Muzzle Brakes poor form at the range?

[Grim's Reapers]

So I was at an outdoor range today zeroing a new scope... I have a 7RM 26" heavy barrel with an APA Little Bastard brake on it. The people on either side of me got quite upset and some guy's wife said "WHAT IS THAT???" in that super bitchy tone of voice. They complained to the RSO and asked if I was allowed to do that. Normally, I do try to sit on either end of the firing line, but being the weekend, the range was pretty full and that wasn't an option.

I generally try to be courteous when possible, but that lady almost made me say what I was actually thinking.

At any rate, the RSO told her she probably needs better earplugs and moved the people on either side of me somewhere else.

Is there an etiquette to this? I was just sighting in a new scope for god's sake (and a few rounds for load development).

 

[B y r o n]

Unless the range has rules about muzzle brakes, it is luck of the draw. It's a public range and if there are no rules regarding muzzle brakes it is what it is. If you have the option to use a blast diverter that is up to you.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Unless the range has rules about muzzle brakes, it is luck of the draw. It's a public range and if there are no rules regarding muzzle brakes it is what it is. If you have the option to use a blast diverter that is up to you.

I don't possess a blast diverter and honestly have never seen one. If someone is running a brake next to me I don't give it any thought, probably because I operate one myself.

 

[DJL2]

I mean, muzzle brakes SUCK for anyone not behind the gun and sometimes they suck for the shooter too. The more gas and/or exit pressure, the more they suck. It's part of the game. You don't run a brake if you're bothered by that. The worst offenders are often the dudes running huge ass brakes on their AR while they turn money into noise.

If at all possible, I get something solid between me and their muzzle. Could be a shooting bench, a shooting bag... anything that keeps the concussion from having a clear shot to my dome. Double ear pro is basically mandatory these days because of how incredibly common brakes are.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

I mean, muzzle brakes SUCK for anyone not behind the gun and sometimes they suck for the shooter too. The more gas and/or exit pressure, the more they suck. It's part of the game. You don't run a brake if you're bothered by that. The worst offenders are often the dudes running huge ass brakes on their AR while they turn money into noise.

If at all possible, I get something solid between me and their muzzle. Could be a shooting bench, a shooting bag... anything that keeps the concussion from having a clear shot to my dome. Double ear pro is basically mandatory these days because of how incredibly common brakes are.

I think my brake ports are angled back at about 60 degrees or something. I don't even notice it when I'm shooting. The long barrel probably does put the concussion right in their face if they're next to me. I'm trying to think of a way I could put a bag or something on either side of my barrel? It probably sticks too far past the shooting bench for that to work though.

Edit: I run a brake because it's a 7RM and do ELR. If you've ever shot one, I'm sure you know the recoil is somewhat less than pleasant after about 15-20 rounds without a brake. I'm also getting older and have a recoil eraser on the buttstock because my ability to "suck it up" ain't what it used to be.

 

[wpeach1912]

I usually just let people know if there’s a lot of people there. Doubling up when you’re next to a brake definitely helps significantly. I do live in an area though where basically everyone has a magnum rifle with some kind of muzzle device, so people are used to it.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Muzzle Brakes from the side are loud. But the type of brake that has ports angled back are worse.

 

[hic28]

That lady sounds like the same type of people who buy a house next to an airport that has been there for 70 years then complain about aircraft noise…

 

[Grim's Reapers]

I usually just let people know if there’s a lot of people there. Doubling up when you’re next to a brake definitely helps significantly. I do live in an area though where basically everyone has a magnum rifle with some kind of muzzle device, so people are used to it.

I'm in Palm Beach County, Florida and am a rare Florida native. A lot of people that go the range here are NY transplants who are trying shooting for the first time etc...

 

[wpeach1912]

I'm in Palm Beach County, Florida and am a rare Florida native. A lot of people that go the range here are NY transplants who are trying shooting for the first time etc...

Yeah “big gun is scary” to all of them more than likely

 

[Grim's Reapers]

That lady sounds like the same type of people who buy a house next to an airport that has been there for 70 years then complain about aircraft noise…

Well, as I mentioned to someone above, most people in my area of Florida are not from here. Most are from NY and are basically enjoying their newfound rights to own guns here, so they go have a day at the range with their 22LR's. Which is fine.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I hate shooting next to brakes and I don't. Anyone who can get a can should, it makes everything so much better for everyone including the shooter. I've gotten to where I just won't shoot anywhere near a brakes rifle but I am a member at a private range so it's a lot easier for me to avoid them and most of us who shoot long range there have cans anyway because we aren't savages....

There isn't anything wrong per say about it amd if thats what you want to do then do it, but it does suck for everyone else

 

[Grim's Reapers]

I hate shooting next to brakes and I don't. Anyone who can get a can should, it makes everything so much better for everyone including the shooter. I've gotten to where I just won't shoot anywhere near a brakes rifle but I am a member at a private range so it's a lot easier for me to avoid them and most of us who shoot long range there have cans anyway because we aren't savages....

There isn't anything wrong per say about it amd if thats what you want to do then do it, but it does suck for everyone else

No cans in Florida without a Tax Stamp.

 

[FuhQ]

 

[DJL2]

I think my brake ports are angled back at about 60 degrees or something. I don't even notice it when I'm shooting. The long barrel probably does put the concussion right in their face if they're next to me. I'm trying to think of a way I could put a bag or something on either side of my barrel? It probably sticks too far past the shooting bench for that to work though.

Edit: I run a brake because it's a 7RM and do ELR. If you've ever shot one, I'm sure you know the recoil is somewhat less than pleasant after about 15-20 rounds without a brake. I'm also getting older and have a recoil eraser on the buttstock because my ability to "suck it up" ain't what it used to be.

Just mind the distance to the bag. Muzzle blast cuts nylon easy when it's close.

My last 7mm Rem Mag was a Tikka T3x Lite. Nice rifle, easy to carry. I never put more than 40 or 50 rds through it in one day though. I'm confident a brake would have made it more pleasant, but I don't brake hunting guns.

The brake matters too. I had my 6 Creed out in a class and folks kept coming by to ask what I was shooting because my brake was that obnoxious (thanks APA!).

 

[FuhQ]

No cans in Florida without a Tax Stamp.

There's not cans in any state without a tax stamp... It's called the National Firearms Act of 1934.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

No cans in Florida without a Tax Stamp.

Yeah there's no cans anywhere without a tax stamp

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Just mind the distance to the bag. Muzzle blast cuts nylon easy when it's close.

My last 7mm Rem Mag was a Tikka T3x Lite. Nice rifle, easy to carry. I never put more than 40 or 50 rds through it in one day though. I'm confident a brake would have made it more pleasant, but I don't brake hunting guns.

The brake matters too. I had my 6 Creed out in a class and folks kept coming by to ask what I was shooting because my brake was that obnoxious (thanks APA!).

Yeah, I'm running an APA myself. It definitely knocked the recoil WAY down, but at a cost to others around me it seems.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

If cans weren't such a pain go get they'd be way more popular. It's absolutely insane that we are required by law to muffle our car, but have to go through a bunch of garbage, pay $200, and wait a year to get a muffler for our rifle....

 

[Grim's Reapers]

There's not cans in any state without a tax stamp... It's called the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Well I guess I'll be running a brake wherever I may roam in that case.

 

[Boatninja]

I was recently at the range and shooting a rifle without a brake while the guys next to me wereshooting a 7 mag with brake, (father and son). Each shot almost blew my hat off. Not sayin anything, I was trying to time my shots while they were between shots. I switched rifles to one that had a brake (22 creed) and after a couple of rounds the Dad said some stuff to his son about how loud may rifle was and they packed up their gear and left the range. Under a tin roof even worse. Those guys directly behind the rifle were clueless to what they were doing to me, but offended when i shot a much less powerful rifle with brake..

 

[hic28]

Well, as I mentioned to someone above, most people in my area of Florida are not from here. Most are from NY and are basically enjoying their newfound rights to own guns here, so they go have a day at the range with their 22LR's. Which is fine.

Thats cool they are enjoying their new rights… however, use some common sense, a range is going to be loud. Plan accordingly

 

[Grim's Reapers]

I was recently at the range and shooting a rifle without a brake while the guys next to me wereshooting a 7 mag with brake, (father and son). Each shot almost blew my hat off. Not sayin anything, I was trying to time my shots while they were between shots. I switched rifles to one that had a brake (22 creed) and after a couple of rounds the Dad said some stuff to his son about how loud may rifle was and they packed up their gear and left the range. Under a tin roof even worse. Those guys directly behind the rifle were clueless to what they were doing to me, but offended when i shot a much less powerful rifle with brake..

They probably had a brake because they thought it looked cool and didn't even know what it was for.

 

[FuhQ]

Well I guess I'll be running a brake wherever I may roam in that case.

Or, you could just buy a can... It's not a difficult process, even though it might seem daunting at first. If you can legally purchase a handgun, you can legally buy a suppressor. It just takes some stupid extra paperwork, and a permission slip (tax stamp) from the fucktards in our government, and some waiting time for them to process said permission slip.

Call the dudes at Silencer Shop and get an account setup, and you'll see just how easy buying a suppressor can be.

 

[Mars87]

Conversely in California, basically everyone runs a brake.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Or, you could just buy a can... It's not a difficult process, even though it might seem daunting at first. If you can legally purchase a handgun, you can legally buy a suppressor. It just takes some stupid extra paperwork, and a permission slip (tax stamp) from the fucktards in our government, and some waiting time for them to process said permission slip.

Call the dudes at Silencer Shop and get an account setup, and you'll see just how easy buying a suppressor can be.

I might very well do that, but I don't want to give the government permission to check my guns at their leisure and have to carry "papers" either. That does NOT sit well with me. It's stupid on a whole other level as well because gun control countries in Europe require suppressors to go hunting and here we have to dance a jig to get one.

 

[FuhQ]

Conversely in California, basically everyone runs a brake.

That's because the tyrannical morons running your state government think suppressors are super-duper-extra dangerous and only assassins use them, like in all the Hollyweird movies...

 

[FuhQ]

I might very well do that, but I don't want to give the government permission to check my guns at their leisure and have to carry "papers" either. That does NOT sit well with me. It's stupid on a whole other level as well because gun control countries in Europe require suppressors to go hunting and here we have to dance a jig to get one.

That's Fuddlore. Buying a suppressor does NOT waive your 4th Amendment right to a warranted search & siezure. That's old school Fudd bullshit that somebody made-up and it's spread far & wide over the last 30+ years. It only applies to FFL/SOT holders who have to keep "white books" showing their sales and inventory, not individual civilians who own NFA items.

If you hold an FFL, or FFL/SOT (Class 3 items), then they can already walk into your location and check your books anytime they want, because you're a registered dealer. But they can't walk into ANY random civilian's house and demand to search your safe without having a proper warrant.

 

[Baron23]

So I was at an outdoor range today zeroing a new scope... I have a 7RM 26" heavy barrel with an APA Little Bastard brake on it. The people on either side of me got quite upset and some guy's wife said "WHAT IS THAT???" in that super bitchy tone of voice. They complained to the RSO and asked if I was allowed to do that. Normally, I do try to sit on either end of the firing line, but being the weekend, the range was pretty full and that wasn't an option.

I generally try to be courteous when possible, but that lady almost made me say what I was actually thinking.

At any rate, the RSO told her she probably needs better earplugs and moved the people on either side of me somewhere else.

Is there an etiquette to this? I was just sighting in a new scope for god's sake (and a few rounds for load development).

Yes, they are often obnoxiously loud. It’s a rifle range and they need to suck it up or leave.

I shoot mostly suppressed these days but my .308 deer rifle has a side slot brake and I just tell people that is so in case they would like to move to another shooting position. If it’s full, then then see earlier statement about suck it up or leave.

I have friends with magnum hunting rifles without a brake but even so they are extremely loud. I don’t say a word…it’s a rifle range and I can either suck it up or leave.

You did just fine IMO.

Did this woman have on appropriate hearing protection that you could see?

 

[Gtscotty]

It definitely sucks to shoot next to a braked rifle compared with suppressed or bare muzzles, especially when it's something larger than one of the wee 6mms. Wouldn't have thrown a fit, but the range always gets better when the brake shooters pack up for the day and leave.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Yes, they are often obnoxiously loud. It’s a rifle range and they need to suck it up or leave.

I shoot mostly suppressed these days but my .308 deer rifle has a side slot brake and I just tell people that is so in case they would like to move to another shooting position. If it’s full, then then see earlier statement about suck it up or leave.

I have friends with magnum hunting rifles without a brake but even so they are extremely loud. I don’t say a word…it’s a rifle range and I can either suck it up or leave.

You did just fine IMO.

Did this woman have on appropriate hearing protection that you could see?

If you consider foam plugs appropriate, she did. LOL The RSO just told her to get better hearing protection. He wasn't mad at me at all.

 

[n2ishun]

Years ago I used brakes (NOT breaks ya dweebs) on a few rifles I had.
No matter how much they cost they actually do little to help with recoil.
If you are honest with yourself you will realize that all they do is make you fixate on the noise rather than the recoil.

Nowadays I know that since they do so little they are in reality of no use to me.
I'm now in a state that I am all fucked up with cancer, it's in my spine if you feel the need to know....and yet.
I shoot my 30-378 wooby w/o a brake.
I shoot my 470NE w/o a brake.
I shoot hot loads out of my 45-70 w/o a brake

Y'all be pussies if you HONESTLY think you need a brake.
You don't and are only hurting your shooting skills by using one.
There's this thing called recoil, and this other thing called flinching.
You need to train for those too.
You also need to train w/o any hearing protection......unless you think you'll have enough time to grab your earmuffs in the middle of the night when that burglar breaks in.
Shooting a 9mm or 45acp inside an enclosed room is ungodly loud if you've never done so, louder than any braked centerfire rifle out in open air.
Train for it.

 

[DJL2]

<<stuff and things>>

I love it... good for a laugh, thanks.

 

[n2ishun]

I love it... good for a laugh, thanks.

So, you're afraid of a little recoil.
Got it.

 

[Slides]

Brakes, even with a blast forwarder/diverter shield do reduce recoil, all the technique in the world won't have you settled and seeing trace/fall of shot as well without a muzzle device.

I have bought several blast forwarders now after trying one, recoil reduction at least as good if not better than factory brakes that come on a lot of sporter/longrange/crossover rifles, quieter on the line/at shooter than bare muzzle. Good option if you don't want/cannot use a suppressor.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Is there an etiquette to this?

Yes, those who bitch about gunfire at a gun range need to stay the fuck home. The longer man inhabits this rock the bigger the pussy he becomes.

 

[stanley_white]

Bring extra ear protection and when you arrive at the range hand it out to the people on your left and right with “You’re gonna need this,” and a big smile.

-Stan

 

[BoilerUP]

First time I ever shot to 1000, I ended up beside a braked 338LM.

That kinda sucked...but it was what it was. We communicated so that when I was behind my rifle he wasn't on his, because there was no way I wasn't flinching when he fired.

Few years later, different range, a guy was shooting a braked 50BMG the next table over. I ultimately made the decision to call it a day early, not because of anything he was doing 'wrong', but because I was testing reloads and simply couldn't make it 'work' for accuracy.

IMO, talk to the people around you and try to be a 'good neighbor' but ultimately you have the same right to be there as them.

(I now shoot on private property exclusively, thank goodness)

 

[Turkeytider]

Definitely the best way to clear a couple of range bays on either side! I carry a couple of sets of hearing protection in case I run into a brake that I can`t avoid, but I`ve had my range day shortened more than once by brakes. It`s the concussion for me as much as the noise. No rules against them, so they have as much right to be there as I do, so I don`t make a big deal of it. It`s my decision as to whether or not to pack up and leave ( which I will usually do if I can`t escape to another bay ).
They definitely impact the mood and atmosphere at the range, however!

 

[ForgeValley]

Years ago I used brakes (NOT breaks ya dweebs) on a few rifles I had.
No matter how much they cost they actually do little to help with recoil.
If you are honest with yourself you will realize that all they do is make you fixate on the noise rather than the recoil.

Nowadays I know that since they do so little they are in reality of no use to me.
I'm now in a state that I am all fucked up with cancer, it's in my spine if you feel the need to know....and yet.
I shoot my 30-378 wooby w/o a brake.
I shoot my 470NE w/o a brake.
I shoot hot loads out of my 45-70 w/o a brake

Y'all be pussies if you HONESTLY think you need a brake.
You don't and are only hurting your shooting skills by using one.
There's this thing called recoil, and this other thing called flinching.
You need to train for those too.
You also need to train w/o any hearing protection......unless you think you'll have enough time to grab your earmuffs in the middle of the night when that burglar breaks in.
Shooting a 9mm or 45acp inside an enclosed room is ungodly loud if you've never done so, louder than any braked centerfire rifle out in open air.
Train for it.

Train without hearing protection to get used to it... You don't 'get used to it'. You just damage your hearing beyond repair. I have significant hearing loss and forever tinnitus while not being careful enough with ear pro in the military.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Years ago I used brakes (NOT breaks ya dweebs) on a few rifles I had.
No matter how much they cost they actually do little to help with recoil.
If you are honest with yourself you will realize that all they do is make you fixate on the noise rather than the recoil.

Nowadays I know that since they do so little they are in reality of no use to me.
I'm now in a state that I am all fucked up with cancer, it's in my spine if you feel the need to know....and yet.
I shoot my 30-378 wooby w/o a brake.
I shoot my 470NE w/o a brake.
I shoot hot loads out of my 45-70 w/o a brake

Y'all be pussies if you HONESTLY think you need a brake.
You don't and are only hurting your shooting skills by using one.
There's this thing called recoil, and this other thing called flinching.
You need to train for those too.
You also need to train w/o any hearing protection......unless you think you'll have enough time to grab your earmuffs in the middle of the night when that burglar breaks in.
Shooting a 9mm or 45acp inside an enclosed room is ungodly loud if you've never done so, louder than any braked centerfire rifle out in open air.
Train for it.

I'm legitimately empathetic to the cancer sir. I hope they're going to be able to do something about that. Chemo is a bitch.

On the muzzle brakes, they certainly do help. A LOT on my rifle. The independent tests I've actually watched knocked my rifle's recoil down 35%. And I most certainly know what my own rifle felt like before and after. The difference was dramatic.

I'm no pussy sir. I've given myself 20 stitches while going down in the middle of nowhere on my motorcycle in the Appalachians. I never ran to my momma when I got hurt as a boy. I don't complain and hate hearing it when people do.

I have trained for many things as it was my occupation for many years. Now I'll admit, when I was younger, it was a badge of honor to show my buddies the purple blue and yellow bruise on my shoulder and shoot a 300 Win Mag at eggs on a fence.

When you're doing competitive shooting with a 7RM and put 60+ rounds through that thing you're going to know it the next day and yeah I could suck it up. The point is I'm not going hunting with thing. I'll pop hogs all day with a 45-70 (which is a joke in recoil vs a 7RM) or a 7RM without a brake. But this isn't hunting.

At any rate, I am legitimately proud of you for still having the ability to suck it up. I lost mine a few years ago because there was absolutely no reason for it other than bragging about it and it affecting my goal of very accurate Long Range Shooting.

Joe

 

[Nik H]

So I was at an outdoor range today zeroing a new scope... I have a 7RM 26" heavy barrel with an APA Little Bastard brake on it. The people on either side of me got quite upset and some guy's wife said "WHAT IS THAT???" in that super bitchy tone of voice. They complained to the RSO and asked if I was allowed to do that. Normally, I do try to sit on either end of the firing line, but being the weekend, the range was pretty full and that wasn't an option.

I generally try to be courteous when possible, but that lady almost made me say what I was actually thinking.

At any rate, the RSO told her she probably needs better earplugs and moved the people on either side of me somewhere else.

Is there an etiquette to this? I was just sighting in a new scope for god's sake (and a few rounds for load development).

Snowflakes shoot as well.

I always warn people if they take a position next to me just to be courteous. We can't own a can where I am so most people are used to brakes. I could see people being more vocal in areas where cans are legal. I would always prefer a can if I could own one.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Yes, those who bitch about gunfire at a gun range need to stay the fuck home. The longer man inhabits this rock the bigger the pussy he becomes.

Not all men sir, just most. The ones who do piss me off more and more the older I get.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Bring extra ear protection and when you arrive at the range hand it out to the people on your left and right with “You’re gonna need this,” and a big smile.

-Stan

Stan, thank you for an easy and legit solution. Now why I didn't think of that myself I'll never know. I'm not stupid but simple things can occasionally elude me. Thanks again. I am going to do exactly what you suggested.

 

[stanley_white]

Stan, thank you for an easy and legit solution. Now why I didn't think of that myself I'll never know. I'm not stupid but simple things can occasionally elude me. Thanks again. I am going to do exactly what you suggested.

Glad to be of use.

I would also suggest getting to the range as soon as it opens and grabbing a spot away from the others. Heck you might even want to bring a sign in a document protector that says “Muzzle Brake In Use - Double Hearing Protection Encouraged.”

-Stan

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Per Stan's suggestion,
I just ordered two sets of high quality 37db reduction muffs and a box of good rubber plugs (not foam) to hand to the people next to me as an option for them to double up on the protection. They can even keep the plugs as a bonus. I have a box of alcohol wipes for the muffs to assuage any fear that I haven't cleaned them prior to handing them over.

It might not settle the concussion problem, but it will remove any thought on their part that I'm just some jerk running a really loud brake.

Thanks again Stan!

 

[Potsy]

I’m sitting here listening to my left ear ring as I type this.
A lot of it was cumulative (no earpro when shooting, running equipment, riding with the window down for hours). I don’t blame the guy, but a dude with an RPR .338 with a brake as big as a beer can next to me one day has made my ear ring ever since (I was wearing muffs, but not doubled up with plugs). I had a braked hunting rifle (have since removed the brake), no doubt it contributed as well.
Now my ears just can’t take the noise. If the range dude wants to seat me next to someone with a brake, I’ll sit somewhere else or wait.
To each his own, but if you shoot a brake where cans are legal, you just lost your right to call anyone else a “poor”.

 

[trophyhunter]

I bet the lady was running AirPods cause her husband told her they were noise canceling . I see that all the time on my range, Massey’s Gun Shop & Range. Also from a braked 7mag or a short 8” 223 it’s hard to tell the difference in sound. Where we get the best looks is when we take out the rental M82a1. Hats go flying if they don’t heed the warnings. We kindly tell the neighbors we’re shooting it, for noise preparation and in hopes they will pay for a few shots.

I wouldn’t mind one bit if there is a brake on the range. I encourage and offer good ear muffs on my range for free. But since people are cool, they use Beats by Dre

Keep shooting

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’m not good at biting my tongue. I would have told her that guns are loud and suggest she take up knitting instead. It’s not like you went to an empty range and set up right next to the one other person there.

The worst part is there’s places that they could have moved to since the RO moved them, but they chose to piss and moan instead of just fixing the situation. When the range is full and there’s no where you can go with nobody on either side there’s not much you can do other than let them move or leave if they have an issue with loud noises at a shooting range.

Fuck ‘em. The only mistake you made was not having a fat bastard in your range bag to spin on when they started bitching.

 

[stanley_white]

The Hide: “We need to grow the shooting sports and get more people to be 2A so we can keep doing what we love.”

Also The Hide: “I would have told that woman to shut her mouth, stop being a whiner, and either wear double hearing protection or don’t even show up!””

-Stan