Moving on Need ideas on larger caliber small frame 6.8/grendel/ARC LWRC, DD, Wilson, Custom

[chadwickz71]

Those of you who haven't seen my other post with my Larue PredaTar early, im looking to move away from .308 large frames if i can. Im looking for a rifle with lower weight of a small frame and decent knock down like a .308. Obvoisly you guys earlier got me looking into 6.8spc, grendal, and ARC. I don't have a lot of experience with AR's like i do bechrest bolt guns, so im wanting to try to land a complete rifle. What we do is spot/stalk hogs in open fields with thermals... Thats it! Lightweight, short, good knockdown 100yrds and under. I have no desire to shoot past 200yd, in the day i have bolt guns for that, and at night honestly its dumb to engage hogs at that range, always better to play the wind and stalk, thats what makes it fun.

ALL SUPPRESSED! We never shoot without. I have 3 omegas. 30 and 36's

I've called so far 3 different companies and have one more to call tomorrow.

1. Wilson combat Ultralight Ranger 16" $2650 6.8spc under 5lb 11oz. Wilson tech says he recommends i have them build this gun and let them put in a sentry 7 at the shop before they ship it, no change to buffers/springs, then i can fine tune it with my Can. He said it should be fine but says sentry 7 would be for insurance. 3wk turnaround.

2. Daniel Defense 6.8 18" $2200 in stock gun has No adjustable block. Tech there says no bullshit with their rifle. put my suppressor on and go shoot. i asked him, Well your very convincing... he said it will shoot suppressed or not the way it is. BUT if i have trouble they have options to help me fix it....

3. LoneStar Amory in Ft worth texas. 90 day turnaround would build ground up custom TX4 rifle, triggertech, bartlien, adjustable block, billet lower, forged upper i think is what he said. $2900-ish THey would test the gun and tune it for the 6.8, grendel, or ARC, then give it to me. No bullshit, bring it back if i have trouble

4. LWRC six8 16" barrel 6.7lbs, Specifically made around the custom pmag for reliability, comes standard with 2 position Block that you can flip wit your fingers.
I will call them tomorrow, and see what they say and Leadtime of rifle.
Also i am calling Todd Huey with Huey outdoors, anyone who knows this guy he is a good dude. he shot this gun a while back and i think now went back to a 308. I've bought a lot of thermal gear from him and will see if he'll give me a real life review. This guy has probably killed more pigs then most of us combined on this forum.


Anybody have any of these guns or have some input, I'll post up the info from LWRC and Todd tomorrow.

i don't really have a budget, just want to get it right this time after i sort of fell out of love with this Larue. If i do go 6.8. I do like the idea of building a 12" barrel and sending in my stamp for next year. that would be probably the perfect setup for me then.

 

[LRRPF52]

You have a lot more factory ammo options with 6.5 Grendel ranging from Federal’s 90gr TNT up to 130gr. I shoot my 12” Grendel suppressed for the past 6 years, using the Bootleg Adjustable Gas Carrier, and it runs very well without hiccups.

Lone Star Armory in Texas builds higher-end 6.5 Grendels as well. Wilson Combat also builds Grendels. With 6.5 Grendel, you’ll have the most versatile projectile weight selection in factory ammo, with no real disturbance to your sight picture. It’s the most energy you can put on-target without loss of sight picture, and I’ve been shooting gas guns of various chamberings since the 1980s.

There are also ammunition-manufacturers in Texas who make factory 6.5 Grendel ammo.

90gr TNT kills hogs very nicely, as does 100gr Nosler BT, 115gr Barnes VOR-TX, 120gr PPU MPT, 120gr Federal Fusion, 120gr Barnes TSX, 123gr Hornady SST, 123gr Hornady ELD-M, 129gr SST.

Here’s the 2020 factory ammo list. Several more loads have been added since then:

6.5 Grendel 2020 Factory Ammo List

Alexander Arms
120gr Barnes TSX HPBT
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
123gr Lapua Scenar HPBT
129gr Hornady SST
130gr Swift Scirocco

Barnaul
100gr FMJ
110gr FMJ

Barnes New for 2020
115gr VOR-TX TTSX Boat Tail

Copper Creek
120gr Barnes TAC-TX
123gr ELD-M
130gr Berger VLD Hunting
130gr Berger Hybrid
130gr Hornady ELD-M
6.5 Grendel load development pack Stage I
6.5 Grendel load development pack Stage II

Custom Reloads of Dallas (This is new manufactured ammo with new brass loaded on single stage press using a Sartorius to within .02gr.)
123gr A-MAX
123gr Scenar

Defender Ammunition
107gr Tipped SMK
123gr SMK


Federal
90gr TNT American Eagle
120gr Match American Eagle
120gr Fusion
130gr Berger OTM Gold Medal Match

Fort Scott Munitions
123gr TUI (New for 2020)

Hendershot's
95gr Hornady V-MAX
100gr ELD-M
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
100gr Nosler Partition
100gr Sierra HP
100gr Barnes TAC-TX
100gr Barnes TTSX

107gr Sierra Matck King
107gr Sierra Tipped Match King

120gr TTSX
120gr TAC-TX
120gr Berger Match TGT
120gr Hornady ELD-M
120gr Hornady GMX
120gr Lapua Scenar-L
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip

123gr Hornady ELD-M
123gr Nosler Custom Competition
123gr Hornady SST
125gr Nosler Partition

130gr Berger VLD Match Hunting
130gr Berger AR Hybrid Tactical
130gr Nosler Accubond

Hornady
123gr BTHP American Gunner (200rd box from Sportsman's Warehouse)
123gr SST Custom
123gr ELD-M Black
123gr FMJ Frontier New for 2020

HSM
107gr SMK
120gr Sierra Pro Hunter
123gr SMK
130gr Berger Match Hunting VLD Trophy Gold

Maker
85gr Overwatch Field TREX New for 2020

McCourt Munitions
120gr Berger

Night Ops
90gr TNT
90gr Varmagedon
95gr V-MAX
100gr Sierra JHP
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
100gr Hornady ELD-M

Nosler
90gr Varmageddon
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip New for 2020
123gr Custom Competition
129gr Accubond Long Range Trophy Grade

Precision Firearms
100gr A-MAX
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
100gr Barnes TTSX
100gr Lapua Scenar HPBT
107gr Sierra Match King HPBT
108gr Lapua Scenar

120gr A-MAX
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
120gr Barnes TTSX
120gr Nosler E-Tip
120gr Lapua Scenar-L

123gr Hornady ELD-M
123gr Sierra Match King HPBT
123gr Lapua Scenar HPBT

123gr Hornady AMAX
123gr Hornady SST
123gr Nosler Custom Competition
123gr Lapua Silver Scenar

127gr Barnes LRX
129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range

130gr Berger VLD Hunting
130gr Berger VLD TGT

PPU/Prvi Partizan
110gr FMJBT
120gr HPBT

Sellier & Bellot
124gr FMJ

Underwood Ammo
105gr Match Solid Flash Tip
110gr Controlled Chaos

Remington New for 2020
120gr HPBT
120gr Premier Match

Wolf
100gr FMJ (steel case)
120gr Performance

 

[chadwickz71]

I will check with Wilson to see if they will in fact build an ultra light ranger in the Grendel.

with regard to potentially trying a 12” barrel for ultra carry and weight reduction, would you still push the 6.5 Grendel

 

[Ernest 5.56]

Why not 300Hamr Bill Wilson made it for hogs.

 

[346ci]

A 12.5" 6.8 with a 5" can is my main deer rifle, works very well. Todd beat up hogs for a while with them also.

The 2 options you listed will be nice but you could build one much cheaper. No advantages for the Six8 magpul mags, not even a longer coal vs metal, many solid metal mags out there also.

Seekins has some nice receivers, handguards and adj gas blocks. Get an ARP barrel and you will be fine. I like Expo Arms gear also. If it had to be built, Blackstone Arms could do an upper for you.

 

[LRRPF52]

I will check with Wilson to see if they will in fact build an ultra light ranger in the Grendel.

with regard to potentially trying a 12” barrel for ultra carry and weight reduction, would you still push the 6.5 Grendel

Absolutely. It’s my go-to AR right now. I wish something like this was available for pretty much everything I have used a rifle or carbine for in my life.

HD...check
Hunting....check
Long Range fun shooting steel....check
Kid-friendly....check
Suppressed and compact....check

For years people who have never chronographed short barrel Grendels have said it doesn’t do well, not enough velocity, but that has been opposite of my experience across 2x 12” ARs I built with the same barrels.

90gr TNT is doing 2700fps from my 12” suppressed.
120gr Federal is doing 2400fps.

That’s not much different from all the 16” Grendels I have owned or built.

These are large sample sizes, not 3-5rd data points. 11-15rd averages minimum. I could have cherry-picked higher numbers from smaller shot strings, but I prefer larger shot strings to get an idea of what mv really is.

 

[chadwickz71]

What rifle are you running here, sounds like complete Wilson's?

 

[Floridapanhandle]

For hogs on a AR-15 platform I use a 458 SOCOM. Serious knock down power.

 

[steve101610]

If you’re not shooting past 100 yards why not 223? A 223 with either a Barnes ttsx or 75-77gr ammo should take out pigs no problem. Cheap ammo and east to find.

 

[LRRPF52]

If you’re not shooting past 100 yards why not 223? A 223 with either a Barnes ttsx or 75-77gr ammo should take out pigs no problem. Cheap ammo and east to find.

.223 and 5.56 hit very hard within 100yds and even 200yds for sure, but you see a lot of runners as well. For first-round shots, they will drop any medium game animal with authority with shot placement and bullet construction, but it starts to struggle as the distance increases and you deal with runners for 2nd and 3rd shots.

It also struggles on yotes as you get past 200-300yds, so while I think everyone should have a 5.56 carbine for common and well-regulated duties per the Constitution, there are other cartridges that clearly do better on game in several different hunting scenarios. The 75-77gr ammo for .223 costs as much or more than several of the alternate cartridges you can chamber in too.

Grendel is the most versatile of them all when looking at projectile weights and performance, with the most factory ammo options on top of that with 124 active/in-production samples I counted in December.

 

[Jsp556]

Grendel is the easy button. Hornady Black 123eld’s do pretty much everything within the cartridge’s limits and it’s shot pretty good in every Grendel I’ve been around.

I tried the 6ARC and went back to 6.5Grendel.

 

[vivdav]

I have the 6.8 LWRCI and have been mostly happy but have seen a lot of runners after shooting hogs at 100 yds compared to the newer Ruger SFAR in .308. Incredibly light and does everything I could ask. I have buddies that have since bought the SFAR and they too are pleased. Pigs are tough and the smaller bullets just don't do as much damage as the bigger 168's and above. We do a lot of thermal hunting and really none you have mentioned are bad choices.

 

[MO Fugga]

.458 SOCOM. Get a Rock River or a Tromix. It has the ballistics of a .45-70.

 

[LRRPF52]

Grendel is the easy button. Hornady Black 123eld’s do pretty much everything within the cartridge’s limits and it’s shot pretty good in every Grendel I’ve been around.

I tried the 6ARC and went back to 6.5Grendel.

I’m getting 6 ARC performance with the 100gr Hornady ELD-VT factory ammo, and I had plans for many years to do a 6mm AR build (simple neck-down of Grendel to 6mm). After running all the numbers with 6mm vs some of the 100-110gr 6.5mm, I’m just not seeing the advantages. The Doppler Radar data for 6mm compared to my real-world data with 6.5 100gr ELD-VT overlap each other, even favoring the 6.5 slightly.

It’s really easy to hit steel at 1000yds with the 100gr ELD-VT. In fact, I’ve not had a round off-target with it, granted I was shooting some big gongs. That was from a 17.6” Lilja barrel as well with a .650” profile up until the gas block shoulder.

I just got in some Hammer Hunter Tipped 6.5mm 80gr bullets. They will do over 3000fps from an 18” Grendel. They have a huge cavity in the nose, with a plastic tip that presses into it.

 

[Generations]

I've been looking into this as well. Tried calculating ballistics for 22 Arc with 62 vt, 80 & 88 eldm, 6 Arc with 80 vt, 105 & 109 and 6.5 grendel with 100 vt, 123 & 130.
Not really concerned with drop, which we can calculate, but rather our constantly changing winds on the ridges and draws.
5.56 with 77's just drifts more than I'm skilled enough to predict consistently.
Looking to build a couple 14.5" AR's for my kids to learn on. Don't think I can go wrong on any of the three (22 & 6 Arc, 6.5 grendel) compared to 5.56, and have nothing outside of 5.56/308 currently so I want to pick the "best" and stick with it. Don't plan on anything bigger than predators. From what I've calculated, using the actual average velocity info I could find from those of you who have shared, the 22 Arc seems to out perform the 6 Arc, minus the energy on target. 6.5 has lots more drop, but again, I'm mainly concerned with drift. Thoughts between the three with 14.5" barrels and knowing I'm looking to cut down on drift?

 

[45-90]

Or build a 6 lb 2 oz 308 16" barrel carbon fiber handguard, titanium bolt carrier, titanium muzzle brake, magnesium upper.
Shooting 168gr ELDM with loadbook max to 2756 ave fps with 1/2" 5 shot group
accuracy.

Capable of 1200 yd shooting.
If you are not into building a light 308.
Order a rifle or a complete upper from ROAM. They use pencil barrels, I used a light fluted barrel that was slightly heavier but a stiffer profile.
That's where I got the magnesium upper reciever, and it handling every thing well.
Including the heavy 208s at 2442 fps.

You gun build it your way, just a suggestion, where ya don't have to give up 308 energy and range, in exchange for weight. This 308 is lighter than all my AR 15s with 16 and 18 inch barrels. Plus ammo is available everywhere. And if ya handload little performance is lost.

 

[Generations]

Yeah, I like the 308 and it's family. Thats a sweet rig.
I have a sfar I'm going to improve on that I really like. But I feel the recoil isn't the best learning tool for my kids who aren't yet teens, and are sub 80 lbs.
I'm a fan of short, heavily fluted barrels. Haven't heard of ROAM, will look into them. Thx

 

[45-90]

Yeah, I like the 308 and it's family. Thats a sweet rig.
I have a sfar I'm going to improve on that I really like. But I feel the recoil isn't the best learning tool for my kids who aren't yet teens, and are sub 80 lbs.
I'm a fan of short, heavily fluted barrels. Haven't heard of ROAM, will look into them. Thx

Check them out, they have complete light weight AR 10 uppers starting around $1300.
Plus complete rifles, or all the parts, handguards, uppers, lowers, etc to help reduce the weight, of the AR 10 to your liking.
ROAM is a magnesium high tech aerospace contractor, who also do this AR 10 business their CNC machines.

 

[LRRPF52]

I've been looking into this as well. Tried calculating ballistics for 22 Arc with 62 vt, 80 & 88 eldm, 6 Arc with 80 vt, 105 & 109 and 6.5 grendel with 100 vt, 123 & 130.
Not really concerned with drop, which we can calculate, but rather our constantly changing winds on the ridges and draws.
5.56 with 77's just drifts more than I'm skilled enough to predict consistently.
Looking to build a couple 14.5" AR's for my kids to learn on. Don't think I can go wrong on any of the three (22 & 6 Arc, 6.5 grendel) compared to 5.56, and have nothing outside of 5.56/308 currently so I want to pick the "best" and stick with it. Don't plan on anything bigger than predators. From what I've calculated, using the actual average velocity info I could find from those of you who have shared, the 22 Arc seems to out perform the 6 Arc, minus the energy on target. 6.5 has lots more drop, but again, I'm mainly concerned with drift. Thoughts between the three with 14.5" barrels and knowing I'm looking to cut down on drift?

Comparing 14.5” 6.5 Grendel with 100gr ELD-VT at 2509fps vs 6mm ARC with 103gr ELD-X and 108gr ELD-M at 2452fps:

400yds = 1 mil drift for Grendel w/100gr ELD-VT, 1 mil for 6mm 103gr ELD-X, 1 mil for 108gr ELD-M
600yds = 1.7 mils for Grendel, 1.6 mils for 6mm 103gr ELD-X, 1.6 mils for 6mm 108gr ELD-M
700yds = 2 mils drift for Grendel/100gr ELD-VT, 2 mils for 103 ELD-X, 2 mils for 108gr ELD-M
800yds = 2.4 mils Grendel/100gr ELD-VT, 2.4 mils 103 ELD-X, 2.4 mils 108gr ELD-M

I’m using Hornady’s ballistic programs for both, but the 4DOF/Radar data is not available for the 100gr ELD-VT. When I was shooting it at 1000yds from a 17.6” Grendel, I was holding about 1.5 mils into the wind and had all hits on steel, with a varying wind at about 3/4 value, at 6300ft elevation and 20˚F.

I used 1000ft elevation and standard weather conditions even for the above comparisons. I used the standard Hornady program for the 100gr ELD-VT, and the Doppler Radar 4DOF program for the 6mms. My real world data with 100gr ELD-VT matches what the Hornady program generated even with G1 out to 1000yds. If there is a difference in wind values in favor of the 6mm, they might be .1 mils at 400yds, .2 mils at 600yds, .2 mils at 700yds, .2 mils at 800yds, .2 mils at 900yds, and .2 mils at 1000yds.

Both are supersonic to 900yds at 1000ft elevation. For yotes, you won’t notice the difference within 400-500yds. Barrel quality will matter more and your ability to read wind and shoot your call quickly.

 

[45-90]

Also if recoil is a problem for anyone with a 308, the 130 gr Speer Varmint and their 125 TNT at 2700 to 2800 fps will cycle AR 10s and shoot seriously tiny groups, .3 to .4" 5 shot groups with LC brass has been accomplished, with mild recoil.

(Remington had some reduced recoil factory loads, but I never tried them ..too expensive.)

These handloads with 130 gt Speer Varmint shoot well with most any powder on the velocity range of 2800 fps.
Even surplus and pull down powders to make accurate, cheap loads for anyone to practice with. Accurate in most 308s any twist 12, 11.25, 10, 9, 8, with the 130 gr. Varmint.

Which some use to take deer...I do not.

 

[LRRPF52]

Yeah, I like the 308 and it's family. Thats a sweet rig.
I have a sfar I'm going to improve on that I really like. But I feel the recoil isn't the best learning tool for my kids who aren't yet teens, and are sub 80 lbs.
I'm a fan of short, heavily fluted barrels. Haven't heard of ROAM, will look into them. Thx

My 60lb 8yr-old was just spotting his own hits with the Grendel and 123gr on Thursday at 400yds, using the LaRue Stealth 2.0 with 18” barrel and the Tranquilo brake. He was able to see dust kick-up or plate movement through the Vortex Razor Gen 3 on about 6-7x with no problems.

He also enjoys shooting the 17.6” Grendel with 2.5-10x32 Viper PST on steel:

Pic through binos of the targets he’s on. He 1st-round connected on that 400yd round plate on Thursday with the LaRue 6.5 Grendel and Razor Gen 3.

A 14.5” Grendel would be sweet with a suppressor like the TBAC Ultra 5 Gen 2 or Dominus K-SR.

I have an Ultra 5 on the 12” Grendel that the kids love to shoot as well. They were shooting that on Thursday too.

Even with the lighter weight kids, none of the Grendels have short-stroked on them. I’ve seen some semi-autos short-stroke due to kids being too light to resist the whole blaster traveling with the bolt carrier group, like limp-wristing for long guns basically.

 

[Generations]

Comparing 14.5” 6.5 Grendel with 100gr ELD-VT at 2509fps vs 6mm ARC with 103gr ELD-X and 108gr ELD-M at 2452fps:

400yds = 1 mil drift for Grendel w/100gr ELD-VT, 1 mil for 6mm 103gr ELD-X, 1 mil for 108gr ELD-M
600yds = 1.7 mils for Grendel, 1.6 mils for 6mm 103gr ELD-X, 1.6 mils for 6mm 108gr ELD-M
700yds = 2 mils drift for Grendel/100gr ELD-VT, 2 mils for 103 ELD-X, 2 mils for 108gr ELD-M
800yds = 2.4 mils Grendel/100gr ELD-VT, 2.4 mils 103 ELD-X, 2.4 mils 108gr ELD-M

I’m using Hornady’s ballistic programs for both, but the 4DOF/Radar data is not available for the 100gr ELD-VT. When I was shooting it at 1000yds from a 17.6” Grendel, I was holding about 1.5 mils into the wind and had all hits on steel, with a varying wind at about 3/4 value, at 6300ft elevation and 20˚F.

I used 1000ft elevation and standard weather conditions even for the above comparisons. I used the standard Hornady program for the 100gr ELD-VT, and the Doppler Radar 4DOF program for the 6mms. My real world data with 100gr ELD-VT matches what the Hornady program generated even with G1 out to 1000yds. If there is a difference in wind values in favor of the 6mm, they might be .1 mils at 400yds, .2 mils at 600yds, .2 mils at 700yds, .2 mils at 800yds, .2 mils at 900yds, and .2 mils at 1000yds.

Both are supersonic to 900yds at 1000ft elevation. For yotes, you won’t notice the difference within 400-500yds. Barrel quality will matter more and your ability to read wind and shoot your call quickly.

Appreciate your input and working this up.
I should clarify, we want to work on fundamentals and eventually shoot to the cartridges limits on steel, but coyotes are the largest living targets we plan on.
Barrel recommendations?

 

[Generations]

Also if recoil is a problem for anyone with a 308, the 130 gr Speer Varmint and their 125 TNT at 2700 to 2800 fps will cycle AR 10s and shoot seriously tiny groups, .3 to .4" 5 shot groups with LC brass has been accomplished, with mild recoil.

(Remington had some reduced recoil factory loads, but I never tried them ..too expensive.)

These handloads with 130 gt Speer Varmint shoot well with most any powder on the velocity range of 2800 fps.
Even surplus and pull down powders to make accurate, cheap loads for anyone to practice with. Accurate in most 308s any twist 12, 11.25, 10, 9, 8, with the 130 gr. Varmint.

Which some use to take deer...I do not.

Good point. Definitely methods to help make a cartridge suitable.
We're old school on deer. 3006 with 165's.
Personally don't like faster rounds for meat due to possible blood shot damage.

 

[91Eunozs]

I posted in another thread here where someone was asking about a good intermediate caliber for a small frame AR… For me it’s the 6.8 SPC-2. I almost went 6.5 Grendel, and it’s a great round, but for me it was all about getting in on a good deal on some ammo when I was trying to decide.

If I was starting from scratch today, I’d very likely go 6 ARC, but I’m far too invested in the 6.8 now; three rifles and thousands of casings, plus bullets, etc. I absolutely love this round for pigs and the relatively small deer we get here in Texas hill country. Easier to shoot than my AR10 for follow up shots, and just as accurate at the distances I tend to shoot: Well within 200-250 yards or so, probably half my shots on game are within 100 yards.

The “Thumper” calibers have their place, but I wouldn’t really consider any of them as a replacement for .308; ballistics are far too dissimilar. Great rounds nonetheless, but horses for courses. The thumpers excel for thick brush hunting at close range…inside 50 yards or so…basically where I shoot a lot of 300BLK subs. I personally think the .458 SOCOM is the best of the big three thumpers (450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, and 50 Beowulf), but own a 450BM. I used to reload a lot of .45 ACP, and buying the .451 bullets in bulk just made more sense to me

Really a lot of good choices out there right now, pick one you like and just shoot!

 

[Generations]

My 60lb 8yr-old was just spotting his own hits with the Grendel and 123gr on Thursday at 400yds, using the LaRue Stealth 2.0 with 18” barrel and the Tranquilo brake. He was able to see dust kick-up or plate movement through the Vortex Razor Gen 3 on about 6-7x with no problems.

He also enjoys shooting the 17.6” Grendel with 2.5-10x32 Viper PST on steel:

Pic through binos of the targets he’s on. He 1st-round connected on that 400yd round plate on Thursday with the LaRue 6.5 Grendel and Razor Gen 3.

A 14.5” Grendel would be sweet with a suppressor like the TBAC Ultra 5 Gen 2 or Dominus K-SR.

I have an Ultra 5 on the 12” Grendel that the kids love to shoot as well. They were shooting that on Thursday too.

Even with the lighter weight kids, none of the Grendels have short-stroked on them. I’ve seen some semi-autos short-stroke due to kids being too light to resist the whole blaster traveling with the bolt carrier group, like limp-wristing for long guns basically.

Very nice. Starting him out far ahead of most.
Definitely would like to eventually have suppressors, but I also want them to be able to grab and use as needed when I'm not around, so they need to be familiar using without.
Haven't heard of that brake. Will look it up.

 

[Generations]

I posted in another thread here where someone was asking about a good intermediate caliber for a small frame AR… For me it’s the 6.8 SPC-2. I almost went 6.5 Grendel, and it’s a great round, but for me it was all about getting in on a good deal on some ammo when I was trying to decide.

If I was starting from scratch today, I’d very likely go 6 ARC, but I’m far too invested in the 6.8 now; three rifles and thousands of casings, plus bullets, etc. I absolutely love this round for pigs and the relatively small deer we get here in Texas hill country. Easier to shoot than my AR10 for follow up shots, and just as accurate at the distances I tend to shoot: Well within 200-250 yards or so, probably half my shots on game are within 100 yards.

The “Thumper” calibers have their place, but I wouldn’t really consider any of them as a replacement for .308; ballistics are far too dissimilar. Great rounds nonetheless, but horses for courses. The thumpers excel for thick brush hunting at close range…inside 50 yards or so…basically where I shoot a lot of 300BLK subs. I personally think the .458 SOCOM is the best of the big three thumpers (450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, and 50 Beowulf), but own a 450BM. I used to reload a lot of .45 ACP, and buying the .451 bullets in bulk just made more sense to me

Really a lot of good choices out there right now, pick one you like and just shoot!

Yeah, we live on the edge of timber at 4200'.
Not a lot of shots less than 250 yards. Ability to take shots in excess of 1000, but not the skills currently. Just want to start the kids with what I'll want them to end up with vs changing to something midpoint.
Yep, looks like mostly its a matter of picking and then practicing reading that wind.
Thx

 

[LRRPF52]

Appreciate your input and working this up.
I should clarify, we want to work on fundamentals and eventually shoot to the cartridges limits on steel, but coyotes are the largest living targets we plan on.
Barrel recommendations?

I have had excellent results with:

Bartlein
Lilja AR drop-in barrels
Bartlein, Krieger, Lilja, and Criterion from Precision Firearms
LaRue

Criterion from Precision Firearms go for $425. You can specify 14.5” with MLGS, which is standard on those.

I have a 14.5” Rexus barrel I have yet to install and shoot.

Rexus bolts are the go-to bolts.

 

[Generations]

Perfect. That helps a lot. Thank you.

 

[Jsp556]

If off the shelf ammo will be a factor, go to your local shops and see what’s available. In my area Hornady Black is easily found. The wife and I stopped by a box storein Athens, ga today. All three were on the shelf. 6.5G 123eld and 123bthp @ 29.99 per box, 6.8spc 110gr vmax was 34.99 and the 6arc 105bthp were 39.99. 3 boxes of 6.8, 5 boxes of 6arc, and at least 20 boxes of Grendel. There’s always more Grendel ammo at cheaper prices in my area.

 

[LRRPF52]

I’m really spoiled in local gun store and big box store ammo availability.

Within 45 minutes of me, I have:

4 Sportsman’s Warehouses
Scheel's
Cabella’s
10+ smaller LGSs

I got the 100gr ELD-VT Grendel from Scheel’s, and Sportsman’s always has Grendel.

I prefer to order Grendel online unless there’s a particular small LGS I like to support who carries it.

Bought some 123gr Fort Scott TUI from one of the main ones not too long ago. BC on that is .587 G1, and the shape of the bullets seems to confirm that.

 

[Generations]

If off the shelf ammo will be a factor, go to your local shops and see what’s available. In my area Hornady Black is easily found. The wife and I stopped by a box storein Athens, ga today. All three were on the shelf. 6.5G 123eld and 123bthp @ 29.99 per box, 6.8spc 110gr vmax was 34.99 and the 6arc 105bthp were 39.99. 3 boxes of 6.8, 5 boxes of 6arc, and at least 20 boxes of Grendel. There’s always more Grendel ammo at cheaper prices in my area.

Yep, good point. If factory is accurate enough, I'd probably prefer that as time is limited. That said, I live in the middle of nowhere, so the closest store with reliable supplies is 3 hrs one way. But, obviously 6.5 grendel will be the most available, which is pretty important, although I tend to try to keep on hand whatever is needed.
Historically, why I ran 5.56 and 7.62.

 

[Generations]

I’m really spoiled in local gun store and big box store ammo availability.

Within 45 minutes of me, I have:

4 Sportsman’s Warehouses
Scheel's
Cabella’s
10+ smaller LGSs

I got the 100gr ELD-VT Grendel from Scheel’s, and Sportsman’s always has Grendel.

I prefer to order Grendel online unless there’s a particular small LGS I like to support who carries it.

Bought some 123gr Fort Scott TUI from one of the main ones not too long ago. BC on that is .587 G1, and the shape of the bullets seems to confirm that.

Yeah, that'd be nice. It'd take me two days to hit all those lol.
Wondered about the TUI. Curious as to how it'll perform as it gets way out there and starts to slow down. 300 blackouts TUI are sharp.

 

[91Eunozs]

Yeah, we live on the edge of timber at 4200'.
Not a lot of shots less than 250 yards. Ability to take shots in excess of 1000, but not the skills currently. Just want to start the kids with what I'll want them to end up with vs changing to something midpoint.
Yep, looks like mostly its a matter of picking and then practicing reading that wind.
Thx

If you’ll be pushing it to 1K yards regularly, I’d be looking at 6 ARC or maybe .224 Valkyrie for a small frame AR platform.

I don’t have any real experience pushing gassers out that far though, so would defer to someone who has more experience taking smaller rounds out that far. I’ve pushed a few calibers including 300 BLK Supers out to 600 with mortar-like shots, LoL, but that’s absolutely not the right round for those distances. Again, horses for courses.

 

[Generations]

If you’ll be pushing it to 1K yards regularly, I’d be looking at 6 ARC or maybe .224 Valkyrie for a small frame AR platform.

I don’t have any real experience pushing gassers out that far though, so would defer to someone who has more experience taking smaller rounds out that far. I’ve pushed a few calibers including 300 BLK Supers out to 600 with mortar-like shots, LoL, but that’s absolutely not the right round for those distances. Again, horses for courses.

Yeah, 300's our house gun.
I don't shoot that far myself yet, but plan to learn and teach the kids to.
Pretty sure I want to stay small frame, but will look at some options I wasn't aware of till mentioned tonight.

 

[Makinchips208]

6MAX
Can convert a standard m4 with simply a barrel change and mag change.



6MAX

 

[91Eunozs]

6MAX
Can convert a standard m4 with simply a barrel change and mag change.



6MAX

That’s pretty intriguing

 

[Makinchips208]

That’s pretty intriguing

Yeah, it’s interesting for sure. BC Precision Ballistics is selling ammo already.

 

[45-90]

There is always a new cartridge. Nothing wrong with that.
But they are all very similar...some within a half grain of water capacity between the 6mm max and the 6 ARC.
I shoot heavy bullets 108 to 115 with 108 and 110 SMK a favorite. Probably not good for COAL in the 6 max works fine in the ARC, with a .5 gr difference in water capacity. But the 6 max should be slightly better in the lighter bullets.
Performance levels are usually similar no matter which one is picked.
But in the past we have the 22 Nosler which has more water capacity, than the 6 max and slightly higher pressure rating.
Then the 6mm Hagar which has 2.5 grs more water than the 6 Max. Was quite popular in match ARs.
Today the choice is so crowded, with so many new cartridges, the anmo and components for them are not available.

I went to Sportsmans Warehouse and if it wasn't a popular common cartridge, ammo wasn't available, even common big magnums, were unavailable.

 

[BamaSE]

Check out the Bison Armory 6.8 uppers. I run a couple of their factory built 10.5” suppressed for pigs. FWIW…..started at .308, then on to 6.8, then went back to .308, then .300 BO…..and back to 6.8. It has overall been the best on the pigs…..especially where there are sounders and runners in the open and follow up shots are required.

No issues on ammo if you can swing buying it in bulk when hot off the factory floor. Hornady tends to flood the market in fall and S&B in spring…..I use both in 110 grain as nothing is getting eaten and those rounds are nasty. Hornady is a bit hotter load than the S&B though.

Just plan on a 2 stamp rifle. Good thing right now the wait times for both Form 1 SBR and Form 4 suppressor seem to be measured in weeks (or even days) instead of months (or years).

 

[45-90]

I posted in another thread here where someone was asking about a good intermediate caliber for a small frame AR… For me it’s the 6.8 SPC-2. I almost went 6.5 Grendel, and it’s a great round, but for me it was all about getting in on a good deal on some ammo when I was trying to decide.

If I was starting from scratch today, I’d very likely go 6 ARC, but I’m far too invested in the 6.8 now; three rifles and thousands of casings, plus bullets, etc. I absolutely love this round for pigs and the relatively small deer we get here in Texas hill country. Easier to shoot than my AR10 for follow up shots, and just as accurate at the distances I tend to shoot: Well within 200-250 yards or so, probably half my shots on game are within 100 yards.

The “Thumper” calibers have their place, but I wouldn’t really consider any of them as a replacement for .308; ballistics are far too dissimilar. Great rounds nonetheless, but horses for courses. The thumpers excel for thick brush hunting at close range…inside 50 yards or so…basically where I shoot a lot of 300BLK subs. I personally think the .458 SOCOM is the best of the big three thumpers (450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, and 50 Beowulf), but own a 450BM. I used to reload a lot of .45 ACP, and buying the .451 bullets in bulk just made more sense to me

Really a lot of good choices out there right now, pick one you like and just shoot!

The 450 Bushmaster does everything the 458 SOCOM can do plus more...and does it with less cost, more energy available and flater trajectory with the 250 grain types.
Just get cheap Lee resizing dies .451" and .452" and lube and resize any .458" bullet to .452." IF you get the 1in 16 twist barrel.
Not the 1-24 twist.
I just ordered my 2nd 1-16 twist 450 Bushmaster barrel. It will stablize 500 jacketed and 502 grain lead...and still enjoy bulk 45 ACP bullets too. So any .451 to any .458 bullet available for 45-70, 454, 45 Colt 45 ACP, 458 Win mag can be sized down and used in the 1-16 twist.
Here is a resized 500 gr jacketed bullet in the 450 Bushmaster.

 

[Capri_Man]

I don't know how light you wanna go, but the Vseven rifles I think are the lightest you can get. They offer them in 300blk, and 6arc.