Rifle Scopes Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

[THLR]

This video will make some of you cringe, maybe even bring dust to the eyes. Let me assure you there IS an overall plan to the madness and the turrets will shortly be re-surfaced.

This video shows the internals of the S&B MTC/LT turret and some abuse to it.

Film: Modifying a S&B PMII
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Please don't do this at home as I've probably cancelled every warranty available to man. Drilling holes for the set screws was a huge mistake as it exposes an O-ring.

My gripe with the turrets are this:
The MTC (more tactile clicks) function gets in the way for fast, accurate corrections. Easiest way to cancel it was to twist one of the knobs.
The LT (Locking Turret) function isn't a problem per se allthough I have no practical use for it. The "lifting ring" is problematic though. It <span style="text-decoration: underline">can</span> interfere with the shooter/scope interface causing slippage if the hand doesn't grip the turret a certain way. This is to me unacceptable ergonomics, a scope like this shouldn't be vulnerable to minor user errors. So the "lifting ring" <span style="color: #FF0000">HAD</span> to go.

Other than the turrets, I've used the S&B PMII a bit now and prefer it over the 5-25x56 due to the compact size.
Film: Shooting Steyr SSG08 338LM w S&B 3-20x50 ELR

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It is an ok scope, but I would like to see it offered with more turret options. Here's a film review I did of the scope
Film: Review of S&B PMII 3-20x50

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[CSTactical]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

TAG

I love the 3-20x.

Mike CST

 

[slowkota]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3657463#Post3657463

How'd you chip your tooth?

 

[THLR]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

Thanks CS, really like your video reviews.
Slowkota. Easy. Borrowed rifle and way too short LOP. Was kissing the buttstock hinge way too often. Interesting comments in that thread; no trigger-jerking, I just keep my finger off the trigger until the shot, and it goes on/off depending on how good my sight picture is. That reflex looks funny/ stupid for sure but it works .

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

Rest assured the warranty is kaput.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

Yup you just voided your warranty completely. Anyone reading this DO NOT DO THIS!

For anyone else, if you wanted this done and still stay under warranty then contact the S&B service center. They can do it.

 

[THLR]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yup you just voided your warranty completely. Anyone reading this DO NOT DO THIS!

For anyone else, if you wanted this done and still stay under warranty then contact the S&B service center. They can do it. </div></div>

A good thing can't be said often enough. Can S&B do this job? Never got a reply myself. Would be nice if they would offer more turret options for this scope.

Aware but not worried about the warranty issue. Apart from the setscrew holes the modification is nothing more than a scratch to the scope body. No more harmful than painting it.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks CS, really like your video reviews.
Slowkota. Easy. Borrowed rifle and way too short LOP. Was kissing the buttstock hinge way too often. Interesting comments in that thread; no trigger-jerking, I just keep my finger off the trigger until the shot, and it goes on/off depending on how good my sight picture is. That reflex looks funny/ stupid for sure but it works . </div></div>

Sure...right...you MEANT to do that...

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

Saw a post S&B will remove MTC for $75 and I assume having them do it will maintain your warranty.

Just got a MTC 5-25X56 last week. I now realize why the feature can be disliked. I'll be shooting on a mat, KD range, with all the time I decide to give myself, at paper so it will be manageable.

The "klunks" really do "klunk". Does it loosen up over time?

 

[JByrd]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

i wish they had the option of lightening the detent, "lighter spring,less angle in detent notch" whatever. im sure it could be done easily. i REALLY like the feature just needs toned down about to about half as much force and it would be perfect. purdy pleease jerry pass the word along

 

[THLR]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Sure...right...you MEANT to do that... </div></div>

The proof is in the pudding. There's 50 something film there and it's fairly easy to see I have the finger on/off also during killing shots. If that was what you were refering to? Not sure what you're gunning for.
The shot in question (tooth shot) broke too early, no doubt.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Sure...right...you MEANT to do that... </div></div>

The proof is in the pudding. There's 50 something film there and it's fairly easy to see I have the finger on/off also during killing shots. If that was what you were refering to? The shot in question broke too early. </div></div>

Sell it elsewhere chief... just own the fact that you fucked up that shot. Shots do not "break too early" shooters do...

 

[THLR]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

No I don't think the "clunk" will be less with time as the MTC ring is that deeply cut and it is unlikely to add material with time. A more shallow cut would possibly make for a better MTC?

 

[Rob01]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yup you just voided your warranty completely. Anyone reading this DO NOT DO THIS!

For anyone else, if you wanted this done and still stay under warranty then contact the S&B service center. They can do it. </div></div>

A good thing can't be said often enough. Can S&B do this job? Never got a reply myself. Would be nice if they would offer more turret options for this scope.

Aware but not worried about the warranty issue. Apart from the setscrew holes the modification is nothing more than a scratch to the scope body. No more harmful than painting it.</div></div>

Did you call the service center at (800)468-3450?

Or try and get ahold of Jerry R here on the Hide as he works at the Service Center. He is the one who posted about S&B doing this for customers and i believe the $75 price posted is what they run.

Your scope and you can do what you want to to it but <span style="font-weight: bold">I would advise anyone reading not to do this themselves</span>. Send it in and get it done right and keep your warranty intact.

 

[THLR]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> just own the fact that you fucked up that shot. Shots do not "break too early" shooters do... </div></div>

Sorry, I believe we are speaking past each other and I am saying exactly what you are requesting?

<span style="font-style: italic">The shot in question (tooth shot) broke too early, no doubt</span>

The tooth chipped because the recoil came before the buttstock was snug in the shoulder. The recoil came at that time because the shot broke to early. The shot broke to early because I as a shooter pulled the trigger.

S0... The rifle does what I as a shooter tells it to. If the shot breaks early (not good) I have made a mistake as it is in my control, the rifle being an inert tool.

 

[THLR]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did you call the service center at (800)468-3450?
</div></div>

No but thanks for the tip Rob. I didn't bother calling after receiving no reply from the emails. First Germany office then US. I tried to get a comment on the turrets/ options etc for a magazine article. No reply, so I just figured the Scandinavian market is too small to be of interest to S&B (it'll only be about 500(?) units here until it is saturated)

Hopefully this thread will be a healthy turret discussion - improvements to the MTC have already been uttered. Should be an easy fix.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> just own the fact that you fucked up that shot. Shots do not "break too early" shooters do... </div></div>

Sorry, I believe we are speaking past each other and I am saying exactly what you are requesting?

<span style="font-style: italic">The shot in question (tooth shot) broke too early, no doubt</span>

The tooth chipped because the recoil came before the buttstock was snug in the shoulder. The recoil came at that time because the shot broke to early. The shot broke to early because I as a shooter pulled the trigger.

S0... The rifle does what I as a shooter tells it to. If the shot breaks early (not good) I have made a mistake as it is in my control, the rifle being an inert tool.
</div></div>

Well done sir. Way to own it.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

When that scope goes up in the WTS forum if there are ring marks I dont think they will be an issue.

As mentioned sir - your scope do as you please. I salute you in your quest for personal perfection.

Thank you for posting this as now I least know what is under the turrets and how the clicks work.

I dont think it will matter to anyone that does similar but it has been mentioned (by Jerry R) that turning the MTC detent 90 degress will eventually destroy the MTC ring. $75 seems plenty cheap enough to have S&B do this and maintain the warranty.

 

[THLR]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

The turrets resurfaced. In my opinion, they are far more userfriendly than the original

 

[toddconley]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

Where did those yardage labels Come from on those turrets?

 

[THLR]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

Me. Used the same "abuse-film" as for vehicles and laminated it. I belive it can take more abuse than the original surface?

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toddconley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where did those yardage labels Come from on those turrets? </div></div>

Here's a lot better setup.....

http://taskforce4.com/dialandshoot.html

 

[Jeeprider]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

Wow, did you ever just think about saving your time and money and getting yourself the PMII 5-25 with the standard Double Turn turrets (yellow window). Anyone who follows this at home "smithing" is pretty much in my opinion destroying the scope. I myself am not a fan of the S&B MTC turrets and my remedy - stick to the 5-25 with standard turrets, pretty simple.

 

[goosecatcher]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

It's his scope let him be. If he came on here complaining how S&B won't warranty it then you can give it to him, but until then, let him do what he wants.

THLR, my mouth dropped a little when you were making the modifications. I hope you are happy with it and hope it serves you well.

 

[ChrisF]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets


S&B are not forgetting the European market completely , as I see your scope has CW knobs , and IF they where solely US baised they would only offer CCW knobs ( as thats what the US wants ) .

BUT agree , S&B should make the 3-20x available with std DT turrets just like the 3-12x & 5-25x , yellow windows .

Later Chris

 

[lazy21]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

Does Schmidt offer any other mods? I was thinking of this

 

[Jeeprider]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: goosecatcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's his scope let him be. If he came on here complaining how S&B won't warranty it then you can give it to him, but until then, let him do what he wants.

THLR, my mouth dropped a little when you were making the modifications. I hope you are happy with it and hope it serves you well.

</div></div>

I don't think anyone cares what someone does to their own property, but posting it on the World Wide Web as a pretty much - "Hey check out my mod DIY, I even made a step by step video" It's going to draw some attention and possibly have a few unsuspecting people try it themselves, not good.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeeprider</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: goosecatcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's his scope let him be. If he came on here complaining how S&B won't warranty it then you can give it to him, but until then, let him do what he wants.

THLR, my mouth dropped a little when you were making the modifications. I hope you are happy with it and hope it serves you well.

</div></div>

I don't think anyone cares what someone does to their own property, but posting it on the World Wide Web as a pretty much - "Hey check out my mod DIY, I even made a step by step video" It's going to draw some attention and possibly have a few unsuspecting people try it themselves, not good.

</div></div>

Exactly why I posted in this thread. I don't care if he take his lenses out to steam clean them. I just wanted to warn anyone watching this thread that if you do what he did you are voiding your warranty and you should do it at your own risk. If you want it done get it done by the S&B Service Center.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

OK, his scope to do with what he wants. But with a Dremal Tool?

OFG

 

[jerseymike]

Re: Modifying S&B PMII MTC/LT turrets

10 minutes of my life ill never get back.