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My Next Action: Defiance vs. Impact vs. Curtis
- Thread starter envitro99
- Start date
I think the difference is I can go on a handful of websites and order a prefit impact barrel right now... If I go searching for a defiance, Kelby, etc prefit... Nothing.
It may not be unique but the availability plays a huge factor in what action to choose.
I actually have had all three of these, and I like the Impact the best. I sold my Curtis actions, they were ok, not bad just not as smooth as my Defiances or Impacts.
Sure, if you need a barrel ASAP.
I usually only have to wait a couple of weeks to get my gunsmith to spin me up a barrel.
I prefer barrels with chambers that match the specific ammo I'm shooting, rather than just a generic SAAMI reamer.
But that's just me...
Nothing wrong with that, recently ordered a custom reamer for a 22 BR rig myself lol
You need some help with Google, the first few have them actually in stock:
PROOF Research Defiance Ruckus Stainless Steel Pre-fit Barrels
the new Defiance Machine Ruckus actions will be an even bigger fan of the PROOF Research pre-fit stainless steel designed for the Defiance Machine Ruckus action
www.altusshooting.com
PROOF Research Defiance Ruckus Carbon Fiber Pre-fit Barrels
Fans of the new Defiance Machine Ruckus actions will be an even bigger fan of the PROOF Research pre-fit carbon fiber designed for the Defiance Ruckus action. PROOF's Ruckus
www.altusshooting.com
PROOF RESEARCH, INC DEFIANCE RUCKUS SHOULDERED PREFIT CARBON FIBER BARRELS | Brownells
PROOF Research pre-fit carbon fiber & steel barrels for the Defiance Ruckus are to be installed in a simple operation requiring few specialized tools. Their pre-fit barrels are chambered and threaded for a simple install that require only a few sp...
www.brownells.com
Defiance Ruckus Tenacity and ANTI Pre-fit Barrels - Straight Jacket Armory
Shouldered Pre-fit barrels for Defaince Tenacity and Ruckus actions, Made with match grade Stainless steel and Carbon Fiber Barrels
straightjacketarmory.com
Defiance Machine Pre Fit Gun Barrel | Tenacity - Ruckas - Anti X
Defiance Actions Prefit Gun Barrel: Tenacity, Ruckus, anTi, anTi X Defiance Machine offers several actions that hold .001″ tolerance on their headspace datum. The Tenacity, Ruckus, anTi, and anTi X all have an offering with a .966″-.9665″ headspace length, which is what this fixed-shouldered...
preferredbarrelblanks.com
Pre-fit Barrels for the Best Bolt Actions on the Market
High-volume shooters require sources for precision barrel work. As a precision-minded gunsmith, firearms business owner, and competitive shooter, I know why precision pre-fit barrels and precision-made actions are a great value to the marksmen who choose to do business with us.
bluemountainprecision.com
Proof Research Carbon Fiber Barrels- Pre-Fit Defiance Ruckus Barrels
Stocky's Stocks Afternmarket Rifle Stock Supplier
www.stockysstocks.com
There's a lot more, that's just the first few I found when I searched for "defiance prefit" on Google. It's ok to have opinions, but I would suggest validating your assertions before making them. It's not fair to manufacturers to negatively portray them without basis. There's plenty of factual things to bring up in a comparison; there's no need to invent issues that don't exist.
Speaking of, it's important to differentiate the Ruckus/Anti/AntiX from the Deviant. The whole "reliability" thing comes up a lot on the hide re: Impact - and it truly is a very reliable action. The whole Defiance binds up with "moon dust" thing comes up a lot, too, which is most certainly true of Deviants. I and a lot of other people use the newer actions like the Ruckus in challenging situations, and do not have reliability issues as the clearances are now large enough to accommodate some grit and grime without issue. I just bring it up, because it is important/imperative to recognize the differences in these models.
I have Impacts and Defiances and I like them both for a lot of different reasons. I lean a little more towards my current Defiance actions, but if I was PRS only and only bought in-stock actions, I might lean more towards Impact 737s (or LP Fuzion for that matter/Terminus Zeus/etc). With the ability to customize just about everything, Defiance is who gets my money. They're all great actions at this level, though.
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Proof barrels, preferred barrel blanks, etc. lol 
All barrels not worth buying for a serious shooter.
And SJA... if I order today, it will not ship tomorrow... They do good stuff but it will take weeks to arrives. Bug holes, 8-12 weeks.
I'm not negatively portraying anyone... But I'm also being honest on *good* availability. No serious shooter is going to choose any of those above barrels over, say, the Wisconsin dozen with proven match records.
All barrels not worth buying for a serious shooter.
And SJA... if I order today, it will not ship tomorrow... They do good stuff but it will take weeks to arrives. Bug holes, 8-12 weeks.
I'm not negatively portraying anyone... But I'm also being honest on *good* availability. No serious shooter is going to choose any of those above barrels over, say, the Wisconsin dozen with proven match records.
Bartlein, Brux, Krieger, Rock Creek, Criterion, Broughton, Obermeyer (I think he retired and sold to one of the other manufacturers), etc. Wisconsin has a long history in barrel making (WWII).
You can buy a prefit for multiple Defiance actions from StraightJacket Armory with Rock Creek blanks.
Yes, you can order from Stuteville directly and that's great and all but you are exaggerating that you cannot get a prefit or even a shouldered barrel for a Defiance with one of these makes. Yes, you can order from Altus but I can do that with a Defiance action as well so what really is the difference there?
Stuteville's also out of stock of 6GT prefits by the way, so how long am I going to wait on one? Probably the same time or more then getting a shouldered or prefit barrel ordered from LRI. It's a silly argument to try to make really.
I know there are others. I understand someone else preferring one brand over the other, Ford vs Chevy. It is my opinion that Impact has the best CNC equipment money can buy and have an operator, Wade Stuteville, that brings a level of precision that is hard to match. I do not know Wade. This definitely isn’t a friend trying to build up a friend. I’m just someone looking for my best value & am open to learning from you and others.
Maybe there is a good reason Defiance actions aren’t all held to such close tolerances that you can build shouldered pre-fit off of all thier actions. My guess is that they need to update thier equipment. If you know I would appreciate you passing it on. I acknowledge I don’t know much. My preference for Impact stems from hands on seeing how close there tolerances are. I especially like the chamber work With the close tolerances.
The blessing that we are receiving from the all the manufacturers that hold thier tolerances so close is eliminating the potential wait time of sending your rifle off to be rebarreled.
Pic below is off a Defiance Deviant Hunter which I definitely won’t get rid off. It’s an XM size that allows me to load 65 PRC up to 3.2” maximizing efficiency from that cartridge. Defiance offers a lot of options.
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If you read other comments above you will see why not all defiance actions can take prefits and it has nothing to do with being better equipment. Just like with an impact the ones they take prefits for defiance don't let you change options for things that change the headspace. The actions for defiance that can't take prefits have so many options that change those variables that they can't just say well here's a deviant print to spin a barrel up off of. I don't say this in defense of defiance since the 1 action of theirs I have im not overly impressed with but facts are facts. What impact does almost all the major "custom" action makers do as far as headspace ands being able to take prefits. Hell my $700 bighorn origin does that and I can go order a shouldered prefit today for it if I want.
I appreciate that you are upfront about it being your opinion! As the other poster responded, and as I initially stated, Defiance does not build all of their actions the same way. The Ruckus, Anti, AntiX, and Tenacity were all designed to allow for pre-fit barrels, and are held the machining standards necessary for this. It’s not a matter of equipment, but about design. They all have one-piece bolts. https://defiancemachine.com/actions/
You can hold tolerances +-0.001” relatively easily, with standard machining on a reasonably setup mill or lathe, good tooling, and proper speeds and feeds for the material and machine at hand. That wasn’t ever the limiting factor. It’s tolerance stacking with their previous designs and customization options.
The difference between most go and no-go gauges is something like 0.0035-0.006”, to put that into perspective.
I don’t know if you’re interest in metrology, but if you have the equipment necessary, you should check the measurements of the actions in question against the prints (if you can find them), or at least against other like actions. I think the results would surprise you. All of these top-tier action makers are putting out really good stuff at this point, which is why you really can’t go wrong with an Impact, LP, Terminus, Defiance, etc. It’s more about aesthetics and features at these price points.
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I’m not going to sit and argue with you on this one, but you should realize you’re on a PRS website, and now you’re talking about serious shooters. I think you’re confused; this isn’t accurateshooter. Moving goalposts just because you were wrong just makes you look foolish, I just grabbed the first half dozen results out of the exact search you tossed at me.Proof barrels, preferred barrel blanks, etc. lol
All barrels not worth buying for a serious shooter.
And SJA... if I order today, it will not ship tomorrow... They do good stuff but it will take weeks to arrives. Bug holes, 8-12 weeks.
I'm not negatively portraying anyone... But I'm also being honest on *good* availability. No serious shooter is going to choose any of those above barrels over, say, the Wisconsin dozen with proven match records.
If you require BR accuracy, you’re not buying any pre-fit cut with a SAAMI chamber as @kthomas so clearly pointed out. How much of a “serious shooter” are you to think otherwise? How many of your impact prefits are shooting into the .1s and .2s? Slippery slope.
Looks like a thread raised from the dead. But if you're buying prefits, you're making an excellent decision. Sure, you can get even more exact to your specific load, but very few people (relatively) actually need that or even do that. You can fire form your brass and find the lands and do all that reloading mumbo jumbo with a prefit just fine. And you'll clean stages in PRS at 1,000 yards like everyone else. Or you can fire factory match ammo and clean the stage, too. 90% of the misses come from not shooting at the target in consideration of wind, etc., not your $800 5-month wait barrel cut to your specific specifications.
I truly dont know what you’ll are discussing about barrels. This is strictly a response to you asking if anyone has ever seen a .1 or .2 group with an impact prefit. The pics are of a “10 shot group“ on a bipod & Caldwell rear bag. I was shooting fairly fast as it was cold. It was just a mag dump for break-in. These are break-in loads with no load development + I would imagine most of you shoot better than me. I’m just an old man who enjoys shooting. Just posting so that you can see a pre-fit is very capable of what you said. No disrespect & send you best wishes. I think we are in a wonderful era with multiple good choices today. The best thing is I don’t have to send my rifle to a gunsmith for a new barrel.
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That’s a pretty wild 10 shot rapid fire group with no load development. There are very few people I’ve seen that can produce ten shot groups like that even with meticulous load development at a reasonable pace, much less untuned loads doing a magdump. So kudos to you; you’re way underselling yourself as a shooter. I very rarely see anything under .4 5-shot groups on this site.
When we talk about prefit barrels, we’re really just saying barrels with headspacing that falls within specification without custom fitting. If you’ve got an off-the-shelf prefit run from a SAAMI reamer/standard throating/neck/etc, printing rapid fire groups like that with random handloads during break in, no less, all the pieces really fell into perfect place for you and you’re a great shooter. I certainly can’t argue against those results, that’s very impressive. I use prefits, effectively, but cut with my own reamer specifications.
My 737r w/ M24 prefit (SAAMI 6.5CM reamer - only one I have cut with a SAAMI reamer) wouldn’t shoot like that with random handloads, and would likely more often than not hang with that 10 shot group even with well-tuned loads, and definitely not rapid fire. I’d be terrified to compete against you if you had well-tuned ammunition and had a reamer setup optimally for your brass and bullets.
Good call on the B’n’A trigger.
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So did you just admit that none of those websites have pre-fits ready to ship? Because, they don't. You wait weeks. I didn't look foolish in that response as you did with your google-foo.
And again, I don't see proofs and preferred barrel blanks (haha) winning PRS matches.
I am no competition shooter nor get out these days like I used to and hunt or target shoot. I have had or built off just about every action that has come out in the last 20 years. I have to say I am a Bat and Kelbly fan boy. I have had a lot of rifles built over the years and have been more than pleased with all the actions I have used from these 2 manufactures. Everybody is going to have their own opinion of likes and dislikes on custom actions. Both companies I use in actions have been great to work with over the years. Hell 0ver 90 percent of these actions did not exist. I have been to Kelblys several times to pick up a rifle. Kelblys was then and still now the best people I have ever dealt with hands down. Their products and customer service is the absolute best in the business.
I am in the market for building my first custom rifle and need some ideas on what to buy. I don’t have any preferences currently and just want to hear some opinions on the best action, thanks! wendy's lunch time surveyzop.com
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Best for what? What is the rifle going to be used for? Comp, hunting, plinking, etc?
What chamber? Action length? Right or left hand? Material (Ti, CS, SS)? Finish (Nitride/DLC)? Does weight matter? Controlled round feed? Ejector preference? 90*, 60*, or something in between? Machined in rail and lug or do you prefer hybrid rings? Single feed, Bdl, or dbm. Prefit barrels of interest?
For the price/value ratio the ARC Coup De Grace is the best bet. It’ll cover any scenario pretty much and it’s actually an engineered design versus a dead brained clone with someone else’s branding / macho name.
Disclosure: I own a ARC Nucleus and it’s good enough that I don’t want to dump it for anything else but I wouldn’t say it’s perfect.
I had Defiance build me a rifle when Badrock Rifles were available. The action is based in a lot of ways on the Deviant Elite with some cost cutting changes, but none in the actual workings. Read this and the look at the Elite's specifications at their site. It is super smooth, uses controlled feed (great) and with a Winchester type extraction leaf system. The barrel was chambered with a cone. Look at the front of the bolt's lug faces: they are angled to fit that cone. The probably precludes a lot of DIY prefits.
I you have never used that extraction system it can be tricky. Most all of us grew up with an action that has a spring loaded plunger in the face of the bolt (Rem 700). That is much more positive than the leaf extraction because when you pull the bolt back the plunger triggers to force positive extraction. The leaf extraction depends on how fast/hard you pull the bolt back to throw the case out, or not.
That said there is a potential drawback with that plunger system too because the plunger pressure coming from the left side of the bolt face can affect how the bullet lines up in the chamber (bullet tip pushed slightly right). For example, in the ultimate precision game which is benchrest, the actions are single feed with no plungers.
Oh. and I have never had any issues using multiple magazines with the Deviant based action I own. They all feed flawlessly.
Last year they were 16 months behind. Then they raised the prices and opened the books saying they were only 3-4 months backlogged. Now a year? Whatever.
Ive got several different actions.Ive got a Defiance, Impact Precision ,Savage 110,DSavage 112, Stiller TAC 338,Stiller Tac Driver, and Stiller Predator( Pre 2005) Stiller Scout, Remimgton 700, Curtis. BAT.
And of all these my favorite is my Stiller Tac Driver and Impact Precision. Never did care for the Curtis after I got it.
I never had it but the only issue Ive heard of Stiller was when they had a whole Batch of bad Extractors. I never saw it but head about it.Im also like my Savage 110 in my 300 PRC. Its been great shooter out to 2900 yards.
And of all these my favorite is my Stiller Tac Driver and Impact Precision. Never did care for the Curtis after I got it.
I never had it but the only issue Ive heard of Stiller was when they had a whole Batch of bad Extractors. I never saw it but head about it.Im also like my Savage 110 in my 300 PRC. Its been great shooter out to 2900 yards.
