Mount options for a '69 push feed M70 Target...UPDATED

[R Moran]

I won a Model 70 Target on the GBer the other day. It is a push feed, clip slotted, factory barrel, marksman stock. G prefix, if I'm doing my research right, is about '69 vintage. I already have two steel tube Weaver's, a T10 & T6 with the exposed turrets, so thats the plan for a scope.

I been reading here, and some other research for vintage or "era correct" scope mounts, espeically the Win 70 and FBI rifles threads...great stuff. It seems the Redfield type mount was the most common.

I'm not looking to build a clone, repro, tribute, etc. Nor am I looking to rebuild the whole gun. My thoughts are a sorta "era correct" so...70's to early 80s? Precision/tactical sorta rifle. Say, something a fledgling swat team, individual LEO, or early special ops type guy might put together. Even the "survivalists" of the day...I remember those guys.

Here are some options I'm rolling thru

-Leupold LR 1pc base STD style. ...Simplest set up, looks close enough, etc

-Vintage Redfield base and rings, even found the bottom screws(never knew they existed)..Not too hard to get into, certainly "correct" Little more money.

- Plain old Weaver bases and rings...common enough, but not a fan of the top strap on the weavers

-Precision Reflex has 2pc Pic bases...finding a set of simpler rings, could be an issue. I do have some US made Weaver grand slams...that would take advantage of modern stuff...but still look sorta right for the time.

- I found a Bausch & Lomb 1 pc "Trophy" base...looks like a weaver cross slot set up. Only found one set of B&L Trophy rings, if they are the correct ones...$75 bucks...no idea on time period....but I like the idea of a 1pc base

- I also found a 1pc dual doveetail base by Tasco(I know) and some older sculpted Burris DD rings....I like the idea of DD, and 1pc base...don't like Tasco..though it's likely older. I could do this pretty cheap if it falls apart...not out a lot of money.

I'm not much of a long range, PRS, etc guy...likely the rifle will see just some infrequent range time, punching holes, etc. Maybe a bit harder use....I doubt it. And unless my smith says it a POS, likely not gonna rebarrel, or restock..unless a McMillan drops in my lap. Maybe trade to a VariX-III tactical....

Right now I'm leaning toward the 1pc DD set up or the Vintage Redfields.....maybe both.

Any ideas or thoughts?

 

[DanGroves]

Nice find. Pretty sure your rear hole spacing will be 0.435”. I have the vintage Redfield bases if you decide to go that route. Would be “era correct”.

 

[Random Guy]

I’d speculate that the one-piece Redfield scope rail and rings were likely the most popular set-up in the 1970s on the type of bolt action rifle you have. That would be my choice if you wanted to keep it retro and in the 1970s era.

 

[Random Guy]

duplicate post.

 

[deltawiskey]

I did something similar to what you are wanting to do... I had a Leupold 1 piece base so I used it. It works ok, but with the clip slot in the receiver I could only put 1 screw in the back instead of 2 : /

 

[R Moran]

Thanks guys. The Redfield is what I was leaning to. Once I get it in, I'll post some pics.
I'll bring by my local smith, he's working on an FN PBR for me right now, and get his feel for it' condition. He might have a mount in the back. If not, I'll ping Dan..

 

[HogsLife]

I won a Model 70 Target on the GBer the other day. It is a push feed, clip slotted, factory barrel, marksman stock. G prefix, if I'm doing my research right, is about '69 vintage. I already have two steel tube Weaver's, a T10 & T6 with the exposed turrets, so thats the plan for a scope.

I been reading here, and some other research for vintage or "era correct" scope mounts, espeically the Win 70 and FBI rifles threads...great stuff. It seems the Redfield type mount was the most common.

I'm not looking to build a clone, repro, tribute, etc. Nor am I looking to rebuild the whole gun. My thoughts are a sorta "era correct" so...70's to early 80s? Precision/tactical sorta rifle. Say, something a fledgling swat team, individual LEO, or early special ops type guy might put together. Even the "survivalists" of the day...I remember those guys.

Here are some options I'm rolling thru

-Leupold LR 1pc base STD style. ...Simplest set up, looks close enough, etc

-Vintage Redfield base and rings, even found the bottom screws(never knew they existed)..Not too hard to get into, certainly "correct" Little more money.

- Plain old Weaver bases and rings...common enough, but not a fan of the top strap on the weavers

-Precision Reflex has 2pc Pic bases...finding a set of simpler rings, could be an issue. I do have some US made Weaver grand slams...that would take advantage of modern stuff...but still look sorta right for the time.

- I found a Bausch & Lomb 1 pc "Trophy" base...looks like a weaver cross slot set up. Only found one set of B&L Trophy rings, if they are the correct ones...$75 bucks...no idea on time period....but I like the idea of a 1pc base

- I also found a 1pc dual doveetail base by Tasco(I know) and some older sculpted Burris DD rings....I like the idea of DD, and 1pc base...don't like Tasco..though it's likely older. I could do this pretty cheap if it falls apart...not out a lot of money.

I'm not much of a long range, PRS, etc guy...likely the rifle will see just some infrequent range time, punching holes, etc. Maybe a bit harder use....I doubt it. And unless my smith says it a POS, likely not gonna rebarrel, or restock..unless a McMillan drops in my lap. Maybe trade to a VariX-III tactical....

Right now I'm leaning toward the 1pc DD set up or the Vintage Redfields.....maybe both.

Any ideas or thoughts?

you should build the post-64 M70 M40a1 that RTE built for Gunny Hathcock as a gift. Gen 1 Redfield Accurange 3-9 . We’ll. That what I wanted to do with mine lol

 

[HogsLife]

 

[deltawiskey]

View attachment 7674523

That's an excellent idea... now I need to find a stock like that : /
DW

 

[HogsLife]

That's an excellent idea... now I need to find a stock like that : /
DW

You “could” grab a MCMillan HTG inletted for a M70 and send it out to get the smear treatment. Gonna be a lot easier and a lot cheaper than trying find and buy a return smear and then have work done to it. If you find a real smear stock you’re gonna want to leave it as is.

I believe there’s someone one there thats doing them .

 

[j-huskey]

I did something similar to what you are wanting to do... I had a Leupold 1 piece base so I used it. It works ok, but with the clip slot in the receiver I could only put 1 screw in the back instead of 2 : /

View attachment 7674426

Did the same kind of thing, except added the correct space rear hole in the base.

Badger and NF sold one piece bases with 5 holes, to fit either set up.

Nice setup !

 

[deltawiskey]

Thanks! It is surprising how cheap you can pick up a Post 64 Model 70...
I sure would like to build it into a copy of the post-64 M70 M40a1 RTE rifle Hogslife suggested.
DW

 

[Flint62a1]

My hunting rifle is a 73 push feed M70 and I use a leupold one pice mount the redfield is pretty much the same thing.

 

[R Moran]

I just ordered a Turner sling for it, a second.

I don't want to go down the road of trying to replicate a specific rifle, like the one above. It becomes a rabbit hole running down this and that, finding the correct part, etc. If the right McMillan comes along for the right price, I ight go for it....and then it can be like a lot of gear, it just keeps getting rebuilt and upgraded. For now it'll stay in the r=factory stock and get the Weaver T10. I might get it bedded...the T10 needs to get refurbed also.

 

[HogsLife]

My hunting rifle is a 73 push feed M70 and I use a leupold one pice mount the redfield is pretty much the same thing.

I thought Chad @ LRI made a lugged LA M70 base. Be worth checking into

 

[TorF]

In 1980+/- I was sponsored by Winchester Europe and used a modified varmint M70 pushfeed in 222rem for the old Olympic event moving target, running deer, at 100m. I think Winchester owned Weaver ElPaso at the time and I was given a T10 and a T16 with target dot reticles. I still use the T16. I used Redfield two piece bases with a custom qd lever on the rear base so I easily could swap scopes. Had to use the T10 in poor light..

 

[lariat]

I did something similar to what you are wanting to do... I had a Leupold 1 piece base so I used it. It works ok, but with the clip slot in the receiver I could only put 1 screw in the back instead of 2 : /

View attachment 7674426

Holy shit that is a beautiful rifle.

 

[R Moran]

So, an update.
I got the rifle in yesterday, and brought it by Barlow custom in the SLC area. He's been pretty good to me, and had an FN PBR ready for me.

He liked the gun, but found some issues..
Crown was dinged up
Bolt would close on a no/go guage but not a field guage. Said it was safe to fire, but noticed some scoring on the bolt face.
Bolt stop had the wrong spring, making it a bit finicky in operation.
The safety was not positive
Wrong sight base on the muzzle, and the mid barrel one had been modified
Floorplate was binding/difficult to close..it sits too deep in the inlet, so it was hitting wood, when closing it., & needed shimming
Has an aftermarket trigger, he thinks its a "jaeger" or early Timney..it's not marked
He found some hairline cracks in the inletting, which he said was gonna take some effort to correct. Also evidence of uneven pressure.

He said the rifling was still good and was ready to set the barrel back a turn and re-crown it. The stock gave him pause though.

He did have the correct Redfield scope base though. So, I guess I could put a scope on it and shoot it, but I doubt the results would be satisfactory, even at my medicore level.

So, right now, I'm not sure what I want to do with it. If anyone is interested in the project....I don't think I'm up to it right now...let me know. I'll think about it for a bit, but may just put it up in the for sale section with full disclosure.........Good thing I wnet ahead and ordered a Turner sling.

 

[deltawiskey]

Dang, what a bummer that turned into... did it come with an inspection period by chance?

 

[R Moran]

Dang, what a bummer that turned into... did it come with an inspection period by chance?

Nope

 

[j-huskey]

Shoot the rifle As Is w some gold medal match.
It will probably surprise you.

Everything u described is kinda normal on those rifles and easy fix for somebody familiar w m70's.

Hairline cracking is known as the Winchester disease.
Two crossbolts, like on a magnum stock, ends the worst of that.
A devcon pillarbed, top to bottom fixes the bed issues, the floorplate issues, an easy enough fix.

Setting the barrelback and recrowning, was common back in the day, and those rifles shot well enough after.
While u do that, refinishing the bolt face gets rid of the scoring, and u headspace to the new face when u reset the barrel.
However.... that "can" lead to ejector issues. Too deep on the face will cause a problem.

Putting a 3006/270 ejector versus the correct 243/308 ejector will cause the same problem too.

The old shooters shortened the ejector plunger spring too, to make ejection less violent. Beware.

The bolt stop spring, probably got altered bc the stock fit was causing binding (and they didn't know it was binding).. that happens when the bedding gets loose and the cracking starts, and the owner keeps tightening the receiver down to stop the problem, but that starts the floorplate issues...
The Winchester stock disease.

The replaced trigger is probably the safety not being positive. As long as the rifle doesn't go off when u take the safety off...

Best to you.

I'd be very happy with this rifle and all the variances, because it's typical Winchester, and, those barrels shot really well for a long time. My original barrel like yours shot 14k rounds still under moa.
Recrown 1 at 4500, setback and recrown 2 at 7500, pulled at 14,000.
Did put it on a loaner rifle set back and recrowned again, at 14000, was an amazing barrel.

 

[R Moran]

Shoot the rifle As Is w some gold medal match.
It will probably surprise you.

Everything u described is kinda normal on those rifles and easy fix for somebody familiar w m70's.

Hairline cracking is known as the Winchester disease.
Two crossbolts, like on a magnum stock, ends the worst of that.
A devcon pillarbed, top to bottom fixes the bed issues, the floorplate issues, an easy enough fix.

Setting the barrelback and recrowning, was common back in the day, and those rifles shot well enough after.
While u do that, refinishing the bolt face gets rid of the scoring, and u headspace to the new face when u reset the barrel.
However.... that "can" lead to ejector issues. Too deep on the face will cause a problem.

Putting a 3006/270 ejector versus the correct 243/308 ejector will cause the same problem too.

The old shooters shortened the ejector plunger spring too, to make ejection less violent. Beware.

The bolt stop spring, probably got altered bc the stock fit was causing binding (and they didn't know it was binding).. that happens when the bedding gets loose and the cracking starts, and the owner keeps tightening the receiver down to stop the problem, but that starts the floorplate issues...
The Winchester stock disease.

The replaced trigger is probably the safety not being positive. As long as the rifle doesn't go off when u take the safety off...

Best to you.

I'd be very happy with this rifle and all the variances, because it's typical Winchester, and, those barrels shot really well for a long time. My original barrel like yours shot 14k rounds still under moa.
Recrown 1 at 4500, setback and recrown 2 at 7500, pulled at 14,000.
Did put it on a loaner rifle set back and recrowned again, at 14000, was an amazing barrel.

Initially we were talking about setting the barrel back and a recrown....

He had the shims for the floorplate....and wanted to do the magnum bolts.
Said he would have to make some sort of mixture to draw out the oil in the wood, that might take a multiple applications....
So, as usual the whole thing started to spiral.
I just had two guns and gear stolen, other projects, etc...so I'm not really feeling getting into another project like this.

I had considered mounting up the scope, and seeing how it goes, probably will...but...

 

[Flint62a1]

You “could” grab a MCMillan HTG inletted for a M70 and send it out to get the smear treatment. Gonna be a lot easier and a lot cheaper than trying find and buy a return smear and then have work done to it. If you find a real smear stock you’re gonna want to leave it as is.

I believe there’s someone one there thats doing them .

Just curious, who does a “smear treatment”?
Thanks
Kevin

 

[HogsLife]

Just curious, who does a “smear treatment”?
Thanks
Kevin

I though I saw some stocks Buck Holley @ C&H Precision Weapons had done awhile back.

 

[R Moran]

So, I got the rifle back from Barlow.
He mounted a Weaver T6 in a Redfield mount with 4 screw rings.
I went with the T6, cause my T10 needs to get the lens cleaned and change from a plain crosshair to maybe just a duplex.

Barlow also found a cracked hinge plate for the floorplate... luckily he found one in the shop.
He fabricated shims for the floor plate and trigger guard...said the magazine box wasnt properly supported.

Found the aperture sight mount was compressing into the stock, so that was removed.

The bolt release spring had been modified for the aftermarket trigger..he now thinks it's a Canjar. He replaced the spring and modified it differently to work.
He also properly modded the trigger guard for the aftermarket trigger.
He says the mods should extend the life of the stock, but eventually it will need the full repair.

Still waffling, but I'm in it now. I'll try to get to the range and see how it shoots. Eventually set the barrel back.
Maybe get the McMillan stock as suggested above..or the HS as it's close to the same profile as the factory.

Let's face it...I'm just sitting on the couch running the bolt pretending I'm slotting floppies in Rhodesia...

 

[HogsLife]

I won a Model 70 Target on the GBer the other day. It is a push feed, clip slotted, factory barrel, marksman stock. G prefix, if I'm doing my research right, is about '69 vintage. I already have two steel tube Weaver's, a T10 & T6 with the exposed turrets, so thats the plan for a scope.

I been reading here, and some other research for vintage or "era correct" scope mounts, espeically the Win 70 and FBI rifles threads...great stuff. It seems the Redfield type mount was the most common.

I'm not looking to build a clone, repro, tribute, etc. Nor am I looking to rebuild the whole gun. My thoughts are a sorta "era correct" so...70's to early 80s? Precision/tactical sorta rifle. Say, something a fledgling swat team, individual LEO, or early special ops type guy might put together. Even the "survivalists" of the day...I remember those guys.

Here are some options I'm rolling thru

-Leupold LR 1pc base STD style. ...Simplest set up, looks close enough, etc

-Vintage Redfield base and rings, even found the bottom screws(never knew they existed)..Not too hard to get into, certainly "correct" Little more money.

- Plain old Weaver bases and rings...common enough, but not a fan of the top strap on the weavers

-Precision Reflex has 2pc Pic bases...finding a set of simpler rings, could be an issue. I do have some US made Weaver grand slams...that would take advantage of modern stuff...but still look sorta right for the time.

- I found a Bausch & Lomb 1 pc "Trophy" base...looks like a weaver cross slot set up. Only found one set of B&L Trophy rings, if they are the correct ones...$75 bucks...no idea on time period....but I like the idea of a 1pc base

- I also found a 1pc dual doveetail base by Tasco(I know) and some older sculpted Burris DD rings....I like the idea of DD, and 1pc base...don't like Tasco..though it's likely older. I could do this pretty cheap if it falls apart...not out a lot of money.

I'm not much of a long range, PRS, etc guy...likely the rifle will see just some infrequent range time, punching holes, etc. Maybe a bit harder use....I doubt it. And unless my smith says it a POS, likely not gonna rebarrel, or restock..unless a McMillan drops in my lap. Maybe trade to a VariX-III tactical....

Right now I'm leaning toward the 1pc DD set up or the Vintage Redfields.....maybe both.

Any ideas or thoughts?

I went with a Redfield base and Redfield medium 1” rings (single bottom screw caps)

hit up Justin at pre64win.com and he’ll get you lined out with the proper base / rings

 

[deltawiskey]

I went with a Redfield base and Redfield medium 1” rings.

hit up Justin at pre64win.com and he’ll get you lined out with the proper base / rings

View attachment 7698038

View attachment 7698039

Outstanding set-up! I wish I could get my hands on one of those scopes...
DW

 

[HogsLife]

Outstanding set-up! I wish I could get my hands on one of those scopes...
DW

Thanks man. that one kind of fell In my lap. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for one for you tho

 

[pitspitr]

I went with a Redfield base and Redfield medium 1” rings (single bottom screw caps)



View attachment 7698039

That is the route I went on my Dec. '64 Model 70. It's a tack driver

 

[R Moran]

I was finally able to get the M70 Target to the range. Went to an indoor range with a 100yd tunnel.
After using some left over hunting ammo and some American Eagle ball..I was not feeling good about it.
Then I shot this group with 168FGMM....
Admittedly, it's a cherry picked 5 shot group, but..I'm not the precision rifle shooter that the guys here are, and..the shooting position and dark tunnel made it more difficult. Nor the fixed 6x weaver T6
I'll see what I can do outside, but the weather is getting rough.
But, it does look like that the gun has promise. even with out the gunsmith work.
Now, to send the T10 off for work....
Well, I gotta see what happens with the jab mandate

 

[pmclaine]

168 FGMM shoots good in mine.

If you can get some Sig 175 30-06 give that a try. It shot better than the 168.

Mine is a 24 inch Douglas 1-10

The T10 is a fantastic scope. Im sure 6 is also but go up to the 10.

Keep telling myself to send my T-10 out to Cali to have a mil dot reticle put in it.

 

[R Moran]

168 FGMM shoots good in mine.

If you can get some Sig 175 30-06 give that a try. It shot better than the 168.

Mine is a 24 inch Douglas 1-10

The T10 is a fantastic scope. Im sure 6 is also but go up to the 10.

Keep telling myself to send my T-10 out to Cali to have a mil dot reticle put in it.

The T6 has a Duplex reticle, my T10 has a plain crosshair. It also has some shmutz on the interior lens. I'll send it to that place that blueprints them, and get a new reticle. Either the Mil Dot or a Duplex with something like a 1/2 MOA dot.
The plan for now...is to send the scope out, when I get that back, I'll probably have the barrel set back, etc and the T10 mounted. Then I'll think about what to do with the stock. ...that's if I'm still employed..lol

Don't think I'll do any serious shooting at the tunnel...wanted to shoot some of the 22s there, but that lighting just sux...you don't know where you are in the scope.

ETA: Just want to reiterate, I'm not a hardcore longrange/precision/high ground shooter like the guys here, but I like getting the best info I can

 

[pmclaine]

The T6 has a Duplex reticle, my T10 has a plain crosshair. It also has some shmutz on the interior lens. I'll send it to that place that blueprints them, and get a new reticle. Either the Mil Dot or a Duplex with something like a 1/2 MOA dot.
The plan for now...is to send the scope out, when I get that back, I'll probably have the barrel set back, etc and the T10 mounted. Then I'll think about what to do with the stock. ...that's if I'm still employed..lol

Don't think I'll do any serious shooting at the tunnel...wanted to shoot some of the 22s there, but that lighting just sux...you don't know where you are in the scope.

ETA: Just want to reiterate, I'm not a hardcore longrange/precision/high ground shooter like the guys here, but I like getting the best info I can

Let me know how the scope experience works out...forget the name of the place but seems to be run now by the daughter of the man that started the business....sound familiar? Few guys at M40rifle had mil dots put in their T series scopes.

I ran my T-10n on an M40 in .308...I see photobucket has stolen my photos.....

It sits as a spare now in my gun cabinet.

 

[pitspitr]

...forget the name of the place but seems to be run now by the daughter of the man that started the business....sound familiar?

Parson Scope Service?

I really like Iron Sight Inc.

 

[pmclaine]

Parson Scope Service?

I really like Iron Sight Inc.

Nope.

This

Optical Services Company hot rod shop accuracy shooters

Check out http://targetshooteroptics.com! established in1983 by Bill Ackerman and continues today specializing in accuracy, detail and performance improvements for the precision shooter telescopes

targetshooteroptics.com

 

[R Moran]

Nope.

This

Optical Services Company hot rod shop accuracy shooters

Check out http://targetshooteroptics.com! established in1983 by Bill Ackerman and continues today specializing in accuracy, detail and performance improvements for the precision shooter telescopes

targetshooteroptics.com

I sent them an email for a estimate

 

[pmclaine]

I think I sent them an email once and never heard back.

You are motivating me to call them and just send it off as it sits now unused.

with a mil dot it would make an already fantastic scope way mo-betta.

 

[deltawiskey]

I think I sent them an email once and never heard back.

You are motivating me to call them and just send it off as it sits now unused.

with a mil dot it would make an already fantastic scope way mo-betta.

I have one doing the same thing, sitting unused... if you send yours in let me know how it goes.
DW

 

[R Moran]

If I dont get a response I'll call them on my day off.

 

[pmclaine]

I have one doing the same thing, sitting unused... if you send yours in let me know how it goes.
DW

I want to use it. Certainly more capable than my green M40 Leupolds and I think they are my favorite scopes to shoot because I just do everything off the reticle.

If I decide to take the Unertl off my M70 I had thought about a green Leupold but the T10 with dots would be the absolute shizzzle.

 

[pitspitr]

I sent them an email for a estimate

Me too and I never heard back from them. I eventually had a response from Parson's, but by then had decided to use Iron Sight and haven't regretted it.