Motivating 'Millennials'

[Maggot]

Here is an article that may help you understand the value of learning base 10: https://mathteachingstrategies.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/big-idea-the-base-ten-system/

As for what's wrong with learning the value of 9+6, nothing, except memorization isn't really learning to think. A monkey can be trained to memorize and respond with the correct answer, but they are not able to take that memorized information and apply it outside of the context in which it was "learned". The new system focuses on teaching children how to approach a problem and use reason and logic to solve it. Your example is for young children, so it looks absurd because of the simplicity of the equation. Apply the same method to 15 digit addition sets and you can start to see the value. It isn't fundamentally different than 9 over 6 "carry the 1", but it more clearly teaches "why" you "carry the 1". Memorization takes a long time to teach/learn. Children these days have to learn a great deal more information than you did before they reach college. Advanced mathematics aside, just the technical info they have to know to do their homework is astounding. My 9yo nephew had to repair some registry errors (on the tablet his school issued him) last week just to submit his assignment. Teaching them to think a problem through is faster and more valuable than teaching them to regurgitate number sets.


As for the basis of this thread, all you really need to know is that there has been a fundamental shift in the way the younger generation views work. You old guys were raised to view your work as a defining part of your character. Work hard, keep your nose clean, and everything will be fine. This generation was starting/preparing for their careers right as the rug was pulled out from under them by gen w/x. They watched as their parents nest egg, house, and retirement accounts vanished due to the poor decisions of borrowers/lenders they don't even know. What then was the value of Dad's 70hr work weeks if you can lose everything (including Dad's job) because of "market forces", outsourcing, and globalization? Your generation lived to work, theirs works to live. They would rather enjoy life than strive for a future enjoyment that may never come. Welcome to the global economy. You old guys can resume your war stories about how nobody works as hard as you did.

Good post, thanks for the article. Pardon me if I m not perfect, it was 60 years ago, but as I remember it we got most of that'grouping' and it was valuable, but worthless if one didnt have the fundamentals of adding/subtracting/multiplying/dividing. And Ill agree that with out an understanding of base 10 its tough I dont think that was the failure though. It was from not enough study on the student. I finally got a real grasp on base 10 later on when I encountered the metric system, much easier to use than ours.

As to your second paragraph, I think a healthy balance is most important.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Good post, thanks for the article. Pardon me if I m not perfect, it was 60 years ago, but as I remember it we got most of that'grouping' and it was valuable, but worthless if one didnt have the fundamentals of adding/subtracting/multiplying/dividing. And Ill agree that with out an understanding of base 10 its tough I dont think that was the failure though. It was from not enough study on the student. I finally got a real grasp on base 10 later on when I encountered the metric system, much easier to use than ours.

As to your second paragraph, I think a healthy balance is most important.

When the base ten was mentioned earlier, I thought the same thing. They are trying to turn this into the metric system.
It isn't going to work because they dont balance out like that.

As far as teaching them WHY to carry the one. It's really simple. Because it's ten or more.
Kids really are learning way more at a much earlier age than us.
Teaching overly complicated math for simple equations is a huge waste of that valuable time. Addition is addition. Knowing your base addition makes complicated numbers simple.
Bringing in another group of equations to do addition, subtraction, division and multiplication still wastes time, and adds another variable that can be missed.

My 11 yr old stepson hates common core.
I've shown him the "old ways" of doing math and it has decreased his time to complete equations.
It pisses his teacher off because he can get the work done quicker and with less BS to come up with the answer.

 

[jr81452]

When the base ten was mentioned earlier, I thought the same thing. They are trying to turn this into the metric system.
It isn't going to work because they dont balance out like that.

Oddly enough, the US has been officially on SI (the metric system) since 1875. All of our base standards are metric, and then we convert it to imperial.

 

[fx77]

^^^^^
fx77, and how exactly are they different? Is that little snowflake going to go to his or her 'safe space' when they are out of residency, misdiagnose, mis-prescribe, and kill someone? I've talked to some of these millennial docs and it's a disaster. I had one a few months ago who couldn't tell be the difference of hydromorphone, hydrocodone, oxycodone, or oxycontyn. Do you wonder why one of the reasons for the opioid problem in this country? It starts with the lose nut on the pen writing the script.

The previous method worked fine. Sure, some people got their feelings hurt, but they either got better or they got out, and that was better for the rest of us.

If you don't want to get embarrassed in front of your peers because you're an idiot, then quit being an idiot.

I am one of the Clinical Professors who today would be by the millenials, barred from teaching due to perceived hostility...they would not meet my standards, and I would crush them...Actually they report overt criticism to the Dean

 

[vh20]

Children these days have to learn a great deal more information than you did before they reach college. Advanced mathematics aside, just the technical info they have to know to do their homework is astounding.

If this is true, how come they know so much LESS?

 

[TheGerman]

Honestly, I've found basically the only way to motivate millennials to do anything is basically violence.

 

[jr81452]

If this is true, how come they know so much LESS?

Less than whom, and about what?

 

[Foul Mike]

I think some need harsh words and a boot up the ass.

 

[P-Squared]

Less than whom, and about what?

I'm not kidding on this one. I ask EVERY candidate two questions. Keep in mind these are field technicians to parts runners, it doesn't matter the get the same two questions. The first one is 'what is 20% of $14, and the second one is where is the middle of a board 4' 3/4". I can possibly see an office worker not getting number two only because they won't be working in the field every day, but a technician should be able to divide 3/4" in two in his head. Do you know that 97%, yes ninety seven percent of the candidates CAN NOT give me 20% of $14 in their head and more than half of these folks can't even give me 10%. Think about this the next time your school districts and boards of regents are out begging for more dollars through increased taxes or asking you to buy school supplies because their budgets are stretched so thin.

I saw talk earlier about how today's kids need to know so much more than we did. I'm calling a big fat BS on that. Take a look at the distribution of scores on any test, on any graduation, on any degree program and tell me why there hasn't been a normal distribution of scores for the past 20 years. There are days when I think I'm living in Lake Wobegone where all the kids are above average. If everybody is special, than no one is special.

I'm dead serious about the two questions. It's a joke around the office. We even take turns asking the questions.

 

[Switchblade]

Millennials:
Carrying the GWOT on their backs since 9-11 led by Generation X

 

[vh20]

Less than whom, and about what?

Basic Math, Government, Civics, History...pretty much anything that isn't touchy-feely. See P-Squared's post for good examples. I have about 15 or more under employment. They're good kids, good people, and I love them. But their education is...(ahem) lacking. Most of them cannot tell you who the Vice President is. None of them can do math in their heads, and most you have to tell what to input into a calculator to find what they're looking for. Not a SINGLE one has ever correctly answered who was President during the Civil War (hint - it wasn't Jimmy Carter).

What were you referring to?

 

[P-Squared]

^^^^^^ vh20, they are good people like you said, they just for the most part don't have a clue about life. Neither did I when I was about 12. I don't mean that in a bad way, just I remember when I knew it all and I was going to teach the world how to do it better.

I have a theory that today's millennials are at what used to be the 18 year old mentality at about 28 years old. Again, I don't mean this as an indictment, just an observation. At 28 years old, they know everything and they are not shy at telling you so.

Keep in mind, at one point, I never thought I would hear Jimi Hendrix on Musak. (remember Musak?)

 

[Rthur]

^^^^^^ vh20, they are good people like you said, they just for the most part don't have a clue about life. Neither did I when I was about 12. I don't mean that in a bad way, just I remember when I knew it all and I was going to teach the world how to do it better.

I have a theory that today's millennials are at what used to be the 18 year old mentality at about 28 years old. Again, I don't mean this as an indictment, just an observation. At 28 years old, they know everything and they are not shy at telling you so.

Keep in mind, at one point, I never thought I would hear Jimi Hendrix on Musak. (remember Musak?)

Muzak, I've heard some others on there also.
A damn shame.

R

 

[EddieNFL]

Less than whom, and about what?

Well, had a 21 y/o work for me (briefly) that couldn't read a tape measure. Tried to explain fractions. Waste of time.

 

[lash]

Well, had a 21 y/o work for me (briefly) that couldn't read a tape measure. Tried to explain fractions. Waste of time.

Well, that's not generational, it's an issue with that person. My father was a successful contractor that gave up the hours and money to be with his family more. Then he taught carpentry and cabinet making in trade school for 25 years.

Even as a young teen then I can remember the stories he would tell of some students that could not read a ruler or tape measure. That was almost 50 years ago. Stupidity has no generational correlation.

 

[EddieNFL]

Just more folks with personal issues, I guess.

 

[jr81452]

I don't know what to tell you guys, hire better people. Incompetence isn't age restricted. I own and run two companies (both highly detail oriented) and employ 14 gen Y personnel. I don't have any problems motivating them (born in 81' so depending on which gen chart you use, I am one). But, my lowest paid employee makes $20/hr and I toss resumes with spelling and grammar errors in the trash. Only one of my project managers had an issue with getting them to respond, but he liked to micro-manage and I let him go. I also tend to hire people from lower income backgrounds that now have degrees. I mention this because I have noticed among my peers that the ones who come from upper middle class families tend to be the media version of "millennial". YMMV

Competition and entrance requirements for degree programs have been increasing for 20+ years. They may not have practical experience, but they definitely need to perform better than previous generations if they want a spot. Take a look at the acceptance rate for top tier colleges from 1990 to now.

Perhaps some of you boomers can regale us with tales of all the technical gadgets you had to use and maintain to do your elementary school homework? I bet half or more of you couldn't tell me what a registry error is, yet alone how to fix it (without googling it first).

 

[jr81452]

Millennials:
Carrying the GWOT on their backs since 9-11 led by Generation X

Quoted for truth.

 

[tt123]

I am by no means convinced that 'millenials' are much worse than many of my generation were at that age (I'm 48), but due to the rise of 24 hour 'news', and social media, they're just much more visible than the assholes of my generation were back then.

As to work ethics I'm sad to say that, at least in my workplace, at least as many of the lazy, useless cunts we have, are about my age or older.

 

[MosesTheTank]

I am more in line with A1s ROE. My Dad never needed a manual to kick my ass back in line. We did not negotiate. It was his way or my ass. Same with meeeelinnials. Get in line or be unemployed.. It is not our job to breast them through life

Amen, brother. This is the kindest, most enlightened, and most productive approach.

I have have been hiring kids right out of college for over 20 years and there is a generational difference with millennials. Helicopter moms, absentee fathers, and countless other sea changes in the cultural gestalt have handicapped a generation. Whomever said that the complaining (older) generations raised them this way is 100% correct.

After years of battling HR (who think I'm a heartless and callous beast) and in-house counsel (who worry over the impending lawsuits that have never materialized) I have found that the best thing for everyone is to give my very best best at coaching/mentoring/whatever the fuck you want to call it, and if that doesn't work, you are fired. Loss is a character builder. To bad some didn't learn that earlier in life.

They don't get paid enough??? I haven't hired a 20-something in recent memory for less than $100K. Work ethic, a sense of pride and accomplishment, the decency to return an honest days work for a pretty fucking nice paycheck, and a sense of responsibility (to yourself, to your co-workers...) has little to do with compensation. A fifty-something should not be able to out-work a 28 year old. I don't care what your profession is that should not be a consistent trend.

And what has this approach gotten me? Too many times I have been faced with a look of shock as I told someone that I needed their security card and someone was packing their shit up right now to be delivered to them in the lobby in about 10 minutes. I have never taken such events lightly and they are usually undertaken with a heavy heart. I have also been wonderfully surprised by someone who has turned things around, more than once. Flipping a millennial to see the light is a wonderfully rewarding experience. I have a few 20-somethings that ingeniously figured out how to automate certain processes because they too got tired of the hiring and firing of shit-bag peers. I will take these innovative millennials all day long and I don't care what I have to pay them or how much praise they need. They earned it.

My experience is that the best of the millennials are at least equal to the best of any generation. There is just pathetically far fewer of them.

 

[19Scout77]

The only good reason to hire most higher educated millennials is as a favor to their exasperated parents.

 

[jrassy]

Left that out on purpose.........

Don't know if she sucks dick but she is one flexible old bag that's for sure

 

[308pirate]

A fifty-something should not be able to out-work a 28 year old. I don't care what your profession is that should not be a consistent trend..

But it's so fucking easy to do.....

 

[308pirate]

Here is an article that may help you understand the value of learning base 10: https://mathteachingstrategies.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/big-idea-the-base-ten-system/

As for what's wrong with learning the value of 9+6, nothing, except memorization isn't really learning to think. A monkey can be trained to memorize and respond with the correct answer, but they are not able to take that memorized information and apply it outside of the context in which it was "learned". The new system focuses on teaching children how to approach a problem and use reason and logic to solve it. Your example is for young children, so it looks absurd because of the simplicity of the equation. Apply the same method to 15 digit addition sets and you can start to see the value. It isn't fundamentally different than 9 over 6 "carry the 1", but it more clearly teaches "why" you "carry the 1". Memorization takes a long time to teach/learn. Children these days have to learn a great deal more information than you did before they reach college. Advanced mathematics aside, just the technical info they have to know to do their homework is astounding. My 9yo nephew had to repair some registry errors (on the tablet his school issued him) last week just to submit his assignment. Teaching them to think a problem through is faster and more valuable than teaching them to regurgitate number sets.


As for the basis of this thread, all you really need to know is that there has been a fundamental shift in the way the younger generation views work. You old guys were raised to view your work as a defining part of your character. Work hard, keep your nose clean, and everything will be fine. This generation was starting/preparing for their careers right as the rug was pulled out from under them by gen w/x. They watched as their parents nest egg, house, and retirement accounts vanished due to the poor decisions of borrowers/lenders they don't even know. What then was the value of Dad's 70hr work weeks if you can lose everything (including Dad's job) because of "market forces", outsourcing, and globalization? Your generation lived to work, theirs works to live. They would rather enjoy life than strive for a future enjoyment that may never come. Welcome to the global economy. You old guys can resume your war stories about how nobody works as hard as you did.

You fucks can't think on your feet without a computer. All your bullshit theories about new education are just that: bullshit.

 

[jr81452]

You fucks can't think on your feet without a computer. All your bullshit theories about new education are just that: bullshit.

You got the wrong guy gramps. I run a building design & engineering firm and an R&D/prototyping machine shop. Solving the problems guys like you create in the field is literally my job. But it's great that every time one of you does the math in their head and pours the foundation 2 feet out of spec, I get to hear about how "i've been doing this for 30yrs, I know what I'm doing". Everyone in your generation is just the best at everything they do, right?

 

[308pirate]

I run a building design & engineering firm and an R&D/prototyping machine shop.

You're late to the party

Solving the problems guys like you create in the field is literally my job.

You don't know shit from shinola about what I do

 

[Petrov]

I was just before the millenians, was supposed to graduate Highschool in 2000.
You know what we have been told in our state mandated career counseling?
"Get a degree any degree, in basket weaving if you want you will have a good job"
I never bought that bullshit but a whole lot of kids did.