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My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

gsbuickman

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 3, 2012
0
0
48
Boise, Idaho
Hello everybody, i am new here, and this is a new Mosin Nagant sniper i recently added to my collection. Appropriately i'll kick off my entry with it.

This is my 1939 issue 91/30, it currently outfitted with:

Leather cheek rest new recoil pad new red star sling seamless fixed muzzle brake 2 bayonets (not pictured) adjustable height bipod Tasco 3x9 power scope w/ Ati mounts so the iron sight can still be used

I picked this up for $200, and all i've done to it myself was add the sling and recoil pad so far. it's still oem configuration. Only 2 mods have been made that are easily reversible if needed.

the receiver has been tapped for the ati scope mounts muzzle brake seam has been tack welded and ground smooth

I am really liking this beauty, although i think i need to change up the stock color. I'll probally just refinish it.

before i done anything to it, I wanted to say hey, an get your input.

IMG_20120609_164601.jpg


IMG_20120614_181919.jpg


IMG_20120614_181848.jpg


IMG_20120609_164625.jpg




 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

Bipod, which is attached directly to the end of barrel, is a real bad idea. Muzzle brake, which is held by the front sight base, has been regarded to be just a cosmetic piece, and may cause some serious issues, because exit hole can not be possibly concetric to the bore. Otherwise, MN rifle has some real good potential, and you obviously trying to come up with something to utilize it, which is appreciated.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gsbuickman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am really licking this beauty</span>, although i think i need to change up the stock color.</div></div>

FWIW, we pretty much <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> like to "lick beauties." Hell, some of us, we're so busy trying to arrange such opportunities that we scarcely remember to breathe, let alone get range time. As to the "s" word, <span style="font-style: italic">precision</span> is a better descriptor, or at least the goal towards which you're working. <span style="font-style: italic">Sniper</span> is a whole 'nother ball o' wax.

Ex-beauties what got licked damned near to death:

osc2dw.jpg
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kortik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for posting my picture of my rifles. </div></div>

You're quite welcome. Please note that I didn't use your bandwidth.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

Thanks for the feedback guys, i appreciate it.

The muzzle brake is a functional piece from ATI, as is the see through sight mount. If i have any issues with the bipod, i'll mount it to the forestock. The trigger isn't too bad, but it needs a finn aear spring & trigger job.

I have 2 other Mosin Nagants in my gun cabinet as well. The 1st is a nice Hungarian m44, with the sweetest trigger job you'll find. The 2nd is a beautiful pre war hex receiver 91/30, #'s matching with brass caps.

I plan on similar sniper style builds with them. I am ol' skool & a member of the gun & game forum. I will do my modifications w/o altering barrels or stocks. I could find alternate stocks & keep the originals rather than chop'em up.

I have other rifles itchin' to be modified. Guess they'll have to wait in line. They'll be in another category anyway.

Btw, thanks for, the heads up on the muzzle brake alignment with, the barrel. I'll be sure it's squared up & plumb.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kortik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for posting my picture of my rifles. </div></div>

You're quite welcome. Please note that I didn't use your bandwidth. </div></div>

That is certainly very kind of you, thanks again.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

Btw, thanks for the picture of the modded setups. Is that a mosin 91/30 on steroids ?. Who has the info on the stock & pistol grip mods ?. I've been looking at the ati pistol grips myself. Thanks
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

i just picked me up a mosin nagant and going to mod it out, any one shoot it with them ati mounts, kinda scared about them, afraid the recoil will move them to much. im wanting it to be a long range rifle. (use long range cuz "snipers" are trained millitary individuals).
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With two barrel bands on the forstock it's not free floating so moving the bi-pod may make little difference . </div></div>

I may be wrong but, if it's like a lot of rifles at this time (Enfield, Springfield for example) the stock is set up to exert pre-determined pressure on the barrel. Messing with that really affects accuracy.

It can even be as simple as moving your hand hold on the foreend will have the same effect.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ex-beauties what got licked damned near to death:

osc2dw.jpg
</div></div>

Those all look fine to me. But I'm a cretin like that.

How do they shoot?
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With two barrel bands on the forstock it's not free floating so moving the bi-pod may make little difference . </div></div>

I may be wrong but, if it's like a lot of rifles at this time (Enfield, Springfield for example) the stock is set up to exert pre-determined pressure on the barrel. Messing with that really affects accuracy.

It can even be as simple as moving your hand hold on the foreend will have the same effect. </div></div>

Actually, the only thing the barrel bands do, is hold the top of the forestock, to the bottom of the forestock. If you take an appropriately sized deep well socket & roll it in sandpaper, you can uniformly sand the forestock so the barrel free float's. In it.

Just sand until a piece o' paper free slides between the barrel & forestock.

I guess I'll find out how true that info really is.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With two barrel bands on the forstock it's not free floating so moving the bi-pod may make little difference . </div></div>

I may be wrong but, if it's like a lot of rifles at this time (Enfield, Springfield for example) the stock is set up to exert pre-determined pressure on the barrel. Messing with that really affects accuracy.

It can even be as simple as moving your hand hold on the foreend will have the same effect. </div></div>
This is exactly correct and the location of the barrel bands (especially the front one) are no coincidence. The front band is placed directly over a node in the barrel and is a pressure point that plays a major part in the accuracy/consistency of the rifle.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

gsbuickman, what did you use to as a scope mount? Did you have something machined and screwed onto the receiver? Looks pretty good to me.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With two barrel bands on the forstock it's not free floating so moving the bi-pod may make little difference . </div></div>

I may be wrong but, if it's like a lot of rifles at this time (Enfield, Springfield for example) the stock is set up to exert pre-determined pressure on the barrel. Messing with that really affects accuracy.

It can even be as simple as moving your hand hold on the foreend will have the same effect. </div></div>
This is exactly correct and the location of the barrel bands (especially the front one) are no coincidence. The front band is placed directly over a node in the barrel and is a pressure point that plays a major part in the accuracy/consistency of the rifle. </div></div>

Hhhmmm if possible send me the link on that info. Maybe, thats the missing piece of the info, that wasn't on the mosin nagant forum ?. It would make sense to have the barrel free float inside the forestock, except where the bands are at.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

Check the forums at Gunboards and search for discussions on "shimming, barrel wrap, corking, accurizing", etc. This topic has also been written about in some Russian books/manuals. The best way gain control of the amount of pressure applied to the barrel is to wrap it or shim it. The problem we run into nowadays, is that most of the stocks on these rifles are very old, compressed and just plain worn out. So, the geometry of how they sit in the stock is not the same as the day they were made. Also, in speaking with several people who have experimented with different barrel lengths, they seem to get the best results with free floated barrels if they have been cut down to about 20.5" (not that I condone such a thing, for for the sake of scientific discussion). This is exactly where the front band is on a 91/30 and this is also the length of the M38 and M44 carbine barrels. They didn't choose this point at random.

I could show you pictures from some of my own experiments with shims and wraps that prove this. I get tighter groups with a wrapped barrel than with one that's free-floating and, when done right, heat is not usually a significant factor. The problem always goes back to the stock fit/geometry. With different stocks/rifles, it's hard to find an exact wrap/shim formuula that works the same on all of them. You'll end up trying different amounts of pressure until you find what works best on that individual rifle. Of course, the ultimate answer from a technical standpoint is to use a bedded or machine block chassis type system for the receiver, cut the barrel to the optimum length and/or come up with some sort of tension system for it that is consistent and can be measured (not unlike the JAE stocks for the M1A/M14 rifles). However, if you're more of a purist like I am and don't want to make those changes, you revert back to the way the Russians and Finns did it, which is to shim/wrap the actions and barrels.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

ETA: BasraBoy mentioned the Enfield, as well. Study that design closely and you'll find that they had taken this concept to the next level when incorporating it into the design and production. Especially when you look at the earlier No.1 rifles. Everything is basically clamped into place and screws at various points allow you to adjust the tension. A similar setup can be found on the nose cap of the Finnish M39. The funny hinged top has a purpose. It's a clamp. A lot of them will shoot better with a specific amount of tension applied by that clamp/screw which pushes the handguard down at.....you guessed it.....21 inches. However, I have had a few M39s. The one I currently own prefers to be free floated, where the others did not. The difference between them, however, is the stock inlet. Where the others were a touch more generous, this one almost looks like it was done by CAD and literally "snaps" into place, it's such a tight fit. How the Finns were able to build a stock to such exacting tolerances during WW2 is beyond me. But, they did.

John
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check the forums at Gunboards and search for discussions on "shimming, barrel wrap, corking, accurizing", etc. This topic has also been written about in some Russian books/manuals. The best way gain control of the amount of pressure applied to the barrel is to wrap it or shim it. The problem we run into nowadays, is that most of the stocks on these rifles are very old, compressed and just plain worn out. So, the geometry of how they sit in the stock is not the same as the day they were made. Also, in speaking with several people who have experimented with different barrel lengths, they seem to get the best results with free floated barrels if they have been cut down to about 20.5" (not that I condone such a thing, for for the sake of scientific discussion). This is exactly where the front band is on a 91/30 and this is also the length of the M38 and M44 carbine barrels. They didn't choose this point at random.

I could show you pictures from some of my own experiments with shims and wraps that prove this. I get tighter groups with a wrapped barrel than with one that's free-floating and, when done right, heat is not usually a significant factor. The problem always goes back to the stock fit/geometry. With different stocks/rifles, it's hard to find an exact wrap/shim formuula that works the same on all of them. You'll end up trying different amounts of pressure until you find what works best on that individual rifle. Of course, the ultimate answer from a technical standpoint is to use a bedded or machine block chassis type system for the receiver, cut the barrel to the optimum length and/or come up with some sort of tension system for it that is consistent and can be measured (not unlike the JAE stocks for the M1A/M14 rifles). However, if you're more of a purist like I am and don't want to make those changes, you revert back to the way the Russians and Finns did it, which is to shim/wrap the actions and barrels. </div></div>

Good post, and accurate in essence. BTW, Brits put quite a bit of effort in making SMLE No.4 rifle shoot better by carefully "crafting" designated pressure point between barrel and forend, typically in the middle section of the barrel. Same principle can be used for MN, with some experimentation. Or just cut original MN barrel to 20"-22" and free float it, as I personally prefer to do.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kortik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good post, and accurate in essence. BTW, Brits put quite a bit of effort in making SMLE No.4 rifle shoot better by carefully "crafting" designated pressure point between barrel and forend, typically in the middle section of the barrel. Same principle can be used for MN, with some experimentation. Or just cut original MN barrel to 20"-22" and free float it, as I personally prefer to do. </div></div>
Very true. I only singled out the No.1 because they are more user friendly in making adjustments, if needed. The No.4 certainly had more of those features "built in". That's one of the reasons I love them and hate them, equally. LOL Actually, I've had pretty good luck with No.4s, but have had a couple that were a real nightmare to get shooting properly.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Angstrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ex-beauties what got licked damned near to death:

osc2dw.jpg
</div></div>

Those all look fine to me. But I'm a cretin like that.

How do they shoot? </div></div>

Pretty decent. I do not use quality (expensive) scopes, cause these are my "utility" rifles, or handloads, which are limiting factors here, but can do 1.5"-2" groups (Hungarian LPS, 10 shots) at 100 with any of them. They all have very good group consistency, although accuracy is more like sufficient for practical purposes (hunting in the woods) than high... Not a long range rifles for sure. The one in the middle (black alum. stock) just got me a 300 lbs. wild boar in TN with Barnaul 203 gr. SP, at approximately 60 yards.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kortik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Angstrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Veer_G said:
Ex-beauties what got licked damned near to death:

http://i46.tinypic.com/osc2dw.jpg[/IMG]

Those all look fine to me. But I'm a cretin like that.

How do they shoot? </div></div>

Pretty decent. I do not use quality (expensive) scopes, cause these are my "utility" rifles, or handloads, which are limiting factors here, but can do 1.5"-2" groups (Hungarian LPS, 10 shots) at 100 with any of them. They all have very good group consistency, although accuracy is more like sufficient for practical purposes (hunting in the woods) than high... Not a long range rifles for sure. The one in the middle (black alum. stock) just got me a 300 lbs. wild boar in TN with Barnaul 203 gr. SP, at approximately 60 yards.
</div></div>

FWIW, your rifles surfaced here: http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/82080-bullpup-mosin-nagant.html Someone else posted the image and also, FWIW, I also just noticed that you popped up in the thread, as well.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kortik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Angstrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Veer_G said:
Ex-beauties what got licked damned near to death:

http://i46.tinypic.com/osc2dw.jpg[/IMG]

Those all look fine to me. But I'm a cretin like that.

How do they shoot? </div></div>

Pretty decent. I do not use quality (expensive) scopes, cause these are my "utility" rifles, or handloads, which are limiting factors here, but can do 1.5"-2" groups (Hungarian LPS, 10 shots) at 100 with any of them. They all have very good group consistency, although accuracy is more like sufficient for practical purposes (hunting in the woods) than high... Not a long range rifles for sure. The one in the middle (black alum. stock) just got me a 300 lbs. wild boar in TN with Barnaul 203 gr. SP, at approximately 60 yards.
</div></div>

FWIW, your rifles surfaced here: http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/82080-bullpup-mosin-nagant.html Someone else posted the image and also, FWIW, I also just noticed that you popped up in the thread, as well. </div></div>

I've uploaded this picture like 7 or 8 years ago, and it was surfacing in different places from time to time.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

Hhhhmmmm i wonder how it would be if you used the automotive "cork" gasket maker. The one that comes in the "squeeze cheese" type can.

Maybe it can be used as receiver bedding, or forestock bedding. It would be a nice snug fit after it sits up, without excess clamping forces. Its just a cork rubber compound.

There goes my grease monkey hot rodder thinking again ...........................?
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

I did about everything I could to make my Mosin accurate. Here is the build:

Mosin project



DSCN8563.JPG


What I found was, it's cheap to shoot, fun, gets a ton of attention at the range. However, will never even come close to the accuracy of my out of the box Savage.

That being said, it was a fun project!
smile.gif
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

I agree i am ol' skool myself. I prefer vintage over newer pieces made with plastic and composites any day. I have a savage model 6A 22lr, with a bsa 3x9 power scope. It'll shoot 1.5" groups at 150 yards all day long.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With two barrel bands on the forstock it's not free floating so moving the bi-pod may make little difference . </div></div>

I may be wrong but, if it's like a lot of rifles at this time (Enfield, Springfield for example) the stock is set up to exert pre-determined pressure on the barrel. Messing with that really affects accuracy.

It can even be as simple as moving your hand hold on the foreend will have the same effect. </div></div>
I am not following why you quoted my post ?? I am saying that moving the bi-pod from the metal of the barrel to the wood of the forstock may make " no " improvement in accuracy as the forstock is not floating anyway .
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

The reason I quoted your post is because anything that interferes with the pre-loading that these stocks were designed to impart...including having a muzzle or stock mounted bipod (on a rifle that is still in it's original configuration), rather than have no discernible or positive effect on accuracy, will more than likely be noticably detrimental to accuracy .

Seemed like a logical follow-on to what you were saying?
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason I quoted your post is because anything that interferes with the pre-loading that these stocks were designed to impart...including having a muzzle or stock mounted bipod (on a rifle that is still in it's original configuration), rather than have no discernible or positive effect on accuracy, will more than likely be noticably detrimental to accuracy .

Seemed like a logical follow-on to what you were saying? </div></div>
Still not following you . My post was in reference to another post that recommended moving the bi-pod to the stock to maybe IMPROVE accuracy . I said it may not help as the forstock is clamped to the barrel anyway !
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

The comment I made is self-explanatory as is it's relevance to your post (hence the quote).

Anything barrel or stock mounted will do more than "make little difference" to improving accuracy. Given the design of these rifles and the way the stock interacts with the barrel, it will affect accuracy negatively... i.e. actively make it considerably/noticably worse.

I am not disagreeing with what you are said, I am expanding on your comment as it may be that the reasons why it is a negative may not have been fully understood.

Quoting your post is not a personal criticism. If you interpret it as such, you are mistaken.

Rather than foul up the OP's thread, I would have preferred to deal with this in a PM - but your account doesn't accept them.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tempest 455</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did about everything I could to make my Mosin accurate. Here is the build:

Mosin project



DSCN8563.JPG


What I found was, it's cheap to shoot, fun, gets a ton of attention at the range. However, will never even come close to the accuracy of my out of the box Savage.

That being said, it was a fun project!
smile.gif
</div></div>Incredible! Is that the original wood, or did you use something else?
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longguntoter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tempest 455</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did about everything I could to make my Mosin accurate. Here is the build:

Mosin project



DSCN8563.JPG


What I found was, it's cheap to shoot, fun, gets a ton of attention at the range. However, will never even come close to the accuracy of my out of the box Savage.

That being said, it was a fun project!
smile.gif
</div></div>Incredible! Is that the original wood, or did you use something else? </div></div>

That's a Boyds stock.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

I'm missing something...
You stripped the blueing off the gun, but did not re-blue, or paint...

How are your protecting the metal from rust?
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tempest 455</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longguntoter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tempest 455</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did about everything I could to make my Mosin accurate. Here is the build:

Mosin project



DSCN8563.JPG


What I found was, it's cheap to shoot, fun, gets a ton of attention at the range. However, will never even come close to the accuracy of my out of the box Savage.

That being said, it was a fun project!
smile.gif
</div></div>Incredible! Is that the original wood, or did you use something else? </div></div>

That's a Boyds stock. </div></div>Oh, OK. I was gonna say that those Russians put some nice wood on yours. I know either of mine would not look like that no matter how much work I put into it.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gsbuickman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree i am ol' skool myself. I prefer vintage over newer pieces made with plastic and composites any day. I have a savage model 6A 22lr, with a bsa 3x9 power scope. It'll shoot 1.5" groups at 150 yards all day long. </div></div>

Yeah, sure ya do.
whistle.gif
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gsbuickman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am really licking this beauty</span>, although i think i need to change up the stock color.</div></div>

FWIW, we pretty much <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> like to "lick beauties." Hell, some of us, we're so busy trying to arrange such opportunities that we scarcely remember to breathe, let alone get range time. As to the "s" word, <span style="font-style: italic">precision</span> is a better descriptor, or at least the goal towards which you're working. <span style="font-style: italic">Sniper</span> is a whole 'nother ball o' wax.

Ex-beauties what got licked damned near to death:

osc2dw.jpg
</div></div>

Oh god I'm dying.
 
Re: My sniperized Mosin Nagant 91/30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tempest 455</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did about everything I could to make my Mosin accurate. Here is the build:

Mosin project




What I found was, it's cheap to shoot, fun, gets a ton of attention at the range. However, will never even come close to the accuracy of my out of the box Savage.

That being said, it was a fun project!
smile.gif
</div></div> I think i have a new project.... Shit.