Money Order Risk

[treillw]

I'm new to purchasing things over the internet. Is there any risk associated with sending somebody a money order before the item is shipped? What is the likelihood of being able to get your money back if something goes awry?

Are there any hide rules for sales? I heard there were some, but I am unable to find them.

Thank you.

 

[NBot]

VERIFICATION....


Verify the hell out of people. Specially with Money Orders. Follow the same rules as making internet purchases.

 

[308Gunner]

I would look at the seller and if he has been on the hide for awhile and is on the GTG list you will be fine if you will give the user name of the seller you can find out pretty quick

 

[FALex]

Generally, money orders suck to get your actual money back, if, for instance, it gets lost in the mail. . They can take a good 60-90 days, minimum, to see your money back.

If you're wanting more control, I would ask the seller if they would be okay with accepting a personal check with the caveat that you would be fine with giving them 5-7 business days to allow the check to clear their account before they ship the product.

You can also sign up with one of the online wire services, such as Venmo, Zelle or Paypal (PP is anti-gun). Most of these services offer payment protection for a nominal fee.

Lastly, you can also send a Cashier's Check, which may cost about 6.00-10.00, but they are purchased with guaranteed funds (cash), and the seller can actually verify it's issuance. If it gets lost, you can get a stop payment on it and go through the process to get your money back. Doesn't take long at all.

 

[treillw]

VERIFICATION....


Verify the hell out of people. Specially with Money Orders. Follow the same rules as making internet purchases.

How do you go about this verification process?

 

[HK_fanatic]

Ask for their ID next to the weapon. Phone number. Money orders are nice if you can be without that money for sometime because from what I hear fraud using a money order is taken very seriously by the postal inspector who will go after them

 

[treillw]

Ask for their ID next to the weapon. Phone number. Money orders are nice if you can be without that money for sometime because from what I hear fraud using a money order is taken very seriously by the postal inspector who will go after them

So you can get it back by going through the postal inspector, but it will take awhile? I'm alright with that, as long as I can get it back.

 

[HK_fanatic]

I don’t know for sure. So I’ve been told. All secondary info. Maybe someone on here can verify if they had to unfortunately go through that

 

[SlimBlundt]

There is inherent risk associated with online horse trading, but I’ve only been burned once in a several hundred transactions over several years. Some sites similar to this one have a user rating system, much like eBay, where positive or negative feedback can be left. On sites like the hide, there are other ways that can clue you into the legitimacy of a seller. However, I’m not going to mention them all here because even though it may educate you, it might educate the scammers as well.

Something I’ll do is review the seller’s site history such as their join date and what else they’ve been buying/selling on this site. Typically, if someone else got burned by this user, the user won’t stick around and the aggrieved party will make a scene so other community members are quickly aware of a scam.

When I buy something from someone who hasn’t been here long and hasn’t posted much (kind of like me), I make it a point to go back and confirm in their original listing that the item was received and as described, adding a little credibility for that seller for future transactions.

 

[338LM_Sniper]

Use a US Post Office Money Order = Postal Police.

Under $100 dollars = Misdemeanor
Over $100 dollars = Felony

 

[hjAICS300]

Like other said, you gotta verify and verify. What I usually do, I would see how long that member is on here. How active, any other feedback etc..
I did quite a few transaction here and there on this site but sometimes either I forget to leave a feedback or other member forgot to leave 1 for me. No big deal. As long as the account / member seems active, it should be fine. I haven't met any XXXhole on Hides at all. Maybe I am lucky or something but everyone I talked to, or did a transaction on here, they're all super nice people.

 

[chpprguy]

DO NOT USE VENMO

I learned this personally,the hard way with vehicle parts. It is for sending people $,but not for item purchases. If you read the fine print,PayPal (who owns/runs Venmo ) will do NOTHING.

 

[trophyhunter]

Biggest and best advice I can give is ask for other sellers or buyers. “Can you give me the name of a few past buyers?”

Contact those people, I’ve contacted a few and never had an issue from them or the seller. Don’t be afraid to ask around, if you find an old post, PM the person that bought said item and ask how the transaction was.

 

[FALex]

I see this has now turned from payment protection to "how to verify" the authenticity of a seller and their product(s). I developed the following method while trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff on the infamous armslist.com (personally, I'm still not a big fan. It is filled with many scammers, hence why I developed the following protocol). Here goes:

Ask the seller to bring XYZ firearm or accessory to any gun store in their area, and they inform you of which one it is. They are to go into the store and inform the manager or supervisor of the fact that they are trying to sell XYZ to you (buyer). They need to bring that product into the store and show it to them. Seller needs to inform them that you are going to be calling them at any minute to speak with them about the product and it's legitimacy. You then call the gun store and speak to that person. That third party (the gun store) will be able to at least verify the product is real. If you want to take this even further, ask the seller to simply have that gun store ship you the item and that you would obviously pay for that added expense. I know this sounds like a hassle, but if you're truly wanting that product, but are having concerns, it's about the most protected way to go about purchasing it.

If a seller is not a scamming piece of shit, they should understand, especially when using armslist. To be quite honest, I've had several scammers on armslist and gunsamerica. I have experienced nothing but great transactions on gunbroker. Sites that allow feedback are much more user-friendly.

I even fucked with one scammer for three days straight on a SCAR 17 from gunsamerica. I knew it was a scam, but I would ask him to take pics of the rifle with a fork and a spoon near the muzzle of the rifle. This dude would then send me a picture of a SCAR 17 with what appeared to be an MS Painted fork and spoon near the muzzle. I had so much fun with this guy, I ended up telling him to forget shipping the rifle, I would just come to Florida and would pick it up myself. That's when he stopped responding to me.

ETA - I thought it was obvious, but wanted to add the fact that I have had nothing but perfect transactions on the Hide.

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

Before I send anything they must either call or text me from a phone number.

I ask for pictures and often do a Google image search to see if those pictures are taken from somewhere else.

If you pay with a postal money orders it can be very hard to get your money back if the seller doesn’t send anything. On a different board we are dealing with a guy who duped four others into buying the same high end item. I was almost had as well but I backed out when it became too good of a deal. They have counted the post office, local law enforcement as well as the seller’s law enforcement. All of them have wrote it off because no one wants to do anything.

Good luck, things are not what they used to be.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Ask for their ID next to the weapon. Phone number. Money orders are nice if you can be without that money for sometime because from what I hear fraud using a money order is taken very seriously by the postal inspector who will go after them

I'd tell any one that asked for a picture of my ID for an online transaction to go pound sand.

Ask the seller to bring XYZ firearm or accessory to any gun store in their area, and they inform you of which one it is. They are to go into the store and inform the manager or supervisor of the fact that they are trying to sell XYZ to you (buyer). They need to bring that product into the store and show it to them. Seller needs to inform them that you are going to be calling them at any minute to speak with them about the product and it's legitimacy. You then call the gun store and speak to that person. That third party (the gun store) will be able to at least verify the product is real. If you want to take this even further, ask the seller to simply have that gun store ship you the item and that you would obviously pay for that added expense. I know this sounds like a hassle, but if you're truly wanting that product, but are having concerns, it's about the most protected way to go about purchasing it.

Maybe if the guy was desperate to sell he'd consider it. I'd just say screw it, easier to put it up on consignment sale at that same store and not bother with the hassle, then you can call the store and buy it for what I was wanting + their consignment markup.

Then again I have a built in distrust for buyers from long years of mail order selling as a business.

 

[antithesis]

Before I send anything they must either call or text me from a phone number.

Lets see, which number do I want to use today?

 

[jetmd]

My process which has worked flawless for me:

Obtain a certified bank check which has the sellers name and address printed on it.

Send check via certified mail return receipt.

If they sign for the check which gives you a receipt, they cash the check and do not send you
your merchandise this is now Federal Mail Fraud.

Yes it may take awhile to get your money back but mail fraud is given higher priority than many
other crimes (not my choice) just the facts of life.

I refuse to do money order, paypal or venmo!

 

[NB4Z]

Use a US Post Office Money Order = Postal Police.

Under $100 dollars = Misdemeanor
Over $100 dollars = Felony

A lot of us here don't trust the system and thats the problem. weeding out bad sellers by reporting them is the best route. i send a Money Order of $800 to a guy who stop communicating after he received payment, i quickly reported the whole thing to his local postal inspector, he did time for it, it went on his permanent record and he refunded my Money. i've had lot of amazing experience with guys here too.

 

[mosin46]

my experience has been that usps mo are no prob. that is all i will send or take. i have had 1 problem in 10 years. got my $ back minus $10 and it took awhile. i send any amount over $200 priority mail so at least i know it was delivered. jeymd's method is perfect for a buyer but slow. bank checks,even certified are routinely faked,i am told and can bounce weeks after clearing. so,not sure about that process for a seller. as far as usps goes,i think it matters about the personel involved. i live in a small town,do alot of po biz and have gotten vg service there. if i lived in a bigger town,i think things might be different at po. i have been fortunate in only dealing with straight shooters here and on gun boards. had a buddy that got scammed on a gew 43. after 3 years and much hassle,he will eventually get his $ back and see the perp do time. what someone said above is true. most LEO outfits don't care about any of this. he got lucky and a local detective got interested in his case and pursued it aggressily out of state.

 

[mosin46]

addendum: i don't understand why so many shooters/2A guys here use peepee and even insist on it. they have always been rabidly anti gun. also,on usps m.o.,the PO can tell right away if it is counterfit (and they increasingly are i hear). doing that i also a big no no felony.

 

[Vamike9]

Verify, verify and verify some more. Take your time and watch what members are getting great feedback and those very few that aren't.
Use your instincts and see if you can talk to them via phone call and ask questions.
It's always a risk but I know many guys here that I follow and know are gtg, that's who I prefer to buy from.
Also, see if the seller is well known in the shooting community and if any can vouch for them.
Good luck, most are awesome on this site!

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

Lets see, which number do I want to use today?

View attachment 7047477

Most people don't use it but even so it is easy to connect an IP to any of those numbers. I have had to subpoena IPs and get owners information before to prove they were involved in internet crimes. Yes it can be a pain in the ass but there is always a digital trail. Any forensic computer/IT guy worth a crap can trace it as long as they have one end to start from.

 

[Renomd]

Nigerians have perfected usps money order scams which I have been victim to. I would always verify with a quick phone call if it’s that high dollar of an item and someone has zero reputation or seller feedback.

My situation: essentially internet scam with identity fraud of a beautiful girl whom sent some old single lonely man in Pennsylvania photos, built a repoire, and even promised she would marry him. She was a struggling single girl trying to get a fashion business off the ground.

The supposed girl (aka big ass Nigerian guy ) asked him to receive money orders for various items as payment. She would have him deposit it into his account then send western union to her account.

Unfortunately for me this was when I was still newer, I didn’t call to verbally talk to this person and the deal seemed too good. I even got this person to take pics of unique things next to the scope. All I got to say is they were very good at photo shop even got the shadowing right.

Well the police and usps couldn’t do jack. Spent over a month trying to get my money back. Usps was no help.... even the so called postal investigators whom are a branch of law enforcement.

I got a call two months after from the local police chief of that city. He explained the entire scam as above. Guy didn’t know what was occurring... he was found dead of apparent suicide shortly after finding the truth.


This is absolutely a true story and I have police report and to prove it.

Verify!

 

[FALex]

I'd tell any one that asked for a picture of my ID for an online transaction to go pound sand.



Maybe if the guy was desperate to sell he'd consider it. I'd just say screw it, easier to put it up on consignment sale at that same store and not bother with the hassle, then you can call the store and buy it for what I was wanting + their consignment markup.

Then again I have a built in distrust for buyers from long years of mail order selling as a business.

I'm betting that you haven't purchased anything off of armslist then.

You're right, in the fact that it's easier to put any item on consignment, but you pay for that service; losing almost 1/4 of that item's value on that fee alone.

I'm a cheap fucker, not doing that.

 

[antithesis]

Most people don't use it but even so it is easy to connect an IP to any of those numbers. I have had to subpoena IPs and get owners information before to prove they were involved in internet crimes. Yes it can be a pain in the ass but there is always a digital trail. Any forensic computer/IT guy worth a crap can trace it as long as they have one end to start from.

I beg to differ. I will forgo my experience and credentials in the network security field, but suffice to say creating a Google account is anonymous for all intensive purposes - no bad guy is going to use real information. They will whip on over to any public hot spot and have at it, as again, no self respecting bad guy is going to do anything of the sort using his home or work network. Trace back to that Starbucks, restaurant, or the guy down the street that is still using wep, all you want. Give me your phone number and I will be happy to play where's waldo with you.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I'm betting that you haven't purchased anything off of armslist then.

You're right, in the fact that it's easier to put any item on consignment, but you pay for that service; losing almost 1/4 of that item's value on that fee alone.

I'm a cheap fucker, not doing that.

I don't bother with armslist.

My local store charges 15% for consignment, but I find they tend to sell stuff locally for more than online prices. On special stuff they will list it online & take CC also.

 

[NB4Z]

i have been using usps MO for many many years and not a problem. any issues with sales then i call the authorities.

 

[proftwo]

I know some people do not like PayPal and I respect that. However more and more firearm related businesses use them.(not for firearms). In My case I bought a fake ACOG on Gunbroker and used PP. I contacted the seller and He was giving Me some caveat emptor bullcrap. I sent the case to PayPal and My money was refunded as soon as I sent back the fake scope. I also use PP if I sell something. Its quick and I will send an item the next business day with tracking. As others have mentioned using USPS Money Orders and tracking is also a good way to help protect yourself as buyer/seller.

 

[koobs84]

I definitely prefer using PayPal as a buyer and seller.. just more convenient since I'm a very busy person. The post office isn't exactly down the street and not in the safest part of town, and the line is always long whenever I do go.

As a seller I do my best with making the transaction go smoothly. I'll stay in touch along the way and I send the tracking number along with a picture of the shipping receipt which has the buyers mailing info, expected delivery date, and tracking number, just to show them it was shipped.

 

[Blutroop]

I refuse to use paypal. I have got my money back after a uspo money order got lost before. I’ve had some fun with scammers before. Found out cops don’t want to deal with scammers even when you hand them on a platter. Thing about a uspo money order is they must give you a address to mail it to. When it comes to people, trust your gut, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Research what your buying. If someone is misrepresenting what they got then you should know. If you don’t research you have no one to blame but self. Pictures can give away a lot of info. Good luck

 

[uawman]

I had a guy claim he didn’t get my USPO Mo that he specified.
He said he couldn’t wait anymore and went to the next buyer.
Moral of the story is that it was a great deal on a 4” Python and there were a bunch of buyers behind me that would buy if I didn’t. I truly believe that someone offered more and I had no way to dispute him. Now when I send a Mo I send it priority mail, no receipt but I know the mailman did his part

 

[Downtown]

I am sorry so many shooters financially support PayPal. I get that it's convenient, but we all know the company's political position. People who know better are donating to a anti 2A organization.

 

[antithesis]

I am sorry so many shooters financially support PayPal. I get that it's convenient, but we all know the company's political position. People who know better are donating to a anti 2A organization.

Your point is the reason I don't buy anything off ebay - forced PayPal unless the seller has a merchant account, which most don't, and you want to give some unknown your credit card. If only it was so easy to stop donating (eh hem, taxes) to the anti 2A government.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I am sorry so many shooters financially support PayPal. I get that it's convenient, but we all know the company's political position. People who know better are donating to a anti 2A organization.

That's why if I need to use their "services" on a personal level, I try to make sure to do it in a way that doesn't get them a profit.

 

[proftwo]

If the NRA or some other conservative group created a way to transfer funds electronically I would use it in a heartbeat. But if You think about it. Facebook,Google,You Tube, Amazon,credit card companies etc. almost every major player is owned,managed and staffed by people that dont support the 2nd Amendment. To even participate here You are using a Microsoft or Apple product

 

[jmsdad]

I like convenience, so Paypal is quick and easy for me. Had someone send me a fake ($50 value) PO money order 12years ago for an item I posted for sale. Decided to let the USPS deal with it. I don't know what happened and did not follow up with the postmaster.

Wouldn't it be better to go back to bartering and trading beads/trinkets?

 

[danc1996]

I normally use PayPal for the reason that you can't get your money back with a money order. Normally would ask for ID, references from other sales, talk to them on the phone (text or call) to see how they are, etc. Do whatever makes you the most comfortable but in general just be cautious and you should be fairly good to go around here

 

[Novak77]

Verify, verify, verify. If it's someone who's active on this or other sites and has positive feedback, you're probably going to be okay. If the persons not active on this or other sites, ask a ton of questions, ask for specific pics, talk to them on the phone etc. If you don't trust the person insist you use PayPal. If they don't like that, don't buy from them.

 

[168BTHPM]

I'm new to purchasing things over the internet. Is there any risk associated with sending somebody a money order before the item is shipped? What is the likelihood of being able to get your money back if something goes awry?

Are there any hide rules for sales? I heard there were some, but I am unable to find them.

Thank you.

There is always a risk when doing business with people, even in person.

Some people insist on USPS money orders because they think they are more secure than others and the Postal Inspector will prosecute you for mail fraud if you don't deliver. Nothing could be further from the truth, the Postal Inspector's office doesn't have the manpower to pursue every transaction that went bad, in reality or fiction.

** Another interesting fact about USPS money orders (and just about any other money order), the buyer can place a stop pay on them at any time up until they are actually deposited in a bank or cashed at a post office.

I like to use PayPal and add the 3% fee because if the transaction goes bad you can use PayPal to get your money back. Now a lot of people are going to have tantrums like 3 year olds and say PayPal is antigun. The may have stances some don't agree with but they are the financial facilitator for more gun related transactions than any other means. If they were truly antigun you wouldn't be able to pay for things purchased on Gun Broker or and any of the hundreds of thousands of gun parts sold on ebay.