MOA with Mosin Nagants?

[Rocketvapor]

OOoooh, Mosins, I like Mosins
I just love it when the 'Kicks like a Mule' comments come up.

Yup, a recoil pad is handy with these. Had to put one on for the wife.

She likes the 'Fireball' from her T-53 Chinese Mosin

We usually shoot offhand or with a sling, and I have a somewhat different sling method.

I use Speer .311 150gr HCSP, Sierra .311 150gr Spitzer, and Hornady .312 150gr SST,
with 47gr of IMR 4046 or 53gr of IMR4350.
All combinations do about the same @ 100 yds on paper. About 2 MOA on a good day.

For you open sight snipers
This might help

 

[Erno86]

I only have a short supply of "7N1" sniper ammo left.

 

[fpgt72]

I agree 100% with the above post, and really this holds true with most combloc ammo. It really is not much more then noise makers....as a result I don't shoot it much, and in the automatics (PSL and SVT) it does not see them at all due to it being so corrosive.

There are a few "modern american" made ammo that is on par IMHO with any other off the shelf commercial stuff.

The thing I have noticed with the mosin is the barrel is pretty thin and will heat up pretty darn quick....and as it heats up it will change, you will also learn just how good at cosmoline removal you are.

With a "good" rifle and "good" ammo, I would still stand by the statement that it is on par with any other bolt rifle of the same time frame. They are not bad guns.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Mine's not the most accurate but it is cheap fun.
Many complain about heavy bolt operation that takes a little smoooothing.

I love going the the range when the Pew, pew, pew guys are out ringing steel.
Bang, ting, "hit", bang, ting, "hit".


If you watch real close the two hits (two shot group? ) are about an inch apart.

 

[fpgt72]

Mine's not the most accurate but it is cheap fun.
Many complain about heavy bolt operation that takes a little smoooothing.

I love going the the range when the Pew, pew, pew guys are out ringing steel.
Bang, ting, "hit", bang, ting, "hit".


If you watch real close the two hits (two shot group? ) are about an inch apart.

I agree with you.....last time I was at the club I had the SVT PSL and a Carcano. The wife put on the new member class.....yes you read that correctly, my wife told all the new members the rules, ranges....bla bla bla....these females do exist and I captured one.....

anyhoo.....this husband and wife are a couple rows down with an AR, I unpacked all my stuff, waited for them to finish and hit the lights to let everyone know there are humans down range....go back setup and they start pop pop pop.....then BOOM....the couple both turn and go good doG what is that. She really got put off by it.

Now even at the club I am very keen on making the experience nice for everyone, I am in no hurry, my wife is teaching her class for several hours....so I stop and ask if it bothers you I can stop, The wife said it was really loud....I offer them some of my muffs, and ask if they want to shoot....they take me up on it.

We do a little history lesson, educate people that no the garand is not the only autoloading rifle in WWII, and they do have a good time.

 

[Guthwine]

According to the original manual the rifle is succesfully zeroed if a 3 or 4 shot group lands within a 15cm circle on a 100m, otherwise it would go back to the armorer. (And at that time they were fresh from the factory) From my experience that is what you can generaly expect, after all these are weapons of war, so your main target is a minute of torso.

I guess that they put more effort / hand picked the ones that shot well for their sniper rifles but these originals are hard to come by. So a 1MOA Mosin is definitely not impossible but I would say that they are very rare indeed.

 

[fpgt72]

According to the original manual the rifle is succesfully zeroed if a 3 or 4 shot group lands within a 15cm circle on a 100m, otherwise it would go back to the armorer. (And at that time they were fresh from the factory) From my experience that is what you can generaly expect, after all these are weapons of war, so your main target is a minute of torso.

I guess that they put more effort / hand picked the ones that shot well for their sniper rifles but these originals are hard to come by. So a 1MOA Mosin is definitely not impossible but I would say that they are very rare indeed.

And like I always said, this is new, not after they have been through at least 1 big war, and who knows how many smaller....then we have to think was Olga's mind on preserving the rifle or was she thinking of her husband in prison and if she would ever see him again.

 

[Sooter76]

According to the original manual the rifle is succesfully zeroed if a 3 or 4 shot group lands within a 15cm circle on a 100m, otherwise it would go back to the armorer. (And at that time they were fresh from the factory) From my experience that is what you can generaly expect, after all these are weapons of war, so your main target is a minute of torso.

I guess that they put more effort / hand picked the ones that shot well for their sniper rifles but these originals are hard to come by. So a 1MOA Mosin is definitely not impossible but I would say that they are very rare indeed.

I'm not really a fan of the Mosin and I think expecting 1 MOA out of one is ridiculously high hopes unless you're restocking and floating the barrel. However I do have one Russian Mosin (and a Finnish M39 but that's a different animal) , and what I've found after shimming the barrel is they have a lot more potential than I originally gave them credit for.

 

[Guthwine]

Mine shoots about 2-3 Moa groups as is and I am happy with that result.

And it certainly is enough for any military purpose especially for that time. I read a study once which concluded that the 2 main factors of combat hit probability is how long and how much of the target is exposed, sub moa or 4 Moa hardly had an impact on the result.

I regularly play around with the idea of accuracing it but then the history conserver in me shuts that down.

Does anyone have experience with hungarian Mosins? I might have the chance to get one soon.

 

[Sooter76]

I regularly play around with the idea of accuracing it but then the history conserver in me shuts that down.

Just shim the barrel and action and swap out the trigger for a Finnish M39 trigger. No one but you will ever know the difference.

 

[magicshot]

Some may recall a year-long+ project I did on a previous generation of this site, intended to find and improve the accuracy level of three side-by-side-on-the-sales-rack M-N 91/30's. This involved shimming and handloading in the later stages.

It's hard to determine the OP's desires from a deleted post, but in reality, it's very likely to be an umpteenth rendition of the slew of such request which prompted my project. Thin skin or thick, my responses would be the same.

Most 91/30's were mass prepared and stored sometime after WWII. Most of them suffered from serious cleaning rod wear in the muzzle area, and the generic mass-fix was to counterbore the muzzle down to a distance that reduced the bore diameter to a reasonable size. This was a very fast and uncritical process. The end of many/most bores was a crapshoot, complicated by upwards of 50-80 years of general neglect in long term storage; cosmoline can only protect so much, for so long. Expect much corrosion where a 'recessed crown' should be.

Then there's the ammunition. The steel case/steel jacketed USSR/GI spam can ammo was purely 'cannon fodder'. It goes bang, mostly. Aside from applications like massed musketry, it was probably always substandard; and age has not improved its performance.

If you have a 91/30 that shoots 1 MOA with any ammunition, don't let it out of your sight.

Are there accurate ones? Oh yes. They tend to be battlefield pickups from the Russo-Finnish "Winter War" that were carefully researched and very dutifully rebarreled, restocked, and refurbished as Finnish factory arsenal (later to become SAKO) M-39 Rifles. Finnish ammunition is also special (7.62x53). The bores and bullets are often described as .308 diameter, which is even sometimes true.

There are also some original 91/30's that defy the odds and refuse to suck.

For general purposes, a cosmoline excavated 91/30 and Spam Can military steel case ball ammo will probably deliver accuracy in the 2-5 MOA range, or worse. As a perimeter defense rifle, it's moderately satisfactory out to 100yd.

Oh, and they tend to kick like mules. If you get into the 180gr loads, you need serious recoil protection for extended target practice (i.e. more than ten shots).

In my unrelenting effort to develop a handload, I came up with PPU Brass, Win LRP, Hornady 150gr Interlock "303" caliber bullet, and 48.1gr of IMR-4064 (identical-charge to my Garand load). It's better than the steel case, somewhat; over the past ten years or so, it has harvested several dozen whitetails for my (now former) S-I-L. PPU 150gr Factory SP loads are a reasonably fair compromise.

People have actually tried to blow these rifles up and had real trouble getting anywhere near their goals. Seriously, this thread reeeeally needs a little bit of comic relief...

Mine is a safe queen (Archangel Stock, Bushnell Handgun Scope, Scout Mount, Limbsaver, etc.) these days. I shudder to raise it and fire it.

Greg

Sorry for my comment but Russo/Finnish War was in 1940 and Finnish had MOSINS before as result to be part of Russian Empire and have big arsenal in Helsinki. They newer produced any receivers for that rifles because have so many from Imperial time.

 

[fpgt72]

Very true, the Finn's never did make a receiver....they did about everything else to them however. I want to say up into the early 70's the Finns used them in Olympic games.

The rifle is what it is....and early smokeless design and it has lasted a great deal longer then about any other "first gen" smokeless rifle...perhaps the british lee is in the same group, but it went through a few changes, and you really can't say that first long lee is really the same that lasted into the 60's for some uses.

They are what they are....and really I think a lot of our experience with them is tainted by the examples we have in the US....Not well cared for examples....I would love to see a "factory fresh" example to see what a new gun would be like and how it would shoot.

I enjoy them for what they are.

 

[Guthwine]

Just shim the barrel and action and swap out the trigger for a Finnish M39 trigger. No one but you will ever know the difference.

Is there a guide on where to shim the barrel exactly?

 

[sandwarrior]

Is there a guide on where to shim the barrel exactly?

Yeah, He's called Greg Langelius... ?

 

[Sooter76]

Is there a guide on where to shim the barrel exactly?

Here's the 'easy' button...

http://smith-sights.com/accurizing-the-mosin-nagant-a-year-later.php

You can either order the kit or just follow the guideline on the page. I wish I'd known about this site before I went thru the hassle of cutting soda cans but I might still try out one of the guys front sights. My recommendation would be to get the shim kit (or make your own) and swap the trigger for a Finnish trigger. I still wouldn't expect a 1 MOA gun, but shimming my Mosin took it from about 6 MOA to about 2 MOA.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

When I shimmed mine, I used Foamies Sheet Neoprene foam cut into 1/2" wide strips that were long enough to do one wrap of the barrel. FWIW, the 6mm sheets can be used to fashion Cheek pads.

I wrapped the shims around the barrels at two points, directly under the two barrel bands. This turns the stock into a crutch that helps support the barrel better.

This process is an effort to reproduce the wartime practice of 'corking' the barrel, which used sheet cork to do this same technique. The Smith site deals with is especially well, and is a wealth of excellent advice and components for the M-N.

The other shims, under the action, are a compensation for wood shrinkage, and can restore the stock to its original dimensions. One place where this can be especially helpful is when bolt closure while feeding a round is very rough and difficult. These shims should be made from a firm material that does not compress, otherwise, action screw torque becomes an unmanageable issue.

I did this to improve accuracy, which it did; and it also fixed the hard feeding issue by restoring the interceptor/trigger guard/magazine alignment so it worked properly again.

Greg

My M-N has been idle for far too long. At this point I'm down to one rifle, the rest are now in younger hands within the family. I did an Archangel stock replacement as well as a rather barbaric attempt to clean up the counterbore, but priorities overtook the project, and the rifle still awaits testing to see what, if any, improvement these latter steps have achieved.

I run the Hornady 150gr .311 Interlock in PPU brass, with 50.0gr of IMR-4064, and a CCI 200 Primer. It's a very close duplicate of my Garand load, except for the case and bullet diameter. It's a stiff load which utterly devastates the deer population, and kicks like that proverbial mule. My SIL is the scourge of the woodlots during deer season, and loves that M-N like a Baby Sister. Pay attention to primer flatness, and be prepared to back off the charge if that occurs in a serious manner. His rifle is provided with a 1" thick Limbsaver Slip-On, which improves LOP, and tames some of the kick.

 

[acudaowner]

I love the older guns either just the look the feel and a lot of the history behind them sprinkle on some of that old war movie magic and presto I am hooked . I am trying to learn more so I might make a semi informed purchase if one ever comes by again .

 

[6AYoteHunter]

My 91/30 shoots moa with bayonet fixed, drops to 6 moa without. Funny how some of these old guns behave.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

Nice safety mod you have there! A Mosin M44 was the first rifle I ever bought. At the time I thought it didn't have a safety, mine was very hard to operate.

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

In my not inconsiderable experience, Mosins are more than capable of shooting MOA, so long as the barrels and crowns are in halfway decent condition.

The stock fitment usually is not good, and, therefore, shimming the receiver and pressure padding the barrel are generally called for.

Additionally, a good two-stage trigger and improved sights are usually called for, as well.

Handloads are generally essential for good precision, as well, as most surplus I've found has variable powder charges and bullet weights, even between cartridges of the same lot.

Regards,
Josh

 

[Sooter76]

Hello,

In my not inconsiderable experience, Mosins are more than capable of shooting MOA, so long as the barrels and crowns are in halfway decent condition.

The stock fitment usually is not good, and, therefore, shimming the receiver and pressure padding the barrel are generally called for.

Additionally, a good two-stage trigger and improved sights are usually called for, as well.

Handloads are generally essential for good precision, as well, as most surplus I've found has variable powder charges and bullet weights, even between cartridges of the same lot.

Regards,
Josh

So... Essentially the same thing that can be said of any other milsurp rifle, and with similar corrective measures? ;-p

 

[Fig]

I almost had the same thing typed, and decided not to post it...?
Or off-the-rack hunting rifle for that matter.

 

[Josh Smith]

So... Essentially the same thing that can be said of any other milsurp rifle, and with similar corrective measures? ;-p

I almost had the same thing typed, and decided not to post it...?
Or off-the-rack hunting rifle for that matter.

Hello,

Depends on the rifle, but from what I've seen, the Mosin seems to take less accurizing than other milsurp makes.

The bolt head, for example, is floating, and seems to square up its lugs with the receiver recesses easier than, say, the Mauser 98 design. I've never seen a Mosin that only locks up with one lug, but I've seen a lot of examples of where the 98 action needs truing up to make both lugs contact.

Additionally, the Mosin was a 1:9.5" twist, originally designed for 212grn bullets at around 2100fps. These 212grn rounds, incidentally, were held to 1.2moa at the British factories that made them, prior to Russia building up production.

After the Germans switched to a lighter 8x57 ~150grn bullet in, what, 1905(?) the Russians followed suit in about 1908 with their 152grn round.

The rifling twist was never changed on the Russian Mosin, so these 152grn rounds spun too fast.

This was corrected with the 7n1 sniper round, which, though the bullet retained the same bullet weight, it was steel core and therefore longer than the standard issue of the time, and stabilized better.

The Mosin has its strengths in the accurizing department, over the Mauser 98 design, etc.

When you start getting into accurizing the semi-automatic battle rifles, it (of course) gets a bit more complicated than throwing in a couple shims.

But so far as milsurp bolt rifles are concerned, the Mosin doesn't lag behind many, and has advantages over several.

Regards,
Josh

 

[Unknown]

I try and see firearms as tools, and to not become overly attached to any of them. With that said, one of my firearm sale regrets was a Finnish M39 that just LOVED that cheap ammo that comes in the thin turquoise box with the silver diagonal stripe across it. With iron sights and my old eyes, that rifle would regularly shoot 1.5" at 100 yards...smaller groups were not at all uncommon, but I would not claim regular 1" groups because they were more of an occasional group. I think a great deal of the larger group size was because my eyes just aren't what they used to be.

What is funny is that the Mosin was one of the ugliest rifles I ever owned, and also one of the best shooting. It would shoot as well as my national match Garand. I just wish I hadn't sold/traded it.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

I probably surfed through this thread when it started. I have one of the "Hunting Carbines" since they can't import the Sniper Rifles anymore. I also have a couple hundred rounds of the PPU FMJ Match ammo. $600 for the rifle and scope, $16 for 20 rounds. Lapua loose brass was $1 a case. I planned on making .311 175 SMK rounds but brass wasn't available. Now I just need range time. Of course, that has been my excise for a couple years now.

I have a 91/30 that does 3-6 inch groups, and a Finnish hex receiver that consistently hits soda cans at 200 yards with a scope. They need to go to the range also.

 

[fpgt72]

I have always said that all the rifles are on par with each other....even rifles that "we" tend to look down upon....Japan, Soviet, Italy....All are in the same ballpark.

 

[Sooter76]

Hello,

Depends on the rifle, but from what I've seen, the Mosin seems to take less accurizing than other milsurp makes.

The bolt head, for example, is floating, and seems to square up its lugs with the receiver recesses easier than, say, the Mauser 98 design. I've never seen a Mosin that only locks up with one lug, but I've seen a lot of examples of where the 98 action needs truing up to make both lugs contact.

Additionally, the Mosin was a 1:9.5" twist, originally designed for 212grn bullets at around 2100fps. These 212grn rounds, incidentally, were held to 1.2moa at the British factories that made them, prior to Russia building up production.

After the Germans switched to a lighter 8x57 ~150grn bullet in, what, 1905(?) the Russians followed suit in about 1908 with their 152grn round.

The rifling twist was never changed on the Russian Mosin, so these 152grn rounds spun too fast.

This was corrected with the 7n1 sniper round, which, though the bullet retained the same bullet weight, it was steel core and therefore longer than the standard issue of the time, and stabilized better.

The Mosin has its strengths in the accurizing department, over the Mauser 98 design, etc.

When you start getting into accurizing the semi-automatic battle rifles, it (of course) gets a bit more complicated than throwing in a couple shims.

But so far as milsurp bolt rifles are concerned, the Mosin doesn't lag behind many, and has advantages over several.

Regards,
Josh

You may have misconstrued my comment. It was a joke, nothing more... You stated that the Mosin is capable of 1 MOA if the barrel and crown were good, the stock was fitted correctly, the action shimmed and the barrel pressure padded, the trigger and sights replaced, and a good handload found. So essentially the same thing you'd do to wring the most accuracy out of any milsurp rifle. I just found it amusing.

I'm not the biggest fan of Mosin's (with an exception for the Finn M39), and I would still take my Lee Enfield's, Swiss rifles, or Springfield 1903's over a Russian Mosin, but I freely admit that after a little work on mine, they do have far more potential than they get credit for.

 

[Sooter76]

I have always said that all the rifles are on par with each other....even rifles that "we" tend to look down upon....Japan, Soviet, Italy....All are in the same ballpark.

Who looks down on Japanese rifles? I've always heard the Arisaka rifle was one of the best Mauser derivatives available, and in some ways better.

 

[steve123]

I was that guy who at first look, absolutely despised Mosin's. Let's face it, the rifle is an old design and not good for the eyes either.

So a deal came up and a need for a old military rifle, after all, the targets were big and we were shooting for big money - quarters.

Big mistake using my friends old military ammo, 4-5" at 100Y, I was kinda sad I bought the 91/30 Mosin at this juncture!

Then tried some PPU, that ammo shot 2.5" at 100Y, I was much relieved, I'll tell yuh!

The day came years later that I was bored and bought dies, brass, and 174gr SMK. I can't see the factory sights well with my old eyes but it's safe to say with no load development that I'm at about 1.5 moa. That's doing nothing to any part of the rifle to tune it.

Yesterday at a friends place it was easy to hit, the hard to see, because the paint is all shot up, 200M chicken, and that was by aiming low one chicken and left one chicken, lol.

I will say the bolt is smooth and it never malfunctions, which gives my rifle a thumbs up when all the positive attributes are combined.

There is some charm to the old Mosin, not much but hey if I can hit something with crappy eyes, crappy sights, crappy trigger, etc, I'M GOOD!

 

[sandwarrior]

I was that guy who at first look, absolutely despised Mosin's. Let's face it, the rifle is an old design and not good for the eyes either.

So a deal came up and a need for a old military rifle, after all, the targets were big and we were shooting for big money - quarters.

Big mistake using my friends old military ammo, 4-5" at 100Y, I was kinda sad I bought the 91/30 Mosin at this juncture!

Then tried some PPU, that ammo shot 2.5" at 100Y, I was much relieved, I'll tell yuh!

The day came years later that I was bored and bought dies, brass, and 174gr SMK. I can't see the factory sights well with my old eyes but it's safe to say with no load development that I'm at about 1.5 moa. That's doing nothing to any part of the rifle to tune it.

Yesterday at a friends place it was easy to hit, the hard to see, because the paint is all shot up, 200M chicken, and that was by aiming low one chicken and left one chicken, lol.

I will say the bolt is smooth and it never malfunctions, which gives my rifle a thumbs up when all the positive attributes are combined.

There is some charm to the old Mosin, not much but hey if I can hit something with crappy eyes, crappy sights, crappy trigger, etc, I'M GOOD!

Like you I had no interest in getting one of "these old POS's". Then when I watched Mausers go up, along with every other milsurp that you could buy for less than $100, and I suddenly realised I better get one before they jump through the roof.

My first one was an Izzy and it shot okay~ish. But not bad.... Then I watched the prices start jumping and I got hold of a Tula in nice condition. That's when I went whole hog and started reloading for it. The best I ever got out of it was just over moa. But, I put a lot of those groups together. I had 26lbs. of AA4350 that I got for $13 bucks a pound. I think I went through at least five pounds in that rifle.

Unfortunately, I had to cut the herd down (90+ guns) and also to make money. I sold each rifle for twice what I paid for it.

 

[VSP968]

As usual, I’m late to the party.

I saw a “7N1” ammunition reference and remembered I had this stuff left over from the mid 90s when I went through a COMBLOC rifle phase, that culminated in the purchase of a California Armory Tiger that is now long gone.

 

[fpgt72]

Who looks down on Japanese rifles? I've always heard the Arisaka rifle was one of the best Mauser derivatives available, and in some ways better.

Now....there was a time not long ago that unless it was American, German, then British it was junk. You also get some internet experts out there with gun channels, some pretty popular that will poo poo a given item and have no clue what they talk about....or just get a bad example.

Most of this stuff has been through at least one war,,,,,one of my 98k's was in Israel......they have been around the block a few times, and how they got taken care of on those trips has a lot to do with how they are when we get them.

There are some real good guns left out there, but the word is slowly getting out on them.....French MAS 36 is in a great many peoples view THE BEST bolt gun issued to any army. Think about that, it was the last one made, they looked at all of them, designed a "new" cartridge around it, and it is a claw hammer gun.....yes some of the French'ness of it is pretty "goofy" to us, but the gun itself viewed on its own as a service rifle, great design, few parts, hard for the idiot conscript to screw up.....it is a very very good design made to shoot enemy soldiers.
These rifles are starting to work their way up as people learn more about them.....but still a good buy.

I also have a real soft spot for Carcano....it is not the strongest action out there by any reach, but it is a good serviceable rifle that is let down by the only commercially available ammo for it. Roll your own with the correct profile bullets and the guns do come to life. Carcano never had a spitzer bullet.

Japanese rifles are strong, and work very well.....and I do agree it is one of the best flavors out there. It had issues a while ago with ammo issues, many of the 7.7's got turned into 3006 rifles with mixed results, and the 6.5 rifles had nothing to really feed them.

I find it really interesting on how "we" are looking at 6.5 as the next great thing, when people with rifles we looked down upon and switched over had them long before 6.5 became trendy.

 

[Josh Smith]

You may have misconstrued my comment. It was a joke, nothing more... You stated that the Mosin is capable of 1 MOA if the barrel and crown were good, the stock was fitted correctly, the action shimmed and the barrel pressure padded, the trigger and sights replaced, and a good handload found. So essentially the same thing you'd do to wring the most accuracy out of any milsurp rifle. I just found it amusing.

I'm not the biggest fan of Mosin's (with an exception for the Finn M39), and I would still take my Lee Enfield's, Swiss rifles, or Springfield 1903's over a Russian Mosin, but I freely admit that after a little work on mine, they do have far more potential than they get credit for.

I quite possibly jumped to conclusions.

From a purely objective standpoint, the Mosin is a reliable, potentially precise rifle.

When I got into them, I heard from Mosin maniacs how terrible Mosins were. That set me documenting easy improvements to the Mosin, and eventually led to my business.

I simply don't like anything misrepresented, whether it be a certain type of rifle, or conservatives, or liberals, etc. It just leads to loss all around.

Regards,
Josh

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Interesting about how one's 91/30 shoots better with the bayonet mounted than without it. After a lot of reading I came across the following tidbit. Russian infantry doctrine was that the 91/30 was to have the bayonet mounted at all times.

About the only time this was ignored was when infantry as being transported in close confinement, like in the back of a truck. I heard that in some cases the bayonet was taken off and placed on the muzzle backward, but I never tried that and it may not even be possible.

Until I read the tidbit, it had seemed to me that just about every Russian long arms I ever shot would all shoot to the left, and this really puzzled me, until I read that tidbit. When/before 91/30's were issued, one unit member, with known excellent marksmanship skill, would test fire each rifle for grading purposes.

IMHO, that shooter must have had oaken shoulders.

Greg

 

[pacomdiver]

Greg,
the infantry rifles were sighted in with bayonets fixed, and alot of present day shooters mount the bayonet on backwards, its not the exact same barrel harmonics, but its closer than not having it on, except of course the ones made into actual snipers, they were sighted in without a bayonet. ive done some testing on some of mine including M91s and they definitely shoot better when you have a bayonet on

 

[sandwarrior]

Greg,
the infantry rifles were sighted in with bayonets fixed, and alot of present day shooters mount the bayonet on backwards, its not the exact same barrel harmonics, but its closer than not having it on, except of course the ones made into actual snipers, they were sighted in without a bayonet. ive done some testing on some of mine including M91s and they definitely shoot better when you have a bayonet on

I’ll be darned! I had two that shot pretty well without a bayonet attached.

Do you wonder that by the last M91’s coming over here, there had been a change in how they shimmed them?

I never shot mine with a bayonet, so I do not know.

 

[kortik]

I’ll be darned! I had two that shot pretty well without a bayonet attached.

Do you wonder that by the last M91’s coming over here, there had been a change in how they shimmed them?

I never shot mine with a bayonet, so I do not know.

Just a personal observation - having or not having a baynet attached is irrelevant. If MN is scoped, you know what to do - just use scope turrets to adjust. Otherwise, just move the front sight as needed.

I have 5 MNs, 3 scoped and 2 with iron sights. I love them dearly, have done a lot of mods to them. After 25 years of messing around with Finish, Russian and Polish MN rifles and carbines, my own conclusion is that MN is a very effective firearm, but it does not belong to precision rifle category. It does hit and kill easily whatever is a target at 1-300 yards, particularly with Barnaul 203 gr. SP. It is made from better quality steel than my other love - SMLE #4, and it is very easy to "improve". MN is simply a practical rifle with very reliable magazine for rimmed cartridges. Otherwise, MN design is outdated and may be a relatively expensive challenge to make an equal to some of the modern .30 cal rifles.

 

[Phatcow]

(insert thick Soviet accent) "You see Ivan, Mosin holds 24 hour of angle for shoot capitalist pig all day and night!"

Just trolling! Don't light me ablaze haha I love shooting my Mosins ?

 

[crackerbrown]

Two years ago.

 

[Guthwine]

I finally got around to do the bedding of my Mosin and shimmed the barrel at the front with some cork. (And in the process remade the outher finish of the stock) Today I got to try it on 200m and I think it and I will get there. (Rings are 10cm/20cm/... - Black Circle is 60cm)

Biggest problem for me was to find and consistantly hold my aimpoint due to a rather poor rest, so I am the biggest variable in those groups. But still for an 86 year old rifle, with iron sights, trash ammo, and me behind it, it is not bad and I would say. With a better rest and more practice the group will shrink significantly, I think.

 

[Justinx86]

Hey guys, I'm new to the site, ran through a google search looking at moa groupings with a Mosin and came across this. Not sure if it's worth reviving this thread, but just thought I'd say hello to yall, and also share what I did at the range the other day at 100 yds with my 91/30. It's modded a little bit, but I seemed to get under 2 inch 5 shot groups. Lots of shooter error here, not too much experience with range shooting, just now really getting into it, but I felt like it performs well. Mine is a 1939 tula build and from what I read, it's the last year that they were really well made. Anyways, here is the target, and a pic of the rifle. Pay no attention to the writing, you can kinda see for yourself. I shot six 5 shot groups and one 4 shot group I believe. The last group was me adjusting my hold on the rifle and tweeking my windage and I hit 5 shots in the one inch mark. Could have done better on the previous 2 groups

 

[1500varmint]

LOL!!

Well-played...

 

[acudaowner]

not that I could do it , but If you can shoot it can be done . you just have to learn practice and have the desire to do I guess the need helps , hunger and survival are strong motivators .
he did and if he could you can too.
Vasily Zaitsev
During the Battle of Stalingrad, talented Russians snipers used the Mosin-Nagant PU version to wreak plenty of havoc against their Nazi adversaries. One of those talented sharpshooters was none other than the Soviet hero himself, Vasily Zaytsev.
and her
Roza Georgiyevna Shanina was a Soviet sniper during World War II who was credited with fifty-nine confirmed kills, including twelve soldiers during the Battle of Vilnius. Shanina volunteered for the military after the death of her brother in 1941 and chose to be a marksman on the front line. Wikipedia
and him
Simo "Simuna" Häyhä, was a Finnish military sniper. He is believed to have killed over 500 men during the 1939–40 Winter War, the highest number of sniper kills in any major war. He used a Finnish-produced M/28-30 rifle, a variant of the Mosin–Nagant rifle, and a Suomi KP/-31 submachine gun. Wikipedia

and though he did not have the chance to see one I am pretty sure he could considering how well he shot with just a smooth bore black powder rifle
and the song just cause I liked it .

you don't kneed fancy expensive guns and over priced equipment to shoot well . any hammer is still just a hammer but in the right hands it can build marvels

 

[Fig]

Then bring one to a match and kick all our asses. What the hell do we know anyway?

 

[Guthwine]

I finally got my good old mosin back from the gunsmith. So the replica PU is mounted and the groups my gunsmith shot look promising. (Its just a 3 shot group though - Sellier&Bellot FMJ 180gr) I will keep you updated about what my results are.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Well, age, health, and some challenging temperatures (hot and cold) here in AZ, not forgetting the CV-19; the Mosin Project is still languishing on hold. This means the Muzzle recounterbore remains untested. I also just received a bunch of Speer 308 165gr Grand Slams which I had ordered by mistake, intending to get 150's. They are now slated for the 30-06 hunting rifle, and may also find a home in some PPU 7.62x54r brass.

I'd like to expand on the method I've found for making a successful Scout mount for the M/N. To recount and summarize, I've tried just about every commercial scout mount for the M/N which was available back when my project was active. They, to a mount, never liked me, and the sentiment was returned. The problem; they always worked loose. The M/N's recoil is such that they just couldn't stand in with any sense I could call reliable. Honestly, scoping the M/N with a Scout mount is easily as difficult as the M14/M1a has been in the past. In both case, the successful approach was to abandon the original sight mount approach and get closer to the barrel.

For the M/N, the answer is to remove the entire rear sight mount. Getting the two pins out resembles an outrage. CRC-56, time (up to weeks) soaking, and hammer/punch assaults of a prodigious nature; and the sight finally condescends to depart; tougher to evict than a welfare princess. What remains is a pair of grooves running parallel to the bore, nearly identical to the older 22lr and air rifle mounting interfaces. Air guns also generate atypical recoil, pounding their scopes into submission; so Air Rifle rings have been adapted to become about as impregnable as Fort Knox. They also fit the M/N grooves pretty danged well. Mount them with extreme prejudice, and they'll do the job quite well.

That's right; no base. The rings mount directly to the barrel; heights will need to be tried out. I did not invent this approach, and cannot recall who did; but they were genius.

Then; there's the scope. The scope needs track back to the original "shoots left, needs the bayonet" issue. The Mosin sights do not offer an easily adjustable way to input windage to allow correcting this issue; but a scope does. The Scout scopes I've tried (low budget, remember...?) did not have good glass, and lacked rifle type magnification ranges.

I mounted the Bushnell Trophy scope, now discontinued. Better glass, reliable adjustments; it was a huge departure from the cheaper scopes I had tried. Better scopes, that even offer higher magnifications, now exist.

A rifle that's hard to aim is hard to shoot well. Maybe this stuff above can help.

Greg

 

[Guthwine]

Todays result, 20 rounds on 200m.

The 8s are my fault but I am slowly getting there.

 

[Guthwine]

Had the opportunity to shoot 500 meter for the first time with my Mosin. I made the wrong wind call and 4 shots went completely off the target but over all I am very happy with the result. The repro 3.5x optic works suprisingly well but is pretty much at an end at 500. (at least with my eyes) Everything beyond that needs quite some work to walk it in, I think.
With some work on my form, a more stable rest and also better ammo I think there is alot of room for better groups.

 

[cghorr01]

I have a pair of Tula Hex receiver M-N that I shoot regularly. Totally stock, great shooting guns on irons out to the 100 yards at the range I usually go to. I'm not typically punching paper with them, more like whatever happens to be laying around there that day, but certainly more than accurate enough even with surplus military ammo to hit whatever I point them at. Both un-counterbored excellent condition examples. I suspect unissued or if so extremely limited use as they're both like new. Don't appear to ever have been reworked. First bolt guns I ever bought. I'll never mod or scope them as they're a pleasure to shoot exactly as is.

 

[Rookie]

So this thread got me interested in accurizing and otherwise improving an M44 I have. Truthfully I wanted somehow improve the looks first. Here it is disassembled.

So I removed the orange laquer, sanded, and linseed oiled it but the wood was too hard to absorb the oil and was still butt ugly.

So I painted it with rattle can cammo colors. I think it turned out ok.

So a few months ago I started shooting it more and thought about how I could make it shoot better. I bought the accurizing kit from Smith including cork and brass shims and trigger spring. That helped exactly NOT AT ALL. Still shot 5-6moa.

Next step was to replace the trigger which was the worst I've ever felt. So I installed a Timney with safety lever. Pretty much had to butcher the stock to make room but dang thats a nice trigger!

The next step was adding a scout scope. Tried Leuppy but eye relief was too short so I went with the Vortex 2-7. At $150 I had zero expectation of tracking or repeatability but we will see. Here it is at the range.

Unfortunately it still shot like crap with spam can garbage ammo.

So I ordered dies and 195gr bullets. Had some H4350 on hand and worked up a load but still 2.5 to 3 moa was best it would do. So tried 150gr Hornady and Varget. I know you guys are thinking, "Why waste unicorn tears on a Mosin?"

Anyway, with 44.7gr of Varget and 150 Hornady soft Point this little M44 shoots pretty dang good. 1 to 1.5in groups is typical. Man what a difference good ammo made!

I'm very pleased. Next weekend I'll hang some steel at distance and see if the Vortex can keep up.