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most accurate powder measure
- Thread starter perazzisc3
- Start date
I use a Redding BR-2 powder measure in conjunction with a RCBS 10-10 beam scale. Nothing electronic or any issues with different things affecting a electronic scale. I throw the charge just under and trickle up to the desired weight. Once you get the hang of it, its really fast and very accurate.
I used a charge master until the keypad failed. Once I did the McDonald's straw trick, it would still occasionally overthrow, but not too bad. Now using a Montana Vintage Arms Measure. I like it a bunch. I like the micrometer adjustable charge tube. It is repeatable enough that I do my load development using the micrometer scale on the charge tube instead of weights. With ball powders, virtually no charge to charge variation. With the worst stick powders, up to .3gr variation. I'm not weighing each charge anymore.
John
John
another vote for the Lee PPM... about 25 dollars, and it'll out-throw many of the best. (but you gotta adjust the drum tension right, or it'll puke ball powder all over the bench)... 
+1
Most are almost always spot on if not close if you use a ball powder.
But the charge master is a great system
Does it puke when it is too tight or too loose? Mine does that.
another vote for the Lee PPM... about 25 dollars, and it'll out-throw many of the best. (but you gotta adjust the drum tension right, or it'll puke ball powder all over the bench)...
I use the hornady electronic scale/dispenser and I'm happy with it so far.
Sierracharlie out....
Sierracharlie out....
2 things I like about the Lee;
the diameter of the chamber is small, so the surface are that is "wiped" every time is small, theoretically yielding the smallest variation
and
the graduations that make returning to a previous setup a breeze
Other than that it's crap. It's hard to actuate when tightened enough to keep powder from falling out of the gaps and nearly useless on a progressive in my experience. It sure is inexpensive, though.
For pistols on the progressive I use the Lee AutoDisk Pro and it's very good (as best I can measure with an Ohaus/Lyman balance) and will nail a weight charge after charge.
For rifles on the progressive I use the Hornady Lock 'n Load measure, and it's good enough for the type of rifle ammo I load on a progressive, like the 5k rounds of .223 for gas guns I ran off a month ago.
For precision I use the Lee PPM by hand and trickle up the last .1 grain or so.
Joe
the diameter of the chamber is small, so the surface are that is "wiped" every time is small, theoretically yielding the smallest variation
and
the graduations that make returning to a previous setup a breeze
Other than that it's crap. It's hard to actuate when tightened enough to keep powder from falling out of the gaps and nearly useless on a progressive in my experience. It sure is inexpensive, though.
For pistols on the progressive I use the Lee AutoDisk Pro and it's very good (as best I can measure with an Ohaus/Lyman balance) and will nail a weight charge after charge.
For rifles on the progressive I use the Hornady Lock 'n Load measure, and it's good enough for the type of rifle ammo I load on a progressive, like the 5k rounds of .223 for gas guns I ran off a month ago.
For precision I use the Lee PPM by hand and trickle up the last .1 grain or so.
Joe
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I have been impressed with my Harrel and RL15. The catch is that for it to be consistent, you must be consistent in its operation. I can usually keep throws +/- 0.15 of the target. I have a Lee (it was cheap and worth a shot) and never use it. If you plan to throw more than one weight/powder combo you may find the Lee frustrating. You can dial the Harrel all over and back and only be a few clicks off.
Just out of curiosity, I know you didn't just pull this out of thin air, so could you tell me what scale you're using? .05gr on a pistol powder, is some very fine, and I mean fine measuring, do you find any difference between let's say 5.0 vs 5.05 grains of bullseye, velocity wise of course?
I'm running a Sartorius GD503. It actually measures down to .005gr, and far as I can tell there's no major measurable difference when your talking .05gr at least in pistol. Precision rifle rounds of the .260 or 6cm....ya I've seen it, but not so much on the pistol. +/- .05gr it shots 1 ragged hole at 20 yards for me when I get my point of aim the same on all the shots.
For instance my load right now for my 230gr 45acp rounds is 4.7, I normally see any where 4.65 to 4.75gr from my Lee Perfect Powder Measure.
For instance my load right now for my 230gr 45acp rounds is 4.7, I normally see any where 4.65 to 4.75gr from my Lee Perfect Powder Measure.
I use a Chargemaster and verify the loads thrown with a Sartorius GD503. Probably overkill, but I just like my powder weight to be as consistent and accurate as possible. I know this makes me a candidate for a Prometheus
For ball powder, I use a Harrells. Very smooth, and accurate. For stick powders, the Chargemaster is the choice. Lightman
If money is no object look into a Prometheus II
If you're on a budget check into Harrells
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If you're on a budget check into Harrells
sent from my RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk 2
Seemingly everybody is reporting on the electronic measures...I think he was asking about, "Powder Measures", which to me means the MECHANICAL measures, or "throwers" as people say. From what I can gather, both personal and related experiences...most are as good as the best. Ball powders... 0.1 grains variation. Short grains (4320 or 4895) .2s or so. Big grains... about .2 to .3 or .4 grains depending on technique. The best I have ever used is the discontinued B&M measure. 0.2 with the big grains and much better with the smaller or rounder. Hard to find, but well worth the search. JMHO
another vote for the Lee PPM... about 25 dollars, and it'll out-throw many of the best. (but you gotta adjust the drum tension right, or it'll puke ball powder all over the bench)...
Please explain as I have one and no matter what it leaks
If your drum is scratched up, it may help to disassemble the drum, and polish the surfaces inside with 400 grit sandpaper. If your wiper is worn, you can cut a shim from a plastic bottle (like milk jug thickness) and put it under the wiper (this keeps you from having to replace that wiper)... and adjust the tension on that drum screw when you put it back together, and it'll work--or it should.
Dan
I had read good things about the Belding and Mull. Tried it and liked it so well that I bought the MVA. It's a newer version of the Belding and Mull, just better machined to tighter tolerances. Love my MVA...
John
For me,
A lyman 55 mounted on a shelf, I throw 1g under and toss onto the 10-10 with a Omega electric trickler with the stop kit. It will complete a charger with the accuracy of .01g faster then I can seat the bullet of the previous round.
A lyman 55 mounted on a shelf, I throw 1g under and toss onto the 10-10 with a Omega electric trickler with the stop kit. It will complete a charger with the accuracy of .01g faster then I can seat the bullet of the previous round.
I have one and its OK for ball and flaked powders extruded I don't like it for.
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sent from my RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk 2
Love my Harrell's. For ball powders, it's dead on if the operator is consistent. With small grain stick, such as 52 grains of RL-22, I can keep it to within +.2 (nothing on the negative side). But I have to be *very* consistent.
Note that in previous tests between thrown and weighed charges, my Oehler 35P reported that the thrown charges had a slightly smaller Standard Deviation than the weighed charges. Once I get my new 6.5-284 load dialed in, I'm going to repeat the test using the RL-22. The question is: How much real-world difference does .2 grains make in a 52-grain charge?
If I can't repeat the earlier results, and if I can detect degradation in 600-yard and beyond accuracy, I may buy an electronic dispenser. Just don't know which one.
Richard
Note that in previous tests between thrown and weighed charges, my Oehler 35P reported that the thrown charges had a slightly smaller Standard Deviation than the weighed charges. Once I get my new 6.5-284 load dialed in, I'm going to repeat the test using the RL-22. The question is: How much real-world difference does .2 grains make in a 52-grain charge?
If I can't repeat the earlier results, and if I can detect degradation in 600-yard and beyond accuracy, I may buy an electronic dispenser. Just don't know which one.
Richard
All measures work the same so there can't possibly be any large differences between any of them. No volume measure can despense anything precisely by weight and they get worse if the user is clumsy. All measures are fairly consistant with ball powders and thick flakes, none work really well with thin flakes or long, coarse tubular kernels. IF the user experiments to find what operation rythum does best with each powder type they will do okay for all but the most fastediouus of us. For those people a trickler and scale is the way to go so the consistancy of the measure becomes almost irrelivant. If the user is clumsy or too impatient to learn to use his measure well then one of the digital dumpsters may be the best option.
I started with a Redding Master in '65 and it still works fine. So does the Herter's I got later. So does my Lee PPM. So do various friends Lyman, Hornady and RCBS measures. I didn't find the one very costly Harrel measure I once used to be any better to use than the others but I'm sure it would return to a previous setting very well - if that matters to anyone not loading on the line at a BR match. I suppose Redding's BR measure would be good for small charges since it has a chamber optimized for small volumes of fine grained powders but most riflemen need to drop larger volumes than it can dispense. Any rifle measure will benefit from one of the optional pistol chambers for handgun stuff if the maker offers one. Only Lyman's old but still excellant #55 has a chamber that can be adjusted in three ways to ideally accommidate anything we may wish to drop but it also puts some demands on the user to know what he's doing.
As a personal side issue, long ago I was a high precision electonic instrument repair and calibration tech at Cape Kennedy. There has never been an electric powder scale of any kind on my bench nor will there ever be.
Bottom line,, pick a color or price point you like and buy youself a measure, it will serve you well if you learn to use it well.
I started with a Redding Master in '65 and it still works fine. So does the Herter's I got later. So does my Lee PPM. So do various friends Lyman, Hornady and RCBS measures. I didn't find the one very costly Harrel measure I once used to be any better to use than the others but I'm sure it would return to a previous setting very well - if that matters to anyone not loading on the line at a BR match. I suppose Redding's BR measure would be good for small charges since it has a chamber optimized for small volumes of fine grained powders but most riflemen need to drop larger volumes than it can dispense. Any rifle measure will benefit from one of the optional pistol chambers for handgun stuff if the maker offers one. Only Lyman's old but still excellant #55 has a chamber that can be adjusted in three ways to ideally accommidate anything we may wish to drop but it also puts some demands on the user to know what he's doing.
As a personal side issue, long ago I was a high precision electonic instrument repair and calibration tech at Cape Kennedy. There has never been an electric powder scale of any kind on my bench nor will there ever be.
Bottom line,, pick a color or price point you like and buy youself a measure, it will serve you well if you learn to use it well.
^^Years ago, I made a small chart for personal use, and personal knowledge, and I weighed one granule of powder (actually is was more like ten, but one at a time) of various extruded powders I was loading, in short how many granules of a given powder generally made up 0.1 grain, Was my goal. I used a chem labs scale-calaibrated in the glass case, table it was mounted on had a weight of something in the order of 1000 pounds. There is no doubt this was an anal exercise, but I was curious, could SDs be brought down to near zero if a very accurate weight of powder, better than 0.1 was used, and if the cases used were measured to have almost identical case capacity, bullets weight-same anal exercise, in fact I even weighed a bunch of primers, and only loaded those that had near identical weights. And the answer was yes you can load ammo with a SD that is lower than the 35P was accurately able to report. Did it shoot any better? Not really, but it didn't shoot any worse, and the time spent in this exercise would have been far better spent on the range, but as many of the experiementers on this board know, once you get "wild hair", you just "got to know". I'm glad there are those using very accurate scales, for me 0.1 grains has been working well.
Rifles the likes of surgeon scalpels,crescent customs , APA, GAP etc
are hardly the same rifles of "years ago" combine their tolerances with todays scale technology,ive seen the results of accurate scales,its not a question,its fact
poison -
So the Sartorius GD503 is no longer being made. Do you have any idea what is the closest in price and accuracy? Balances.com says there is no direct replacement and they don't have any in stock.
Sartorius Practum 124-1S analytical Balance - Precision Weighing Balances
This is the one that matches the .0001g readability of 503, i was wondering why the othe one p found was cheaper
This is the one that matches the .0001g readability of 503, i was wondering why the othe one p found was cheaper
I just bought an A&D FX-300i (FX-i Series Details) for $650 shipped.
Magnetic force restoration balance with .02 grain resolution (.001 gram) and it resolves single granules of H4350. Not quite as precise as the Sartorious but around 1/3 the price. Updates in one second, so it's way faster trickling up than with a beam scale.
It's been pretty amazing so far.
The best price was at A&D® Scales. FX-i Series Precision Toploading Digital Balances. We're One of the Largest A&D® Dealers By Sales Volume! Money Back Guarantee! Models FX-120i, FX-200i, FX-300i, FX-1200i, FX-2000i, FX-3000i
The FX-120i it's right at $600 shipped but I spent the extra $50 for the extra capacity just in case I have to reload a Howitzer or something.
Joe
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Magnetic force restoration balance with .02 grain resolution (.001 gram) and it resolves single granules of H4350. Not quite as precise as the Sartorious but around 1/3 the price. Updates in one second, so it's way faster trickling up than with a beam scale.
It's been pretty amazing so far.
The best price was at A&D® Scales. FX-i Series Precision Toploading Digital Balances. We're One of the Largest A&D® Dealers By Sales Volume! Money Back Guarantee! Models FX-120i, FX-200i, FX-300i, FX-1200i, FX-2000i, FX-3000i
The FX-120i it's right at $600 shipped but I spent the extra $50 for the extra capacity just in case I have to reload a Howitzer or something.
Joe
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Because the 124-1S has .0001g resolution while the 213 has .001g resolution.
The A&D has better linearity and faster response speed (1 second vs. 3) than the 213 plus a 5 year warranty for 2/3 the price of the Sartorius 213.
The Sartorius 124 is in another league (ten times the resolution) but is almost $2k, has a 4 second response time (!) and still only comes with a 2 year warranty.
Joe
Anybody with experience with this A&D?
A&D HR-100A analytical balance
A&D HR-100A analytical balance Balance - Precision Weighing Balances
A&D HR-100A analytical balance
A&D HR-100A analytical balance Balance - Precision Weighing Balances
Here's an interesting review/comparison of several measures head to head. The Lee gave many of the big $$ measures a run for the money.
Target Shooter March 2011
Target Shooter March 2011
I don't trust powder measures, period.
Rather than chasing my tail looking for one that I can assume is accurate (enough); I work under the assumption that no matter what measure use, it's won't be perfect. I then set up my measure so that it's consistently inaccurate, and always going to drop a bit more powder than I'll be needing.
I dump the caseload into the scale pan, pinch out several tenths between index and thumb, then slowly trickle it back into the pan, stopping when the scale increments to just the desired weight. Any excess gets dropped back into the measure's hopper. The pan's content goes into the drop tube funnel and the case is recharged, then reinserted into the RL550B's baseplate.
Used in this manner, even the Dillon measure is clearly adequate for making accurate ammunition. Weighing (and adjusting) charge weights takes time, but I'd be check-weighing even the most reliable measure's output anyway, so the real difference is negligible.
I both trust and verify, like Mr. Reagan once suggested.
Greg
Rather than chasing my tail looking for one that I can assume is accurate (enough); I work under the assumption that no matter what measure use, it's won't be perfect. I then set up my measure so that it's consistently inaccurate, and always going to drop a bit more powder than I'll be needing.
I dump the caseload into the scale pan, pinch out several tenths between index and thumb, then slowly trickle it back into the pan, stopping when the scale increments to just the desired weight. Any excess gets dropped back into the measure's hopper. The pan's content goes into the drop tube funnel and the case is recharged, then reinserted into the RL550B's baseplate.
Used in this manner, even the Dillon measure is clearly adequate for making accurate ammunition. Weighing (and adjusting) charge weights takes time, but I'd be check-weighing even the most reliable measure's output anyway, so the real difference is negligible.
I both trust and verify, like Mr. Reagan once suggested.
Greg
