Mother of God! Trijicon Ventus...

#4
Nick Vitalbo of nVisti made mention of this technology years back in some interviews; that being, wind-reading lasers. It's nice to see it's headed into the hands of civilian end users.

Can't imagine what would top that at SHOT.
 
#5
Skookum said:
The ad says the rangefinder is good to 5k yards, but the LIDAR is only good to 500 yards. WTF, over?

??
Click to expand...
Last I checked, no other publicly available LRF does any wind stuff at all. So, I'd say something for wind that covers 99.9% of hunting ranges (500 and in) is pretty neat-o.
 
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#10
skierhs said:
I’m caught off guard enough I haven’t had time to think of any yet haha. Future connectivity with a Garmin foretrex 701 and kestral is my largest question so far.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely interested in that, however they mention their own ballistic app so I'm not sure they'll think about a kestrel for some time.

I'd like to know beam divergence and weight.
 
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#12
Covertnoob5 said:
I'm definitely interested in that, however they mention their own ballistic app so I'm not sure they'll think about a kestrel for some time.

I'd like to know beam divergence and weight.
Click to expand...
I heard that and hope that they will open up the connectivity. They’ll do a lot better if they open up the gadgets that the ranger finder can connect too.
 
#15
clcustom1911 said:
Last I checked, no other publicly available LRF does any wind stuff at all. So, I'd say something for wind that covers 99.9% of hunting ranges (500 and in) is pretty neat-o.
Click to expand...
Maybe the same Fudds that buy shit like the Gunwerk G7's will finance the the advancement of this technology then. Till then, I'll just keep practicing my wind reading.
 
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#21
Like this

products_Venom.jpg
 
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#29
So serious question.

Whats this have over a PLRF15c + directly linked Trimble/FFS setup?

A few things I see is that it will take the Kestrel out of the equation as far as non-wind enviromentals which is nice as well as be weapon mountable. All of the data/ballistics info still gets sent to a 3rd party unit (Im guessing your phone) albeit with Bluetooth and not an unobtanium cable. And the 500y LIDAR is cool, but not something I'd go crazy over.

What am I missing other than its nice we're finally moving forward with more high end LRFs that aren't made in Switzerland with a shit tier warranty?

eta; just realized the LIDAR was wind. That's actually a bit of a deal as you'll have a cheater distance to base a further wind call off of.
 
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#30
lowlight said:
Yes,

A good laser is a $1 a yard to range, so if it truly does reach 5k, that is pretty good.

For $8k it's a good deal if it ranges to 5k,
Click to expand...

I think I saw where they specifically said 5Kyds on "non reflective" targets. !
That makes me think smaller beam size and ability to pick out the smaller targets in cluttered environments within the 400 to 1000 yd range where it would really be needed. Cool stuff.

./
 
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#31
lowlight said:
Yes,

A good laser is a $1 a yard to range, so if it truly does reach 5k, that is pretty good.

For $8k it's a good deal if it ranges to 5k,
Click to expand...
Serious question...

Since 3k yards is pushing the limits of shoulder fired spin stabilized projectiles, what is the value of being able to range 5K yards? When I was an artillery grunt, I could have definitely used that, but as a rifle shooter not so much.

The other aspect is that yardage is getting cheaper and cheaper. The Leupold 2800 will reliably range 2500 yards for $400. That is $0.16 per yard. So is 5K yards for $8K still a good deal?
 
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#32
Skookum said:
Serious question...

Since 3k yards is pushing the limits of shoulder fired spin stabilized projectiles, what is the value of being able to range 5K yards? When I was an artillery grunt, I could have definitely used that, but as a rifle shooter not so much.

The other aspect is that yardage is getting cheaper and cheaper. The Leupold 2800 will reliably range 2500 yards for $400. That is $0.16 per yard. So is 5K yards for $8K still a good deal?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, see above.

Your Leupold that you reliably range out to 2,500yds with will not pick out a soft target in a crowded environment at 700yds and that is where the LRFs are needed most.

People are saying they lase cows or elk or deer at xyz yards but i wager they are catching the hill or other objects in the vicinity rather than that non-reflective patch of fur. I have seen the same errors with steel plates on T-posts where a shooter gets XYZ range on their LRF but miss high because they were tagging a hill or objects 100 yards past the plate which was confirmed with a Vector or similar after the fact.

If an LRF is said to consistently tag targets, especially non-reflective targets at several thousand yards, that tells me it has the beam divergence and sensitivity to do the real work at far shorter ranges and in any light conditions. To me, that is huge.



./
 
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#33
Having played with various range finders in Alaska in very cold weather I can tell you all the sub $1000 models don’t work very well in it. Add in fog, rain, or snow and forget about it. My old Terrapin is still performs in those conditions. This one from Trijicon I’m guessing will outperform most in the worst conditions and that’s why it’ll be worth it to some.
 
#34
I use LiDAR all the time at work, only for terrain though. As Frank & others have said, the ability to use LiDAR to measure wind has been around for a long time (think ocean racers & meteorologists). It is cool to see the technology moving a little closer to our segment. Just like gps or LRFs, it’s only a matter of time to make it small, affordable & accurate for the masses.
 
#35
LIDAR integration is pretty neat, but to be only functional for 500 yards is a bit moot. Wind 500 yards and in isn't going to effect the bullet that much, not enough to realize the benefits of an expensive LIDAR unit.

Neat idea, but for the LIDAR to add any real value, it needs to be effective for much further ranges then 500 yards. Most shooters can ball park wind enough to be effective for 500 yards and in without any fancy radar units.

I like where the tech is heading though, be cool to see where we are with this type of stuff 5-10 years from now.
 
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#36
kthomas said:
LIDAR integration is pretty neat, but to be only functional for 500 yards is a bit moot. Wind 500 yards and in isn't going to effect the bullet that much, not enough to realize the benefits of an expensive LIDAR unit.

Neat idea, but for the LIDAR to add any real value, it needs to be effective for much further ranges then 500 yards. Most shooters can ball park wind enough to be effective for 500 yards and in without any fancy radar units.

I like where the tech is heading though, be cool to see where we are with this type of stuff 5-10 years from now.
Click to expand...

No idea where I heard it, so I might be full of shit, but I have in my head that the wind during the first third of the distance is responsible for the majority of the “wind” on the bullet. If true, the first 500 yards will be pretty useful. Or I’m full of it...
 
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#37
Aaron47pb said:
No idea where I heard it, so I might be full of shit, but I have in my head that the wind during the first third of the distance is responsible for the majority of the “wind” on the bullet. If true, the first 500 yards will be pretty useful. Or I’m full of it...
Click to expand...

Perhaps if all things are equal. I know I've been taught this, but for the life of me can't recall if that's true or not.

It makes sense as small changes in direction that effects a large distance of flight will ultimately create a bigger shift then a large change over a small distance left to travel.

In the real world it's pretty multi-factoral. The wind will be different throughout the course of travel of the projectile, how the terrain influences the wind and thus the projectile over the distance will be a changing variable, etc, etc. There's a lot going on over the distance a projectile flies, and the longer it flies, the harder it gets to predict all the variables and how they are influencing the projectile. That's were LIDAR can take out some of the uncertainty.

With all that said, I still want LIDAR that's effective for a longer range then 500 yards. Is that too much to ask :p
 
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#39
Aaron47pb said:
No idea where I heard it, so I might be full of shit, but I have in my head that the wind during the first third of the distance is responsible for the majority of the “wind” on the bullet. If true, the first 500 yards will be pretty useful. Or I’m full of it...
Click to expand...
If I recall correctly according to Litz's books near and distant winds have about the same amount of effect on bullet. Near wind because it pushes the bullet off path initially which then affects the angle for the duration of the flight. But on the second half of flight the bullet is traveling slower so the wind has more time to act on the bullet. When all is said and done the distant wind has very slightly more effect.

kthomas said:
With all that said, I still want LIDAR that's effective for a longer range then 500 yards. Is that too much to ask :p
Click to expand...

And make it under $300 ;)
 
#42
leftyk82 said:
Nick Vitalbo of nVisti made mention of this technology years back in some interviews; that being, wind-reading lasers. It's nice to see it's headed into the hands of civilian end users.
Click to expand...

Heck, there were several of us talking about it on the Hide maybe back in the 2012-2013 timeframe. LIDAR has been used for years to read wind atop large wind turbines (for obvious reasons). A buddy of mine - whose engineering doctorate studies involved electro-optics and who is now playing with LIDAR in autonomous vehicles - really opened my eyes to the potential of this stuff. It was just a matter of time before the technology made its way downstream to a civilian user.

It's been a while since I've called upon the Trijicon guys, but given their location in SE MI, it's a fair bet that we can give at least some credit to the auto industry for the electronics inside this thing.

I doubt that I'll be a first adopter of this technology - the price alone will probably keep me on the sidelines, as will the hassles in integrating this into the existing suite of external apps and weather devices. But it's a fascinating development, and I'm looking forward to being a "fast follower" for the next generation of LIDAR devices.
 
#45
Remember also that ranging distance is useful for more than shooting distances also. Hiking, target ID, mapping, triangulation, etc. Obviously they are marketing this to hunters, which could benefit in some way.

That being said, to know definitively what wind values were for the first 500 yards would still be hugely beneficial for ELR work. Consider it "freebie" wind zone.

I am going to guess and say no serial (USB/RS-232) data output. No love for us Field Firing Solutions/Coldbore/ATRAG users...
 
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#46
AIAW said:
I am going to guess and say no serial (USB/RS-232) data output. No love for us Field Firing Solutions/Coldbore/ATRAG users...
Click to expand...

Why would someone use a reliable, economical, and open/non-proprietary protocol when instead they can half-ass a Bluetooth connection that will be difficult to pair, randomly drop, work only with proprietary apps, and be obsolete by the time you buy your next new phone? This is the 21st century, man!

My experience implementing Bluetooth in consumer products mainly provided evidence that someone hates us and wants us punished for our sins.
 
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#47
Skookum said:
The ad says the rangefinder is good to 5k yards, but the LIDAR is only good to 500 yards. WTF, over?

??
Click to expand...

Having a scientifically accurate wind call out to 500 yards is more precise than any other wind determination system and in most situations would be a perfectly valid wind speed to use for longer shots in most situations.

Sure there could be a tree line 500 yards out, but the wind nearest the shooter has the greatest impact on how much deflection would occur.

At the very least, you would only be bracketing against the difference.

Where it would hurt most is if you were in an area buffeted by wind and 500 yards out was clear. You'd under estimate the wind in this case.
 
#48
PracticalTactical said:
Having a scientifically accurate wind call out to 500 yards is more precise than any other wind determination system and in most situations would be a perfectly valid wind speed to use for longer shots in most situations.

Sure there could be a tree line 500 yards out, but the wind nearest the shooter has the greatest impact on how much deflection would occur.

At the very least, you would only be bracketing against the difference.

Where it would hurt most is if you were in an area buffeted by wind and 500 yards out was clear. You'd under estimate the wind in this case.
Click to expand...

And that is what would separate the users that know how to incorporate such devices into their firing solutions versus the ones that hit a button and do exactly what it told them to.

I'd take 500 yards of "precise wind" any day if someone was kind enough to purchase one of these units for me, hehehe. Beyond 500 just becomes another wind zone to factor in.
 
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#49
PracticalTactical said:
Having a scientifically accurate wind call out to 500 yards is more precise than any other wind determination system and in most situations would be a perfectly valid wind speed to use for longer shots in most situations.

Sure there could be a tree line 500 yards out, but the wind nearest the shooter has the greatest impact on how much deflection would occur.

At the very least, you would only be bracketing against the difference.

Where it would hurt most is if you were in an area buffeted by wind and 500 yards out was clear. You'd under estimate the wind in this case.
Click to expand...
Just like every other gadget, it has a certain potential and certain down sides.

The down side being a whole new crop of plug and play "marksmen".

The paradox is that the more information we have, the less we think we have to learn. There is a certain permanence to information gathered through process and analysis.
 
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