MOA or TMR

[DDD5_1000]

I’m pretty new at this and wanting to know which one is better. PSFV shooter, so knowing MILs is easier but I’m looking for a challenge. I am also interested in competitive shooting in the future. I would also like to know which scope has the largest eye relief along with the best tree reticle.

 

[1moaoff]

What is your question? Keep it simple.

 

[Halfnutz]

Mils will challange you enough.
Wtf is PSFV?
You dont need the longest eye relief, you need enough. Most all LR scopes have this by design.
Tree reticals have been discussed alot, it is subjective for the user, and may even change. Less can become more.

 

[DDD5_1000]

What is your question? Keep it simple.

Mils will challange you enough.
Wtf is PSFV?
You dont need the longest eye relief, you need enough. Most all LR scopes have this by design.
Tree reticals have been discussed alot, it is subjective for the user, and may even change. Less can become more.

Prior Service Female Veteran. Thanks for your advice!

 

[DDD5_1000]

What is your question? Keep it simple.

Which measurement is better for precision... MILs or MOA?

 

[SRPowah]

Which measurement is better for precision... MILs or MOA?

Do you prefer base 4, base 8, or base 10? Both options just function as rulers. If you can't read a ruler, the units won't mean much. If you can read a ruler, the units still don't mean much because you just adjust by the measurement read.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

MILS or MOA........

 

[DDD5_1000]

Do you prefer base 4, base 8, or base 10? Both options just function as rulers. If you can't read a ruler, the units won't mean much. If you can read a ruler, the units still don't mean much because you just adjust by the measurement read.

To answer your question on preference, I honestly don’t know which one because I haven’t gotten to shoot at anything more than 300 M. I do understand what you are saying about knowing how to use a ruler. And also with each MOA and MILs I understand how to adjust accordingly. I’m just really excited about learning the aspects and fundamentals of the weapon and the scope! I just bought my rifle today (It’s so ugly yet necessary,lol) and I’m doing the learning on my own. I just wanted to select the right scope.

 

[DDD5_1000]

MILS or MOA........View attachment 7586472

. I have thick skin, I just know that you all are probably excited for me!

 

[BigHat]

Which measurement is better for precision... MILs or MOA?

There is nothing universal regarding optics, but most mil scopes have .1 mil adjustments. That's a bit coarser than a scope with .25 MOA clicks found on higher-end MOA scopes. Personally, can't imagine buying anything other than a mil scope (turrets AND reticle), but that's just me. So many other factors linked to "precision" such as tracking that I wouldn't consider being able to make a 1/4" adjustment vs .36 inch adjustment at a hundred yards to be a big deal.

Shooting out past 500 yds? Buy the best 5x-25x mil scope with a FFP reticle you can afford. Paying more than the rifle costs would not be imprudent.

 

[SRPowah]

To answer your question on preference, I honestly don’t know which one because I haven’t gotten to shoot at anything more than 300 M.

My question had nothing to do with preference with mils or moa. Do you prefer base 4 counting, base 8 counting, or base 10 counting? I am a smooth brain that loves base 10, but my machinist/wood working buddy can think in base 4 without skipping a beat.

Mathematically moa can be finer adjustments than mil but I guarantee you will never shoot well enough to tell the difference. That leads back to the original question: How do you prefer to count?

If you haven't figured it out yet: neither is better. Pick the reticle you like and get shootin. Start reading so you can figure out the right questions to ask, or else you are going to get lost on the wrong stuff like this topic.

 

[Halfnutz]

OP, you are going down the MIL/MOA rabbit hole that countless before you have done.
Go to the home page and read the articles, pay for a Hide Supporter ($20) upgrade and take advantage of the online training, check out some podcasts and save yourself the unnecessary flaming.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

@DDD5_1000 , not having a crack at you.
It's the infamous Mils vs MOA question.
There are some hilarious and heated arguments on threads all through the SH library about this.
Both are simply angles of measurement.
I have a Millirad scope, live in a country predominantly metric.
Others swear by the MOA standard.
I think it is fair to state that the trend has swung to predominantly Milliradian at the competitive level of the long range sport.
Either way, just do what you do, try to improve, learn, and enjoy it.

 

[Pumpdriver20]

Good read here.

 

[ACW39]

OP, you are going down the MIL/MOA rabbit hole that countless before you have done.
Go to the home page and read the articles, pay for a Hide Supporter ($20) upgrade and take advantage of the online training, check out some podcasts and save yourself the unnecessary flaming.

This !!!

 

[hafejd30]

 

[nutation]

Mathematically moa can be finer adjustments than mil but I guarantee you will never shoot well enough to tell the difference. That leads back to the original question: How do you prefer to count?

OP, thick skin notwithstanding, make sure not to take "you will never shoot well enough to tell the difference" as "you suck at shooting". Read it as "you will never be able to call the wind well enough for the difference to matter", because nobody can.

 

[nutation]

To get started, here are some popular Christmas tree reticles:

Horus H59
Horus Tremor3
Leupold FFP CCH
Nightforce MIL-XT
Primary Arms ACSS HUD DMR 308
Vortex EBR-7C

When shopping around, here are a few things to consider.

Mark spacing: Most (mil-based) tree reticles have branches at 1 mil intervals. The H59 and MIL-XT reticles have fine dots interspersed at 0.5 mil intervals halfway between the branches. You might like this or not, but the extra reference points do help a bit when you're holding over.

Illumination: Some illuminated reticles (MIL-XT, EBR-7C) illuminate much or all of the tree. Some (Tremor3, H59) only illuminate a few points on the tree.

Hold-under: You may prefer to have tick marks on the vertical crosshair near the center dot, for holding under for closer shots, or for ranging targets. Horus reticles typically lack tick marks immediately above the center, but most other tree reticles have them.

Low magnification: All FFP reticles have to strike a balance between fine precision at high magnification, and being able to see the reticle at all at low magnification. Really fine reticles are nearly invisible at 3x, while those which you can easily see at low power can obscure the target, bullet trace, splash, etc. at maximum magnification. The Leupold CCH reticle addresses this balance by making three of the crosshair legs into thick wedges. If your scope doesn't go below about 5x, then this is less of a concern.

Ballistics: A few Christmas tree reticles have some ballistics data incorporated into the tree. The Tremor3 has dots corresponding to wind drift (independent of caliber). The ACSS HUD DMR has wind dots and ballistic drop, but only for .308. A somewhat extreme example, the Tubb DTR has dots corresponding to wind plus the vertical interaction between wind drift and trajectory, but only really works for a few 308 loads, and is only available in a couple of (rather nice) Leupold scopes. If you handload, you may not want to have extra ballistics data in your reticle, but wind dots can be calibrated pretty closely to any load in any caliber.

 

[nutation]

As for mils vs moa, pick the one which reduces your cognitive load. There are enough things to keep in your working memory while taking a shot (wind call, body position, wind call, parallax, wind call, elevation, wind call, scope cant, wind call, breath control, wind call, trigger press, wind call...), so keep as many things as simple for yourself as you can.

 

[Mute]

Either or. As long as you understand how to use the system you pick properly, it will work just fine for you. Neither is better or worse than the other. One may be better or worse depending on different circumstances, but MOA or MIL will do the same thing at the end of the day. The simplest advice I can give you is to make sure your reticles and turrets are on the same system and if you shoot with a lot of other people, choosing the one most predominantly used by these other shooters could prove beneficial.

 

[DDD5_1000]

View attachment 7586875

Like I said... I’m new and am going to be getting good instruction from a retired Navy Seal Sniper Instructor. I’ll ask him the silly questions from here on outToday is my birthday and I really love laughing at you GIF Thanks for that oh, I’m a girl that doesn’t have thin skin!

 

[DDD5_1000]

Fr

There is nothing universal regarding optics, but most mil scopes have .1 mil adjustments. That's a bit coarser than a scope with .25 MOA clicks found on higher-end MOA scopes. Personally, can't imagine buying anything other than a mil scope (turrets AND reticle), but that's just me. So many other factors linked to "precision" such as tracking that I wouldn't consider being able to make a 1/4" adjustment vs .36 inch adjustment at a hundred yards to be a big deal.

Shooting out past 500 yds? Buy the best 5x-25x mil scope with a FFP reticle you can afford. Paying more than the rifle costs would not be imprudent.

 

[DDD5_1000]

That is wonderful advice! Thank you for your input. Yes, you get what you pay for as the optic I’m looking at costs 1/4 more than my rifle. Buy once, cry onceam I right?

 

[BigHat]

That is wonderful advice! Thank you for your input. Yes, you get what you pay for as the optic I’m looking at costs 1/4 more than my rifle. Buy once, cry onceam I right?

Have you heard the old adage? I wish I bought a smaller TV? Yep, no one ever says that. Same with optics. You enjoy the benefits of quality optics and if your focus shifts you can get a lot of your money back by selling it. You'll take a beating reselling a so-so optic and you have to live with its limitations if you don't.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

A decent scope and rings will greatly enhance your own, and the rifles' potential.
Happy Birthday!