Moving from.308 to 6.5

[TigernLionGSP]

Completed the Purgatory Challenge last weekend and really enjoyed it. I carried a DPMS .308 heavy barrel ( about killed me ) I am looking at going 6.5, I plan in selling the DPMS and going light. I have another .308(SIG 716) I have quite a few PMAG and would like to find a rifle chassis that I can use my PMAGs in . I know Magpul make stock, but who else does. any input would be great thanks.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

Ruger Precision Rifle can use SR25 mags.

The AICS mags are a better option for bolt action rifles in most cases.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

I should said I am looking at the tikka and Remington not a big fan of the Ruger The action is grittie

 

[longshot2000]

Everybody has a right to their thinking an opinions. I have been a .308 shooter for a while, as well as a 5.56 and .300WM. I am new to the 6.5 game, and I see the attraction, both in terms of the Grendel and the Creedmoor. In fact, the Grendel is light years above the 5.56, whereas the Creedmoor, in my opinion, is only a slight improvement upon the 7.62/.308.

I would not give up on the .308, just expand your options, and the the 6.5mm. It is not that one is better than the other. I like them both, but for different targets, wind, and distances. Then there is lethality, which I still think the .308 has a small edge.

 

[mzvarner]

I made the switch to 6.5 in my first precision rifle, and honestly I regret it. Sure it is a nice round with some benefits. But, unless your lucky, or dont reload, your going to be hard pressed for components. Your pretty much fighting the entire nation for H4350. I just saw some in stock locally for the first time in 18 months, and the store had a 1# limit per customer on it. Bullets are a little better, but not much. Fortunately I had 2 barrels spun up at the same time, so I may through the 308 barrel back on, until things cool off. Something to think about.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

If your interest is going light, there are 260 Remington Tikka T3 CTRs on closeout for around $700, and KRG has the Bravo chassis coming out in a few months. That would be a handy little setup that gets you into a good 6.5 mm that will be light enough to ruck around with. The Tikka also has a pretty decent amount of aftermarket parts these days.

I would just commit to getting a couple AICS style mags. Magpul even makes some now that are around $40. You only really need 2 for any of the precision rifle matches I have been to. There are not hardly any bolt action chassis designed for SR25 mags.

Another decent option if you are looking to save weight and money might be the Bergara B14 HMR.

 

[Sendit6.5]

I should said I am looking at the tikka and Remington not a big fan of the Ruger The action is grittie

You couldn't pay me to take a new Remington these days. If you're going to get a factory rifle, get the Tikka - you won't regret it! I love the 6.5, I'll admit to being a fanboy. I've got 4 and planning another. When I want to push a .30 pill, I shoot my 300wm. With a suppressor it's not much more recoil than a .308 with a LOT better performance. Different strokes for different folks but sure seems like more people moving AWAY from .308 than moving towards it. Just sayin.


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[JSTARSZ]

Everybody has a right to their thinking an opinions. I have been a .308 shooter for a while, as well as a 5.56 and .300WM. I am new to the 6.5 game, and I see the attraction, both in terms of the Grendel and the Creedmoor. In fact, the Grendel is light years above the 5.56, whereas the Creedmoor, in my opinion, is only a slight improvement upon the 7.62/.308.

I would not give up on the .308, just expand your options, and the the 6.5mm. It is not that one is better than the other. I like them both, but for different targets, wind, and distances. Then there is lethality, which I still think the .308 has a small edge.

I have access to a friends farm that we can get out to 1400 yards and we have it set-up for different distances from 400-1400 yards. I often bring out the 308's (175 Sierra's) with the 6.5mm Creedmoors (140 ELD). The 308 within 900 yards is well within its capability; however, the environmental issues start take effect. When the wind kicks up to 7-10mph and beyond you have to be on your game to get hits. The 6.5mm Creedmoor makes it feel a whole lot easier to get those ting-on-steel hits. When you get out to a 1000 and beyond is where the Creedmoor really starts to shine.

At 900 yards the 308 is at 9 mils and 1 mil with wind at 5 mph. The 6.5mm Creedmoor is at 6.3mils and .8 for wind. At 1000 yards the 308 is at 11.2mils and the 6.5 is at 7.5mils. At this point the 6.5mm runs away from the 308.
Just for some perspective: it was at 1100' elevation, 70 degrees, 45% humidity, Density Altitude of 1955.

I will never get rid of my 308's completely as I have so many loading components, and quite frankly, I like the challenge shooting them at distance; but, I have to say the 6.5mm Creedmoor makes it a whole lot easier at those distances than the 308 when I need to get consistent hits.

I love the 308 but it isn't a 6.5mm nor 6mm Creedmoor and I can now say that after spending a lot of time shooting beyond 900-1000 yards.

 

[Upstate43]

I have access to a friends farm that we can get out to 1400 yards and we have it set-up for different distances from 400-1400 yards. I often bring out the 308's (175 Sierra's) with the 6.5mm Creedmoors (140 ELD). The 308 within 900 yards is well within its capability; however, the environmental issues start take effect. When the wind kicks up to 7-10mph and beyond you have to be on your game to get hits. The 6.5mm Creedmoor makes it feel a whole lot easier to get those ting-on-steel hits. When you get out to a 1000 and beyond is where the Creedmoor really starts to shine.

At 900 yards the 308 is at 9 mils and 1 mil with wind at 5 mph. The 6.5mm Creedmoor is at 6.3mils and .8 for wind. At 1000 yards the 308 is at 11.2mils and the 6.5 is at 7.5mils. At this point the 6.5mm runs away from the 308.
Just for some perspective: it was at 1100' elevation, 70 degrees, 45% humidity, Density Altitude of 1955.

I will never get rid of my 308's completely as I have so many loading components, and quite frankly, I like the challenge shooting them at distance; but, I have to say the 6.5mm Creedmoor makes it a whole lot easier at those distances than the 308 when I need to get consistent hits.

I love the 308 but it isn't a 6.5mm nor 6mm Creedmoor and I can now say that after spending a lot of time shooting beyond 900-1000 yards.

Solid points on the ballistic advantages 6.5 has over .308, but I think longshot was making the point that .308 has certain lethality advantages over 6.5 especially at longer distances. It's a pretty versatile round (people have used heavier .308 loads to take down moose).

Between that and its extensive logistical backing within both military and Law enforcement, it's a pretty useful round to have, even if there are others that are a little easier to shoot at distance.

Not sure the lethality aspect truly matters for someone just plinking steel, but it's still something to be aware of.


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[longshot2000]

Solid points on the ballistic advantages 6.5 has over .308, but I think longshot was making the point that .308 has certain lethality advantages over 6.5 especially at longer distances. It's a pretty versatile round (people have used heavier .308 loads to take down moose).

Between that and its extensive logistical backing within both military and Law enforcement, it's a pretty useful round to have, even if there are others that are a little easier to shoot at distance.

Not sure the lethality aspect truly matters for someone just plinking steel, but it's still something to be aware of.


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That is exactly correct. The 6.5, especially the Creedmoor is showing some great results, and JSTARZ shows how both the drop and wind resistance for the 6.5CM are superior beyond 800 yards. The What I have yet to see is the comparison (nor have I really looked to research) of the terminal energy of each projectile at various yardage. I will hazzard a guess that up to about 800 yards the 175gr .308 wins. It might win at 1,000 yards, for that matter. In my shooting, I think of the 5.56 as effective to 400 yards, I pick up the 7.62 from 300 to 900, and the .300 WM from 600 to 1,400. The 7.62 would not be my weapon of choice at 1,000 yards anyway. I think there is a place for the 6.5CM, and I don't shoot it today, but I will, and there is no doubt to the better range and better performance in the wind. I just think in all categories that you want a round to perform, the .308 still holds its own.

While I never expect that lethality would be needed in my shooting (I am not a hunter), it is the objective of my shooting and training, and not to hit paper or steel, although both are great fun and great training.

The US Military is currently looking at the various 6.5mm rounds and ammo, and I predict that DOD will choose a 6.5CM weapon or weapons very soon. And, while the 6.5CM does provide alot to be investigated and admired, the real 6.5mm that out-performs is the 6.5 Grendel. When you put the 6.5G next to the 5.56mm, I don't think there is any distance that the 6.5G does not out-perform the 5.56mm projectile: drop, drift, terminal energy, maximum range, etc. That is the sleeper.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I sold off my 308's back around 2002, 2003, and replaced that with a Savage 10FP .260, rebarreling it with a longer L-W barrel about 2003. Been shooting it off and on since, including a couple of years doing 1000yd F Open at Williamsport/Bodines in PA I guess around 2005.

Then last Autumn I came around full circle, buying a Savage 11VT .308 (my second 11VT, the other is my .223), Never fired it, but upgraded both 11VT's with Choate Tactical stocks (pretty nice, not the Plaster thing), and mounting up Mueller 8-32x44 Target Dot scopes. Shot the .223 lat Spring at Ben Avery Range outside Phoenix, and it performed a lot better than I had expected a box stock Savage .223 to do at 600yd in F T/R. I am never gonna need to worry about getting a big head with the Savage, but for an older duffer like myself, I can at least compete and get back inside the furball.

Anyhoo, I put together some test loads, 308 with PPU Brass, BR-2's, IMR-4064 (my older 42.2gr load I used with 175SMK's), and 178 ELD-X.. The damned UTG rings wouldn't hold the scope against recoil, and I took off the scope, replacing it with an older Tasco 6-24x42 in medium Signature Zee rings, and then mounted up a pair of extra tall Signature Zee 30mm's direct to the Pic rail on the new Stag 6 Super Varminter Upper that is part of my new Model 6 Rifle kit (the stripped Lower is for next month's budget), and set up the Mueller in these rings. Until then, I can swap the new upper onto my older Stag 6 (which is now my Granddaugter's) and get some trigger time until the Lower gets pieced together.

Still haven't gotten any reliable results with the load due to the rings issue, but will readdress the load next time out. At least, I'm back in the stream and getting my beak wet again.

I had dumped the .308 because I was shooting 1000 and the .308 was just making the distance at 800ft ASL; but now I've picked it back up because I now live at 4800ft ASL. I figure that gives it a whole new lease on life at the longer distances.

Greg

 

[morganlamprecht]

I made the switch to 6.5 in my first precision rifle, and honestly I regret it. Sure it is a nice round with some benefits. But, unless your lucky, or dont reload, your going to be hard pressed for components. Your pretty much fighting the entire nation for H4350. I just saw some in stock locally for the first time in 18 months, and the store had a 1# limit per customer on it. Bullets are a little better, but not much. Fortunately I had 2 barrels spun up at the same time, so I may through the 308 barrel back on, until things cool off. Something to think about.

you can get a 140 going 2700+ w/ 24" barrels pretty easily with h4831sc, imr4451, and even h1000...others are using the new RL powders like 16 and 26, as well, but i havent used them personally

you arent stuck with h4350 in a Creed

 

[mzvarner]

you can get a 140 going 2700+ w/ 24" barrels pretty easily with h4831sc, imr4451, and even h1000...others are using the new RL powders like 16 and 26, as well, but i havent used them personally

you arent stuck with h4350 in a Creed

Thanks for the update. I will admit, I have not looked too hard into other powders because when I got into this rifle, the Creed was fairly new and everyone wanted H4350. I have some H4831SC on hand for my 270, Im gonna load it up and give it a go!

 

[Steel head]

4451 is right on the heels of H4350 in the 6.5's

For hunting I'd probably go 308.
For steel and target shooting without a doubt 6.5.
My 260 is death to coyotes well past 1000 yards

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I load H-4350 in the .260, and have done so since back around 2002, when I was still shooting with 24" barrel. I'd tried H-4831, and while it was very accurate, it showed a moderate velocity deficit, which is why I passed on it.

But soon after, I went with a 28" barrel, staying with the H-4350, getting 2850fps with 140/142gr bullets. Now, I really think the H-4831's velocities sagged because the barrel needed to be longer. I'm suspecting that my current load development projecty with the 143 ELD-X probably needs to have another powder tested alongside the H-4350, and that powder should be H-4831.

Greg

 

[MarinePMI]

Surprised you're not including Hybrid 100V as well...

 

[502Chevelle]

Try some 4451. My understanding is that it has the same chemical compound as h4350, but it has a slightly different grain structure, for a very slight difference in burn rate. I got this info from a Hodgdon bulletin, so it's not simply made up. 41 gr of 4451 with a 140 eldm rocks it pretty hard. Velocity is very slightly lower than h4350. Shot this today doing load dev. Two other groups that were slightly larger backed it up. Will play with seating depth now to see if it will tighten up a little. These were .010" off.

 

[TheGerman]

People with Barrett MRAD's don't have these kind of dilemmas.

 

[T J]

Surprised you're not including Hybrid 100V as well...

I really liked the Velocity 100v provide me but I could never get it to shoot for me, I finally gave up and went to 4350. 100v got the 136 Scenar L over 2900 but I couldn't get it under 1moa... WTF... I have no idea. I probably could have switched powder and played with seating depth more than I already had but... I admit I got frustrated and grabbed the 4350, tossed 42.0grns in the case and ta-da... dammit.


t

 

[supercorndogs]

Surprised you're not including Hybrid 100V as well...

4000MR also, 44.9 got me 2820 with the 140 a max, 45.7 of H4831sc got me 2790 with the 143 ELD. in a 26" criterion. 45.4 of 4831sc only gives me 2686 in my new 23" sporter barrel.

 

[Steel head]

Surprised you're not including Hybrid 100V as well...

I’ve had good results with H100v just leave some headroom like R17 cause it can get spooky when hot.

 

[supercorndogs]

I’ve had good results with H100v just leave some headroom like R17 cause it can get spooky when hot.

4000mr does also, my load does not have enough head room for long strings.

 

[MarinePMI]

I think this goes back to the process when shooting, as well (like leaving the bolt up and back, and thus the round out of the chamber) until on target. Only after being on target, do you chamber and close the bolt, thereby leaving the round in a hot chamber for less time and negating some of the climb in pressures associated with the more sensitive powders and a smoking hot chamber/barrel.

 

[dannySH]

I'm having excellent results with 41.4 gr of IMR 4451 with the 140 gr ELD-M on my two 6.5CM rifles, velocity is a bit slow (2730 fps) but accuracy at 100 yards is sub 1/2 MOA.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

thanks for all the inputs
I think I am going to go with a T3 24" SS 6.5 and a Bravo chassis system, as soon as I can sell my .308 AR10 boat anchor

 

[TonyTheTiger]

When you put the 6.5G next to the 5.56mm, I don't think there is any distance that the 6.5G does not out-perform the 5.56mm projectile: drop, drift, terminal energy, maximum range, etc. That is the sleeper.

Ummm, no. Is this something you tested or just what the fanboys at 65Grendel forum told you. I like the Grendel more than the average guy but energy is the only place I've seen it significantly beat a good heavy 223 load.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

sold the boat anchor this weekend, A friend said I should look at the Savages 110 ba Evolutions about the same money with more Calibers to pick from.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

sold the boat anchor this weekend, A friend said I should look at the Savages 110 ba Evolutions about the same money with more Calibers to pick from.

Build quality wise the Savage is a turd compared to the Tikka. The Tikka will also most likely shoot better. I'd buy a T3X CTR in 6.5 and never look back, you can always upgrade to a chassis down the road and sell the CTR stuff if you so choose.

 

[BurnOut]

People with Barrett MRAD's don't have these kind of dilemmas.

Is that because they can't buy conversion barrels, so they're stuck with whatever chambering was available when the rifle was purchased thereby eliminating the dilemma?

;-)

 

[JePhyllis]

OK. I am a little confused whether I should sell my 308 barrel now....

 

[TigernLionGSP]

Ok I will throw another making in the mix The Howa can't find to much on them. I know the barrels and actions are made in Japan and Howa has been around for about 100 yrs . I have played with the actions a lot better then a Ruger and close to a Tikka a good in the middle rifle.

 

[demolitionman]

100v Showed lots of promise in my 65 Creed, however I settled on h4350. The pressure signs came on real quick with 100v so watch for that. I'm really suprised more guys aren't using it. Seemed accurate enough with both 140 amax and 140vld.

 

[myronman3]

just to add a point that some raised about the lethality the 6.5's. now the creedmoor might be new, but the swede has been around way longer than i have. they hunt moose with them. the 6.5 will out penetrate a 30-06 when you use the 160gr. bullets. anyone thinking the 6.5's aren't lethal, is thinking DEAD WRONG (pun intended).

i will go on record as saying i am NOT a 6.5 fanboy; i once thought it was the titties right up until the 6.5 cm went viral. and as someone else pointed out, i dont like competing with the rest of the nation for components.

yall just wait until the 7mm creedmoor rears it's head.....then that will be the next gee-whiz-bang phenomena.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

Still looking to see what I want, I talked to a good rifle builder yesterday and he suggested a 6 mm. I looking for something that will be able put it out there to 1500-1600ish. repeatable same grouping.
should I look at the 300 WM ?

 

[carlm338]

Still looking to see what I want, I talked to a good rifle builder yesterday and he suggested a 6 mm. I looking for something that will be able put it out there to 1500-1600ish. repeatable same grouping.
should I look at the 300 WM ?

If I were in your shoes, I would call Mile High and talk to either Adam or Mike (or both). See what they would suggest.

 

[Robo]

Calling Mile High is a good suggestion especially with Black Friday sales coming up. I talked with them today and they said they're going to have sales on almost everything. They might even talk you into an AI.....

 

[308pirate]

I have another .308(SIG 716) I have quite a few PMAG and would like to find a rifle chassis that I can use my PMAGs in

This whole thing went down a caliber tangent, and I don't think you understood the first answer your got about your original question.

To re-state, no one makes a bolt gun stock or chassis in any caliber that accepts AR-10 style PMAGS except Ruger (RPR). All the other chassis and DBMs out there are only compatible with AICS-type magazines. The two magazine types are not interchangeable because their latching systems are completely different

Ruger, in a stroke of genius, designed the RPR with two magazine latching systems so it can use both SR25 and AICS magazines.

 

[TheGerman]

Is that because they can't buy conversion barrels, so they're stuck with whatever chambering was available when the rifle was purchased thereby eliminating the dilemma?

;-)

Not at all. We just don't succumb to flavor of the month calibers.

MRAD conversions have everything you need unless you're wanting to shoot your 27-236 Weeblewobble Rex rounds.

I haven't looked, are the conversions getting harder to find or something?

 

[Conrad]

First off, congrats on completing that challenge, looks awesome! I read the rules and it says one guy runs a bolt gun of any cartridge up to 300 WM and the Semi-auto guy has to stick to 223 or 308. So does that mean you plan on being the bolt gunner? If not you’re limited to 223 and 308 and I would just get a proof barrel to lighten up my AR. Maybe even consider going to 223 and proof barrel with heavies. That would lighten things up considerably.

Now if if you’re going to run the bolt gun next time then I wouldn’t limit yourself to your PMAGs I would look hard at putting whatever you get into the MPA lite chassis. 6.5 Creed is an easy choice and can get you to extended ranges, especially some of the new ELD bullets. After that your budget will define how much more weight you want to drop. Namely getting a proof barrel, but a Tikka CTR in an MPA lite could be a good start on a budget. Additionally, keeping the barrel a little shorter will reduce the amount of torque on your arm while carrying it, depending on carry method during the event.

 

[bab029]

thanks for all the inputs
I think I am going to go with a T3 24" SS 6.5 and a Bravo chassis system, as soon as I can sell my .308 AR10 boat anchor

That will be a hammer. Buy with confidence.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

With all the new rifle coming out now and since Shot Show is next weekend. I am now looking at the new Christensen Arms .300 WINMAG in the carbon stock and barrel. I am looking for a rifle that I can take hunting big game Moose, elk and etc. I know the 6.5 is good but if I am shooting 1200 to 1600 yards I to hit with a brick not a pebble. ideals welcome

 

[308pirate]

the Creedmoor, in my opinion, is only a slight improvement upon the 7.62/.308.

Luckily, external ballistics is a quantifiable science and requires no opinion to measure the difference between two cartridges. The differences, beyond 800 or so yards, are more than a slight improvement in favor of a 6.5 Creedmoor. Or in favor of a .260 Remington, for that matter.

 

[trob_205]

With all the new rifle coming out now and since Shot Show is next weekend. I am now looking at the new Christensen Arms .300 WINMAG in the carbon stock and barrel. I am looking for a rifle that I can take hunting big game Moose, elk and etc. I know the 6.5 is good but if I am shooting 1200 to 1600 yards I to hit with a brick not a pebble. ideals welcome

I’d say neither if you’re planning on killing moose or elk at those distances.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

I’d say neither if you’re planning on killing moose or elk at those distances.

why not

 

[JeremiahCarlson]

Ruger Precision Rifle can use SR25 mags.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

Been a while;
what about the 224 val round. very fast, great distance and use a AR15 platform and ammo isn't bad on the wallet.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I’d say neither if you’re planning on killing moose or elk at those distances.

Agreed.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

Well I went with a HOWA 300 wm in a MDT chassis with a NF 7x35 glass. not planning on humping it around. Just shooting it for enjoyment.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

update
got the 300 WM but went with 5 x25 NF MIL X and got a 6.5 creed in a AR 10 being built, going to the Guardian Zombie shoot in Nov at GTI in SC

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I agree because you've gotten what you wanted, based on a variety of suggestions; an informed decision.

Best fortune with these options, and please keep us informed on the results. We all have a stake in your success.

Greg