MK vs LRI follower for ARC mags

[bas402]

There is a fix. One that I've chatted about off/on since the intro of the ARC magazines.

Gotta look at the feedlip geo to get a feel on this. The ARC magazine moves the cartridge in an arc like movement from sidewall to center. Where's the AI stuff is straight up, then over. The arc motion can cause magazine box geometries in receivers to cause the projectile nose to catch. As you are experiencing.

The ramp needs a slight modification. Not really "Dremel tool" level as to get it correct involves a little work.

CAD image of what I am referencing.

It's a service we've done now to quite a few actions. The ghist here is to avoid going "Blackwater" on the feed ramp as it does serve as a lug abutment also.

Happy to help.

C.

Chad how long does it take for you to do this and the cost. I have a Surgeon 591 I need done

 

[LRI]

Chad how long does it take for you to do this and the cost. I have a Surgeon 591 I need done

I'd have it in/out in a week to 10. Normally in/out same day but we have a lot of traffic running through here right now. WE BUSY,

 

[LRI]

I just tried the LRI followers. Dayum they are nice! Worked flawlessly, like they were meant for the mag!

They were! Quite specifically in fact, lol. Glad its working.

 

[LRI]

Email from today and prior traffic:

Chad



I ordered a couple of the ARC mag followers and wanted to give you some feedback. My rifle is not complete yet and I have been curios on how well these followers work. This weekend at a PRS match I got one of the guys in my squad to run one of them for me in his Bighorn TL3 6.5Creed. Feedback was the mag ran flawless with the LRI follower and he also said it was smooth as butter. Cannot wait ti get my build complete and try them myself. Thanks again for all the info on this.



On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 6:37 AM James Griffith <[email protected]> wrote:

Chad



Thanks for the honest and detailed response. I am building a BRX on a Bighorn TL3 so this might be the ticket. I will keep checking the store to see when they become available and order a couple.



On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:51 PM Chad Dixon <[email protected]> wrote:

James,



We've bench tested the followers extensively. So far so good. A guy we've done work for since day one took a pair out last weekend. They ran exceptionally well here in the shop and he had serious issues prior.



This weekend proved educational. Not so much with the magazines, his action needed some revision. He brought us his 6mm Creed's gassed up with ELDX bullets. He and his girlfriend shoot the Nosler comp bullets, which are OTM. They were catching on the feed ramp. The tipped ELDX stuff ran flawlessly.



So, in this instance it was a receiver feed ramp issue, not the magazines.



Another guy ran them in his 6 Dasher. Those were problematic in his action. We revised the follower specific to that round. In a Mausingfield they run GREAT. The issue is the feedlip. In a CRF action you want/need the case to release from the feedlips sooner in the stroke so the case head can be purchased by the extractor. in a PF action you need it later. The tip of the bullet needs to be "in the pipe" of the breech ring. Failure in this regard surfaces as a case that "pops" too hard off the feed lip. It goes to the top of the receiver bore with a nose down attitude and the bullet catches up in the rebated breech ring. A flat faced action like a Bighorn or other may respond better. We've not tested that yet.



So, nutshell. Our stuff works with conventional SA type cartridges like the Creeds, 250's, 260's, 243's, 308's, etc... The short buggers like BR's, BRX, and Dashers don't seem to fair so well with rebated breech ring setups like Remingtons and Defiance. in controlled round feed actions they are the shizzle. So butter smooth you find yourself checking to see if it even picked it up. -No chit!



The nose down problem of the original follower seems to have been solved. We did have a couple that sorta jammed up when loading. The follower got stuck at the bottom. It seems to be created when your not paying attention though. When properly done, they work well. Really well in fact.



The nosing over problem with the original design seems to be solved. They'll still do it, but now they correct themselves. Its something I noticed. I could not make it stop, so I went the other way with the design. Let it and see if it'll solve itself. Thus far that is working. We also opened up the clearances so they'll tolerate dirt and funk much better. That seems to work too although more field testing is needed to see if we truly have it licked.



I'm sending these out right now "naked" in as machined aluminum. 7075 is good stuff. Really, really good stuff in fact. We are running some other parts right now. Soon as they are done (tomorrow) I'll be tooling up the follower job again. I just want to get these out so folks can use them and take advantage of the magazine. It really is a good setup. This follower thing was just an oversite.



Please feel free to share this with whoever.



Much appreciated.



C.

 

[bas402]

Got my LRI followers today for my ARC mags and these things are for REAL! I had the MK Machining printed ones and they never set right in the mag and one of the tips snapped off on me while I was shooting my 6 Creedmoor. Wasn’t a good thing! I put these fillers in and they look and run like they were meant for this mag. Ran them in my Tempest 6 Creedmoor and my TL2 Dasher no sweatrun like butter. Even dropped one in the dirt shook/ blew it out loaded up 10 more, like butter!

Nice work Chad!!!!

 

[bjay]

Got my LRI followers today for my ARC mags and these things are for REAL! I had the MK Machining printed ones and they never set right in the mag and one of the tips snapped off on me while I was shooting my 6 Creedmoor. Wasn’t a good thing! I put these fillers in and they look and run like they were meant for this mag. Ran them in my Tempest 6 Creedmoor and my TL2 Dasher no sweatrun like butter. Even dropped one in the dirt shook/ blew it out loaded up 10 more, like butter!

Nice work Chad!!!!

Yup the LRI seat flush above mag.. unlike MK it sticks out..

By the way i got one extra LRI unused follower
Anyone wanna try it.
20 bucks shipped

 

[bas402]

 

[Triggs75]

I just tried the LRI followers. Dayum they are nice! Worked flawlessly, like they were meant for the mag!

I second this. I use them in my RPR and used to get nose dives when loading 6.5 with stock ARC mags. Ow with LRI in them they are running great with zero nose dives.

 

[LoneWolf_052713]

So I've been running ARC mags in my Mausingfield, sitting in a Foundation Stock with Hawkins Bottom Metal running 6.5x47 since last Fall. I'm running the OEM follower with 0 issues. Mags were tight to lock in and I removed some material from the latch as well as the catch on the mag. 4 mags, 0 issues, 2 with Area 419 extenders. Mind you the Foundation stock is CNC cut specifically for the Mausingfield and not just a R700 inlet. I think that is the biggest issue with the mags. Too many configuration to get it all right. When I was running a McMillan A5 it did not like these mags quite as much as it does in the Foundation. In the McMillan I ran both AICS and Accurate mags with the feed lips cut short and the spring tuned for feeding, but they were not as smooth as the ARC Mags are in the Foundation.

 

[leftyk82]

@LongRifles Inc. have you tested your product with cerakote? If so, are the tolerances such to still allow for dirt/dust to not impact function?

 

[PrecisionRifleGuy]

I just bought myself 2 ARC mags for my 308 R700 in a KRG Xray chassis. I wasn't aware of this problem until i tried a test fit and feed. Looks like ill be trying to order a couple of the LRI followers and get them shipped down here to Australia. A bit of an annoying problem as I bought them for a 6.5 creedmoor im building.

 

[gingerking5566]

I bought a couple of them for cheap from DSG arms. These were the original configuration (the ones they had problems with). I bought them just to see what's what.

Filled them both with 28 rounds, and neither one worked. Rounds were nosediving every two or three rounds.

Anyways...shall I throw them in the trash? Is there any way to make them work?

Are you testing them in live-fire, or dry handling? The rounds in many of my early ARCs don't seem to clear the front of the mag fully when loaded, but run reliably in live-fire.

 

[LoneWolf_052713]

If anyone is intending on throwing their ARC mags in the trash please contact me. I'd like to test if it's just my set up or if it's mag specific. So far the 4 I purchased all work without flaw.

 

[bjay]

There's actually a proper way of disposing them..and im certified to do it..send them to me and will do it with no charge

 

[LRI]

@LongRifles Inc. have you tested your product with cerakote? If so, are the tolerances such to still allow for dirt/dust to not impact function?

It's 7075 AL. I don't see any advantage to coating these. They run very slick as is and I am a firm believer in not trying fix what does not seem to be broke.

You'd be on your own with regards to coating them. I have no idea.

 

[LRI]

So I've been running ARC mags in my Mausingfield, sitting in a Foundation Stock with Hawkins Bottom Metal running 6.5x47 since last Fall. I'm running the OEM follower with 0 issues. Mags were tight to lock in and I removed some material from the latch as well as the catch on the mag. 4 mags, 0 issues, 2 with Area 419 extenders. Mind you the Foundation stock is CNC cut specifically for the Mausingfield and not just a R700 inlet. I think that is the biggest issue with the mags. Too many configuration to get it all right. When I was running a McMillan A5 it did not like these mags quite as much as it does in the Foundation. In the McMillan I ran both AICS and Accurate mags with the feed lips cut short and the spring tuned for feeding, but they were not as smooth as the ARC Mags are in the Foundation.

Please read my earlier comments. Your success has to do with the inlet yes, however you are using the very magazine specifically designed to work with the action you are running. It has to do with the feedlip configuration being specific to a CRF action.

All covered in earlier posts on this very thread. Glad your stuff is running "as is."

 

[Wingnut00]

Just got to put my two ARC mags through the paces since putting my LRI followers in and they feed slicker than greased owl shit now. Not a one cartridge nose dived. I'm very happy. Thanks Chad.

 

[littlepod]

I know this is old news, but I jumped on the ARC LRI Follower group!

 

[LawnMM]

Drop it in the dirt and make another video!

 

[LRI]

Drop it in the dirt and make another video!

I have. It works. That was one of the items on the list when we went through the trouble to make these.

 

[kindabitey]

Mine get dropped at least once per match/ range session. Never had a single issue (6GT/ Impact action)

 

[LawnMM]

I have. It works. That was one of the items on the list when we went through the trouble to make these.

Sorry, that was meant as more of a dig at the mag not your follower. I'm sure your follower is an improvement over the factory version.

It's the mag I don't trust.

 

[MakeSawdust]

I've been running one of these issue free all season with an lri follower. Best test was in MN. There was a snowstorm/rainstorm in May. One stage was 30 seconds, start standing port arms, drop and shoot ten shots from prone at a pretty sizable target at 300something. The driveway and the firing line was covered in sand and there was a mixture of sand/mud/snow/rain that got in everything. By the time I shot that stage it was all over in my mags and action. The mag ran flawlessly all day. The gun got a little sticky, but no real problems and I was able to clean the stage. Thank God the target was generous. In normal conditions the mags feed very smoothly. I have zero complaints.

 

[NovaHunter]

Resurrecting a bit of an old thread. But, I've run ARC mags for parts of 3 season now. Have probably 3000 rounds of mostly 6.5x47L through 3 mags. Up until 3 matches ago, I never had an issue. Ran them in practice, and in matches. In dirt, dust, mud, wind, crazy rain including the epic rainstorm and mud match down in Frontline in 2019. Never had a jam or issue. They ran wet, dry, dirty or clean. All with the original followers and no modifications.

Then comes this year. First 1 day match, both mags I brought to the match jammed. The rounds hung up inside the mag, and would not push up to the feed lips. There was enough open space to almost slide another round on top. I'd have to tap the mag on the barricade or chassis for things to kick loose and the next round to reach the feed lips. Happened on almost every stage. I took them home, cleaned them thoroughly and ordered MKM followers to try.

Replaced followers for these 2 mags ( one was misplaced in another pack for a while), took the 2 mags to the next 1 day match. Same results. Internal Mag hang ups in almost every stage. Came home, took them both apart. Found my third one, took it apart and replaced the follower for it too. And, cleaned all 3 out, and stretched the springs a bit.

This weekend our regional club hosted a beginners 1 day match for guys who had never shot a match before. I had a buddy sign up who was interested in trying PRS, lent him all my gear, rifle, and loaded him some ammo, and we drove up together for the match. Took all 3 mags with me.

All 3 mags had internal jams! He only had 3 out of 8 stages where he didn't have to beat on a mag, or change mags to get it to bump the round up to the feed lips. I was furious....!

I've contemplated buying the LRI followers, but if I buy more followers and/or buy new springs I'll be spending more money fixing these mags then I spent on them originally.

I think I'm going have to retire these things and go with something else. I don't want to. They worked great for a season and a half, but man this year they have just been a major headache.....

 

[grisantib]

Has anyone had experience with these mags with a 6gt in a defiance action in a foundation with hawkins bottom metal. Ive been having a problem with the last round. It seems that that round keeps forward as a result of the shot. Just curious if anyone else has this problem and has been able to fix it.

 

[MakeSawdust]

The meplat is rubbing the front of the mag?

 

[grisantib]

Yes i understand that but when i first load it all rounds are seated against the back of the magazine and there is greater than a .25 gap between the meplat and the front of the mag. After 9 shots it seems as though the round works it way to the front of the mag and causes a jam. Just curious if anyone has been able to stop this

 

[5RWill]

Just got mine in it looks great, fed really well just messing around with it. Of 20 cycles I did have on round slide forward. This is on the XM3. Planning to send my receiver to LRI to be notched anyway though due to me wanting to run 2.960 with 168gr TMKs

 

[Halfnutz]

[/QUOTE]

I've contemplated buying the LRI followers, but if I buy more followers and/or buy new springs I'll be spending more money fixing these mags then I spent on them originally.

I think I'm going have to retire these things and go with something else. I don't want to. They worked great for a season and a half, but man this year they have just been a major headache.....

I have 6 ARC mags that I have purchased used with LRI followers already installed. I've not had any issues thus far. Some of the used look well used, some not as much.
I'd consider the LRI and your existing springs before I spent the money on all new magazines that may or not be better.

 

[NovaHunter]

I have 6 ARC mags that I have purchased used with LRI followers already installed. I've not had any issues thus far. Some of the used look well used, some not as much.
I'd consider the LRI and your existing springs before I spent the money on all new magazines that may or not be better.
[/QUOTE]

I gave my ARC mags away, and moved to Accurate mags. They aren't as compact, but I've never had one fail across multiple multiple guns / calibers.

 

[kthomas]

I've been using solely ARC mags with LRI followers for the past while at the range with 6.5 Creedmoor. Out of hundreds of rounds, there's been zero failures.

That said, not sure I'm at the point yet where I can trust them at a match where they might see some really adverse conditions for extended periods. Any extra friction at the point where the mag goes from double to single stack seems to be the point of failure, and I don't think the LRI followers account for this with debris.

I wonder if some debris channels in the followers would help this issue at all.