build. This included a Crane-spec Lilja barrel, Clements-lug (the L-lug), and it went into a McMillan A5 instead of an A2 with a Badger M5 DBM. I also had him profile it for my OpsInc 3rd Model. I did this build thru Kevin O'Neill at HCS, who I sourced my 12th Model can from. Kevin was great thru the whole ordeal.
When I got the rifle 1/19/2012 (sent the parts to him July 2011, with an 8 week build promise since he "wasn't all that busy"), I was VERY disappointed. He insisted on making the lug instead of using one I had sourced directly from Crane years before when I was active duty. He offered to make things right, but I just did NOT trust him to touch it.
The lug was horribly not concentric to the receiver and when installed, wasn't correctly timed to 6-o'clock:
When he bedded it, he bedded under the lug but not the recoil face (???) and there was no pillar for the lug bedding screw:
The muzzle had nicks and dings:
He installed the AI rail underneath with machine screws into the fiberglass instead of t-nuts and for whatever reason, he actually had the rail installed backwards, with the install-opening toward the muzzle (??):
And he made a bolt knob that threaded into the bolt handle instead of using the Badger knob I SENT HIM (his knob at top, Badger on bottom):
I took me about a month to fix everything but the lug. When I had Alex Sitman at Master Class Stocks re-bed it, he said it may or may not need to be re-clocked and it depended on how it bedded in. It ended up a solid 5/8-3/4 moa rifle, so I never changed it. When I sold the rifle, I gave the buyer the WHOLE story on it and also gave him the actual Crane lug, just in case he wanted to swap it:
Fast forward to 2017 and I had the itch to do another 300WM. This time, I had RW Snyder do it, much more as a custom build than a clone. Still with the OpsInc profile, and still with a Crane lug (I had another made to CAD drawings I did based on my original. This time in a Manners T4A and he used a CIP-length bottom metal and mags so I could chase lands ... LOL. I provided him a 721 action. His work is impeccable. This is a solid 1/2moa rifle with FGMM190 or my 208ELD-M loads:
So I am sorry you had your experience and the bad experiences others had. I know I had PMd a couple guys about AJ Brown and my issues with him based on a couple less-than-positive comments I made about having him do a MK13. I guess I should have made a general post, but didn't want to face accusations of liable and possibly damage his business from my one bad experience.
none of your pics came throughSorry for bringing up an old wound, but I just saw this and decided to make a confirming post about a similar experience. Unfortunately, my issue was back in 2011 with him and a pre-MK13-ish (aka - 700/300) rifle I had him build. This included a Crane-spec Lilja barrel, Clements-lug (the L-lug), and it went into a McMillan A5 instead of an A2 with a Badger M5 DBM. I also had him profile it for my OpsInc 3rd Model. I did this build thru Kevin O'Neill at HCS, who I sourced my 12th Model can from. Kevin was great thru the whole ordeal.
When I got the rifle 1/19/2012 (sent the parts to him July 2011, with an 8 week build promise since he "wasn't all that busy"), I was VERY disappointed. He insisted on making the lug instead of using one I had sourced directly from Crane years before when I was active duty. He offered to make things right, but I just did NOT trust him to touch it.
The lug was horribly not concentric to the receiver and when installed, wasn't correctly timed to 6-o'clock:
![300wm_lug_bottom[1].jpg](https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/300wm_lug_bottom-1-jpg.7526699/ "300wm_lug_bottom[1].jpg")
When he bedded it, he bedded under the lug but not the recoil face (???) and there was no pillar for the lug bedding screw:
![lug_no_pillar[1].jpg](https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/lug_no_pillar-1-jpg.7526700/ "lug_no_pillar[1].jpg")
The muzzle had nicks and dings:
![muzzle_2[1].jpg](https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/muzzle_2-1-jpg.7526703/ "muzzle_2[1].jpg")
He installed the AI rail underneath with machine screws into the fiberglass instead of t-nuts and for whatever reason, he actually had the rail installed backwards, with the install-opening toward the muzzle (??):
![forend_1[1].jpg](https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/forend_1-1-jpg.7526704/ "forend_1[1].jpg")
![forend_2[1].jpg](https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/forend_2-1-jpg.7526705/ "forend_2[1].jpg")
And he made a bolt knob that threaded into the bolt handle instead of using the Badger knob I SENT HIM (his knob at top, Badger on bottom):
![knobs[1].jpg](https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/knobs-1-jpg.7526706/ "knobs[1].jpg")
I took me about a month to fix everything but the lug. When I had Alex Sitman at Master Class Stocks re-bed it, he said it may or may not need to be re-clocked and it depended on how it bedded in. It ended up a solid 5/8-3/4 moa rifle, so I never changed it. When I sold the rifle, I gave the buyer the WHOLE story on it and also gave him the actual Crane lug, just in case he wanted to swap it:
![300wm_can[1].jpg](https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/300wm_can-1-jpg.7526726/ "300wm_can[1].jpg")
Fast forward to 2017 and I had the itch to do another 300WM. This time, I had RW Snyder do it, much more as a custom build than a clone. Still with the OpsInc profile, and still with a Crane lug (I had another made to CAD drawings I did based on my original. This time in a Manners T4A and he used a CIP-length bottom metal and mags so I could chase lands ... LOL. I provided him a 721 action. His work is impeccable. This is a solid 1/2moa rifle with FGMM190 or my 208ELD-M loads:
![Is5G2w5[1].jpg](https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/is5g2w5-1-jpg.7526733/ "Is5G2w5[1].jpg")
So I am sorry you had your experience and the bad experiences others had. I know I had PMd a couple guys about AJ Brown and my issues with him based on a couple less-than-positive comments I made about having him do a MK13. I guess I should have made a general post, but didn't want to face accusations of liable and possibly damage his business from my one bad experience.
It's not your fault man, I wouldn't worry about it. There were plenty of other people singing his praises for a long time. USMCSGTS initial post on ARFCOM of a friends butchered mod 2 came shortly after I finally got my parts back after 3 years of nothing, but based on that a friend who also got a build back from him had it fixed up by Red Bull. I'm not sure what his specific rifle had issues with other than the barrel looking like it was contoured with a dremel, but he got it redone just to feel better.Sorry for bringing up an old wound, but I just saw this and decided to make a confirming post about a similar experience. Unfortunately, my issue was back in 2011 with him and a pre-MK13-ish (aka - 700/300) rifle I had him build. This included a Crane-spec Lilja barrel, Clements-lug (the L-lug), and it went into a McMillan A5 instead of an A2 with a Badger M5 DBM. I also had him profile it for my OpsInc 3rd Model. I did this build thru Kevin O'Neill at HCS, who I sourced my 12th Model can from. Kevin was great thru the whole ordeal.
When I got the rifle 1/19/2012 (sent the parts to him July 2011, with an 8 week build promise since he "wasn't all that busy"), I was VERY disappointed. He insisted on making the lug instead of using one I had sourced directly from Crane years before when I was active duty. He offered to make things right, but I just did NOT trust him to touch it.
The lug was horribly not concentric to the receiver and when installed, wasn't correctly timed to 6-o'clock:
When he bedded it, he bedded under the lug but not the recoil face (???) and there was no pillar for the lug bedding screw:
The muzzle had nicks and dings:
He installed the AI rail underneath with machine screws into the fiberglass instead of t-nuts and for whatever reason, he actually had the rail installed backwards, with the install-opening toward the muzzle (??):
And he made a bolt knob that threaded into the bolt handle instead of using the Badger knob I SENT HIM (his knob at top, Badger on bottom):
I took me about a month to fix everything but the lug. When I had Alex Sitman at Master Class Stocks re-bed it, he said it may or may not need to be re-clocked and it depended on how it bedded in. It ended up a solid 5/8-3/4 moa rifle, so I never changed it. When I sold the rifle, I gave the buyer the WHOLE story on it and also gave him the actual Crane lug, just in case he wanted to swap it:
Fast forward to 2017 and I had the itch to do another 300WM. This time, I had RW Snyder do it, much more as a custom build than a clone. Still with the OpsInc profile, and still with a Crane lug (I had another made to CAD drawings I did based on my original. This time in a Manners T4A and he used a CIP-length bottom metal and mags so I could chase lands ... LOL. I provided him a 721 action. His work is impeccable. This is a solid 1/2moa rifle with FGMM190 or my 208ELD-M loads:
So I am sorry you had your experience and the bad experiences others had. I know I had PMd a couple guys about AJ Brown and my issues with him based on a couple less-than-positive comments I made about having him do a MK13. I guess I should have made a general post, but didn't want to face accusations of liable and possibly damage his business from my one bad experience.
But so much for that "legendary gunsmith" as some people in here and otherwise said even after the issues came to light. Maybe too much time on safari and not enough time actually doing his job.
2x NightForce 5.5-22x56 Nav Spec marked(?) scopes
4x NF marked ring caps
OPS AWP Gen 1 PSR rings
Schmidt & Bender PSR with NSN and UID
Accuracy International early tanodized Mod 7 chassis
Surefire FH762RC 4 prong flash hider
Original Mod 0 stock and Mod 5 chassis
Probably an earlier Stiller Wylie, TX receiver with full bolt fluting
Correct serial number range Mod 0 and Mod 5 receivers
Everything built to exact specs
Museum quality builds with a fuck load of rare parts! Congrats!
Thanks, man. I couldn't be happier with them. The Mod 3 is up next!
It's really hard to say. They each have their own qualities that I enjoy. The Mod 7 has really grown on me, though. Here's a couple more of that one.
Well, I'm officially out of Mk13 Mod 0 stocks! Thank you everyone who bought a stock (or a dozen)! It was a lot of fun being able to meet collectors and talk about these amazing pieces of history!
If you've got a Mk13 built with one of these original stocks, post a few pics for us to enjoy!
If you've got a Mk13 built with one of these original stocks, post a few pics for us to enjoy!
Appreciate everyone in the community for sharing their experience & knowledge bringing these stocks back to life . I’ll have 2 built this year! Still need glass though, lol
Posted earlier in this thread but here's a bump in hopes a few others post their latest and greatest
Mod 0 & Mod 3 builds, stand the fuck by!
This one is in the queue. Going to be a tan barreled Mod 3.
if ya need an AICS, let me know. i another not in that photo.Now we know where all the AICS stocks went
Great. Now I won’t be able to sleep trying to justify another build.
Looking forward to seeing your builds come together.
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Working on finishing up Mk13 Mod 0, Mk13 Mod 5, and Mk13 Mod 7 deployment kits.
all the take off scopes and rings i have seen so far are all 1.125 . mk13 mod 2 is also 1.125 and they were running those with pvs26's.
please post some photos. if ya got any. All my photos look to be 1.125.
I literally just posted info from the technical repair standard. Not sure what "scooby doo" means, but the rings issued with the Remington Mk13 were 1.125".
Just a joke man. Not even remotely that serious thanks for the information.
I looked into this topic a while ago, and the only 'reference' that I found re the 1.265" rings was the Mk 13 Mod 3 movie gun made for American Sniper. Chris Kyle was testing a non-standard/evaluation 8-32X NF scope and the movie gun was built with 1.265" rings for whatever reason, but all other documentation states 1.125" rings were used. No expert, but that's my 2cts.
UPDATE: So post 865 below, which explains how the ring heights were gradually increased during 200X-201X due to nightvision gear and a desire to maintain centerline alignment b/t day optic and night vision gear.
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This information makes me wonder if those rings were more meant to be mated with the 32 power objective. Not sure that would make any difference. Probably a better question for some of the optics gurus. Sounds like the 1.125” are the consensus rings no matter what. May or may not have had a few 1.265” rings out in the wild.
the
there are a few other inconsistencies with the mk13 mod 3 movie gun used in american sniper. I would not base anything off of it.
not doubting 1.265 lines up better from a visual perspective. MTXtwelve had 1.265 on his build too. But wanting to emulate the mil rifles , 1.125 is the way im going. Even seen a 34mm PSR scope on a mars mod 5 and it had 1.125 ops rings.
SOCOM does as SOCOM does:
All of these, and others, have been shipped to SOCOM by the thousands. I'm still missing a ring height, so this is a partial collection. Books are accurate for that exact moment in time, but I can guarantee things change.
Kind of reminds me of the M40A1 welded box magazine argument. Yep, the spec in the build book says it has to be welded to the receiver. Did they weld every single one as per the manual? Nope, after a certain period of time there was no point. If you want to build a USMC spec M40A1, per book specs it has to be made with the welded box magazine. Not welding isn't to "spec," but that style was used and is "correct." Same thing with the rings, it's a snapshot in time and might not be to "spec," but it's still "correct."
That being said, when you do your build, know what era rifle you're building and what they primarily used. If you're building by the book, then build by the book. If you're building a different variant, then build that variant. One of the purposes of this thread is to track down photos and documentation of each variant. It's in advisable to put an MA361 mount on a Mod 5 that has a Horus scope, but you could use OPS AWP gen 1 PRS rings with a Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PSR scope. No idea if that latter combo is in the build book, but it's correct for a Stiller Mod 5.
Use your best judgment, find documentation of use, build your clone. I'm not trying to muddy the waters, we can't use a random combo and declare it as "correct." Let's analyze some photos of what they used and create an acceptable, known combination list for these parts (what's in the build manual and beyond it).
Rereading some of the shit I wrote, it sounds like one long fucking platitude. Don't know if I actually gave any info or if it's complete non-partisan nonsense, lol. As with most things in life, I blame tequila!
All of these, and others, have been shipped to SOCOM by the thousands. I'm still missing a ring height, so this is a partial collection. Books are accurate for that exact moment in time, but I can guarantee things change.
Kind of reminds me of the M40A1 welded box magazine argument. Yep, the spec in the build book says it has to be welded to the receiver. Did they weld every single one as per the manual? Nope, after a certain period of time there was no point. If you want to build a USMC spec M40A1, per book specs it has to be made with the welded box magazine. Not welding isn't to "spec," but that style was used and is "correct." Same thing with the rings, it's a snapshot in time and might not be to "spec," but it's still "correct."
That being said, when you do your build, know what era rifle you're building and what they primarily used. If you're building by the book, then build by the book. If you're building a different variant, then build that variant. One of the purposes of this thread is to track down photos and documentation of each variant. It's in advisable to put an MA361 mount on a Mod 5 that has a Horus scope, but you could use OPS AWP gen 1 PRS rings with a Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PSR scope. No idea if that latter combo is in the build book, but it's correct for a Stiller Mod 5.
Use your best judgment, find documentation of use, build your clone. I'm not trying to muddy the waters, we can't use a random combo and declare it as "correct." Let's analyze some photos of what they used and create an acceptable, known combination list for these parts (what's in the build manual and beyond it).
Rereading some of the shit I wrote, it sounds like one long fucking platitude. Don't know if I actually gave any info or if it's complete non-partisan nonsense, lol. As with most things in life, I blame tequila!
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This is exactly it. We shouldnt look at parts in a vacuum but rather at the rifle as a whole or at parts combinations as you said. I try and set my stuff with a specific branch at a specific time.
Documented combinations I have from my images for NXS:
Navy
Remington / Mars
5.5-22x56mm Nav-Spec
NF 1.125 - Old Logo Rings
Army
3.5-15x50mm Army-Spec / USASFC
NF 1.125 - Old Logo Rings
Later Army
3.5-15x50mm HS MRAD MilSpec
NF non logo
(notice last 4x stamped on bolt handle)
Less common stuff:
arms (USNGUNS pic)
Look to Badger w/ 6/4hole
Badger
Rings / Mounts w/ other optics packages
Larue
Looks to be badger w/ Simrad. Likely lifted off another weapons system. (m110/mk11 perhaps)
another
Premier w/ badgers
Horus Falcon w/ 6 hole - unknown brand
Seekins
MK6?
Ops 1.125
Wow, those are some great photos(!). Thanks for posting.
I reached out to The Source, who confirmed that rings changed over time based on the development of nightvision gear over the past 15 years. The original rings circa 2005 were the low ones 1.125" - but over time they got higher and NF 1.375"rings were used with certain NV optics like the PVS-22. It was all about finding the proper centerline b/t the day optic and whatever nightvision optic was being issued. From the expert:
"For flat rail weapons like Mod7 and Mod5 with the iMUNs, you use 1.5” rings or if LaRue use the 1.535” Depends on the user and which SB PMII scope you use or which Component Command you want to copy. Most long range clip-ons are 1.5” centerline. The ARMY wanted 1.535” as the was SOPMOD/WPNAC height. Close enough for most applications.
Before PSR, they wanted rings that would allow the lowest centerline, however with the advent of clip-ons starting with the PVS-22 (which was about 1.38” if I recall) they gradually got taller and settled on the 1.5”.
For the NF 5.5-22x56, pre clip-on, we ended up with 1.375” rings. For the longest time, 1.125 was the tallest on the SR25 and MK11. About the same time as PVS-22/INOD, the MDNS was being developed (finally the PVS-24)...SOCOM settled on the 1.535” centerline for optics."
Bottomline: There was variation over time, so a Mk 13 Mod 0 or Mod 3 built in 2005 would likely use the 1.125" NF rings, but a Mod 5 built in 2010 for use with PVS-22 could have used 1.375" NF rings since that provides the proper centerline alignment. Moreover, a few years later a Mod 5 or Mod 7 built say in 2015 or 2016 for use with a PVS-26 or PVS-30 could use 1.5" rings. (The source didn't tell me what year the ring height for 'flat rail' rifles was standardized at 1.5" (or 1.535" to be hyper precise), but the ring choice for a replica Mk 13 Mod x really depends on what NV gear was being used for a Component Command, what daytime scope was being used, and what year the rifle was made... If one isn't going to spend all the coin($) to try and obtain the proper NV gear for whatever era one is seeking to replicate, then I would use whatever rings work best from an ergonomic perspective. (typically lower). My 2cts.
I reached out to The Source, who confirmed that rings changed over time based on the development of nightvision gear over the past 15 years. The original rings circa 2005 were the low ones 1.125" - but over time they got higher and NF 1.375"rings were used with certain NV optics like the PVS-22. It was all about finding the proper centerline b/t the day optic and whatever nightvision optic was being issued. From the expert:
"For flat rail weapons like Mod7 and Mod5 with the iMUNs, you use 1.5” rings or if LaRue use the 1.535” Depends on the user and which SB PMII scope you use or which Component Command you want to copy. Most long range clip-ons are 1.5” centerline. The ARMY wanted 1.535” as the was SOPMOD/WPNAC height. Close enough for most applications.
Before PSR, they wanted rings that would allow the lowest centerline, however with the advent of clip-ons starting with the PVS-22 (which was about 1.38” if I recall) they gradually got taller and settled on the 1.5”.
For the NF 5.5-22x56, pre clip-on, we ended up with 1.375” rings. For the longest time, 1.125 was the tallest on the SR25 and MK11. About the same time as PVS-22/INOD, the MDNS was being developed (finally the PVS-24)...SOCOM settled on the 1.535” centerline for optics."
Bottomline: There was variation over time, so a Mk 13 Mod 0 or Mod 3 built in 2005 would likely use the 1.125" NF rings, but a Mod 5 built in 2010 for use with PVS-22 could have used 1.375" NF rings since that provides the proper centerline alignment. Moreover, a few years later a Mod 5 or Mod 7 built say in 2015 or 2016 for use with a PVS-26 or PVS-30 could use 1.5" rings. (The source didn't tell me what year the ring height for 'flat rail' rifles was standardized at 1.5" (or 1.535" to be hyper precise), but the ring choice for a replica Mk 13 Mod x really depends on what NV gear was being used for a Component Command, what daytime scope was being used, and what year the rifle was made... If one isn't going to spend all the coin($) to try and obtain the proper NV gear for whatever era one is seeking to replicate, then I would use whatever rings work best from an ergonomic perspective. (typically lower). My 2cts.
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