Hunting & Fishing Muzzleloader advice...

[drew_235]

I purchased a Remington 700 MLS when they first came out around 1997, and it was a big step up from the punishment of 12 ga slug barrels for the area I hunted. I remember using Pyrodex 50grn pellets and sabots (Hornady?) that came in a little red plastic box. I felt as if no deer within 150 yards was safe. Fast forward 22 years, a break from deer hunting that saw me give away the 700 MLS to a friend in need, and here I am researching the latest and greatest. I'll be hunting in the upper Midwest, in a shotgun zone, so this would be the go-to weapon during the regular and muzzleloader seasons (scopes are allowed).

It appears that the CVA Optima and Accura both receive lots of positive reviews, and and can be had in a stainless steel barrel and black stock for less than $350. Is this the Savage Axis of the muzzleloader world or the Tikka T3x?
Also, are powder pellets still the easiest way to do things?

 

[myronman3]

I can’t help ya.....i’m a flintlock guy. But when i think of muzzleloaders, the first brand that comes to mind is thompson center. If it were me looking for a modern loader, it’d be a encore fx.

 

[2010Ruger]

I can vouch for the CVA optima, great bargain and extremely simple. Plenty accurate and capable to 150yds. My previous muzzle loader was a knight disc which shot well but was a pain to disassemble for cleaning, and cumbersome when fiddling with the plastic discs that hold the primer. With the CVA you break the action and remove the breech plug for cleaning or insert primer after loading. And yes for simplicity the pre formed powder pellets are the way to go. Check muzzleloaders.com that’s where I found a great deal on my optima.

 

[drew_235]

I can vouch for the CVA optima, great bargain and extremely simple. Plenty accurate and capable to 150yds. My previous muzzle loader was a knight disc which shot well but was a pain to disassemble for cleaning, and cumbersome when fiddling with the plastic discs that hold the primer. With the CVA you break the action and remove the breech plug for cleaning or insert primer after loading. And yes for simplicity the pre formed powder pellets are the way to go. Check muzzleloaders.com that’s where I found a great deal on my optima.

I have seen some of the prices at muzzleloaders.com, and they are very competitive and they have a $5 shipping deal right now. For $300 I can get a stainless/camo Optima. For an extra ~$50 I can get the Accura in stainless/black (on another site). I believe the only difference is the Bergara barrel, and I have nothing to compare it to regarding whether it is really worth the upgrade. How long have you had your Optima, and if you had to buy it again would you get the same model?

 

[Habituallinestepper]

Second that. Bought an Optima V2 about 7 years ago - super easy to break down and clean, good recoil pad, and very accurate. Bought the stainless one, not sure I'd go that route again, but I can't imagine there is a better value out there.

 

[Pre-64]

If you are looking for extended range and accuracy stay away from the pellets, if you have some weigh them, you may be surprised at the inconsistency in the pellets, I’ve seen as much as 15 grains difference per pellet, also if you’ve ever seen a smoke trail that looks like a corkscrew shooting out of your barrel that’s a unburned pellet. Do yourself a giant favor and try some Blackhorn 209. I’ve tried them all and it is by far the most accurate and consistent.

 

[drew_235]

It's funny that you mention the weight deltas between pellets. I remember using the pyrodex pellets that came in a slick little black box, stacked neatly in pairs, lifted with a pipe cleaner. When we ran out of those, my dad purchased a jug of white pellets with a label that said something like "clean shot." They were just dumped into this jug, bouncing around against each other. We still killed deer with them, but we weren't good enough shots to likely notice that the pellets were getting smaller and smaller each time the can bounced around on the drive to the range.
I have heard great things about Blackhorn 209 powder. I do a lot of shotgun reloading now, so I am not really intimidated by loose powder.

 

[2010Ruger]

Drew I have no experience with the accura but I can only imagine it’s better. I get 2-3” groups at 100yards using white hot pellets and hornady SST sabots with my optima which I believe is excellent for a muzzle loader. I’ve been hunting with the optima for 2 seasons now and have no complaints, would absolutely buy again.

 

[EternusVigilantia]

Disclaimer: I really love this shit way to much.

First and foremost you will never get the most out of your rifle until you shoot loose powder. Compression and proper pressure expansion can be repeated consistently giving you near repeatable speeds. My personal favorite is blackhorn209. Cleanest stuff I’ve ever shot. Also bullet sabot combo is important to create pressure from squeaking out. Found that the yellow tc 2 slit sabots sold 50 per pack and the hornady 45 cal ftx sold per 50 give you cloverleafs at 100. For your rifle, nothing better than a stainless TC encore pro hunter 28”. I ordered mine from Ed Arthur Brown co with the trigger job done and man what a shooter it is. I’ll never part with it, taken many deer and a black bear and love it. Now hears the trick, I love and I mean love front stuffers but it all came together when I watched this guy Russell Lynchs (USMC retired scout sniper) video on maximizing your muzzleloader dvd. It unlocked a new world for me. Best of luck with your search hope you get everything your after.

 

[loboman7x57]

CVA Accura V2 with 3 Hodgedon 777 pellets behind a powerbelt 295g aerotip shoots consistent 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards for me.

 

[drew_235]

CVA Accura V2 with 3 Hodgedon 777 pellets behind a powerbelt 295g aerotip shoots consistent 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards for me.

There seems to be great debate on the internet about using 150 grains of powder - have you ever tested your groups with just a pair of pellets instead of three?
I remember trying the three pellet thing once, and only once. It seemed uncomfortable, but I was a lot younger then.

 

[loboman7x57]

There seems to be great debate on the internet about using 150 grains of powder - have you ever tested your groups with just a pair of pellets instead of three?
I remember trying the three pellet thing once, and only once. It seemed uncomfortable, but I was a lot younger then.

i tried 2 pellets but accuracy with that bullet wasn't there. 3 pellets has a kick to it but i don't think its that bad with the stock design. recoil seems more of a push than a sharp punch.

 

[benwitt11]

I have had great luck with my TC Triumph, Blackhorn, and 240gn XTP’s. I don’t shoot a max load of powder, found more than acceptable accuracy and a lot more comfortable shooting at 20% or so off max, 80gn if I recall correctly. At the ranges I have to shoot the additional drop is nothing compared to the ole 870 I came from. It’s pleasant and effective.

 

[EternusVigilantia]

There are powder equivalencies for substitutes vs black powder max loads. Be careful in your load development. 120grn of blackhorn is equivalent to 150grn of black powder. So 80 grain is like 110 grain. You may approach pressures beyond your rifles capability to withstand. Also pyrodex and blackhorn are not a 1:1 substitute. So 3 pellets for 150grain pyrodex will not always replicate a desired result in blackhorn loose powder. It burns hotter and faster and bullet flight is way more consistent.

 

[striped1]

If your state allows them, pellets and sabot rounds and 209 primers are the way to go for ease and accuracy.

 

[reeljob]

Contact Jeff Hankins, tell him what you are looking for and be done with it. Hankins is the King of modern muzzleloading. We have taken deer ethically out to 865 yards. He stocks the V2 with his breechplug system or you can go all out for his LR rig.

 

[BigPineyTradingPost]

Blackhorn 209 powder for the win!

 

[Kayakfish1]

I have a .45cal cva accura with a bergara barrel on it. Running hornady 200gr ssy Sabots over 110gr 777 loose powder i get single hole groups at 100 running an average of 2067 fps.
45 is the way to go imo for a muzzleloader

 

[drew_235]

I have a .45cal cva accura with a bergara barrel on it. Running hornady 200gr ssy Sabots over 110gr 777 loose powder i get single hole groups at 100 running an average of 2067 fps.
45 is the way to go imo for a muzzleloader

That must be the LR "long range" version, right? I must admit that after doing a week of research, I'm torn between the 2 ends of their spectrum - getting a stainless Optima v2 for ~$250 or getting their nicest Accura MR with the nitride finish for ~$435. (Neither of which come in .45 cal)

Choices....

 

[Kayakfish1]

That must be the LR "long range" version, right? I must admit that after doing a week of research, I'm torn between the 2 ends of their spectrum - getting a stainless Optima v2 for ~$250 or getting their nicest Accura MR with the nitride finish for ~$435. (Neither of which come in .45 cal)

Choices....

It's an older one, before the "LR" version. I got a steal on mine, bought it used, in like new condition for $350 with a bunch of muzzle loading stuff from an older fellow that was getting out of hunting.
I got it right before the season but never saw a deer while I was hunting with it this season, my little sister was able to take her first buck with it tho.

 

[checkmate101]

I just got into muzzleloading last year. Ended up getting a CVA Accura V2. The thumbhole stock fit me really well so that is what I went with. I also really like the nitrided metal on the gun.

I went with loose powder, Blackhorn 209, for customizability and really like that. I shot with a friend who was using pellets and had to swab his bore every few shots. I never have to swab between shots and the BH 209 just keeps going. That alone is worth the cost to me, although I don't think there is a cheaper pellet alternative if you are looking at muzzle velocity and equating that between the two. My 10 year old daughter was the first one to take an animal with it this fall and it was her first kill ever, a nice whitetail doe.

I was able to get pretty consistent 3/4" groups at 118 yards (don't ask... the range I go to decided in their infinite wisdom to move the targets back from the prior 100 yards from the bench....).

I generally do a ton of research on stuff before making purchases. PM me if you want to discuss anything further, i'm happy to be of any help i can.

 

[checkmate101]

Also, try a few different bullet/sabot combos. Muzzleloading is basically like reloading each and every shot. Trial and error will be the name of the game to work up your load, but once found should be able to have a stable "go to" load for anything in North America. I have had really good luck with Harvester muzzleloading stuff. I got their 300 gr white lightning bullets with the Harvester EZ load sabots. The crush ribbed sabots loaded to loosely, the EZ load ones fit well in the CVA.

50 Cal. Sabot 300 gr. .451 Funnel Point Mag Bullet - Pack Qty: 20

Harvester Muzzleloading offers a belted bullet and the new crush rib sabot that crushes the competition. Also home to our new polymer tip bullet, Scorpion PT Gold.

www.harvestermuzzleloading.com

50 Cal Sabot for .429-.430 Cal Bullet - Pack Qty: 50

Harvester Sabots are precision engineered and manufactured to exact specifications and offer superior accuracy. Pack Qty: 50

www.harvestermuzzleloading.com

The folks at Harvester were great sources of info on it. They even sent me a couple other sabots to try out in my set up.

 

[checkmate101]

I just noticed you are from minnesota. Where are you at? If you are interested in shooting before buying, let me know. I'd be happy to hit the range with it some more.