Just wondering if there is any room in this section for muzzleloaders like the 1861 Springfield? I don't own one yet but will be purchasing one soon and would like to give and receive info with others. Check out the history in this weapon.
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muzzleloader sniper rifles?
- Thread starter AirborneFO
- Start date
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Offhand, I'd say there's no opposition. I can't provide info personally, but I'd welcome any such contributions myself.
Currently, my only M/L firearm is a modern 'traditional' sidelock percussion 'Cabela Traditions Shenandoah' profile .50cal 33" barreled rifle that is semi-retired from deer hunting. It's had some good days as a M/L Turkey Shoot rifle, as well. Patch and ball, it's OK out to about 75yd, beyond which things tend to wander. With modern power band bullets, it's been proven highly adequate out to 125yd, and should probably be so somewhat beyond. Terminal performance is no problem.
My Cabela's "Traditions" Shenandoah is an economy model/version of the original Traditions firearm. A gift from, an Elder Brother; it features a 33" 1:66" rifled barrel, and lacks the Traditions original patch box. Cheap and simple, it has a nice look and feel, has been most excellent for M/L Turkey Shoots, and has brought down some deer for me, too. I stoke it with either HDY .50cal patched ball or 285gr Power Belts, over 85gr of Pyrodex RS Select.
Greg
Offhand, I'd say there's no opposition. I can't provide info personally, but I'd welcome any such contributions myself.
Currently, my only M/L firearm is a modern 'traditional' sidelock percussion 'Cabela Traditions Shenandoah' profile .50cal 33" barreled rifle that is semi-retired from deer hunting. It's had some good days as a M/L Turkey Shoot rifle, as well. Patch and ball, it's OK out to about 75yd, beyond which things tend to wander. With modern power band bullets, it's been proven highly adequate out to 125yd, and should probably be so somewhat beyond. Terminal performance is no problem.
My Cabela's "Traditions" Shenandoah is an economy model/version of the original Traditions firearm. A gift from, an Elder Brother; it features a 33" 1:66" rifled barrel, and lacks the Traditions original patch box. Cheap and simple, it has a nice look and feel, has been most excellent for M/L Turkey Shoots, and has brought down some deer for me, too. I stoke it with either HDY .50cal patched ball or 285gr Power Belts, over 85gr of Pyrodex RS Select.
Greg
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
heck that's where they (S rifles) came from.
truely a "1 shot" rifle
heck that's where they (S rifles) came from.
truely a "1 shot" rifle
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Im up for it, I have a Euroarms P53 Enfield that i have taken potshots with out to 500 with it but never anything serious, those big .58 cal minnie's are easy to watch go down range too, leave a nice vapor trail. This summer i am thinking working with it at longer range.
Im up for it, I have a Euroarms P53 Enfield that i have taken potshots with out to 500 with it but never anything serious, those big .58 cal minnie's are easy to watch go down range too, leave a nice vapor trail. This summer i am thinking working with it at longer range.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Definitely room! No personal experience to offer, but I'm interested.
Definitely room! No personal experience to offer, but I'm interested.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Muzzle loaders have been pushed into the back of the closet by modern cartridge rifles. I think most Hide members would be shocked to see the level of accuracy that a well run muzzle loader can attain. There is a group at Oak Ridge TN shooting to 1000 and here in Cody we have a big match each June. These rifles are built to shoot bullets...not balls or sabots. We have a target here at the shop...5 shots, 100yds...right at 0.5". Shot with a rifle built in the 1870 time frame same rifle shot a 217/225 at 800,900,1000 in a match shot pre-1900
Muzzle loaders have been pushed into the back of the closet by modern cartridge rifles. I think most Hide members would be shocked to see the level of accuracy that a well run muzzle loader can attain. There is a group at Oak Ridge TN shooting to 1000 and here in Cody we have a big match each June. These rifles are built to shoot bullets...not balls or sabots. We have a target here at the shop...5 shots, 100yds...right at 0.5". Shot with a rifle built in the 1870 time frame same rifle shot a 217/225 at 800,900,1000 in a match shot pre-1900
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
When you read the exploits of the Confederate and Union sharpshooters you will be amazed. The Enfield or Whitworth rifles made life truly horrid for the opposing Army. Who would then hunt down the marksmen. During the siege of Charleston the Confederate marksmen were the only defense against the Union mortars when they could reach the gunners and spotters at 1,500 yards.
When you read the exploits of the Confederate and Union sharpshooters you will be amazed. The Enfield or Whitworth rifles made life truly horrid for the opposing Army. Who would then hunt down the marksmen. During the siege of Charleston the Confederate marksmen were the only defense against the Union mortars when they could reach the gunners and spotters at 1,500 yards.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Thanks guys, I will have to share when I purchase my Springfield. I also have very limited knowledge on black powder shooting but I will post as I learn.
This weekend I am going on a frontiersman campout; plenty of guys there with bp guns and knowledge so I will be asking lots of questions.
Thanks guys, I will have to share when I purchase my Springfield. I also have very limited knowledge on black powder shooting but I will post as I learn.
This weekend I am going on a frontiersman campout; plenty of guys there with bp guns and knowledge so I will be asking lots of questions.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this out :
http://johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm
</div></div>
I just read that article and saved it to my favorites. Thanks for the link. I will have to add the Whitworth to my list, I may just buy it first since it was possibly the first American sniper rifle used in combat. Can't wait to get shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this out :
http://johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm
</div></div>
I just read that article and saved it to my favorites. Thanks for the link. I will have to add the Whitworth to my list, I may just buy it first since it was possibly the first American sniper rifle used in combat. Can't wait to get shooting.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
What a awesome topic to start. Getting back to the roots of sniper rifles.
If anyone is thinking about building a reproduction civil war sniper rifle, I found these websites,
Scope
http://hi-luxoptics.com/product/riflescopes/malcolm-replica-scope-series/m6343216x/
Rifles
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologi...sion-rifle.html
Brock
What a awesome topic to start. Getting back to the roots of sniper rifles.
If anyone is thinking about building a reproduction civil war sniper rifle, I found these websites,
Scope
http://hi-luxoptics.com/product/riflescopes/malcolm-replica-scope-series/m6343216x/
Rifles
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologi...sion-rifle.html
Brock
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Cabela's has these rifles as well
http://www.cabelas.com/civil-war-1861-springfield.shtml
Brock
Cabela's has these rifles as well
http://www.cabelas.com/civil-war-1861-springfield.shtml
Brock
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
I think it would be awesome to have one in the collection to be able to take out and shoot and get a feel of what it was like to shoot long range back in the day.
Brock
I think it would be awesome to have one in the collection to be able to take out and shoot and get a feel of what it was like to shoot long range back in the day.
Brock
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Hell yeah! Welcome aboard. Great topic!
If you want the ultimate muzzle-loading 'sniper' rifle... check out Dixie Gunworks Whitworth.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=922
Short of the custom target rifles adapted by both sides (with false muzzles, set triggers, etc) these were about the most effective long range rifles of the civil war.
I've handled (but not shot) the Dixie replica. And it is superb in fit and finish. A bargain at the asking price The guys at Friendship shoot those things out to insane distances. You need a custom bullet mold. And playing with charges and alloys is worthwhile. Also, ditch the steel ramrod or at least make a false muzzle.
But if you are looking to get a front-stuffer sniper rifle, this is the TRG/AI/GAP of its day.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Hell yeah! Welcome aboard. Great topic!
If you want the ultimate muzzle-loading 'sniper' rifle... check out Dixie Gunworks Whitworth.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=922
Short of the custom target rifles adapted by both sides (with false muzzles, set triggers, etc) these were about the most effective long range rifles of the civil war.
I've handled (but not shot) the Dixie replica. And it is superb in fit and finish. A bargain at the asking price The guys at Friendship shoot those things out to insane distances. You need a custom bullet mold. And playing with charges and alloys is worthwhile. Also, ditch the steel ramrod or at least make a false muzzle.
But if you are looking to get a front-stuffer sniper rifle, this is the TRG/AI/GAP of its day.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
BTW, for those interested in the topic, read the book:
From Out of Nowhere: A history of the Military Sniper from the Revolutionary war to WW2. by Martin Pegler.
Fantastic look at the early days of sharpshooting with a lot of material about Morgans Riflemen (Revolutionary War) and Berdan's Riflemen (Civil War.)
If the subject keeps you interested, McBride's A Rifleman Went to War (WW1) is also a fantastic book about early military sniping and is a must read for anyone who enjoys the Vintage section.
I left my camera in the truck, but when I get the card out, I'll post some pictures of my latest 'stick.' Jacob Dickert styled flintlock Pennsylvania Rifle in .32. I did the initial work and I have Ed Hart doing the carving and engraving. Saw it Friday and it's unbelieveable. I took pictures. Done almost as a 'boys' rifle. Very tiny. About 80 percent scale. Big enough to be a full-size rifle, but everything done delicate and slender. Ed's doing an amazing job.
Cheers,
BTW, for those interested in the topic, read the book:
From Out of Nowhere: A history of the Military Sniper from the Revolutionary war to WW2. by Martin Pegler.
Fantastic look at the early days of sharpshooting with a lot of material about Morgans Riflemen (Revolutionary War) and Berdan's Riflemen (Civil War.)
If the subject keeps you interested, McBride's A Rifleman Went to War (WW1) is also a fantastic book about early military sniping and is a must read for anyone who enjoys the Vintage section.
I left my camera in the truck, but when I get the card out, I'll post some pictures of my latest 'stick.' Jacob Dickert styled flintlock Pennsylvania Rifle in .32. I did the initial work and I have Ed Hart doing the carving and engraving. Saw it Friday and it's unbelieveable. I took pictures. Done almost as a 'boys' rifle. Very tiny. About 80 percent scale. Big enough to be a full-size rifle, but everything done delicate and slender. Ed's doing an amazing job.
Cheers,
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
+1 for From Out of Nowhere: A history of the Military Sniper from the Revolutionary war to WW2. by Martin Pegler.
By far one of the best sniper books in my collection, another good book for Confederate sharpshooters during the war is "Shock Troops of the Confederacy. by Fred L. Ray, aside from a tun of information regarding confederate tactics and units there is a excellent section regarding period weapons used by sharpshooters on both sides, and testing original period weapons at long range out to 1440yrds, also contrary to popular belief whitworth's while excellent guns were not used widely (only about 1000 imported during the war iirc.)
+1 for From Out of Nowhere: A history of the Military Sniper from the Revolutionary war to WW2. by Martin Pegler.
By far one of the best sniper books in my collection, another good book for Confederate sharpshooters during the war is "Shock Troops of the Confederacy. by Fred L. Ray, aside from a tun of information regarding confederate tactics and units there is a excellent section regarding period weapons used by sharpshooters on both sides, and testing original period weapons at long range out to 1440yrds, also contrary to popular belief whitworth's while excellent guns were not used widely (only about 1000 imported during the war iirc.)
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Since we need some pics, here is a display i had set up at a muzzleloader trade fair in Fargo, Nd when i was in college with some reenactor buddies( I have done some reenactiting and living history in Mn) the rifle is a .58 cal P53 Enfield
ND Muzzle Loaders Trade Fair
I've got some better photos of the rifle just got to dig em up
Since we need some pics, here is a display i had set up at a muzzleloader trade fair in Fargo, Nd when i was in college with some reenactor buddies( I have done some reenactiting and living history in Mn) the rifle is a .58 cal P53 Enfield
ND Muzzle Loaders Trade Fair
I've got some better photos of the rifle just got to dig em up
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
One more photo showing the size of these old smoke poles, I am 6' 6"...
Confederate Soldier and Wife
One more photo showing the size of these old smoke poles, I am 6' 6"...
Confederate Soldier and Wife
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Nice rifle... lovely wife. But for a Confederate soldier... what's with the shoes? ;-)
Nice setup. Do you belong to a specific re-enacting unit/regiment?
When I lived near DC, I used to drive up to Gettysburg all the time. Even just for a few hours after work (from near Ft. Meade it's only about an hour +-) just to walk the battlefield. It's an amazing place. Especially in the spring and summer, the evenings were a good time to walk into some of the re-enacting camps and talk to folks there. Always great people and really into their roles and period.
Never got into the re-enacting, but love the history of it.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Nice rifle... lovely wife. But for a Confederate soldier... what's with the shoes? ;-)
Nice setup. Do you belong to a specific re-enacting unit/regiment?
When I lived near DC, I used to drive up to Gettysburg all the time. Even just for a few hours after work (from near Ft. Meade it's only about an hour +-) just to walk the battlefield. It's an amazing place. Especially in the spring and summer, the evenings were a good time to walk into some of the re-enacting camps and talk to folks there. Always great people and really into their roles and period.
Never got into the re-enacting, but love the history of it.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
As I mentioned, here are some pictures of the project I've been picking at for about 18 months. Got all the metal work and inletting done. It's at Ed Hart's shop in Ct. now (Black Hart Long Guns... check out his work...) for carving and engraving.
.32 cal in the style of Jacob Dickert. Curly maple stock w. all German Silver fittings. That's wrong period for true Dickert. He worked before German Silver became popular. But I love the way it looks, so went with it. It's very tiny. Pictures don't do it justice.
Should be done this spring... once the engraving/carving is done, the finishing is pretty quick. Stock will be reddish. Browned furniture.
Ed, BTW, was a Navy nuc submariner who started building Pennsylvania rifles while on cruises. He does it full time now and IMHO is a brilliant craftsman. His work shop is right out of the 19th Century.
Cheers,
Sirhr
As I mentioned, here are some pictures of the project I've been picking at for about 18 months. Got all the metal work and inletting done. It's at Ed Hart's shop in Ct. now (Black Hart Long Guns... check out his work...) for carving and engraving.
.32 cal in the style of Jacob Dickert. Curly maple stock w. all German Silver fittings. That's wrong period for true Dickert. He worked before German Silver became popular. But I love the way it looks, so went with it. It's very tiny. Pictures don't do it justice.
Should be done this spring... once the engraving/carving is done, the finishing is pretty quick. Stock will be reddish. Browned furniture.
Ed, BTW, was a Navy nuc submariner who started building Pennsylvania rifles while on cruises. He does it full time now and IMHO is a brilliant craftsman. His work shop is right out of the 19th Century.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Sirhr,
That guy is amazing, his work is crazy! I could spend hours looking at his builds. Here is a link for the lazy...
http://www.blackhartlongarms.com/
Sirhr,
That guy is amazing, his work is crazy! I could spend hours looking at his builds. Here is a link for the lazy...
http://www.blackhartlongarms.com/
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
http://www.therifleshoppe.com/online_catalog.htm
For the handy... and the aficionado of some really interesting early muzzle-loading firearms... these kits and parts from The Rifle Shoppe are first rate.
I got the lock and stock for the Dickert from Track of the Wolf. It's a Siler flintlock. Barrel, green mountain. Hardware in German silver was custom-poured and cut from sheet. The part I did, inletting, and metal work is not the hard part.
Ed is doing the hard stuff... a real master. I just don't have an eye for the carving.
Cheers,
Sirhr
http://www.therifleshoppe.com/online_catalog.htm
For the handy... and the aficionado of some really interesting early muzzle-loading firearms... these kits and parts from The Rifle Shoppe are first rate.
I got the lock and stock for the Dickert from Track of the Wolf. It's a Siler flintlock. Barrel, green mountain. Hardware in German silver was custom-poured and cut from sheet. The part I did, inletting, and metal work is not the hard part.
Ed is doing the hard stuff... a real master. I just don't have an eye for the carving.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Wow these are some really nice rifles. I never knew people still get into the custom building of these old smoke poles.
Wow these are some really nice rifles. I never knew people still get into the custom building of these old smoke poles.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
If you want to learn everything there is to know about muzzleloaders, then join up over here:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/
There's a lot of old-timers and just all around really nice guys on that forum. They've probably forgotten more about muzzleloading than I will ever know.
TVM makes the nicest rifles I've ever seen. I have been lusting after a TVM Late Lancaster in a nice dark finish with German silver hardware. They use Siler locks, which are basically the best.
http://www.avsia.com/tvm/
My current rifle, til I get a TVM LL is a Thompson Center Hawken .50 cal kinda like this one:
In PA we're limited to Flintlocks for hunting and can't use percussion caps in the late season so I just stick with them. I don't have any fancy-pants sabots or Pyrodex, just 2F and patched round balls.
If you want to learn everything there is to know about muzzleloaders, then join up over here:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/
There's a lot of old-timers and just all around really nice guys on that forum. They've probably forgotten more about muzzleloading than I will ever know.
TVM makes the nicest rifles I've ever seen. I have been lusting after a TVM Late Lancaster in a nice dark finish with German silver hardware. They use Siler locks, which are basically the best.
http://www.avsia.com/tvm/
My current rifle, til I get a TVM LL is a Thompson Center Hawken .50 cal kinda like this one:
In PA we're limited to Flintlocks for hunting and can't use percussion caps in the late season so I just stick with them. I don't have any fancy-pants sabots or Pyrodex, just 2F and patched round balls.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice rifle... lovely wife. But for a Confederate soldier... what's with the shoes? ;-)
Nice setup. Do you belong to a specific re-enacting unit/regiment?
Cheers,
Sirhr
</div></div>
Thanks, the shoes are some fancy dress shoes i got for dirt cheap, they actually look like a civilian mens shoe from the time i believe it is a fredricksburg style, ( i would have brogans but i wear a size 15-16 and wasnt about to drop $300+ on a pair of custom shoes lol) I don't belong to any specific unit but have fallen in with some units based around the twin cities area at MN events. I would like to do more events but living in SD has put a hamper on that, there's not much going on out in these parts.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice rifle... lovely wife. But for a Confederate soldier... what's with the shoes? ;-)
Nice setup. Do you belong to a specific re-enacting unit/regiment?
Cheers,
Sirhr
</div></div>
Thanks, the shoes are some fancy dress shoes i got for dirt cheap, they actually look like a civilian mens shoe from the time i believe it is a fredricksburg style, ( i would have brogans but i wear a size 15-16 and wasnt about to drop $300+ on a pair of custom shoes lol) I don't belong to any specific unit but have fallen in with some units based around the twin cities area at MN events. I would like to do more events but living in SD has put a hamper on that, there's not much going on out in these parts.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Thanks the info on the forum. Gonna have to head over there and see if I can learn something.
Thanks the info on the forum. Gonna have to head over there and see if I can learn something.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
I have made it home from my frontiersman campout and have just about decided on a rifle. One of the guys I camp with builds them and he does an awesome job. My first "real" reproduction will probably be a 54 cal flintlock Virginia longrifle built by him. I will be able to use it on our re-enactments, hunting, and get some good long range shooting out of it. Later on I would like to get a Whitworth, 1861 Sprigfield, and maybe some others but I better take them one at a time. We did a lot of flintlock shooting this weekend, awesome weapons.
Thanks to everyone for all of the feedback. I will have to join the muzzleloading forum and read all of those books.
I have made it home from my frontiersman campout and have just about decided on a rifle. One of the guys I camp with builds them and he does an awesome job. My first "real" reproduction will probably be a 54 cal flintlock Virginia longrifle built by him. I will be able to use it on our re-enactments, hunting, and get some good long range shooting out of it. Later on I would like to get a Whitworth, 1861 Sprigfield, and maybe some others but I better take them one at a time. We did a lot of flintlock shooting this weekend, awesome weapons.
Thanks to everyone for all of the feedback. I will have to join the muzzleloading forum and read all of those books.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
I'll have to look up my latest issue of Muzzle Blasts... but there is a group of re-enactors who have set up an original 'Ranger School' based on the original Rogers Rangers camp in Port Edwards New York. The reenactors, I think, are set up in Pa. But they have original barracks, camp, the works.
The article made it seem like they are pretty hardcore with teaching some of the original methods Rogers used in the French Indian Wars, including patroling, setting up camps, raiding, scouting, etc.
I'll dig up the magazine and post the link. Because it looked like a pretty neat reenacting event.
Cheers,
Sirhr
I'll have to look up my latest issue of Muzzle Blasts... but there is a group of re-enactors who have set up an original 'Ranger School' based on the original Rogers Rangers camp in Port Edwards New York. The reenactors, I think, are set up in Pa. But they have original barracks, camp, the works.
The article made it seem like they are pretty hardcore with teaching some of the original methods Rogers used in the French Indian Wars, including patroling, setting up camps, raiding, scouting, etc.
I'll dig up the magazine and post the link. Because it looked like a pretty neat reenacting event.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
We do have some hardcore re-enactors down here. Some of them look like they just came down out of the mountains hunting with Jeremiah Johnson. I have a period correct tent and clothing but that is about it. I enjoy getting out in God's creation without modern devices and having fellowship with friends. Good food, traditional hunting, black powder shooting, and good preaching= an awesome weekend.
We do have some hardcore re-enactors down here. Some of them look like they just came down out of the mountains hunting with Jeremiah Johnson. I have a period correct tent and clothing but that is about it. I enjoy getting out in God's creation without modern devices and having fellowship with friends. Good food, traditional hunting, black powder shooting, and good preaching= an awesome weekend.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longbowmech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bet that Rogers Rangers camp would be pretty awesome to see.</div></div>
Took me a while, because it was an issue or two back... The rendezvous is at Fort Frederick, Md.
www.friendsoffortfrederick.info/
The most recent 'Ranger school' ended last week. But more will be scheduled.
Looks pretty cool... includes live fire shooting.
Cheers,
Sirhr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longbowmech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bet that Rogers Rangers camp would be pretty awesome to see.</div></div>
Took me a while, because it was an issue or two back... The rendezvous is at Fort Frederick, Md.
www.friendsoffortfrederick.info/
The most recent 'Ranger school' ended last week. But more will be scheduled.
Looks pretty cool... includes live fire shooting.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longbowmech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bet that Rogers Rangers camp would be pretty awesome to see.</div></div>
Took me a while, because it was an issue or two back... The rendezvous is at Fort Frederick, Md.
www.friendsoffortfrederick.info/
The most recent 'Ranger school' ended last week. But more will be scheduled.
Looks pretty cool... includes live fire shooting.
Cheers,
Sirhr</div></div>
Thanks for link, this has definately opened my eyes to a whole new era of American military history.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longbowmech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bet that Rogers Rangers camp would be pretty awesome to see.</div></div>
Took me a while, because it was an issue or two back... The rendezvous is at Fort Frederick, Md.
www.friendsoffortfrederick.info/
The most recent 'Ranger school' ended last week. But more will be scheduled.
Looks pretty cool... includes live fire shooting.
Cheers,
Sirhr</div></div>
Thanks for link, this has definately opened my eyes to a whole new era of American military history.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifle Musket, cherished by both sides of the American Civil War for its stellar accuracy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The term “rifle-musket” meant that the rifle was the same length as the musket it replaced, because a long rifle was thought necessary to enable the muzzles of the second rank of soldiers to project beyond the faces of the men in front, ensuring that the weapon would be sufficiently long enough for a bayonet fight, should such an eventuality arise.</div></div>
Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifle Musket, cherished by both sides of the American Civil War for its stellar accuracy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The term “rifle-musket” meant that the rifle was the same length as the musket it replaced, because a long rifle was thought necessary to enable the muzzles of the second rank of soldiers to project beyond the faces of the men in front, ensuring that the weapon would be sufficiently long enough for a bayonet fight, should such an eventuality arise.</div></div>
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
If ya'll want to talk to some folks and read up on actually shooting civil war era arms for best accuracy, check out the North South Skirmish Association, www.n-ssa.org
if you're interested in civil war-era and post civil war percussion target rifles, used for 1000 yd shooting, etc., a great resource is Ned Roberts the Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle. muzzleloader science very advanced by the turn of the century when smokeless took over. Interesting stuff for sure.
If ya'll want to talk to some folks and read up on actually shooting civil war era arms for best accuracy, check out the North South Skirmish Association, www.n-ssa.org
if you're interested in civil war-era and post civil war percussion target rifles, used for 1000 yd shooting, etc., a great resource is Ned Roberts the Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle. muzzleloader science very advanced by the turn of the century when smokeless took over. Interesting stuff for sure.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this out :
http://johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm
</div></div>
I'm sure I'll get blasted by some of the Civil War history buffs. But there are several reports that single Whitworth shots fired from the Bleak House (Longstreets headquarters) in Knoxville to the Fort Sanders area. I think as the crow flies that's close to a mile. The story is told that the Confederate soldier doing the shooting would measure out his powder loads and put them in empty medicine bottles at night so he didn't have to mess with it when he was actually shooting.
I don't remember how many shots he made. But he must have been good at it. The lady at the museum always build it up. She must have been related. hahaha
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this out :
http://johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm
</div></div>
I'm sure I'll get blasted by some of the Civil War history buffs. But there are several reports that single Whitworth shots fired from the Bleak House (Longstreets headquarters) in Knoxville to the Fort Sanders area. I think as the crow flies that's close to a mile. The story is told that the Confederate soldier doing the shooting would measure out his powder loads and put them in empty medicine bottles at night so he didn't have to mess with it when he was actually shooting.
I don't remember how many shots he made. But he must have been good at it. The lady at the museum always build it up. She must have been related. hahaha
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this out :
http://johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm
</div></div>
I'm sure I'll get blasted by some of the Civil War history buffs. But there are several reports that single Whitworth shots fired from the Bleak House (Longstreets headquarters) in Knoxville to the Fort Sanders area. I think as the crow flies that's close to a mile. The story is told that the Confederate soldier doing the shooting would measure out his powder loads and put them in empty medicine bottles at night so he didn't have to mess with it when he was actually shooting.
I don't remember how many shots he made. But he must have been good at it. The lady at the museum always build it up. She must have been related. hahaha </div></div>
Awesome story, it is worth some research.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this out :
http://johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm
</div></div>
I'm sure I'll get blasted by some of the Civil War history buffs. But there are several reports that single Whitworth shots fired from the Bleak House (Longstreets headquarters) in Knoxville to the Fort Sanders area. I think as the crow flies that's close to a mile. The story is told that the Confederate soldier doing the shooting would measure out his powder loads and put them in empty medicine bottles at night so he didn't have to mess with it when he was actually shooting.
I don't remember how many shots he made. But he must have been good at it. The lady at the museum always build it up. She must have been related. hahaha </div></div>
Awesome story, it is worth some research.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
I took up the research challenge and checked my book "Sniper" by Adrian Gilbert.
Contemporary tests they did on the Whitworth and the Kerr rifles (the other major Sniper Rifle used by the Confederates) showed that at 800 yds, the Whitworth could hold a 12" circle consistently -- good for military snipers.
At 1800 yards, the mean deviation showed up as 11.63 feet. Though there was still more than enough energy to kill a person. So body shots at 1800 yds were certainly dooable, but combined skill with 'luck' that your target would be in the right place in that circle.
I have little doubt that a sharpshooter could make a quite few hits out at that range during a career.
The Kerr, even better than a Whitworth, used a tighter-fitting heavier bullet and a huge powder charge. It was more consistent out to 1800 yards.
Couple of other bits of trivia from Gilbert... the shot that killed Gen. Sedgewick ("they couldn't hit an Elephant at this range") was a head shot from a Whitworth at c. 700 yards. Based on the tested accuracy of the Whitworth, it would have been a lucky shot... inside the 12 inch circle, but it could have easily been a near miss.
And the Whitworth cost $500 per rifle! Staggering sum at the time. A Sharps rifle (Union) cost $43.
Last, Hiram Berdan's standards for his 'Berdans Sharpshooters' were: Body shot every time at 220 yards. Body shot 2 out of 3 times at 1/4 mile. And body shot 3 out of 5 times at 1/2 mile.
Berdan equipped his men with Sharps rifles, the breechloaders giving a distinct advantage over the Whitworth/Kerr rifles which loaded from the front and, in the case of the Kerr, used a bullet that was very tight and almost had to be hammered in. Loading a Kerr in battle was no small matter.
More on the Kerr:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~orphanhm/sharpshooters.htm
Great thread!!!
Cheers,
Sirhr
I took up the research challenge and checked my book "Sniper" by Adrian Gilbert.
Contemporary tests they did on the Whitworth and the Kerr rifles (the other major Sniper Rifle used by the Confederates) showed that at 800 yds, the Whitworth could hold a 12" circle consistently -- good for military snipers.
At 1800 yards, the mean deviation showed up as 11.63 feet. Though there was still more than enough energy to kill a person. So body shots at 1800 yds were certainly dooable, but combined skill with 'luck' that your target would be in the right place in that circle.
I have little doubt that a sharpshooter could make a quite few hits out at that range during a career.
The Kerr, even better than a Whitworth, used a tighter-fitting heavier bullet and a huge powder charge. It was more consistent out to 1800 yards.
Couple of other bits of trivia from Gilbert... the shot that killed Gen. Sedgewick ("they couldn't hit an Elephant at this range") was a head shot from a Whitworth at c. 700 yards. Based on the tested accuracy of the Whitworth, it would have been a lucky shot... inside the 12 inch circle, but it could have easily been a near miss.
And the Whitworth cost $500 per rifle! Staggering sum at the time. A Sharps rifle (Union) cost $43.
Last, Hiram Berdan's standards for his 'Berdans Sharpshooters' were: Body shot every time at 220 yards. Body shot 2 out of 3 times at 1/4 mile. And body shot 3 out of 5 times at 1/2 mile.
Berdan equipped his men with Sharps rifles, the breechloaders giving a distinct advantage over the Whitworth/Kerr rifles which loaded from the front and, in the case of the Kerr, used a bullet that was very tight and almost had to be hammered in. Loading a Kerr in battle was no small matter.
More on the Kerr:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~orphanhm/sharpshooters.htm
Great thread!!!
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
[/quote]
And the Whitworth cost $500 per rifle! Staggering sum at the time. A Sharps rifle (Union) cost $43.
[/quote]
$500 for a rifle in the 1800's! No wonder there were'nt very many on the battlefield. I can't complain about paying $1,300 then.
[/quote]
And the Whitworth cost $500 per rifle! Staggering sum at the time. A Sharps rifle (Union) cost $43.
[/quote]
$500 for a rifle in the 1800's! No wonder there were'nt very many on the battlefield. I can't complain about paying $1,300 then.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Sounds like the Whitworth was the shiznit back in the day for accurate long range shooting. Taking 700 yards plus shots with a muzzleloader and hitting the mark is very impressive.
Sounds like the Whitworth was the shiznit back in the day for accurate long range shooting. Taking 700 yards plus shots with a muzzleloader and hitting the mark is very impressive.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Berdan equipped his men with Sharps rifles, the breechloaders giving a distinct advantage over the Whitworth/Kerr rifles which loaded from the front and, in the case of the Kerr, used a bullet that was very tight and almost had to be hammered in. Loading a Kerr in battle was no small matter.</div></div>
An advantage ... to an extent. Check out the article in the October (I think) issue of American Rifleman re: the Gibbs target rifle. Good stuff re: post-civil war 1000 yd matches between the British (Irish, Scottish) and the Americans. The British used muzzleloading rifles, the Americans used breechloaders. The Americans cleaned the barrels of their breechloaders after every shot. When challenged to a match where the contestants were not allowed to clean between shots, it was almost a no-contest win for the British.
So ... the breechloader was definitely much quicker to load. But the accuracy degraded pretty quickly the more it was shot. There's discussion about this in Ned Roberts' book as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Berdan equipped his men with Sharps rifles, the breechloaders giving a distinct advantage over the Whitworth/Kerr rifles which loaded from the front and, in the case of the Kerr, used a bullet that was very tight and almost had to be hammered in. Loading a Kerr in battle was no small matter.</div></div>
An advantage ... to an extent. Check out the article in the October (I think) issue of American Rifleman re: the Gibbs target rifle. Good stuff re: post-civil war 1000 yd matches between the British (Irish, Scottish) and the Americans. The British used muzzleloading rifles, the Americans used breechloaders. The Americans cleaned the barrels of their breechloaders after every shot. When challenged to a match where the contestants were not allowed to clean between shots, it was almost a no-contest win for the British.
So ... the breechloader was definitely much quicker to load. But the accuracy degraded pretty quickly the more it was shot. There's discussion about this in Ned Roberts' book as well.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Hahco... absolutely right in terms of accuracy... and on the range, I would give a big edge to a Gibbs, Kerr or Whitworth.
The advantage on the battlefield was not in accuracy, but in that the Sharps-equipped snipers could reload from cover or from their hide. To reload a Kerr while in a tree or prone... must have been a heck of an art-form!
Berdan was willing to sacrifice some of the inherent accuracy of the muzzle-loaders for lower cost (meant more sharpshooters on a budget), 'safer' reloading and volume of fire only achieveable with a breech-loader. That said, he had pretty high standards even if somewhat higher volume fire was part of his goal.
These weren't the only guns snipers used, only. Plenty of 'false muzzle' scheutzen and target rifles were used by their owners, especially by soldiers from some of the German, Swiss and Austrian communities in the North. Those were also 1000 yd (plus) rifles.
I enjoyed that AR article on the Gibbs. I might have posted it here... can't remember. But I very much lust after one of those!
Cheers and excellent points Hahco!
Sirhr
Hahco... absolutely right in terms of accuracy... and on the range, I would give a big edge to a Gibbs, Kerr or Whitworth.
The advantage on the battlefield was not in accuracy, but in that the Sharps-equipped snipers could reload from cover or from their hide. To reload a Kerr while in a tree or prone... must have been a heck of an art-form!
Berdan was willing to sacrifice some of the inherent accuracy of the muzzle-loaders for lower cost (meant more sharpshooters on a budget), 'safer' reloading and volume of fire only achieveable with a breech-loader. That said, he had pretty high standards even if somewhat higher volume fire was part of his goal.
These weren't the only guns snipers used, only. Plenty of 'false muzzle' scheutzen and target rifles were used by their owners, especially by soldiers from some of the German, Swiss and Austrian communities in the North. Those were also 1000 yd (plus) rifles.
I enjoyed that AR article on the Gibbs. I might have posted it here... can't remember. But I very much lust after one of those!
Cheers and excellent points Hahco!
Sirhr
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hahco</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Berdan equipped his men with Sharps rifles, the breechloaders giving a distinct advantage over the Whitworth/Kerr rifles which loaded from the front and, in the case of the Kerr, used a bullet that was very tight and almost had to be hammered in. Loading a Kerr in battle was no small matter.</div></div>
An advantage ... to an extent. Check out the article in the October (I think) issue of American Rifleman re: the Gibbs target rifle. Good stuff re: post-civil war 1000 yd matches between the British (Irish, Scottish) and the Americans. The British used muzzleloading rifles, the Americans used breechloaders. The Americans cleaned the barrels of their breechloaders after every shot. When challenged to a match where the contestants were not allowed to clean between shots, it was almost a no-contest win for the British.
So ... the breechloader was definitely much quicker to load. But the accuracy degraded pretty quickly the more it was shot. There's discussion about this in Ned Roberts' book as well. </div></div>
Correction, it's the November issue of American Rifleman and the rifle discussed is the Rigby. The "British" shooting team was Irish.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hahco</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Berdan equipped his men with Sharps rifles, the breechloaders giving a distinct advantage over the Whitworth/Kerr rifles which loaded from the front and, in the case of the Kerr, used a bullet that was very tight and almost had to be hammered in. Loading a Kerr in battle was no small matter.</div></div>
An advantage ... to an extent. Check out the article in the October (I think) issue of American Rifleman re: the Gibbs target rifle. Good stuff re: post-civil war 1000 yd matches between the British (Irish, Scottish) and the Americans. The British used muzzleloading rifles, the Americans used breechloaders. The Americans cleaned the barrels of their breechloaders after every shot. When challenged to a match where the contestants were not allowed to clean between shots, it was almost a no-contest win for the British.
So ... the breechloader was definitely much quicker to load. But the accuracy degraded pretty quickly the more it was shot. There's discussion about this in Ned Roberts' book as well. </div></div>
Correction, it's the November issue of American Rifleman and the rifle discussed is the Rigby. The "British" shooting team was Irish.
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hahco... absolutely right in terms of accuracy... and on the range, I would give a big edge to a Gibbs, Kerr or Whitworth.
The advantage on the battlefield was not in accuracy, but in that the Sharps-equipped snipers could reload from cover or from their hide. To reload a Kerr while in a tree or prone... must have been a heck of an art-form!
Berdan was willing to sacrifice some of the inherent accuracy of the muzzle-loaders for lower cost (meant more sharpshooters on a budget), 'safer' reloading and volume of fire only achieveable with a breech-loader. That said, he had pretty high standards even if somewhat higher volume fire was part of his goal.
These weren't the only guns snipers used, only. Plenty of 'false muzzle' scheutzen and target rifles were used by their owners, especially by soldiers from some of the German, Swiss and Austrian communities in the North. Those were also 1000 yd (plus) rifles.
I enjoyed that AR article on the Gibbs. I might have posted it here... can't remember. But I very much lust after one of those!
Cheers and excellent points Hahco!
Sirhr </div></div>
That reloading issue is a good point. Ppl wonder why armies would just stand up and shoot at each other during the muzzleloader days ... part of it was because it was much easier and quicker to reload a ML if you were standing up.
For a long time, the false-muzzle target rifle was considered the most accurate piece that could be created. It took years for ppl to be convinced that a breechloader could be as accurate. some of us are still unconvinced
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hahco... absolutely right in terms of accuracy... and on the range, I would give a big edge to a Gibbs, Kerr or Whitworth.
The advantage on the battlefield was not in accuracy, but in that the Sharps-equipped snipers could reload from cover or from their hide. To reload a Kerr while in a tree or prone... must have been a heck of an art-form!
Berdan was willing to sacrifice some of the inherent accuracy of the muzzle-loaders for lower cost (meant more sharpshooters on a budget), 'safer' reloading and volume of fire only achieveable with a breech-loader. That said, he had pretty high standards even if somewhat higher volume fire was part of his goal.
These weren't the only guns snipers used, only. Plenty of 'false muzzle' scheutzen and target rifles were used by their owners, especially by soldiers from some of the German, Swiss and Austrian communities in the North. Those were also 1000 yd (plus) rifles.
I enjoyed that AR article on the Gibbs. I might have posted it here... can't remember. But I very much lust after one of those!
Cheers and excellent points Hahco!
Sirhr </div></div>
That reloading issue is a good point. Ppl wonder why armies would just stand up and shoot at each other during the muzzleloader days ... part of it was because it was much easier and quicker to reload a ML if you were standing up.
For a long time, the false-muzzle target rifle was considered the most accurate piece that could be created. It took years for ppl to be convinced that a breechloader could be as accurate. some of us are still unconvinced
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
a topic near and dear to my heart. I love these big old target or "sniper" muzzleloaders. My oldest one 1860's (told it was a "civil war sniper rifle") Who knows? maybe just a fancy target rifle. Build by Pierce. It is now shot as a 2 piece slug gun. It took first place at a camp perry shoot in 1955 at 600 yrds (shot by lester cox and clyde hill) and still holds it own at 100yrd shooting by 2 previous owners. (names maybe familiar to Friendship slug gun shooters) I dont care for the added scope blocks. The metal/wood aperature sites are cool
Sight from an old bank token
a topic near and dear to my heart. I love these big old target or "sniper" muzzleloaders. My oldest one 1860's (told it was a "civil war sniper rifle") Who knows? maybe just a fancy target rifle. Build by Pierce. It is now shot as a 2 piece slug gun. It took first place at a camp perry shoot in 1955 at 600 yrds (shot by lester cox and clyde hill) and still holds it own at 100yrd shooting by 2 previous owners. (names maybe familiar to Friendship slug gun shooters) I dont care for the added scope blocks. The metal/wood aperature sites are cool
Sight from an old bank token
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
I also shoot more modern versions, some slug and some roundball. Anyone who thinks this is easy should give it a try. When I want to relax, I shoot centerfire! Just picking up the rifle (some of mine are 80lbs plus), standing it up, reload with loose powder, trying to use the same pressure in loading projectile and depth etc, cleaning the same between shots so the barrel is always consistent, moving back to bench (now forgetting your sight picture as each shot is a brand new shot), shoot and repeat. It is quite a challenge. My slug guns shoot projectiles from 500 grains to 1750 grains. Charges range from 150-300+ grains of blackpowder. Locks are mostly underhammer with sealed ignition for the pressures used although I do have one flintlock. They are quite accurate and I love showing what they can do while using blackpowder and aperature sightis. Some of the morris guns (rb and slug)
A morris slug gun, mitchell scope
Morris round ball,Redfield aperature sights Even the roundball guns are accurate.
The big .69 caliber 80lbs plus, Mitchell scope
.69 barrel next to a 1" bull barrel so you have some idea
flinter
Some slugs for one gun 600 grain or so, 2 part slugs (rear pure lead, nose lead/tin) swaged together, fully custom profiles, you figure out what works
I also shoot more modern versions, some slug and some roundball. Anyone who thinks this is easy should give it a try. When I want to relax, I shoot centerfire! Just picking up the rifle (some of mine are 80lbs plus), standing it up, reload with loose powder, trying to use the same pressure in loading projectile and depth etc, cleaning the same between shots so the barrel is always consistent, moving back to bench (now forgetting your sight picture as each shot is a brand new shot), shoot and repeat. It is quite a challenge. My slug guns shoot projectiles from 500 grains to 1750 grains. Charges range from 150-300+ grains of blackpowder. Locks are mostly underhammer with sealed ignition for the pressures used although I do have one flintlock. They are quite accurate and I love showing what they can do while using blackpowder and aperature sightis. Some of the morris guns (rb and slug)
A morris slug gun, mitchell scope
Morris round ball,Redfield aperature sights Even the roundball guns are accurate.
The big .69 caliber 80lbs plus, Mitchell scope
.69 barrel next to a 1" bull barrel so you have some idea
flinter
Some slugs for one gun 600 grain or so, 2 part slugs (rear pure lead, nose lead/tin) swaged together, fully custom profiles, you figure out what works
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plastikosmd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot more modern versions, some slug and some roundball. Anyone who thinks this is easy should give it a try. When I want to relax, I shoot centerfire! Just picking up the rifle (some of mine are 80lbs plus), standing it up, reload with loose powder, trying to use the same pressure in loading projectile and depth etc, cleaning the same between shots so the barrel is always consistent, moving back to bench (now forgetting your sight picture as each shot is a brand new shot), shoot and repeat. It is quite a challenge. My slug guns shoot projectiles from 500 grains to 1750 grains. Charges range from 150-300+ grains of blackpowder. Locks are mostly underhammer with sealed ignition for the pressures used although I do have one flintlock. They are quite accurate and I love showing what they can do while using blackpowder and aperature sightis. Some of the morris guns (rb and slug)
A morris slug gun, mitchell scope
Morris round ball,Redfield aperature sights Even the roundball guns are accurate.
The big .69 caliber 80lbs plus, Mitchell scope
.69 barrel next to a 1" bull barrel so you have some idea
flinter
Some slugs for one gun 600 grain or so, 2 part slugs (rear pure lead, nose lead/tin) swaged together, fully custom profiles, you figure out what works
</div></div>
Those are very cool
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: plastikosmd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot more modern versions, some slug and some roundball. Anyone who thinks this is easy should give it a try. When I want to relax, I shoot centerfire! Just picking up the rifle (some of mine are 80lbs plus), standing it up, reload with loose powder, trying to use the same pressure in loading projectile and depth etc, cleaning the same between shots so the barrel is always consistent, moving back to bench (now forgetting your sight picture as each shot is a brand new shot), shoot and repeat. It is quite a challenge. My slug guns shoot projectiles from 500 grains to 1750 grains. Charges range from 150-300+ grains of blackpowder. Locks are mostly underhammer with sealed ignition for the pressures used although I do have one flintlock. They are quite accurate and I love showing what they can do while using blackpowder and aperature sightis. Some of the morris guns (rb and slug)
A morris slug gun, mitchell scope
Morris round ball,Redfield aperature sights Even the roundball guns are accurate.
The big .69 caliber 80lbs plus, Mitchell scope
.69 barrel next to a 1" bull barrel so you have some idea
flinter
Some slugs for one gun 600 grain or so, 2 part slugs (rear pure lead, nose lead/tin) swaged together, fully custom profiles, you figure out what works
Those are very cool
Re: muzzleloader sniper rifles?
Hey plastikosmd, that Morris gives new meaning to heavy barrel! I have never seen anything like that before. I am realizing everyday how much I don't know and how much I have to learn. Awesome rifles.
Hey plastikosmd, that Morris gives new meaning to heavy barrel! I have never seen anything like that before. I am realizing everyday how much I don't know and how much I have to learn. Awesome rifles.
