Gunsmithing Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

[AussieShooter]

Is there any one barrel maker that stands out above the rest?

I am considering getting a new barrel as the one I have is the orginal Remington 700 VS. I have since added a AI 1.5 stock, got the stock trigger brought down to 2 pounds. I have only put 1000 rounds to it at most.
I spoke to the gunsmith, known as the best in my city and he said there was no point getting a custom trigger as long as the one I have is crisp and the heavy barrel shoots under 1 moa is more than good enough.
I am after a second oppinion and thought you guys might be able to help.
I am not shooting bench rest at the moment but like most shooters want the best out of their rifles without waisting their cash and the law of diminished returns.

 

[Graham]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

There are plenty of good barrel makers. But some of the best barrels shoot better than the other best barrels. At the tip of the spear, and all other things being equal, it probably comes down to a lack of runout in the individual example. That said, if the barrel you have shoots well there is no reason to replace it. Leave the rifle alone and use the funds to buy good ammo.

 

[vman]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

Aussie whos the smith and which state?


I know my smith sells rock creek and benchmark barrels.

Keen to find out if one stands out compared to the others. I dont think one will be crap tho

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

Your smith is probably correct. I actually admire a craftsman who isn't trying to get the gold out of a customer's teeth. Listen to the man, he has at least one point in his and your favor.

I think it's easy to get caught up in the 'only the best equipment will do' fallacy. Skills are primary, tools are secondary. In tune with your smith's advice, reliability is the key attribute in a piece of equipment. It needs to perform in consistent enough a manner to reveal the quality of the shooter's performance on the given day. Marksmanship is about improvement, deterioration, and maintenance of skills.

The time for equipment upgrades is when the equipment can be proven to retard one's skills refinement. When you can demonstrate to yourself that nobody else can shoot your equipment as well as you can; that's when to consider a barrel upgrade.

In the meantime, I personally believe that the centerfire rifle is not the best implement for marksmanship training and maintenance. I think each particular rifle has a purpose, and that training should employ a dedicated rimfire trainer rifle. Again, it does not need to be impeccably accurate, but it does need to be reliably accurate within reasonable limits. The centerfire rifle has a purpose as well, and using it for training degrades its lifespan.

When a barrel upgrade is warranted, understand that barrel makers work to standards that are determined by the materials they employ. Most for the established ones will deliver to the highest standard, and what small differences may exist between their products are not very greatly consequential.

Most likely, even the best shooter can't say with absolute certainty whether the barrel's doing the talking or their own skills are. For every manner in which a barrel's attributes may produce a less than totally ideal shot, the marksman is trying to get at least a half dozen tasks as perfectly performed as possible. When the outcome is imperfect (and it's <span style="font-style: italic">always</span> imperfect to some tiny degree), it's a good bet that the barrel isn't the primary cause. When things are temporarily not quite right, the odds usually favor the fault being in the skills instead of in the equipment.

Again, when you can demonstrate to yourself that the barrel shoots no better for anyone else, think about another barrel. Either that, or you've just become the best marksman on the planet. I honestly hope that actually happens.

In short, you get a match grade barrel from any of the top half dozen or so makers, and you're not doing badly at all. IMHO, delivery backlogs and customer service attitudes are more important.

Greg

 

[LRI]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

In 20+ years of doing this stuff in one capacity or another the one thing I've learned is there's a close corolation between equipment and the confidence level a shooter has. A guy needs to believe in his rifle in order to believe in himself.

In the same breath it should also be tempered with a reality check. As Greg said there's a great seductuion with statements like "only the best. . . ."

Rookies tend to focus on the equipment more. Hunting for that wigit that'll magically make groups get smaller. More experienced shooters tend to devote attention to process and procedure. I'm routinley bombarded by new clients reciting parts from a catalog. They can tell you everything a guy wants to know about a muzzle brake. Its daunting to keep up with all the new stuff out there.

I've instructed/coached on a scale larger than most over this past 1/4 century. What its taught me is it takes great effort on behalf of a shooter to out perform his/her equipment. Unless you are routinely finding that your calls/plots aren't jiving, leave your stuff alone and invest more time/money towards improving your shooting. They are perishable skills so be dilligent.

I say leave your stuff alone until one of two things happen. You get to a point where you know your holding inside the rifle's potential or the barrel let's loose and strings from one end of the 8 ring to the other.

A rimfire can be an axcellent way to sharpen fundementals but temper it with knowing that they are also very fickle guns that require lots of effort to shoot well.

Hope this helped

C.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

I agree completely. While my comments may suggest that custom rifle fabrication is unnecessary, I beg to differ.

First, shooter confidence is crucial. If a shooter doesn't believe they can excel, odds are very good they won't. Within reason, anything that reinforces that confidence is a good thing. With my means, I try rather hard to find ways of achieving that which do not involve large monetary investments, but that's just my own personal quirk.

In all ways, I second C. Dixon's views on this.

Greg

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

Let me parrot what Mr. Dixon and Mr. Langelius have stated. IMO for high shooter confidence, the shooter must have absolute belief that his rifle has the capacity to shoot inside his ability. AKA: The rifle must be more accurate than he is.

When the shooter's ability increases or the rifles capacity decreases to a point where they are nearing intersection, the shooter's confidence will suffer. Once that doubt enters your mind, it's time to make a change.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

I concur with everything said to this point. Practice, practice, practice. If you say the current barrel holds under 1 MOA that's probably good enough. If you do plan to do benchrest, let your gunsmith lead you in the direction you should go. Your barrel sounds fine.

 

[blakheaven]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

For the majority of us, we don't make a living shooting, its a hobby so I say get what you want/ can afford. Your barrel might out shoot you but if you made it up in your mind to have a top notch barrel go for it. As far as barrels go, I have only used 2 custom barrls, Hart and Schneider, and factory barrels on the majority of my rifles. Although I loved the custom barrels, the stock barrels were just as capable to my shooting skills, and I know way better shots that me that have never had a single custom barrel. You cant go wrong taking advice from Mr. Dixon and Mr. Langelius

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

I'd be more concerned with your gunsmith choice. Their ability to thread and chamber with close tolerances are going to be the final determining factor with any of the top barrel makers - the majority of the time.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

I think I have (despite my still continuimg Ghost Dancer period...) always been a champion of the factory rifle. The implements that come in a factory box have constantly improved; most to the point where I honestly believe the owner who can wring out that last drop of accuracy is rather fewer than the average.

Most of my rifles are factory rifles with a very few home gunsmithing tweaks, mostly bedding and trigger adjustement. Beyond that, I set my sails on load evelopment and a moderately simple handloading regimen.

Marksmanship excellence is a balance of skill and technology. IMHO, the factory technology has risen to the point where the shooter is playing catchup to the factories.

It's humbling for sure; and it's somethng the custom builders need to heed. The margin narrows.

I think that's a good thing, perhaps a marvelous thing. It can only breed improvement.

I also think it put the obligation precisely where it belongs; on the marksman.

We're running out of excuses for those misses.

Greg

 

[cal50]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

As others has said a match barrel is great but if your skill level is not on the same level its a waste of money and a good barrel.

When I started shooting service rifle it seemed impossible to hit a small target offhand at 200 yards.Offhand practice with an air rifle improved my hold and scores. I had a Wilson SS barrel on my service rifle and it would easily hold the 10 ring. As my skills improved so did my hold and I could hold tighter than my gun was printing. I then switched to a Krieger barrel which improved the mechanical capability of my rifle and eliminated that as an excuse. It will hold the "X" ring. If I miss its where I aimed it.
My "cheap" Wilson barrel took me to master class. The Krieger will do its part to improve to the next level.

Get a good trigger #1 or at least one your comfortable with. When your scores improve so should your equipment.

I have Krieger's on my AR15 and an M1 in .308 and both tubes are hammers. Proper install is a must.

 

[bpainter]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

I personaly like Hart Barrels. I have 8 rifles with Hart Barrels and they all shoot under 1/2 MOA at 100 yards.

I know of some factory rifles that shoot with the best custom rifles. If a rifle shoots like you want it too then I see no reason to change barrels.

 

[AussieShooter]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

I'm based in Perth and I know the gunsmith I use does all the police tactical long range rifles. Its been a while since I really put my marksmanship to the test. One thing I have found is that my heavy barrel gets quite hot after about 3 consecutive rounds. I'm not sure if I can improve my accuracy by keeping the barrel cool and ie tightening my groups. Are their barrels that can keep cool for more than 3 rounds? I have seen barrels that look like a one barrel inside of another possibly minimizing heat dispertion and possibly swelling?

 

[breezernate]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

My opinion:

I am not a gunsmith. I am an engineer, though, so I am always confident in my answers whether they are right or wrong! I have that disease!

One must trust his equipment, but there is indeed a point of diminishing returns. My friend has a factory Rem with a pencil barrel that shoots as well as many customs. There are fewer of those percentage-wise, though, I would say.

My smith is a former SEAL who now works at Crane in managment where they build sniper rifles such as the MK13 (A rem 700 in an AICS stock with suppressor). He has witnessed several tests of different rifles, calibers, technologies, etc. He is also a competetive Palma shooter. They happen to use Lilja for at least some of their barrels, but it may be more a matter of production capability for the volumes they need more than sheer quality.

I think most of the top barrel makers make barrels that will shoot so well nobody could tell the difference without specialized tools and tests.

Ammo is the most often ignored factor for accuracy, behind marksmanship skills, of course, in my opinion.

I agree that chambering has to be an important part of optimum accuracy; if the bullet doesn't start out straight and concentric within the bore, there is little hope for accuracy downrange.

About breakin:
He said, "A good barrel will shoot, a bad barrel never will." He doesn't believe in barrel breakin. Their tests show it doesn't matter, it just wears out barrels.

BN

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

My first 'Tactical' Rifle was (and still is) a very basic post-'64 Winchester M70, with a sporter barrel chambered in .30-'06.

It shoots well enough to have taken 3rd in the 1997 NJ State Sniper Rifle Championship, firing Fed Gold Medal 168gr factory loads.

What did I know at the time? Not much apparently, but the combination did the job. I had just finished reading <span style="font-style: italic">One shot, one kill</span>, and my mind was yammering, "Win 70, .30-'06" as fast as it could, and I took the hook.

As long as the round and barrel are well matched, good things happen.

Intuitively, I had expected the accuracy to go away when things got hot, but it didn't. Conversely, the thinner barrel cooled much quicker afterward.

These days, it's may deer rifle; but it wears a 6-24x42 MilDot scope, and I suppose it could be dragooned into other applications. It's well (<span style="font-style: italic">well!!!</span>) under ten pounds fully loaded.

Greg

 

[LRI]

Re: Most Accurate .308 Barrel?

To answer the original question.

A Mark Chanlynn 30 caliber barrel is tough to beat. The stuff from Brux is doing very well also. I've recently began using them a lot and they've all been great.

Good luck.