Muzzle Brakes poor form at the range?

If this thread is raising anyone’s blood pressure, you got GOT! The OP made some quality YouTube clickbait 💩 right here.

The snipershide equivalent of “Best AR15 battle zero EVAR, CONFIRMED” is this thread.
I think it is interesting, though, that this subject has raised the interest/responses that it has. Something that the responses, at least to me, seem to indicate is that the shooting community is in no way united on this subject. All the more surprising on SH, where I would submit that the preponderance of readers/posters are longer range shooters whose guns would tend to be of a larger caliber. Just my personal impression.
 
This thread pushed me to the purchase of a two port brake for my 18 inch 7-08 build. I was undecided, but fuck it, if it hurts some many peoples feelings then I’m ok with it.
One of these? It's a 2 port brake still.
Tbac Magnus rr line.
TBAC24-59.jpg
 
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Over-opinionated low-knowledge fukks seem to thrive on this site.

I see some of the most ignorant bullcrap spewed by dipshyt blowhards.
You're talking about yourself I gather. I been shooting a long time before you were in diapers. SO, who is the "Over-opinionated low-knowledge fukk" here?
 
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I actually really like being a huge pussy at the range. I like seeing my impacts at 1k! Its 2024 guys, being a pussy is cool now.
I can't help you there - pussy is just that - pussy. By the way, the top shooters in the fucking world at 1000 yards (f-class) are not allowed to use brakes in competition. Put that in your pussy book.

Time for this thread to be moved to the bear pit if we're going to keep talking about pussies!
 
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You're talking about yourself I gather. I been shooting a long time before you were in diapers. SO, who is the "Over-opinionated low-knowledge fukk" here?


You gathered wrong, bitch.


As far as diapers.....you probably are wearing them now....or soon will be.


Now.....fuck off.
 
f-class shooters are shooting on their bellies. And, they have crews in the pits to tell them where they hit the target. And, they don’t use brakes because they’re a bunch of Karens.

Brakes come into their own when the shooter must self spot impacts, from wobbly props, you know, from 1000 yards.

But, a plus of f-class is your gun cart can double as your walker. So there is that…
 
f-class shooters are shooting on their bellies. And, they have crews in the pits to tell them where they hit the target. And, they don’t use brakes because they’re a bunch of Karens.

Brakes come into their own when the shooter must self spot impacts, from wobbly props, you know, from 1000 yards.

But, a plus of f-class is your gun cart can double as your walker. So there is that…
Is the lack of brakes the reason you quit shooting F-Class ?
 
f-class shooters are shooting on their bellies. And, they have crews in the pits to tell them where they hit the target. And, they don’t use brakes because they’re a bunch of Karens.

Brakes come into their own when the shooter must self spot impacts, from wobbly props, you know, from 1000 yards.

But, a plus of f-class is your gun cart can double as your walker. So there is that…
ITs pretty tough to see bullet holes in paper at 1k.

Its not tuff to spot hits on steal at 1k with no brake.

If you can't spot hits at 1k with your 25lb 6BRA without a brake, it might be more indicative of other problems.
 
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Is the lack of brakes the reason you quit shooting F-Class ?
Belly bench-rest never really held any interest for me. I've always held that F-Class is short for Fudd-Class. I've never seen anything to suggest otherwise.
ITs pretty tough to see bullet holes in paper at 1k.
Exactly, there is absolutely no advantage to optimizing a rifle for self-spotting in F-Class. Bringing this sport into the discussion is a red herring.

Hang an array of 0.5-1 MOA steel circle targets, eliminate the "pit crew", and outlaw 3rd party spotters on the line. (An RO will record hits from the shooting line, but will not give corrections.) Now lets see what happens to the F-Class gear... Oh, and we're going to shorten the relays to 10 shots in 2 minutes, and every shot counts for record. Oh hell, let's make it fun. The shooter must do a left or right barrel role (with rifle) after every 2 shots...
Its not tuff to spot hits on steal at 1k with no brake.
It's not the hits on steel that are the problem. It's spotting the misses- as they give much less indication. As often as not, the only indication is that elusive "bullet trace."
If you can't spot hits at 1k with your 25lb 6BRA without a brake, it might be more indicative of other problems.
While this may be the case, the majority of targets at a typical PRS event are closer than 1000, and are not shot from prone. The irony of shooting is that self-spotting gets more difficult as the range gets closer because time is on your side.

Let's not forget that you don't get any sighters in PRS. And, you get 90-120 sec to shoot the entire string, including getting into position, and moving between positions- often several times.

Everything about a PRS rifle is optimized to self-spot- from the anemic cartridges, to the ludicrously heavy barrel profiles, interchangeable weight systems, endless debates about "balance," front bags, rear bags, pillows, and yes muzzle brakes. Hell, even the shooting techniques are optimized for spotting impacts.

I really don't like muzzle brakes. But, my match rifles have brakes, because they are part of the system designed for the game...
 
I mentioned this a few years ago but I do think eventually there will be a move to limit some of these brakes. We are already seeing TBI and other head injuries from SOF guys who do a ton of CQB in confined spaces and eat a ton of overblast/concussion. Alot of trainers will not allow you to use muzzle brakes in classes for this reason. The last class I took had like 20 people on a condensed firing line under cover and the guy next to me was shooting a 16" braked 6.5cm and it was like getting kicked in the chest every time he shot. Even putting a pack between us, you couldnt concentrate to get your shot off. Zero reason people should have to deal with this shit.

Not one to want to infringe on peoples rights but some of these brakes are downright painful to be around. Shooting matches in confined spaces (many east coast matches), especially under cover it really wears you down over the course of a day or 2.; I would be for the league limiting certain products that are especially egregious. Brakes like the A419 and TMB do not really provide any more recoil reduction or reduced muzzle flip compared to better designed brakes like the ACE and ATS. Everyone else shouldn't be eating shit because you make a poor choice in muzzle brakes.

The concussion is cumulative and if you are shooting all the time, cant be good for you long term. Ear pro type does not matter.
 
What fired up all of this caterwauling and hash slinging anyway? Judas in a sidecar! Like a bunch of old hens pecking at one another. For the love of God man.
People who like to shit talk but then cry when it gets thrown back at them. If they don't want the smoke then they shouldn't ask for it.
 
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Gentlemen....gentlemen!! Please! How is it that a discussion of a relatively unimportant ( certainly in the grand scheme of things ) hunk of inanimate metal can cause such rancor and discord among presumably grown, mature men?
Oh.....wait......I forgot for a moment that this was Sniper`s Hide. Such are in the vast minority........ Never mind.
 
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Gentlemen....gentlemen!! Please! How is it that a discussion of a relatively unimportant ( certainly in the grand scheme of things ) hunk of inanimate metal can cause such rancor and discord among presumably grown, mature men?
Oh.....wait......I forgot for a moment that this was Sniper`s Hide. Such are in the vast minority........ Never mind.
I thought your use of the term "Gentleman" was worth bonus points, but "Mature Men"? kind of silly in this place:ROFLMAO:
 
Well when you don't have much brain matter to loose, I guess it doesn't matter. Some of us don't want to grow old with mashed brains.

If you actually kept up to date with the studies and changes coming out from big institutions, you would know its becoming an issue.

People kill themselves due to these kinds of injuries. It can be cumulative and complementary with other issues/injuries as well. TBI is no joke. Alot of vets already have it and don't even know. Add in repeated over pressure/concussion, what do you think will happen?

I'm sure 60 years ago the same types of geniuses were saying smoking is healthy and nothing wrong with it.
 
Really? You didnt respond to my post?

Maybe up the ensure dosage there old man. Brain seems to be faltering.
I can't remember what I wore yesterday sometimes and I'm only 55. I got two brain cells left and they're fighting each other. But I can shoot well, so I don't really care if I notice when I get back from the grocery store that I had two different shoes on. :D
 
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Well when you don't have much brain matter to loose, I guess it doesn't matter. Some of us don't want to grow old with mashed brains.

If you actually kept up to date with the studies and changes coming out from big institutions, you would know its becoming an issue.

People kill themselves due to these kinds of injuries. It can be cumulative and complementary with other issues/injuries as well. TBI is no joke. Alot of vets already have it and don't even know. Add in repeated over pressure/concussion, what do you think will happen?

I'm sure 60 years ago the same types of geniuses were saying smoking is healthy and nothing wrong with it.
There's no doubt I probably have it. CQB training for 12 years definitely pokes ya in the chops. However, I attribute most of my short term memory loss to injuries I suffered doing stupid shit when I was younger. I probably had multiple concussions from racing dirt bikes, crashing my bicycle as a kid (we didn't wear helmets back then) and no one knew about concussions. After a crash, you took a minute to figure out where you were, shook it off and got back on the damned thing.

If I don't write something down, I will forget it. This gets me into a lot of trouble with the ladies. :ROFLMAO:
 
Look guys, @DeathBeforeDismount lacks a bunch of social skills. I’m sure he is aware but can’t help himself.

But he does sometimes offer actual helpful info (unfortunately usually wrapped in bombastic insults).



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7396645/ (suggestive)


The short version is: if it makes you feel funny, tired, or gives you headaches etc, it’s almost certainly not good for you.

You might be fine farting and smoking and using a fucking loud-ass brake, but the guy near you might have had TBI in the military and you’re ruining his day. Or you’re battering a little kid’s brain. Or a lady already has hearing loss and you’re doing her no favors as the brake overpowers her muffs+plugs.

It’s about compassion.
 
You have a right to use brakes, but the fact is brakes suck. Nobody likes getting beat up by brakes, but the shit of the matter is brakes mostly beat up OTHER people and not the person using it. The more aggressive ones these days absolutely cause serious hearing and brain damage, look it up. The other thing is, they are great at getting shooting ranges shut down. We just lost one of our more active clubs in my area due to noise complaints. This is a PRS event too, if only people could shoot 20+lb 6mms without a 5 port brake....
 
Look guys, @DeathBeforeDismount lacks a bunch of social skills. I’m sure he is aware but can’t help himself.

But he does sometimes offer actual helpful info (unfortunately usually wrapped in bombastic insults).



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7396645/ (suggestive)


The short version is: if it makes you feel funny, tired, or gives you headaches etc, it’s almost certainly not good for you.

You might be fine farting and smoking and using a fucking loud-ass brake, but the guy near you might have had TBI in the military and you’re ruining his day. Or you’re battering a little kid’s brain. Or a lady already has hearing loss and you’re doing her no favors as the brake overpowers her muffs+plugs.

It’s about compassion.
I'm quite certain I have some mild symptoms of this phenomenon. I took the suggestion of a member on here and printed a sign and put it on my bench in case of such things. The RSO saw it and said "Isn't that sweet of you". I said I'm trying. LOL
 

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You have a right to use brakes, but the fact is brakes suck. Nobody likes getting beat up by brakes, but the shit of the matter is brakes mostly beat up OTHER people and not the person using it. The more aggressive ones these days absolutely cause serious hearing and brain damage, look it up. The other thing is, they are great at getting shooting ranges shut down. We just lost one of our more active clubs in my area due to noise complaints. This is a PRS event too, if only people could shoot 20+lb 6mms without a 5 port brake....
Brakes don't make a gun any louder. The brake does redirect the noise and concussion to other shooters.
 
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I'm quite certain I have some mild symptoms of this phenomenon. I took the suggestion of a member on here and printed a sign and put it on my bench in case of such things. The RSO saw it and said "Isn't that sweet of you". I said I'm trying. LOL
Hey, good for you! Seriously.

But blast-type injuries overpower ear protection. They go right through your skull into your brain, travel up through your bones and get into your ear.

That’s why these PRS dudes feel blah after a while at a match. They certainly have a bunch of ear pro on.

I don’t know how to effectively mitigate the risk while still using muzzle brakes.
 
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Hey, good for you! Seriously.

But blast-type injuries overpower ear protection. They go right through your skull into your brain, travel up through your bones and get into your ear.

I don’t know how to effectively mitigate the risk.
Well I'm doing my best to at least try. I'm sympathetic to people with injuries. Just not to some whining goof from NY testing out his 22LR and realizing guns are loud. I doubt an hour next to me is going to scar him for life. But some combat vet or retired SWAT Operator with a problem is a different story altogether. If the range can't accommodate such an individual due to no other spaces available, I would either leave or wait until they are finished. Thus, the sign.
 
I don’t know how to effectively mitigate the risk.
I do. Take suppressors off of Class III and ATFs greedy fingers and make them an available and thus more affordable option to every person. While most suppressors do not provide the same level of recoil reduction as the best brakes do, they do mitigate recoil and the recoil pulse is often felt/believed to be easier for spotting.
 
Hey, good for you! Seriously.

But blast-type injuries overpower ear protection. They go right through your skull into your brain, travel up through your bones and get into your ear.

That’s why these PRS dudes feel blah after a while at a match. They certainly have a bunch of ear pro on.

I don’t know how to effectively mitigate the risk while still using muzzle brakes.
Using a 90 degree brake or wider brake might help.

I run these and love them:



Expensive, but no issues.

-Stan
 
Brakes don't make a gun any louder. The brake does redirect the noise and concussion to other shooters.
Loudness is a subject that is vexing.

The way I look at it is if noise is like light, then a muzzle brake is like a magnifying glass. You can fry ants with regular sunshine + magnifying glass, and you can punch my brain with a regular ol’ .223 report + muzzle brake.

I do. Take suppressors off of Class III and ATFs greedy fingers and make them an available and thus more affordable option to every person. While most suppressors do not provide the same level of recoil reduction as the best brakes do, they do mitigate recoil and the recoil pulse is often felt/believed to be easier for spotting.
Dangit, you are fast on the draw.

I edited my post near instantly to add, “…while still using muzzle brakes,” but you beat me to the punch.
 
Like I`ve said, it`s the concussion. In a serious vein guys, if there are potential health risks to other shooters....that`s a problem. I`m all for freedom at the range.... but IF there is any sort of objective data ( and I don`t know that there is ) lending credence to assertions of harm, then prudent, proactive steps should be taken IMHO. To me that doesn`t necessarily mean an out and out ban.
 
ITs pretty tough to see bullet holes in paper at 1k.

Its not tuff to spot hits on steal at 1k with no brake.

If you can't spot hits at 1k with your 25lb 6BRA without a brake, it might be more indicative of other problems.
At 1000, spotting a hole on paper is pretty much impossible, at least with a 27x scope. And when in heavy mirage - impossible - even at 600.
 
Now that makes sense, based upon actual cost of manufacture. $1000-2000 each has always rubbed me the wrong way.
100% agree. Let's be honest, the prices we pay in the US for suppressors is due solely to the retarded gun laws we have and the extreme red-tape required to manufacture one here. If they weren't NFA items, and more manufacturers jumped in, like most other gun accessories, we wouldn't be paying more than $400-$500 for a metal tube with baffles in it either.
 
But some combat vet or retired SWAT Operator with a problem is a different story altogether. If the range can't accommodate such an individual due to no other spaces available, I would either leave or wait until they are finished. Thus, the sign.
The trouble is 99.9% of the time you can’t tell who has this type of injury. And they probably don’t want to impose upon you and might even be embarrassed about the whole thing.

Myself, I can’t even be around regular un-braked gunfire anymore without losing some hearing in my doubled-up left ear. Docs just say that’s the way it is.

I’ve resorted to either just decamping when someone else enters the shed or, very occasionally and only when I am almost done shooting, I’ll ask to alternate while I wait outside while they shoot.

I almost always go to a different range on the same property or just get in the car and leave if there are people in all of the sheds.

To avoid people, I go late in the evening (for shooting) as the range is open until 8pm and has huge floodlights. Usually I’m the only one there in the dark, lumbering around in my snowsuit and massive bunny-type boots across this frozen tundra of MN.

Well, this year it’s hot (30°-40°), but you get my (snow) drift.

Embarrassment is something I feel when explaining this to other members in person. I don’t want to impose on anyone, as they are members too.
 
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The trouble is 99.9% of the time you can’t tell who has this type of injury. And they probably don’t want to impose upon you and might even be embarrassed about the whole thing.

Myself, I can’t even be around regular un-braked gunfire anymore without losing some hearing in my doubled-up left ear. Docs just say that’s the way it is.

I’ve resorted to either just decamping when someone else enters the shed or, very occasionally and only when I am almost done shooting, I’ll ask to alternate while I wait outside while they shoot.

I almost always go to a different range on the same property or just get in the car and leave if there are people in all of the sheds.

I go late in the evening (for shooting) as the range is open until 8pm and has huge floodlights.

Embarrassment is something I feel when explaining this to other members in person. I don’t want to impose on anyone, as they are members too.
There is nothing embarrassing about that sir. A quick explanation would suffice to get me to alternate with you or whatever. I do realize, however, that I am not most people and there are an abundance of jackass non caring douchebags on this rock.
 
Hey, good for you! Seriously.

But blast-type injuries overpower ear protection. They go right through your skull into your brain, travel up through your bones and get into your ear.

That’s why these PRS dudes feel blah after a while at a match. They certainly have a bunch of ear pro on.

I don’t know how to effectively mitigate the risk while still using muzzle brakes.
Check out the ATS brakes. Aaron Hipp designed them for this reason. He is a long time prs shooter who was getting tired of headaches after shooting. We tested it on his gun and a few of us bought them. I don't know how he did it, but you can stand next to it and not get ringing concussion. The brake exceeds the recoil reduction of A419 brakes, and it's been tested and proven. That's why I tell people there is zero reason to run them. You can get better recoil reduction while having a very concussion friendly brake that doesn't beat people up.

Decibal level and concussion are not the same thing. It can be loud without ringing your bell, which his brake does better than any I have run. The other really good one is the ACE brake. Designed by top level prs shooters for similar reason. I own a few of every major brake out there and have shot them all in comps. The 419 brakes stay in the drawer and the apa stuff is only used in field shooting away from people.