Muzzle break. Thinking what I'm thinking? S*%# the bed!!

[Aimsmall55]

Okay. First off I had this break put on a year and a half ago On a 5R Remington 700 300 WinMag. One thing I did not like about it in the beginning was the recoil was reduced by only 15 to 20%. But still the gun was a shooter until recently. It was a solid 1/2 moa rifle with 215 bergers and 208 amaxs. It kinda started shooting worse and worse but I already had an AICS for it hoping it would improve it somewhat. NO GO. I shot it yesterday and it would put 2 in the same hole at 100 then fly one 2 1/2 " left. Every time it was "left flyers". So this morning I literally checked EVERYTHING NF NXS tracking, torque , base , ect. Then ..... DUH... I forgot about the break. So I heated it up and carefully removed it. Here's what I found!!!

If you'll look close, you can see where the bullet is actually contacting metal in the break itself. I thought the barrel was gone, but I only have 500 rounds down the tube.

What do you fellows think?? Am I correct in this assumption ??

 

[MosesTheTank]

Much more technically competent will jump on here soon enough, but I am doubting the concentricity of the brake mounting threads, or somehow the brake was mounted crooked or got knocked off center. Maybe have a smith chuck the barrel up and check those threads. I have heard numerous stories of factory threads being out of whack.

Which brake is it? I imagine that to be so far off center in the short distance of a brake that something is REALLY off center.

Edit: I am assuming the brake is thread mounted and the threads are factory.

 

[shoot4fun]

Maybe carbon build up in the brake? That could have caused bullet strikes by upsetting stability. Also, I notice carbon build up is really bad at the crown with a lot of brakes. Remove the brake, clean everything up and try again. If you have an ultrasonic cleaner this would be a good time to use it.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Much more technically competent will jump on here soon enough, but I am doubting the concentricity of the brake mounting threads, or somehow the brake was mounted crooked or got knocked off center. Maybe have a smith chuck the barrel up and check those threads. I have heard numerous stories of factory threads being out of whack.

Which brake is it? I imagine that to be so far off center in the short distance of a brake that something is REALLY off center.

Edit: I am assuming the brake is thread mounted and the threads are factory.

Actually , the threads were threaded by my good to go gun smith. Had no problems what so ever until recently. Had it breaked as soon as I bought the rifle. Haven't ever taken it off till today. Threads look good to go on the rifle.... Going to pull out my caliper in a few and measure the length of the threaded portion at 25% intervals just to make sure the thread lengths are contentric before the main barrel starts

 

[Aimsmall55]

Maybe carbon build up in the brake? That could have caused bullet strikes by upsetting stability. Also, I notice carbon build up is really bad at the crown with a lot of brakes. Remove the brake, clean everything up and try again. If you have an ultrasonic cleaner this would be a good time to use it.

You know... You're right. There's still some carbon build up even though I've brushed and brushed with bore tech on the threaded portion on the rifle. But still.... My gut tells me that break is fubared. Going from 1/2" then 2" at 100 yards AIN'T COOL. My buddy has a fte I will probably try if he will let me. But if not I've got a thruster with same threads at my deer camp. Only problem is my wife is on bed rest for 3 weeks till my little boy gets here.... I think he would want this sorted out before he enters this world

 

[mallrat]

I'd try it without the brake, just to eliminate the rifle as a problem.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Well I just put some GUN SLICK FOAM BORE CLEANER that turns copper blue in the break. Here's what I got. Is this normal??

 

[Aimsmall55]

Sorry forgot to put in in the last post

 

[shoot4fun]

I'd try it without the brake, just to eliminate the rifle as a problem.

+1 to this. Shoot it before the brake goes back on.

 

[SigsauerP229]

That looks normal to me. Any brake after enough rounds is going to have some copper deposits that the cleaner will show.

 

[Aimsmall55]

That looks normal to me. Any brake after enough rounds is going to have some copper deposits that the cleaner will show.

Got ya. What bothers me is the burrs towards the end of the break itself. Does this look normal??

 

[shoot4fun]

Now that I see it cleaner I would say that brake looks chewed up and either was made cheaply and eroded fast or has had bullet strikes. My Surgeon Scalpel 300WM has a FTE and I highly recommend them but I think it will not be a quick add on. The barrel should be countoured underneath the brake. I would suggest a LFB or FB brake from APA or Badger Thruster.

 

[gstaylorg]

Hot gas moving at very high speed/pressure can easily cut or erode metal, particularly at thin edges. From the limited amount I can see in the picture, I would say it could easily have been the cause of the erosion, rather than actual contact between bullet and brake. I know that taking hi-res pics that show as much as your eye can see up close is not easy, so I may be wrong. It seems to me as though letting your smith go over it is the best idea. Unless carbon buildup after many rounds caused the bullets to start hitting the edge of the brake, I'd be surprised if it was actual contact, but your smith can look at it and tell for sure. Best of luck with it.

 

[pinsandpitons]

May sound silly, but a close look down the bore (from both ends) with good light should reveal an off kilter condition. I don't know how tight the clearances are for that brake, but unless it's a gnats ass-hair, I would think that you could detect it. Maybe you've already tried that, but it's crazy what the human eye can see given a good reference frame (bore).

+1 on shooting sans brake to check the rifle/load.

 

[buffybuster]

Okay. First off I had this break put on a year and a half ago On a 5R Remington 700 300 WinMag. One thing I did not like about it in the beginning was the recoil was reduced by only 15 to 20%.

I stopped reading right there.

15-20% recoil reduction is UNACCEPTABLE for a muzzlebrake. There are lots of good ones, paperweight the one you have and get a good one. That WILL cut the recoil by ~40% and not affect accuracy.

 

[7magsavage]

My buddy had the same problem one day. We couldn't zero his rifle for shit. It sometimes would miss the whole sheet of paper at 100 yards. We first thought something was loose; stock, base, rings, but we retorqued everything and still no good. Finally he said the last time he shot it without the suppressor it shot fine. That made me scratch my head and I unscrewed the suppressor and sure enough you could see the faintest trace of copper at one place. We then proceeded to shoot a sub MOA group.
My advice is the same as others have said. Shoot it without the brake and I will bet ya a cup of coffee that you have similar results.

 

[Sonic Crack]

it sounds like you have been shooting this rifle with this brake and it was shooting well then went to shit. Your not going to up and start getting a strike on your brake.
What is your round count? do you need to adjust your seating depth to "chase the lands", carbon build up, dirty barrel, barrel shot out

 

[Aimsmall55]

it sounds like you have been shooting this rifle with this brake and it was shooting well then went to shit. Your not going to up and start getting a strike on your brake.
What is your round count? do you need to adjust your seating depth to "chase the lands", carbon build up, dirty barrel, barrel shot out

Rnd count is 700 or so at most. 3.625 coal with a 208 amax is good to go always. I looked very intensely at the brake last night and there were bullet striations at the end of the brake in certain places meaning IT WAS hitting the break.

So what I did was take a dremel and a cutter and cut down the burrs and also trimmed the inside edges down a bit. Then I opened up the port holes with a drill bit to get more recoil reduction. Them I took several tools and opened up the actual hole at the start of the break then deburred and chamfered. Then went to the crown and took 2 hours of carefully opening up the crown and and inside the "exit" part of the break. Using a caliper everything on the crown was concentric and I perfectly grinded down the crown so no nicks or burrs would be in the way.

I know what your all thinking ... Just get another break. Well , I would but my wife is pregnant (on bed rest) and this is the only real time I have until little man gets here.
Plus it's something to pass the time and I JUST WANNA SEE IF IT WORKS!!

 

[Layton]

Stating the obvious here but when is the last time you cleaned the copper out of your barrel?

L

 

[Aimsmall55]

Stating the obvious here but when is the last time you cleaned the copper out of your barrel?

L

I clean it every 30 to 50 rounds. As matter of fact I cleaned it the day i shot last when the flyers were everywhere

 

[Layton]

So much for that theory. I'm clueless.

L

 

[thrusty]

Aimsmall, you're always finding something interesting. As mentioned earlier, give it a go without the brake and report back. It's possible that your smith's work on the barrel threads was fine...you may just have a brake that isn't completely concentric...Projectiles causing little burrs over a length of time made it worse and you're really able to see it on the target now.

I honestly wouldn't try to make it work....unless you have something that you know is going to keep things indicated to the axis of the bore.
I'd rather you be there for your newborn than risk injury for a $100 muzzle brake. Just my 2cents.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Stating the obvious here but when is the last time you cleaned the copper out of your barrel?

L

So much for that theory. I'm clueless.

L

Well it's like I said , you could see the bullet marks on the end of the break. That's the culprit

 

[Layton]

I was just like the others in how you could have such good results and suddenly it take a dump on you if it's been hitting the break? And if just started hitting it then wth happened to cause that shift?

 

[Aimsmall55]

Stating the obvious here but when is the last time you cleaned the copper out of your barrel?

L

I was just like the others in how you could have such good results and suddenly it take a dump on you if it's been hitting the break? And if just started hitting it then wth happened to cause that shift?

Beats the hell out me. I am at loss. Ever since I put in that damned AICS is when the problems started. But I followed thrustys advice and just picked up a Surefire for 135$. Like he said better safe than sorry.

 

[wchartz]

I will give you a case that might explain this. I received my new build in 260 Rem. last year. I bought a break from a vendor on the Hide and had my 'smith install it on a standard Palma contour barrel. I believe it measures about .840" at the 25" length. The brake design had three elliptical cuts on each side and three round holes centered on top. The 'smith turned down the brake to barrel diameter. I started testing loads and some where around the twentieth shot the bullet struck about 6" low at the 100 yd. target. The next shot was off the target. I thought my scope was broken. I moved to a 50 yd. target and put one shot low on the target and the next two missed the target. I moved to the 25 yd. target and missed it. I moved to a 15 yd. target and missed it. I was bumfuzzled. Finally I looked at the bore and saw a bright copper mark and a ragged cut on the top center of the brake bore. I laid a straight edge on the brake and it was clearly at an angle to the rifle barrel. I called the 'smith and he was flabbergasted as he could not see how that was possible based on the way he indexed the barrel and brake. I sent it to him and he found the problem immediately. When the brake was turned down the metal was too thin around the three round holes on top. The originally round holes were now elliptical. The gas pressure had stretched the metal around the top holes throwing the brake out of line with the barrel bore and exterior of the barrel. A new brake was fitted without the top holes and the problem was solved. The old brake was so far out of line that the 'smith said that the next shot might have resulted in injury to me or bystanders.

 

[KYS]

Dump that brake and get a well respected and TESTED unit. Try a APA Fat Bastard or the Muscle Brake. They are very effective.

 

[RL15]

I would agree with shoot it without the brake at 200yds or more. 300WM is not known for long barrel life.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Dump that brake and get a well respected and TESTED unit. Try a APA Fat Bastard or the Muscle Brake. They are very effective.

What's wrong with the surefire?? It looks to me to be a hell of a lot better than the previous one?

 

[Aimsmall55]

I would agree with shoot it without the brake at 200yds or more. 300WM is not known for long barrel life.

I haven't put the new brake on yet and that's the first order of business

 

[mallrat]

Changing variables in the middle of the experiment? We (well I, anyway) are recommending you shoot it without a muzzle break to eliminate a variable and check the health of just the barrel.

 

[bodywerks]

I stopped reading right there.

15-20% recoil reduction is UNACCEPTABLE for a muzzlebrake. There are lots of good ones, paperweight the one you have and get a good one. That WILL cut the recoil by ~40% and not affect accuracy.

Same here. That type of brake is a junk way to reduce recoil. You need a non radial, 3-4 port brake like the apa little jimmy or fat bastard brake. My vote is fat bastard...

PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg

 

[winxp_man]

Throw that brake away. Go out get the Badger FTE and call it a day. Its what I had installed on my Rem 700 Sendero SF II 300 WM. .5 moa all day long for two years! I have about 500 rounds down the tube.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Throw that brake away. Go out get the Badger FTE and call it a day. Its what I had installed on my Rem 700 Sendero SF II 300 WM. .5 moa all day long for two years! I have about 500 rounds down the tube.

Are you talking about the surefire?

 

[KYS]

What's wrong with the surefire?? It looks to me to be a hell of a lot better than the previous one?

Nothing is wrong with them. They did however have a bad batch of brakes that were causing accuracy to go to shit. I had one and it had to be replaced to get the rifle to group at 100 yards.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Well I am freaking RELIEVED!!! I forgot about a break I had my 700 P. two 3 shot groups at 115 yards

 

[winxp_man]

aimsmall here is what I'm talking about.....

Also the Badger FTE brake is super easy to clean even if you don't have a ultrasonic cleaner.

 

[Aimsmall55]

aimsmall here is what I'm talking about.....

Also the Badger FTE brake is super easy to clean even if you don't have a ultrasonic cleaner.

It's good to go. That other brake is doing 50% at least recoil reduction and the groups are back where they should be. As for the sure fire, I bought an sps AAC SD Saturday so I just put it on that. Everything worked out. Thanks though.