F T/R Competition My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

B

b_4

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Minuteman
Nov 28, 2011
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Bexar County, TX
#1
OK, I am going to attend an F-Class 500 yard event Saturday to check things out, see the firearms and learn. I am a long time hunter and a decent shot to 200 yards with an interest in finally going long range. My best shot is a neck shot of a wild turkey, prone with my 25-06 resting on the bottom wire of a barbed wire fence from exactly 200 yards.

So I'm ready to learn about going 300 to 600 as the next step and I am considering the following rig:

Remington 700 5R Milspec .308 with 24 inch barrel
Sightron SIII 8-32x56 (Still debating the Reticle)
Badger Base with 20 MOA cant
Badger Rings

This will get me started for about $2,200. Any feedback from the F-Class forum would be welcome.
 
#3
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

That'll work great. However, if you plan to use the rifle MOSTLY for FTR, I recommend a longer barrel...as long as you can handle to squeeze as much velocity as possible - the tradeoff of course being weight and "handiness".

Honestly, the Savage FTR rifle is gonna be tough to beat for that game!

That said, if you desire the rifle be more "tactical", and want it shorter and handier, 24" will be competitive. I missed High Master this year by .1% with my 24" Savage 10FP.
 
#4
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

Thanks! Yes, I have gone round and round with the Savage v Remington debate....My understanding was 2-inches of barrel was not that significant in muzzle velocity (20-30 fps). My plan is to get an entry rig that will me more accurate than me between 300 and 600 yards. Learn my game at that range, including reloading, then take the next step by rebarreling etc. What I've read about Savage stocks was a little concerning but their triggers sound great.

I am open to ideas; however, I also know the Remington / Savage debate will never be answered in a thread. FYI my 25-06 is a Browning A-Bolt with BOSS and my 22-250 (Father's old gun) is a 26-inch custom on a Sako action. I do not own a Remington or Savage.

My goal - get in with a rig that will give positive feedback and learn.
 
#5
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

That will work fine for starter rig, I shot a Remington SPS to start and did fine with it while I got a chance to watch and learn from some others. I'm using the same scope, Target Dot or Long Range Target Dot are the two I would look at. The LRTD has finer cross hairs and smaller center dot and 1/8 MOA adjustment. I think it's probably the better choice although I went with the TD. The larger center dot on the TD does pretty much cover up the X on the F-Class target but I was afraid my old eyes would lose the smaller dot.

A couple things you didn't mention, bipod and rear bag. You'll want a mat too but doesn't have to be shooting mat. I've seen moving pads and other similar things used as a mat. You'll be able to see spotter and scoring disk when you're shooting but will need something (besides your scope) when you're scoring for the other shooter you are paired with. Good binoculars will work if you don't have spotting scope. You might try calling or sending email to the match director to let them know you are coming. Sometimes they have or can find extra gear to loan new shooters for their first matches. Best of luck!
 
#6
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

The match director knows I'm coming to observe. I wont be shooting but I th ought it would be wise to have a look about before I started buying gear. I own a Harris Bipod already, 6-9 fixed and I have a 45X spotting scope. I figure it will be a while before I compete. I will have to break the rifle in and get confident and familiar with the equipment at distance.

I appreciate the replies. I have been studying threads on this site for some time and I have to be honest this is exceeeding my expectations for a rookie post on a new site.

Thanks!
 
#7
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

b-4, having three Remington 700's, I am obviously a fan, but if you are primarily going to using this rifle for F/TR I would seriously take another look at the Savage Model 12 F/TR, model #18154 I believe. I am not sure what model you are looking at but the F/TR Savage has a 30 inch barrel, it was built primarily for F-Class and theres more than a few shooters on here, shooting this rifle.
 
#8
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

Thanks MJH. I'll try to do some reading and searching on that rifle. It will be primarliy for target but every rifle I have ever owned has been capable of being taken into the field.
 
#11
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

I have been doing ok with a Rem 5r at 600 and 1000 yd matches. Even winning a match a few times not overall tho..
against a few custom rifles.
After shooting F-TR for about a year now i am ready for more barrel,I have a 31" in my hands now if i could just find a smith that was not so busy....
 
#12
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

My point about the Savage FTR rifle wasnt based on "Savage", but rather, the fact it's got a 30" barrel. I don't know of any other factory rifles anywhere near the price of that one with a long barrel.

No, yiu don't NEED it, but in the f class game, it's helpful. The FTR also has a very, very heavy contour.

The Savage/Remington debate SHALL NOT be argued here. All can agree both are good.
 
#13
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

That was a good question though. Dedicated F-Class gun or not. I am more interested in learning long range shooting and enjoying myself.

I think spending this Saturday at an F-class match will be helpful
 
#14
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

I have the Sightron SIII in 8-32X56 with the fine crosshair, great scope for the money, it tracks great and glass is very clear, plenty good for black on white target shooting at known distances.
good choice.
 
#15
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: b_4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow...so that is two votes for the Savage. I know what I am going to be reading the next few days. Keep it coming!

Thanks! </div></div>

Make that 3 on the savage! More than half of the guys I shoot with are Savage rifles. The Savage 12 FT/R a person above me stated is a very good rifle out of the box and will get you started. Now the question is, do you really want to settle with a .308 on an F/TR rifle? you may want to reconsider looking at different cartridges like 6.5 Grendel, 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, 284 are some that have very good bullet BC's.
 
#16
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

4 I shoot a Savage in F/TR tooo
grin.gif
 
#18
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

Well the match got rained out last night. I talked with the match director on the phone though. He glowed about teh Savage 12 F/TR. Says it shoots as well as his custom. So it will probably be the Savage 12 F/TR.

Now as far as the Sightron Scope, my power options are 8-32x56 or 10-50x60 and

Reticle choices are:

LRTDTDT
SIIISS8-32x56LRTDTDT.jpg


LRMOA
SIIISS8-32x56LRMOARet.jpg


LRFCH
SIIISS1050x60LRFCHret.jpg



I am leaning towards the 8-32x56 LRMOA. Thoughts?
 
#19
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

I just put a Sightron 10X50 on my Fclass rifle. It is outstanding,I can finally see the X in the Xring. I also had to fix a minor prolem,the mounting holes on the receiver were drilled crooked. Got windage adjustable mounts and rings from Conetrol in Seguin,Texas. If you ever have that problem,ther're good folks to go to. One phone call on a Sunday and 2 days later I had my rings.
 
#20
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sarge7174</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just put a Sightron 10X50 on my Fclass rifle. It is outstanding,I can finally see the X in the Xring. I also had to fix a minor prolem,the mounting holes on the receiver were drilled crooked. Got windage adjustable mounts and rings from Conetrol in Seguin,Texas. If you ever have that problem,ther're good folks to go to. One phone call on a Sunday and 2 days later I had my rings.
</div></div>

What reticle?
 
#21
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

I have savage and Remington rifles. I feel that the savage is better quality. The Remington seems sloppy. However, I only shoot the Remington in competition. Mine is a 24" barrel.
 
#22
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

**Update**

Savage 12 F/TR has been purchaced waiting for it to get to my FFL
Sightron SIII 8-32x56 LRTD/TDT purchaced & shipped (got a good deal IMHO)

Now I need to decide on bases and rings. I am a little surprised at the prices and I read the thread on the subject in this forum, Aye corumba! I am considering Farrell, may call DNZ to see what they can offer. Gonna get a 20 moa cant on the base.
 
#24
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Farrell & Nightforce both make excellent rings & bases. </div></div>

Thanks Darrell. This is an adventure for me and I want to get good value getting my Sightron glued to that Savage action.
 
#25
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

Target dot will be a fine choice for learning, but there is a reason that most top shooters do not use a dot in the center of their scope of choice. I am not trying to offend anyone, and anything that keeps people shooting is great so please let no one take offense, but the cross hair reticle is inherently more accurate because you are not covering as much surface area with your reticle and therefore aiming smaller. In the Patriot Mel Gibson's character used the line, "aim small, miss small." There is actually a lot of truth to that. After you make your first shot you can adjust your sights to that sighter and then aim for that exact spot. With a target dot, you will be at the mercy of whatever area that is being covered even if it is the small 1/8 moa dot. The 1/8 moa dot would cover a little over 1.25 inches at 1000 yards. That could be the difference between an X and a 10 or a 10 and a 9. Anyway this opinion and $1.50 will probably not buy a coke but it is what I have seen to be true. Good luck and happy shooting!

Sethro Out
 
#26
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sethro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Target dot will be a fine choice for learning, but there is a reason that most top shooters do not use a dot in the center of their scope of choice. I am not trying to offend anyone, and anything that keeps people shooting is great so please let no one take offense, but the cross hair reticle is inherently more accurate because you are not covering as much surface area with your reticle and therefore aiming smaller. In the Patriot Mel Gibson's character used the line, "aim small, miss small." There is actually a lot of truth to that. After you make your first shot you can adjust your sights to that sighter and then aim for that exact spot. With a target dot, you will be at the mercy of whatever area that is being covered even if it is the small 1/8 moa dot. The 1/8 moa dot would cover a little over 1.25 inches at 1000 yards. That could be the difference between an X and a 10 or a 10 and a 9. Anyway this opinion and $1.50 will probably not buy a coke but it is what I have seen to be true. Good luck and happy shooting!

Sethro Out </div></div>

Thanks Sethro; however please let me counter. There is no way on God's green earth that I, or my rig, is accurate to 1/8 moa. Secondly, the LRTD/TDT is the only Siii8-32x56 with 1/8 moa increments on the turrets and 1/8 moa clicks were far more important than the dot no dot. I would have had more options with the 10-50x60 but that would have significantly increased my costs. I think I made the right call for this rig.

Now, I'm still down to deciding on bases and rings. I am going to order them after I get the rifle and scope in. I plan to mount the scope with modelling clay to figure what height rings.
 
#28
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

I think the Savage F T/R and F Open rifles are hard to beat. They are purposely configured for the task and that's hard to find elsewhere in a factory lineup. They are also supported by a factory backed team, and that's something that's also hard to find for a rifle in a factory lineup. They win some, too; and they post here.

I think the Savage platform, barrel nut and all, supports barrel replacement better. Face it, if you get hooked good, there will be a replacement barrel sometime in your future. Might as well make a good preparation for the event.

Some like the Accu-Trigger, some don't; but hands down, it's a very adjustable, very competition-friendly trigger.

Round these parts, folks also like the Nightforce.

Greg
 
#29
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the Savage F T/R and F Open rifles are hard to beat. They are purposely configured for the task and that's hard to find elsewhere in a factory lineup. They are also supported by a factory backed team, and that's something that's also hard to find for a rifle in a factory lineup. They win some, too; and they post here.

I think the Savage platform, barrel nut and all, supports barrel replacement better. Face it, if you get hooked good, there will be a replacement barrel sometime in your future. Might as well make a good preparation for the event.

Some like the Accu-Trigger, some don't; but hands down, it's a very adjustable, very competition-friendly trigger.

Round these parts, folks also like the Nightforce.

Greg </div></div>

Thanks Greg. I am aware of the Nightforce and its reputation for both precision and durability. However, it would have greatly increased my costs. Perhaps if it is ever time for a new barrell it will be time for a new optic as well. I apreciate the post.
 
#30
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

I would recommend the Bench Source base. It's super light, since tots gun weight may be a concern for you (8.25kg weight limit in F-TR) and my Farrell base on another Savage is heavy. I have one on an F-Open gun chambered in .284 Win and it's held fine.
 
#31
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

I have the Farrell 20MOA Base on my Savage F Class gun, and It's kinda high. If I didn't have an adjustable cheekrest (McMillan A3) I'd be swinging in the wind for a cheek weld.

OTOH, with Weaver two-piece bases, Burris Signature Zee Medium Rings and 20MOA worth of offset inserts, and a 40mm objective, I ran my McMillan A5 stocked Savage without ever raising the cheek rest.

So bases (and their heights) make significant difference.

Needless to say, the Weaver base setup saved some weight, too.

The McMillan stocks are plenty rock solid enough for F Class regardless of the fill, so get the lightest fill for them when weight is an issue.

If I were planning on going wild in the bush, I'd question a two-piece base setup. But for match shooting, as long as they are installed poperly (with LokTite) they are plenty secure enough.

Greg
 
#33
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sarge7174</div><div class="ubbcode-body">B4,I got the fine cross hairs on my Sightron. I looked thru my friends' that has the dot,and didn't like it at all. Just my preference.
</div></div>

Yeah, I've got to agree here. I have US Team guys trying to dump "dot" reticles in favor of crosshair reticles of various flavors.

Some guys like the dots, but my thinking is that the important point here is not "whether you can shoot 1/8 MOA groups", it's that 1/8 MOA will (potentially) be added on to whatever your group size would ordinarily be. As others have stated before, the uncertainty in the dot could make a "10", hanging on by it's fingernails, into a 9.

Your mileage may vary,

Darrell
 
#34
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sarge7174</div><div class="ubbcode-body">B4,I got the fine cross hairs on my Sightron. I looked thru my friends' that has the dot,and didn't like it at all. Just my preference.
</div></div>

Yeah, I've got to agree here. I have US Team guys trying to dump "dot" reticles in favor of crosshair reticles of various flavors.

Some guys like the dots, but my thinking is that the important point here is not "whether you can shoot 1/8 MOA groups", it's that 1/8 MOA will (potentially) be added on to whatever your group size would ordinarily be. As others have stated before, the uncertainty in the dot could make a "10", hanging on by it's fingernails, into a 9.

Your mileage may vary,

Darrell

</div></div>

Thanks Darrell. The dilema was a coice between FCH with 1/4 moa click turrets or TD/TDT (1/8 Target dot) and 1/8 moa click turrets. I went with the 1/8 TD/TDT and 1/8 MOA clicks. I can change my mind however if I do not mount the scope.

If the national team could compete with a TD then it will probably suit this rookie just fine. Now when I get to shaving off every mm from my group sizes....well I hope I get good enough for it to become an issue.

Good point on it potentially adding onto the group size.
 
#36
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sarge7174</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't understand your problem getting 1/8 clicks,my Sightron came that way.
</div></div>

The Sightron Catalogue states that for the 8-32x56 the only reticle with 1/8 click turrets is the LRTD/TDT. in 10-50x60 they all have 1/8 clicks (except the LRMD/CM).
 
#37
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

The rifle and scope are in hand. Today I measure for bases and rings. Does everyone typically mount the scope as low as possible (still clearing the lens cover)? I am going to mount the scope on modelling clay and check the fit in the prone position.

dscn0197w.jpg


dscn0198reduced.jpg


I would like to thank everyone for helping this rookie out. I'm really enjoying this and looking forward to the range!

Edit: I mocked the scope up in Draftsight (CAD Program) with a Farrell 20 MOA canted base and high rings. About 0.9" over the front action mount screw will give ma a little over 0.2" clear of the barrell with the lens cover.


savagescopeclearance.jpg
 
#39
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sarge7174</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heh heh,you used a way more technical way to measure than I did!!! Hope your new scope works out great.
</div></div>

I'm an engineer so sometimes it is difficult to not be a geek! LOL, I'm having fun and another thank you to the board!

I just ordered rings and bases from Ken Farrell and they should be here Wednesday. The only remaining issue is whether to have a smith mount the scope or see if I can do it myself.

<span style="font-weight: bold">EDIT: Just mocked up, should hit the range for break in between Christmas and New Years.</span>

savage12ftr.jpg


sightronsiii832x56.jpg


 
#40
Re: Break In Range Report

I took the new Savage 12 F/TR to the range today. Note to self, avoid the gun range at all costs between Christmas and New Years.

Anyway, the gun was bore sighted and I worked my way out to 100 yds cleaning between shots (G.A. Precision Instructions - for the most part) and shot this 100 yard zero:


100ydzeroreduced.jpg


I cleaned the rifle, almost no fouling at this point so I shot a 5 shot group (shots 11-15 through the bore) to end the day also at 100 yards:

5shotgroupat100reduced.jpg


I am very happy with that! Federal Gold Medal Match 168 Grain Matchking HPBT. Now I need to stretch her out to 300.

b4target.jpg
 
#44
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

How is your scope mounted that far back? I had mine that far back and "scope bit" didn't begin to explain what was happening. Did you shoot from a bench or prone? I found that I really crowd the scope from prone, whereas from the bench, the scope can be way back like that.
 
#45
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How is your scope mounted that far back? I had mine that far back and "scope bit" didn't begin to explain what was happening. Did you shoot from a bench or prone? I found that I really crowd the scope from prone, whereas from the bench, the scope can be way back like that. </div></div>

Downzero:

I have not fired the gun prone yet but I set the scope up when in the prone position and checked the eye relief at both 8x and 32x. No issues yet. Here is a link to a picture of Darrell with his F/TR on the line. His Nightforce appears to sit about the same distance off of the action as my Sightron (Note where the scope stops relative to the open bolt).

Darrell's Savage 12 F/TR - LINK-
 
#46
Re: My F-Class Mid-Range Entry Setup

congrats on your new savage i also shoot 2 savages in f-class 1 with a new sightron SIIISS1050X60LRIRMOA love the moa-2 recticle. the only drawback i have is its .250 click not .125.
 
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