I felt compelled today to write up a short (ok it got a bit longer that I thought) note on my recent experience with PTG and specifically Dave Kiff, the owner. I follow many of the boards, the usual suspects most of which are true sources of knowledge for precision/tactical/long range shooting and have learned a lot, snipers hide, long range hunting, accurate shooter …et al. Like everywhere else in life (military included), there are those that have been there, done that and gotten the shiny medal of stupidity for it and know what they are talking about and keyboard commandos that are posting from their parents basements whose only weapons quals are on call of duty and if the gun can do it in the game, they feel that they are now qualified experts. So separating fact from fiction is still a requirement.
Now for me, I know I am just fly turds in the machinery grease of life, nobody special, no more or less deserving or gifted than anyone else. 20+ in the service gives you this realization quickly and if it doesn’t you are just a megalomaniac or just too self-absorbed and like most 12 step programs, admitting this is the first step to your recovery. Generally most of the posters and shooters I meet around the country are a helpful bunch and most really just want to help, even if their advice is a bit off the mark, they mean well. Then there are others that are either just too self important, cant’ admit step number 1 from above or are paid trolls or just have an axe to grind and will wield it at those they mean to discredit either for their own gains or because that is what they are being paid to do. I am neither paid, nor have axes to grind, and am unemployed so have no monetary gain to be gotten from what I am going to write… just felt like I needed to add my perspective and my experience to what seems like a polarized discussion on PTG.. mostly positive posts… but I don’t believe that the negative posts about Mr Kiff or PTG can be anything other than a counter intel program. Now to be sure, PTG and Mr Kiff at least in my circles have always been talked about as subject mater experts.. but I have seen occasional posts, usually from the same people/companies that want to throw rocks.. or complain about a time where things didnt go their way.... I hope this gives some additional perspective….
I got out of the service a couple years ago, and as a bit of therapy since there was no work for me where we settled for my wife to teach she suggested I get back into shooting and get range time to get back around the guys. Going from 60+ hour work weeks while home and 24/7 for months on end while deployed, and I did many, to suddenly being thrown into Mr Mom role raising my at the time 1yo… let’s just say it was a huge life change. So this offer from my wife was a nice gesture under the premise that it doesn’t break the bank since we were now making less than when I was in the service if that is possible. So I picked up a second hand 700 SPS with a Mk II 6-18 and started shooting with a club that gets access to 600 and 1000y range a couple times a year shooting F. Learning to dope winds, reload, and the rest that goes into a discipline that could not be farther from military weapons qual was a lot of fun, and after buying a second hand B&C stock (getting the low rent picture here — the only thing new that I shoot are the bullets and sometimes I buy blems to save a couple bucks) from a guy in my club to get it out of the tubberware hogue and fire lapping the barrel, I was able to get this thing to shoot so I could at least shoot in the 170s with a couple x’s but let’s be clear.. I got laughed at, and was shooting with guys that bragged the paint job on their custom stocked 30” bull barrel micrometer rest F Open guns cost more than my whole FT/R rifle/stock/scope and chicom knockoff harris cost (oh let’s not forget my dirty sock filled with beans rear bag)… I was put in my place.. and that was fine.. just like being in the service again. If you balls weren’t being busted, they didn’t like you, although I suspect some were just being mean and elitist, but hey if you got it, flaunt it. But I knew that a longer, better pipe than this factory 20" barrel was needed as it fouled bad and was velocity challenged for 1 grand. So I started scrimping and saving.
Great man, what has all this got to do with Dave? I am getting there, I just wanted to illuminate that I am nobody special, I am no German Salazer or Brad Suave or anyone else important that this company needed to cater to. Keep going, it’s worth it, I promise.
I finally scrimped together the $400 I needed to get a barreling and truing done and got my hands on a pretty good piece of pipe (on the cheap of course but that is a different story). With the approval of the household accountant and a look over the eyebrows as to why my perfectly good rifle (in her eyes) needed work, I was ready to go. I was going to use a smith in the club, and of course having done my research, chamber reamer choices for 308 is harder to choose than a trip to 51 flavors. I can only really afford a single precision bolt gun, and I also wanted to start tactical PRS style shooting once I could get a magazine system since I was told not to bother trying to enter one with a BDL setup.... so this rifle needed a chamber that was a bit of a tradeoff and could not just be purposed built around a single feed, long non mag length round but I didn’t want a mile long Remington chamber either and it really was a mile long I could have bullets out of the case before into the lands.
So I felt I needed expert advice to confirm what I was reading and getting from my smith.. so I tried calling the source… PTG of course.. what did I have to loose? I have read lots of posts by Dave and it seems like he is always willing to help out, send prints, etc. But there was too much to digest on the forums, seemed like everyone had a different opinion so I decided to try and call PTG directly.
So I call PTG, talk to the nice gal that picked up the phone and she asked how she could help. I said I had some 308 reamer questions and she asked for my company name (ok here we go.. mouse turd time) and I said ‘ sorry, it’s just me asking.. is that ok’. Sure, one moment please. I spend the next 30- 40 minutes talking reamers with a very knowledgable guy who was more than happy to stay on the phone with me until I was satisfied I knew what I wanted. And I told them up front, I am not buying anything nor have I bought anything, this is just so I can communicate with my gunsmith, ‘no problem’ was the reply. WOW. Ok since I wanted mostly 175’s size pills from AICS (should I ever get bottom metal) mag length a straight 308 win match was the suggestion, so off I went.
I sent the rifle out, told the smith the same thing, needed an accurate ‘rifle of all trades’ and he also said that win match made sense. I sent him the rifle for barreling and truing and what I got back made my head scratch a bit. I always chamber check anything before I shoot it, goes all the way back to when I was a child and my grandfather thought me that, along with looking up the barrel before shooting for the day and doing a complete function check. In his day it was mostly an issue with capture rifles being re-chambered in anything and everything, so trust nothing he would say. I dropped in some 168 FGMM and it dumped out, I don’t extract it out, I want to see it fall out. Same with FGMM 175, but it didn’t drop out.. it needed a tap and it had some land marking on the bullet. I was under the impression that the chamber we chose was supposed to fit the 175? My locking lugs looked shiny so they were worked on as was the bolt face, but only the bottom lug shed grease, not the top lug, and the bolt was not hitting the primary extractor ramp. There was now about 26 thou gap between the handle and action. I called my smith and he said everything is good to go, he could extend the throat if I wanted but assured me lots of people were happy with this setup (reamer) and it should be fine.
My range trip was a bit disappointing, Factory ammo shot OK, FGMM/Hornady 168 being better than my FGMM 7.62 that I had, just under an inch. But the 175 groups were worse than my factory barrel. Every group had flyers, velocities seemed really high but my chrono is a cheap one and sometimes has a mind of its own. No pressure signs so moved onto some reloads that in the old barrel velocity/accuracy matched the FGMM 7.62 in both LC LR and FGMM brass full length resized in the same dies. The LC would extract but the FGMM cases needed a tap on the bolt handle. Primary extraction, or the lack of, not helping here I am sure. But no pressure signs on the brass. Shot about 40 rounds, called it a day.
Gave my smith a call, he said it just needs to be broken in, and assured me that if he had done something that would affect extraction nothing would be extracting, probably need small base dies. I should load short or get my throat lengthened if that was a concern, but it should be fine and assured he only took a couple thou when lapping the bolt and the chamber was polished so that could not be the issue. Loading 175s under 2.8 seemed a bit odd, and I was worried about shooting them jammed.
So, what is a nobody like me going to do for additional input? I just spent almost as much ‘customizing’ my rig as what it had cost me originally and I feel like I have taken steps in the wrong direction. I called PTG again since I wanted to see if I really was running the right chamber and see what they thought about having my smith throat it longer, I took a bunch of stony point comparator measurements…then I called. Talked to the nice gal and said I had some chamber/reamer questions. She asked me what caliber, said ‘308’ and was waiting for the… what company do you work for.. next thing I know, ‘Good Morning this is Dave, how can I help’. Dave Kiff I asked? Yep… how can I help? wow.. ok the owner of the company.. the man himself.. I must have gotten lucky.
I explain that I was not a customer but just had some smith work done and I told him that I know he must be busy but could he spare a few minutes? Sure, what can I help with.. wow the owner of the company let me run through the whole rigamarole you all have read up to now.. with more detail took like 10 minutes just to get him up to speed, and he was full of suggestions and had me take some further measurements. Now he starts getting agitated, not at me, but at the numbers he is getting back.. damn it.. he said.. 'ok look just send that action up to me and I will take a look at it’ fit it with a properly fitting and clocked PTG bolt you might have been better off starting with one of my 700 actions I have them on sale right now..…' I said whoa whoa.. I just got off the prayer rug with the wife to pay a smith for this work, I can’t chase this down a hole, what is all this going to cost… he said don’t you worry about it.. let me just take a look at it and swap that bolt out.. and double check the chamber work. I was without words…
RIGHT THERE ANYONE that has written that this man doesn’t take care of customers ( I wasn’t even HIS customer ) was full of it. Right there.. enough said on that. That is definitive, that is straight dope, and if anyone wants to refute it - you stand in front of me and say it to my face.. that is the way it was. And let’s remember, I am NOBODY. I am less than nothing to this guy right now, I don’t represent a large contract and am not a sponsored shooter that could bash him. He has gotten NOTHING from me and he OWED me exactly that, NOTHING. So that is why I felt compelled to make my first post here. I just could not believe that anyone could say that Dave didn't take care of people. These ‘marquis’ builders (some that I have never heard of) that have had negative things to say about PTG or Dave and customer service... would you have spent hours talking to a NON-CUSTOMER? Would you have offered to work on and or repair someone’s rifle that was worked on by SOMEONE ELSE..… I think not.. take a good hard look in a mirror…. would you help out another human being as he did. He felt my pain, saw that I was in a pickle, put himself in my shoes and shouldered in to help me out.
It gets better… MUCH BETTER.
So I am finishing up my coffee after the call, as the fact sinks in that Mr Kiff, the man himself, is going to take a look at MY POS, second hand frankenrfile. I felt compelled to write him a nice note so I call PTG and they gave me his PERSONAL email so I could drop him a line to thank him. I let him know that I really appreciated his assistance and generosity in this mater and as an out of work vet trying to just have some fun let alone keep up in an expensive sport, I was humbled at his generosity. I asked if there was at least some small service that he could perform while fitting the new bolt that I could pay for, fluting or threading the handle perhaps, that I would feel better paying for something. What can I say, it’s the way I was brought up, be a man - pay your own way in life - ask for nothing and owe no-one. I said safety was my number one concern and that it made me feel better that he was going to take a look at it too, and so on.
This is where this story really takes it up a notch…
He sends me back a very nice reply (paraphrasing a bit.. not appropriate to attach the note he actually wrote since it was very personal) that it was his pleasure to help out a fellow vet (I don’t think he knew that on our first conversation). That having served himself, and having lost his brother to war, and having served many customers that where true American heroes (I am not going to name drop here but it was a who's who list) that he has learned in life it’s about taking care of each other, spending more quality time with family, being good to others when it’s in your ability to do so (something that just about everyone in combat has ever learned.. it’s about the guy next to you). That he would not just look over my rifle but that I would not recognize it when I get it back. At this point as I am reading his note and shedding a tear or two ( I am not embarrassed to say I got a bit emotional ) my wife that was sitting at the table and asked me if everything was ok and did someone pass away? I said ‘it’s ok hun.. just somebody is just going to do something really nice for me, and I am just used to being treated like a mouse turd in the machinery grease so it just tugged on me a bit too hard.. it’s ok”. I have help out a guy or too at the range that could not get an AR running right or had some jacked up 'borsighted' scope that couldn't get on paper... but this is a level of generosity I am not accustomed to seeing. I think someone bought a lunch for me once after 9/11 when I was standing in line at a BBQ shack in uniform.. but this takes it up a notch!
So really, what is there left to say here? What have you done for someone, anyone lately? If your company was doing this well, and in this demand we are lucky that he hasn’t doubled his prices and/or just gone govt contract only and forget the little guy. This man is very passionate about shooting. He is very knowledgable and that is why the .mil, secret service, FBI, national level shooters etc go to this man to get things done. With the explosion in the industry and nobody keeping up ( I waited 11 months BO for powder just a couple years ago), and a backlog of high paying government and other contracts keeping him jumping.. little ole fly turd me was just treated like royalty. Do things happen, mistakes get made, I would be surprised if they didn’t, if you think you are perfect go back up and read step 1, I assure you… you are not. But to say this man doesn’t care about customers is beyond absurd. This is the kind of man/company that deserves our continued support and business. I challenge you reading this to do something for others, as Dave has set example. If the true measure of a man is how he treats others.. the man is a saint in my book. Dave and his family have bled of the Flag to keep it red, but has not gotten so big as to forget where it is he came from. I have no idea what he is planning to do, or what my rifle is going to come back looking like.. but its the nicest thing anyone has done for me in a very long time... and all I have is thanks.... and cant wait to get it back and on a range........
If you have had what I can only assume has been a similarly positive experience at PTG please feel free chime in.....
If you are here to bash I respectfully ask that you post it elsewhere ..start your own thread... as I won't believe you...and I am not interested in hearing it... nobody that offers to do what this man is doing for me.. without me asking for a thing, deserves anything but praise. This is my thread.... respect my wishes please.
proud to be an American... Duty, Honor, Country, God, Family....
Thanks Dave!
Now for me, I know I am just fly turds in the machinery grease of life, nobody special, no more or less deserving or gifted than anyone else. 20+ in the service gives you this realization quickly and if it doesn’t you are just a megalomaniac or just too self-absorbed and like most 12 step programs, admitting this is the first step to your recovery. Generally most of the posters and shooters I meet around the country are a helpful bunch and most really just want to help, even if their advice is a bit off the mark, they mean well. Then there are others that are either just too self important, cant’ admit step number 1 from above or are paid trolls or just have an axe to grind and will wield it at those they mean to discredit either for their own gains or because that is what they are being paid to do. I am neither paid, nor have axes to grind, and am unemployed so have no monetary gain to be gotten from what I am going to write… just felt like I needed to add my perspective and my experience to what seems like a polarized discussion on PTG.. mostly positive posts… but I don’t believe that the negative posts about Mr Kiff or PTG can be anything other than a counter intel program. Now to be sure, PTG and Mr Kiff at least in my circles have always been talked about as subject mater experts.. but I have seen occasional posts, usually from the same people/companies that want to throw rocks.. or complain about a time where things didnt go their way.... I hope this gives some additional perspective….
I got out of the service a couple years ago, and as a bit of therapy since there was no work for me where we settled for my wife to teach she suggested I get back into shooting and get range time to get back around the guys. Going from 60+ hour work weeks while home and 24/7 for months on end while deployed, and I did many, to suddenly being thrown into Mr Mom role raising my at the time 1yo… let’s just say it was a huge life change. So this offer from my wife was a nice gesture under the premise that it doesn’t break the bank since we were now making less than when I was in the service if that is possible. So I picked up a second hand 700 SPS with a Mk II 6-18 and started shooting with a club that gets access to 600 and 1000y range a couple times a year shooting F. Learning to dope winds, reload, and the rest that goes into a discipline that could not be farther from military weapons qual was a lot of fun, and after buying a second hand B&C stock (getting the low rent picture here — the only thing new that I shoot are the bullets and sometimes I buy blems to save a couple bucks) from a guy in my club to get it out of the tubberware hogue and fire lapping the barrel, I was able to get this thing to shoot so I could at least shoot in the 170s with a couple x’s but let’s be clear.. I got laughed at, and was shooting with guys that bragged the paint job on their custom stocked 30” bull barrel micrometer rest F Open guns cost more than my whole FT/R rifle/stock/scope and chicom knockoff harris cost (oh let’s not forget my dirty sock filled with beans rear bag)… I was put in my place.. and that was fine.. just like being in the service again. If you balls weren’t being busted, they didn’t like you, although I suspect some were just being mean and elitist, but hey if you got it, flaunt it. But I knew that a longer, better pipe than this factory 20" barrel was needed as it fouled bad and was velocity challenged for 1 grand. So I started scrimping and saving.
Great man, what has all this got to do with Dave? I am getting there, I just wanted to illuminate that I am nobody special, I am no German Salazer or Brad Suave or anyone else important that this company needed to cater to. Keep going, it’s worth it, I promise.
I finally scrimped together the $400 I needed to get a barreling and truing done and got my hands on a pretty good piece of pipe (on the cheap of course but that is a different story). With the approval of the household accountant and a look over the eyebrows as to why my perfectly good rifle (in her eyes) needed work, I was ready to go. I was going to use a smith in the club, and of course having done my research, chamber reamer choices for 308 is harder to choose than a trip to 51 flavors. I can only really afford a single precision bolt gun, and I also wanted to start tactical PRS style shooting once I could get a magazine system since I was told not to bother trying to enter one with a BDL setup.... so this rifle needed a chamber that was a bit of a tradeoff and could not just be purposed built around a single feed, long non mag length round but I didn’t want a mile long Remington chamber either and it really was a mile long I could have bullets out of the case before into the lands.
So I felt I needed expert advice to confirm what I was reading and getting from my smith.. so I tried calling the source… PTG of course.. what did I have to loose? I have read lots of posts by Dave and it seems like he is always willing to help out, send prints, etc. But there was too much to digest on the forums, seemed like everyone had a different opinion so I decided to try and call PTG directly.
So I call PTG, talk to the nice gal that picked up the phone and she asked how she could help. I said I had some 308 reamer questions and she asked for my company name (ok here we go.. mouse turd time) and I said ‘ sorry, it’s just me asking.. is that ok’. Sure, one moment please. I spend the next 30- 40 minutes talking reamers with a very knowledgable guy who was more than happy to stay on the phone with me until I was satisfied I knew what I wanted. And I told them up front, I am not buying anything nor have I bought anything, this is just so I can communicate with my gunsmith, ‘no problem’ was the reply. WOW. Ok since I wanted mostly 175’s size pills from AICS (should I ever get bottom metal) mag length a straight 308 win match was the suggestion, so off I went.
I sent the rifle out, told the smith the same thing, needed an accurate ‘rifle of all trades’ and he also said that win match made sense. I sent him the rifle for barreling and truing and what I got back made my head scratch a bit. I always chamber check anything before I shoot it, goes all the way back to when I was a child and my grandfather thought me that, along with looking up the barrel before shooting for the day and doing a complete function check. In his day it was mostly an issue with capture rifles being re-chambered in anything and everything, so trust nothing he would say. I dropped in some 168 FGMM and it dumped out, I don’t extract it out, I want to see it fall out. Same with FGMM 175, but it didn’t drop out.. it needed a tap and it had some land marking on the bullet. I was under the impression that the chamber we chose was supposed to fit the 175? My locking lugs looked shiny so they were worked on as was the bolt face, but only the bottom lug shed grease, not the top lug, and the bolt was not hitting the primary extractor ramp. There was now about 26 thou gap between the handle and action. I called my smith and he said everything is good to go, he could extend the throat if I wanted but assured me lots of people were happy with this setup (reamer) and it should be fine.
My range trip was a bit disappointing, Factory ammo shot OK, FGMM/Hornady 168 being better than my FGMM 7.62 that I had, just under an inch. But the 175 groups were worse than my factory barrel. Every group had flyers, velocities seemed really high but my chrono is a cheap one and sometimes has a mind of its own. No pressure signs so moved onto some reloads that in the old barrel velocity/accuracy matched the FGMM 7.62 in both LC LR and FGMM brass full length resized in the same dies. The LC would extract but the FGMM cases needed a tap on the bolt handle. Primary extraction, or the lack of, not helping here I am sure. But no pressure signs on the brass. Shot about 40 rounds, called it a day.
Gave my smith a call, he said it just needs to be broken in, and assured me that if he had done something that would affect extraction nothing would be extracting, probably need small base dies. I should load short or get my throat lengthened if that was a concern, but it should be fine and assured he only took a couple thou when lapping the bolt and the chamber was polished so that could not be the issue. Loading 175s under 2.8 seemed a bit odd, and I was worried about shooting them jammed.
So, what is a nobody like me going to do for additional input? I just spent almost as much ‘customizing’ my rig as what it had cost me originally and I feel like I have taken steps in the wrong direction. I called PTG again since I wanted to see if I really was running the right chamber and see what they thought about having my smith throat it longer, I took a bunch of stony point comparator measurements…then I called. Talked to the nice gal and said I had some chamber/reamer questions. She asked me what caliber, said ‘308’ and was waiting for the… what company do you work for.. next thing I know, ‘Good Morning this is Dave, how can I help’. Dave Kiff I asked? Yep… how can I help? wow.. ok the owner of the company.. the man himself.. I must have gotten lucky.
I explain that I was not a customer but just had some smith work done and I told him that I know he must be busy but could he spare a few minutes? Sure, what can I help with.. wow the owner of the company let me run through the whole rigamarole you all have read up to now.. with more detail took like 10 minutes just to get him up to speed, and he was full of suggestions and had me take some further measurements. Now he starts getting agitated, not at me, but at the numbers he is getting back.. damn it.. he said.. 'ok look just send that action up to me and I will take a look at it’ fit it with a properly fitting and clocked PTG bolt you might have been better off starting with one of my 700 actions I have them on sale right now..…' I said whoa whoa.. I just got off the prayer rug with the wife to pay a smith for this work, I can’t chase this down a hole, what is all this going to cost… he said don’t you worry about it.. let me just take a look at it and swap that bolt out.. and double check the chamber work. I was without words…
RIGHT THERE ANYONE that has written that this man doesn’t take care of customers ( I wasn’t even HIS customer ) was full of it. Right there.. enough said on that. That is definitive, that is straight dope, and if anyone wants to refute it - you stand in front of me and say it to my face.. that is the way it was. And let’s remember, I am NOBODY. I am less than nothing to this guy right now, I don’t represent a large contract and am not a sponsored shooter that could bash him. He has gotten NOTHING from me and he OWED me exactly that, NOTHING. So that is why I felt compelled to make my first post here. I just could not believe that anyone could say that Dave didn't take care of people. These ‘marquis’ builders (some that I have never heard of) that have had negative things to say about PTG or Dave and customer service... would you have spent hours talking to a NON-CUSTOMER? Would you have offered to work on and or repair someone’s rifle that was worked on by SOMEONE ELSE..… I think not.. take a good hard look in a mirror…. would you help out another human being as he did. He felt my pain, saw that I was in a pickle, put himself in my shoes and shouldered in to help me out.
It gets better… MUCH BETTER.
So I am finishing up my coffee after the call, as the fact sinks in that Mr Kiff, the man himself, is going to take a look at MY POS, second hand frankenrfile. I felt compelled to write him a nice note so I call PTG and they gave me his PERSONAL email so I could drop him a line to thank him. I let him know that I really appreciated his assistance and generosity in this mater and as an out of work vet trying to just have some fun let alone keep up in an expensive sport, I was humbled at his generosity. I asked if there was at least some small service that he could perform while fitting the new bolt that I could pay for, fluting or threading the handle perhaps, that I would feel better paying for something. What can I say, it’s the way I was brought up, be a man - pay your own way in life - ask for nothing and owe no-one. I said safety was my number one concern and that it made me feel better that he was going to take a look at it too, and so on.
This is where this story really takes it up a notch…
He sends me back a very nice reply (paraphrasing a bit.. not appropriate to attach the note he actually wrote since it was very personal) that it was his pleasure to help out a fellow vet (I don’t think he knew that on our first conversation). That having served himself, and having lost his brother to war, and having served many customers that where true American heroes (I am not going to name drop here but it was a who's who list) that he has learned in life it’s about taking care of each other, spending more quality time with family, being good to others when it’s in your ability to do so (something that just about everyone in combat has ever learned.. it’s about the guy next to you). That he would not just look over my rifle but that I would not recognize it when I get it back. At this point as I am reading his note and shedding a tear or two ( I am not embarrassed to say I got a bit emotional ) my wife that was sitting at the table and asked me if everything was ok and did someone pass away? I said ‘it’s ok hun.. just somebody is just going to do something really nice for me, and I am just used to being treated like a mouse turd in the machinery grease so it just tugged on me a bit too hard.. it’s ok”. I have help out a guy or too at the range that could not get an AR running right or had some jacked up 'borsighted' scope that couldn't get on paper... but this is a level of generosity I am not accustomed to seeing. I think someone bought a lunch for me once after 9/11 when I was standing in line at a BBQ shack in uniform.. but this takes it up a notch!
So really, what is there left to say here? What have you done for someone, anyone lately? If your company was doing this well, and in this demand we are lucky that he hasn’t doubled his prices and/or just gone govt contract only and forget the little guy. This man is very passionate about shooting. He is very knowledgable and that is why the .mil, secret service, FBI, national level shooters etc go to this man to get things done. With the explosion in the industry and nobody keeping up ( I waited 11 months BO for powder just a couple years ago), and a backlog of high paying government and other contracts keeping him jumping.. little ole fly turd me was just treated like royalty. Do things happen, mistakes get made, I would be surprised if they didn’t, if you think you are perfect go back up and read step 1, I assure you… you are not. But to say this man doesn’t care about customers is beyond absurd. This is the kind of man/company that deserves our continued support and business. I challenge you reading this to do something for others, as Dave has set example. If the true measure of a man is how he treats others.. the man is a saint in my book. Dave and his family have bled of the Flag to keep it red, but has not gotten so big as to forget where it is he came from. I have no idea what he is planning to do, or what my rifle is going to come back looking like.. but its the nicest thing anyone has done for me in a very long time... and all I have is thanks.... and cant wait to get it back and on a range........
If you have had what I can only assume has been a similarly positive experience at PTG please feel free chime in.....
If you are here to bash I respectfully ask that you post it elsewhere ..start your own thread... as I won't believe you...and I am not interested in hearing it... nobody that offers to do what this man is doing for me.. without me asking for a thing, deserves anything but praise. This is my thread.... respect my wishes please.
proud to be an American... Duty, Honor, Country, God, Family....
Thanks Dave!
