I just bought a mosin barreled reciever it has sharp rifling but tword the beginning of the barrel it looks frosted and won't get clean. Do yal think that some jb bore bright could help this. Also I was going to use the military stock glass and pillar bed it and mount an nikon prostaff scope with ati mount. Is there anything else you think I can do to squeeze accuracy out of it. And I do relise that it is not a precision rifle so I have relistic expectations. Just want tomething for some hunting and stooting milk jugs at 300yd
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Mosin sporter build accuracy
- Thread starter Thresher96
- Start date
Been messin' with Mosin 91/30's for the last couple of years.
Ignore the frosted bore. It will clean up somewhat after firing some steel jacketed surplus, and will have minimum accuracy consequences; just be sure to clean up after the corrosive surplus priming by starting and finishing the cleaning progress with spraying some Windex down the bore and soaking a bit. It's the muzzle end where bore issues become critical.
Read through this thread for the odyssey so far. It should showcase the trail of astonishment and woe that accompanies the task of mounting a scope on a Mosin, and finally reveal a simpler, better way to do it.
Nikon? Really? I'm making a $50 NCStar Long Eye Relief scope do enough of the job for now. Some day, when I really lose my mind, this is on the wish list....
The key advantage of applying the Scout scope system is in how it allows a much simplified way of aiming/zeroing the rifle. Some means of raising the cheekweld with the scope should help, too. Just plod your way through the "Cheap Shooter" thread and methods will be revealed.
Glass/Pillar bedding probably won't have a major impact on accuracy, wrapping the barrel inside the stock channel with 2mm neoprene foam directly under where the barrel bands are may be a better approach. At some point you'll probably throw in the towel and jump for the Archangel stock. I am currently experimenting/evaluating such an installation.
Accuracy is found by applying several simple tricks and handloading has some realistic positive impact on the subject. Prvi-Partizan/PPU 150gr Softpoint ammo is an accuracy step up, and pretty good for hunting, too
Using the simple scope system, original stock, and military spamcan surplus ammo, a basic, bare bones bench rested accuracy of about 2"-3" at 100yd should be a realistic baseline. Improvement starts from there. Don't be too surprised if the Spamcan ammo is hard to beat, it's actually one of the more accurate loads I've tested in my 91/30's.
Also, do not pass go, immediately mount a Limbsaver on that baby. Mosin recoil is surprisingly sharp.
Greg
Ignore the frosted bore. It will clean up somewhat after firing some steel jacketed surplus, and will have minimum accuracy consequences; just be sure to clean up after the corrosive surplus priming by starting and finishing the cleaning progress with spraying some Windex down the bore and soaking a bit. It's the muzzle end where bore issues become critical.
Read through this thread for the odyssey so far. It should showcase the trail of astonishment and woe that accompanies the task of mounting a scope on a Mosin, and finally reveal a simpler, better way to do it.
Nikon? Really? I'm making a $50 NCStar Long Eye Relief scope do enough of the job for now. Some day, when I really lose my mind, this is on the wish list....
The key advantage of applying the Scout scope system is in how it allows a much simplified way of aiming/zeroing the rifle. Some means of raising the cheekweld with the scope should help, too. Just plod your way through the "Cheap Shooter" thread and methods will be revealed.
Glass/Pillar bedding probably won't have a major impact on accuracy, wrapping the barrel inside the stock channel with 2mm neoprene foam directly under where the barrel bands are may be a better approach. At some point you'll probably throw in the towel and jump for the Archangel stock. I am currently experimenting/evaluating such an installation.
Accuracy is found by applying several simple tricks and handloading has some realistic positive impact on the subject. Prvi-Partizan/PPU 150gr Softpoint ammo is an accuracy step up, and pretty good for hunting, too
Using the simple scope system, original stock, and military spamcan surplus ammo, a basic, bare bones bench rested accuracy of about 2"-3" at 100yd should be a realistic baseline. Improvement starts from there. Don't be too surprised if the Spamcan ammo is hard to beat, it's actually one of the more accurate loads I've tested in my 91/30's.
Also, do not pass go, immediately mount a Limbsaver on that baby. Mosin recoil is surprisingly sharp.
Greg
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I am still really confused the obsession to get a WW1 riffle and try to make a decent shooter. Those rifles are never meant to be decent shooter. It was meant to be a man stopper up to 100 yrd or so, very cheap and easy to train the soldier to shoot it. Nothing special about this rifle in those days. It you want less a $300 shooter get a Rem intro rifle 783, or Rugger American, or even a Savage XP-2.
I have a two higher end savages with good scopes. I didn't buy it because I'm cheep I did it because I like working on them with out spending to much.
And to greg. I don't really use those mil surp corrosive rounds I use privy ammo and silver bear. Will the same happen with these
I have other builds and do have a nc star scope. It worked really well. I just got two prostaff for 100 so wanted to try it out.
Yes, both bands for better effect.
The cheap shooter path is my approach but doesn't need to be anyone else's. However, some of the ideas work well no matter how much one wants to invest in their rifles.
The project is more about having some fun inexpensively and learning how to improve/troubleshoot rifle issues without having to sell the humble abode.
I have long been a proponent of Savage rifles (which are now no longer anywhere near as cheap as once they were); the Mosins are more about their simplicity, durability, and availability, sort of a "people's firearm".
I read "Nikon" and the dollar signs flash up in my mind's eye. I had no idea there were also such affordable ones.
Privvy/Bear? Privvy definitely not, Silver Bear, I don't know. The corrosive stuff is harmless if you clean the right way within 24 hours.
Besides, unpitted Mosin bores are not exactly common anyway. They just seem to forge on regardless. I honestly think the barreled actions are capable of a lot more accuracy than the original stocks, unmodified, and basic sights will allow.
Greg
The cheap shooter path is my approach but doesn't need to be anyone else's. However, some of the ideas work well no matter how much one wants to invest in their rifles.
The project is more about having some fun inexpensively and learning how to improve/troubleshoot rifle issues without having to sell the humble abode.
I have long been a proponent of Savage rifles (which are now no longer anywhere near as cheap as once they were); the Mosins are more about their simplicity, durability, and availability, sort of a "people's firearm".
I read "Nikon" and the dollar signs flash up in my mind's eye. I had no idea there were also such affordable ones.
Privvy/Bear? Privvy definitely not, Silver Bear, I don't know. The corrosive stuff is harmless if you clean the right way within 24 hours.
Besides, unpitted Mosin bores are not exactly common anyway. They just seem to forge on regardless. I honestly think the barreled actions are capable of a lot more accuracy than the original stocks, unmodified, and basic sights will allow.
Greg
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Would you belive I have two that are that way. I had another but my brother messed it up. Your way works too i got a deal on ebay for rhe scopes. I had an nc star scope for a while keeo ther zero great even when dropped. But the ajustmebt knob skrewed out so it broke and they sent me a new one . If any one is interested on gun broker there is a guy named chris selling mosin barreled recievers for 68 dollars. And he has a lot. Bought 3 and 2 looked like they hav never been shot. Glass bedding does help. I have seen this on Allthree of my mosins and its easy to do your self
Good, I have learned something from this dialogue and will be trying it in my Mosin with the original stock. If it works well, will do it for my Son-in-Law's Mosin that he's planning on using for this coming deer season.
Greg
It is a lot more interesting getting accuracy out of an old military rifle. It may easier to get accuracy form a modern rifle but anybody can do that but most will take some effort. Typically, most modern rifles will not do sub-MOA without some serious efforts anyway. Read the last 30 years of testing by the American Rifleman. Less than 5% of the rifles they test get many or any sub inch 5 shot groups at 100 yds from the 3 or 4 types of ammo they test it with. This includes Weatherby, Remington, Mossberg, Savage, Ruger, Sauer, BRNO, etc..
I have not seen any good reports on the scout mounts for Mosins. They are simply not solid enough for consistency. Typically, a good scope and solid mount will be required.
The PU system is extremely solid and not expensive. I suggest getting a good PU for around $500, preferably not a replica. Then get Soviet Extra Match ammo in the yellow box or handload match ammo with match componets. With this combo and a little homework MOA or better is doable. There are dozens of us that have done it with several rifles each so it has to be possible. Soviet Extra is rated at 6-9 cm 20 shot groups at 300 meters. Tell me that these rifles were never meant to be a decent shooter. Maybe hundreds of thousands of dead German would benefit from that information. Having fired PEs, PEMs, SVTs and PUs totaling about 50 over the last 19 years I am sure the Soviet snipers were intended to be decent shooters. Watch some you tube videos on construction and test of the PEM. They were quite precise in their manufacture quite like the US did with their 03 match rifles. The Soviet sniper program was leaps and bounds ahead of any other combatant in WW2 having began their extensive development in the late 1920s and having a solid PE top mount system by 1932 with a rugged scope designed by and built on Zeiss equiptment. They were the first to field a semi-auto sniper more than 5 years before the M1C heat treating screw ups delayed the M1C until summer of 45 and after VE day. The Germans quickly leaned to fear and respect the Russian snipers, used the rifles themselves like Sepp A did and fitted the scopes to their own rifles.
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Your welcome man. Most mosins need it because if you look there are large gaps in the front and back recoil lugs. This is why i think most people think there so in acxurate they just need a little love.You can buy a kit. I would for my savages. But for my mosins I get away with jb kwick weld and wd40. Just be sure to get the apoxy out of the skrew holes when your done or they will not skrew in all the way. You can do this with a sharp skrew that has smaller threads than the hole and some nail polish remover. Put the nail polish in then start skrewing it it will dig it out. After doing it to one of my more accurate builds it would put three holes ontop of eachother at 50 and 1 in at 100. Tell me your results. Not a miricle cure but it will help
You can share your wisdom with those WWII snipers who used these guns to take out Germans all the way to 800 meters. Well-documented facts. To pass the sniper test from Stavka (the Red Army Command) one had to hit a head size target at 300 meters and man's torso at 600. The Soviet sniper program was the most extensive of all. As a typical Soviet practice during a war, instead of developing a whole another rifle for sniper programs, the Soviets chose to "upgrade" the existing inventory with mounts and scopes. Obviously, only accurate Mosins were selected to be "sniper" rifles but my cheap beater Mosin that never meant to be a "sniper" regularly rings steel at 500 yards...not bad for a gun designed in 1891.
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Or!!!! Buy a Finnish m39 - each rifle had to shoot 1.5 MOA at 100 meters be fore it could be give n to a soldier for use in combat, that was with open sights. So you know how they shot with a PE or PEM scope. Mine will shoot 1.5 MOA off the bench with the irons
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A Boyd's stock, a half ass bedding job (free floating barrel), a Timney trigger, and a Smith Sights front sight got my 91/30 shooting ~1" groups at 50 yards with Prvi ammo. There may be room for improvement, as I had the green fiber optic front sight post installed, and I had trouble focusing on it.
Yeah, I spent as much on the stock and trigger (each) as I did on the rifle, but I have ~$350 and some elbow grease into a gun that most say would be lucky to hold a 4" group at 100 yards firing into roughly half that (1" group at 50 is likely to be close to a 2" group at 100). Could my money have been better spent elsewhere? Sure; I could upgrade the stock and trigger on an R700 ADL in .270 that I have and been better off... but for me, the Mosin isn't about "most accurate rifle"... it's more about, just how shiny can I get this turd (sort of)?
At the end of the day, I am using that gun to teach myself some rudimentary gun smithing skills (stock inletting, glass bedding) and I'll also use it to teach myself about the finer points of reloading (as soon as someone has decent .312 bullets in stock).
Yeah, I spent as much on the stock and trigger (each) as I did on the rifle, but I have ~$350 and some elbow grease into a gun that most say would be lucky to hold a 4" group at 100 yards firing into roughly half that (1" group at 50 is likely to be close to a 2" group at 100). Could my money have been better spent elsewhere? Sure; I could upgrade the stock and trigger on an R700 ADL in .270 that I have and been better off... but for me, the Mosin isn't about "most accurate rifle"... it's more about, just how shiny can I get this turd (sort of)?
At the end of the day, I am using that gun to teach myself some rudimentary gun smithing skills (stock inletting, glass bedding) and I'll also use it to teach myself about the finer points of reloading (as soon as someone has decent .312 bullets in stock).
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I have one that shoots .35 in at 50. I cut down the barrel to 23" put a boydes stock anf fully glass bedded it. Mosins really need the bedding. The boydes stocks alone have shitty bedding because they make the tolerances loose to fit all the variations.
I have one that shoots .35 in at 50. I cut down the barrel to 23" put a boydes stock anf fully glass bedded it. Mosins really need the bedding. The boydes stocks alone have shitty bedding because they make the tolerances loose to fit all the variations.
Barrel 22" and re-crowned for the 91/30. The military barrel is long with a light contour- usually too much "whip" which equals lousy harmonics.
Replace the trigger (Timney is the only option), install pillars and epoxy bed the receiver- correctly- in whatever stock you choose...
It's most important to start with a solid foundation- as near to perfect a bore as you can find with crisp rifling. You're looking for a beautiful 75+ year old barrel, that's seen corrosive ammo...not easy. There's no mystery here... it's a bolt gun, and you treat accurizing the same was as a modern action. Don't even waste your time, effort, and money if the bore is less than "damn- that's nice!"
Replace the trigger (Timney is the only option), install pillars and epoxy bed the receiver- correctly- in whatever stock you choose...
It's most important to start with a solid foundation- as near to perfect a bore as you can find with crisp rifling. You're looking for a beautiful 75+ year old barrel, that's seen corrosive ammo...not easy. There's no mystery here... it's a bolt gun, and you treat accurizing the same was as a modern action. Don't even waste your time, effort, and money if the bore is less than "damn- that's nice!"
Never Dull will brighten up a Mosin bore... but I don't think it would touch frosting. You've got what you've got at this point. I'd shoot her and see how it goes before committing to anything.
I have done a thing or two with Mosins... Just putting that out there. I think the ergonomics of the original stock are terrible!! Having said that if you want to keep the original stock, I'd definitely wrap the barrel, and bed the receiver. You can find 'corking' kits here... Smith-Sights: Adjustable, high-impact sighting systems for your Mosin-Nagant!
Here is my 1932 Tula that I sporterized... keeping the original barrel.
You can find the specifics here... Surplusrifle Forum ? View topic - Mosin Nagant Sporter Project-With Range Report
One thing that I will say is that even if you have a perfect bore... bright, strong rifling, etc. These are not match grade barrels by any means. This rifle has 2-3 fast paced shots before the barrel heats up and starts to walk. If I pace my shots, and keep the barrel cool to the touch... she hammers. Here is a five shot group @ 100 with 174 grain SMK's over 55 grains of IMR 4350 (spaced over 20 min).
Here is a short video that I put together of some footage taking her out... definitely fun, but you've got to know her limits and keep your expectations realistic.
[video=youtube;7aU-tZnxMBY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aU-tZnxMBY&list=UUg7RVnvKoct7D7sBmB2VAsw[/video]
I have done a thing or two with Mosins... Just putting that out there. I think the ergonomics of the original stock are terrible!! Having said that if you want to keep the original stock, I'd definitely wrap the barrel, and bed the receiver. You can find 'corking' kits here... Smith-Sights: Adjustable, high-impact sighting systems for your Mosin-Nagant!
Here is my 1932 Tula that I sporterized... keeping the original barrel.
You can find the specifics here... Surplusrifle Forum ? View topic - Mosin Nagant Sporter Project-With Range Report
One thing that I will say is that even if you have a perfect bore... bright, strong rifling, etc. These are not match grade barrels by any means. This rifle has 2-3 fast paced shots before the barrel heats up and starts to walk. If I pace my shots, and keep the barrel cool to the touch... she hammers. Here is a five shot group @ 100 with 174 grain SMK's over 55 grains of IMR 4350 (spaced over 20 min).
Here is a short video that I put together of some footage taking her out... definitely fun, but you've got to know her limits and keep your expectations realistic.
[video=youtube;7aU-tZnxMBY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aU-tZnxMBY&list=UUg7RVnvKoct7D7sBmB2VAsw[/video]
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