My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! Range Update 5-13-10

Psycho-82

Psycho-82

Private
Minuteman
Sep 7, 2008
82
0
42
El Paso, Tx
#1
While at an appt i received a call from my FFL saying "lightning has struck" and i knew my X-Ray had shown up! Trying to finish my appt without just storming out to get my rifle was extremely hard to do!

My X-ray is an all black action with a 21.5" threaded barrel. McMillan A-5 stock with and adj saddle cheek piece and adj length of pull currently set to 13.5". The scope is a Leupold MK4 6.5-20x50mm ER/T M1 (FFP) w/mildot reticle

When i opened the case to see the rifle the only thing that you can say is "Wow!". Looking at many pictures of other Tac Ops rifles youd think it would be like no big deal, but the pictures truely do not do any justice to this rifle! It really is an amazing work of art, the attention to detail with every aspect of this rifle is beyond belief! Well without dragging on any more here are some pics from a not so good camera from a far from professional photographer (me).

X-ray001.jpg


X-ray010.jpg


X-ray002.jpg


X-ray008.jpg


X-ray006.jpg


X-ray005.jpg


And finally, how she shot in the more then capable hands of Mile R.

X-ray004.jpg


These pics really do not do justice to this rifle, but its the best i could do at the moment. I hope to get out this weekend (if the weather allows) and see how i can do with this masterpiece!
 
#13
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beck.jamie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chris,

How does the wait feel now;) </div></div>

Well im still wating to fire it before i say it was worth the wait or not. The time while waiting for it... no it wasnt worth the wait.... But now that i have the rifle yes its a true work of art that was made just for me!
 
#15
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

So beautiful! I read about those rifles a little here and there. They make perhaps the best LEO rifle on the market. Does anyone know how good those rifles will perform in the field? Like a competition with adverse condition's. Someone tried to explain to me how a LEO rifle differs from a MIL rifle. LEO more accurate because it doesn't see harsh condition's a field rifle would see.

And what is that black stough on the grip areas?

Thanks,
Lw
 
#16
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So beautiful! I read about those rifles a little here and there. They make perhaps the best LEO rifle on the market. Does anyone know how good those rifles will perform in the field? Like a competition with adverse condition's. Someone tried to explain to me how a LEO rifle differs from a MIL rifle. LEO more accurate because it doesn't see harsh condition's a field rifle would see.

And what is that black stough on the grip areas?

Thanks,
Lw </div></div>

Well im sure Mike R. would be able to explain how well his rifles do in the field a lot better then i could. As far as the black stuff, its an epoxy texture so your hands dont slip as easily.
 
#17
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psycho-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So beautiful! I read about those rifles a little here and there. They make perhaps the best LEO rifle on the market. Does anyone know how good those rifles will perform in the field? Like a competition with adverse condition's. Someone tried to explain to me how a LEO rifle differs from a MIL rifle. LEO more accurate because it doesn't see harsh condition's a field rifle would see.

And what is that black stough on the grip areas?

Thanks,
Lw </div></div>

Well im sure Mike R. would be able to explain how well his rifles do in the field a lot better then i could. <span style="color: #FF0000">As far as the black stuff, its an epoxy texture so your hands dont slip as easily.</span> </div></div>

It looks almost rubbery. Is it real good grip wise? I have never seen it applicated like that before. It's kind of interesting...

Lw
 
#18
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psycho-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So beautiful! I read about those rifles a little here and there. They make perhaps the best LEO rifle on the market. Does anyone know how good those rifles will perform in the field? Like a competition with adverse condition's. Someone tried to explain to me how a LEO rifle differs from a MIL rifle. LEO more accurate because it doesn't see harsh condition's a field rifle would see.

And what is that black stough on the grip areas?

Thanks,
Lw </div></div>

Well im sure Mike R. would be able to explain how well his rifles do in the field a lot better then i could. <span style="color: #FF0000">As far as the black stuff, its an epoxy texture so your hands dont slip as easily.</span> </div></div>

It looks almost rubbery. Is it real good grip wise? I have never seen it applicated like that before. It's kind of interesting...

Lw </div></div>

No its not rubbery, its a hard compound. I think it will work quite well. When ordering you can choose what type of texturing you want for the grips, mine is medium texturing if i remember correctly.
 
#19
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonewolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know how good those rifles will perform in the field? Like a competition with adverse condition's. Someone tried to explain to me how a LEO rifle differs from a MIL rifle. LEO more accurate because it doesn't see harsh condition's a field rifle would see.</div></div>

Mike has said that it's not really a 'in the trenches' rifle, it's a precision instrument after all. However, the action itself is fairly lose (but the chamber is TIGHT) and there is a mud groove as well. It's not just used by LEO, there are military agencies who use his rigs although I don't know exactly which ones. As long as you don't go around using it as a club or a shovel you should be fine!

I intend to use mine for training, F-TR, tactical matches and hunting (Tango-51). And I don't care how long it takes, it's not like I'm going to be getting anything comparable anytime soon!
 
#21
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308JEFF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Awesome rifle dude!!! What was the cost of that very fine looking piece of machinery? </div></div>

The base price for an X-Ray is in the 4's and you can always have addons, threaded barrel, floorplate etching, different floorplate, etc... Its best just to call Mike R. as he does do package deals and throws in some of his items (drag bags, stock pad) but its all on an individual basis.
 
#24
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what do the tango 51 coast ?</div></div>

Give me a call I would be happy to speak with you. I am on Coms from 10:00 am till 11:30 pm PST seven days a week...

310-275-8797


<span style="font-weight: bold">Mike
Tac Ops</span>
 
#27
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

Yes they are definately cadillac's and real tac drivers. Just not the 4x4 I would want, but that's my opinion and choice. They have a accuracy guarentee of .25 moa or better, but with a chambering of .001 which deems as a risky run out. As far as competing in BR competition's your going to be going against people who built their rifles for that soul purpose.

And hunitng with it; I wouldn't reccommend shooting anything bigger than small game with a match grade round...
Now a gobbler at 50-110 yds seems pretty realistic as accurate as those those are.

As far as using it for a tactical competition that were not run&gun comp's where you can get some debrit in the chamber you will be ok but that extra accuracy isn't really going to show at anything over 400. That's 95% shooter past that. Unless I had some feedback on it's ability to operate in such a state I would not be confident in my rifle which is wrong from the get go.

If I owned one I would feel like I was dating a virgin prom queen whos dad was a Texas redneck. I think I would just take some pictures with her and stare at her at most.

LE sharpshooter yes; MIL sniper rifle no. More accurate than a military rifle but just not chambered for it no matter how you cut the cake it's only going to satisfy so many people.

I guess in terms of it being a good all around tactical rifle with BR abilities you have it made.

No poon intended as this is only my opinion.
Beautiful and highly accurate stick to say the least.

What do the x-ray's go for anyways?
Lw
 
#28
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes they are definately cadillac's and real tac drivers. Just not the 4x4 I would want, but that's my opinion and choice. They have a accuracy guarentee of .25 moa or better, but with a chambering of .001 which deems as a risky run out. As far as competing in BR competition's your going to be going against people who built their rifles for that soul purpose.

And hunitng with it; I wouldn't reccommend shooting anything bigger than small game with a match grade round...
Now a gobbler at 50-110 yds seems pretty realistic as accurate as those those are.

As far as using it for a tactical competition that were not run&gun comp's where you can get some debrit in the chamber you will be ok but that extra accuracy isn't really going to show at anything over 400. That's 95% shooter past that. Unless I had some feedback on it's ability to operate in such a state I would not be confident in my rifle which is wrong from the get go.

If I owned one I would feel like I was dating a virgin prom queen whos dad was a Texas redneck. I think I would just take some pictures with her and stare at her at most.

LE sharpshooter yes; MIL sniper rifle no. More accurate than a military rifle but just not chambered for it no matter how you cut the cake it's only going to satisfy so many people.

I guess in terms of it being a good all around tactical rifle with BR abilities you have it made.

No poon intended as this is only my opinion.
Beautiful and highly accurate stick to say the least.

What do the x-ray's go for anyways?
Lw </div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Lonewolf</span>,

A long time ago when I first spoke to Mike I had questions and concerns about how well his rifles function in field conditions too. While I'm not LEO or military my rifles and handguns are no strangers to grit and dust. I go out to the desert and shoot, so crap getting in the action is sometimes a given.

Tac Ops are true custom guns, and Mike has a variety of reamers for all-around, military, and LE applications which all fall under the .25 MOA guarantee.

Most customers go with the proprietary Tac Ops reamer for Federal Match.

If you have any more questions you should just call Mike and speak with him. I hope this helps.

Keith
 
#29
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They have a accuracy guarentee of .25 moa or better, but with a chambering of .001 which deems as a risky run out.</div></div>

I think you are referring to .001" of headspace with FGMM ammo (from the website). You can spec it another way, but Tac Ops builds their standard rifle around FGMM to squeeze max performance out of that round. If you are a hand loader, then you know that you can load a round to whatever headspace you want.

Honestly, I wouldn't use the Tac Ops website as a source of info. It is never updated, and Mike is always tweaking his standard build to get more performance. The best thing is to call Mike to see how he is doing it these days.

For hunting, depending on the model (really stock option), I think Tac Ops is perfect. You will not get the accuracy of FGMM using a hunting projectile, but with a Tac Ops, you might get the accuracy of FGMM out of most other guns with the added bonus of using an expansion-oriented projectile, avoiding the old saw about match bullets versus hunting bullets.

I agree with you that the standard Tac Ops offering is purpose-built for LEO, but he will tailor his build to your specs. All you have to do is ask.

One other thing... I wouldn't worry about dirt and debris with a Tac Ops. He uses the old school Remmy trigger, which is known for its ability to resist debris and his chamber has a proprietary mud gutter to wipe away debris. He doesn't do fluted bolts because he believes that they tend to collect debris, not mitigate it. It is not like he hasn't thought about how his rifles are going to function in the field. He has been selling to government agencies for over a decade. I would think that those customers would place at least as much emphasis on field functioning as weekend warriors, but maybe not.
 
#30
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

I am very seriously considering a Tango Series rifle in .308 for a dual purpose shooting sports/hunting rifle. I got an email into Mike for some info & I am going to call.

It looks like the Tango will handle very well in hunting conditions!!
 
#31
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buckey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am veryseriously considering a Tango in .308 for a dual purpose shooting sports/hunting rifle. I got an email into Mike for some info & I am going to call.

It looks like the Tango will handle very well in hunting conditions!! </div></div>
The Tango was designed for being a small move around rifle so yes, for a hunting application I believe it would be the way to go, I have a Lima on order and I plan to hunt with it, but main focus for it is competition.
 
#32
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

That is one thing I noticed when I called and talked to Mike. He had a no bullshit answer for every one of my questions on "why this over this" and what not. He has forgotten more about firearms than I'll ever know IMO, lol

I wouldn't worry about performance in the field, I'm sure he's though of that, just give him a call, he'll answer any of your questions
smile.gif


Jake
 
#33
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes they are definately cadillac's and real tac drivers. Just not the 4x4 I would want, but that's my opinion and choice. They have a accuracy guarentee of .25 moa or better, but with a chambering of .001 which deems as a risky run out.</div></div>

Sorry, I don't understand what this means.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As far as competing in BR competition's your going to be going against people who built their rifles for that soul purpose.</div></div>

Not BR, F-TR - .308, bipod, prone, weight restrictions etc. I have no aspirations of winning championships, just taking part and improving my own performance in the crucible of competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And hunitng with it; I wouldn't reccommend shooting anything bigger than small game with a match grade round...
Now a gobbler at 50-110 yds seems pretty realistic as accurate as those those are. </div></div>

I don't have to stick to match ammo, I can use whatever appropriate round for hunting. The accuracy guarantee pertains to the match ammo. You are free and able to use other .308 ammo. Many people develop their own handloads for their TacOps.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As far as using it for a tactical competition that were not run&gun comp's where you can get some debrit in the chamber you will be ok but that extra accuracy isn't really going to show at anything over 400. That's 95% shooter past that. Unless I had some feedback on it's ability to operate in such a state I would not be confident in my rifle which is wrong from the get go.</div></div>

I don't get this assumption. You're saying that past 400yds the accuracy is irrelevent? Why? The greater the distance, the greater the impact on accuracy of any deficiencies in design/construction at source. Of course, weather and wind reading play a significant part as well over distance. Why would you say the rifle is 'wrong'? It's a .308, how it that different than any other .308? In regards to debris, I imagine debris in any chamber is a bad thing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If I owned one I would feel like I was dating a virgin prom queen whos dad was a Texas redneck. I think I would just take some pictures with her and stare at her at most.</div></div>

I won't. I intend on taking her out for a ride - often - and putting her back nice and sweaty. Beside, I'm going to her daddy... (that was weird).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LE sharpshooter yes; MIL sniper rifle no. More accurate than a military rifle but just not chambered for it no matter how you cut the cake it's only going to satisfy so many people.</div></div>

I've zero military insight so can't comment. However, you'd be better off asking Mike directly. I believe he has military background and supplies military units with his rifles. Again, he's your best source, not me. There are other TacOps owners who have/are military, perhaps they can chime in and give better opinions.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No <span style="font-weight: bold">poon</span> intended as this is only my opinion.
Beautiful and highly accurate stick to say the least. </div></div>

Mate, I don't come here looking for poon I assure you!!
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do the x-ray's go for anyways?
Lw </div></div>

I don't know, I'm getting a Tango. I imagine it's in the $4k arena. I've shot an X-ray and it's a fantastic rifle to shoot. Heavier than a Tango, easy recoil, stay on site picture through the cycle. loved it. But not something I would want to carry around all day.

Again, a lot of misconception and BS can be swept aside with a call to Mike, he's very open and easy to talk to. I would only get something wrong and add to the confusion.

Hope some of that helped.
 
#34
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes they are definately cadillac's and real tac drivers.</div></div>

Yessir.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Just not the 4x4 I would want, but that's my opinion and choice. They have a accuracy guarentee of .25 moa or better, but with a chambering of .001 which deems as a risky run out.</div></div>

Look, I know a few of the folks on Mike's customer list. Are you REALLY going to tell me that your personal needs with this thing are going to be greater than the precision demands of a host of 3 and 4 letter US agencies?

Please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As far as competing in BR competition's your going to be going against people who built their rifles for that soul purpose.</div></div>

Homonyms, people. Sole, not soul.

And frankly, have you looked at what Tac Ops rifles can do? .25 MOA guarantee which are often as not shooting .1 MOA or better with the right person behind the trigger. I doubt that the OP is anywhere close to the level of accuracy that this rifle is capable of.

I think he will be just fine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And hunitng with it; I wouldn't reccommend shooting anything bigger than small game with a match grade round...
Now a gobbler at 50-110 yds seems pretty realistic as accurate as those those are.
</div></div>

What the hell are you on about? Do you have any idea who shoots what with match grade ammo?

Go tell a BUD/s or Scout Sniper graduate from KBRS of ANY stripe that he cant take a target at greater than 400 yards with match grade ammo. Good luck with that.

I have personally taken an elk with a match grade round in .243 to say nothing of what I have done with my usual 308.




I would strongly urge you to check your facts or check your writing. Either you aren't expressing yourself well or you have no idea what a rifle is or is not able to do for an operator in high-stress conditions. Mike builds rifles for the individual. If that individual is on a bench rest all the time punching paper, the build goes one way. If its an operator who needs to be able to drag it across an asphalt shingle roof to setup on an LE incident, its built for the purpose in whatever conditions that level of precision is going to be needed.

Go tell the over 600 agencies that are using this platform every day they are doing it wrong and a rifle from tac ops wont do well in the field.

crazy.gif

 
#35
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

EventHorizon,

The Tac Ops rifles are awesome. I have two of them and another on order. Also, Mike is threading my TRGs for his suppressor. I plan on ordering two of them once I am settled in Texas and the funds are available.

Here are the two I have now:

IMG_0005-2-1.jpg


Jamie
 
#36
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

I dont know why guys who have not spent one minute behind a TacOps have to try and justify why its not right for what ever use. I have had mine for a year and its still the most accurate rifle with factory ammo I have ever used. Now I took a ton of shit on here last year for that statement but time and time again guys are posting groups at least as good as what I get, so I think its about time to debunk the "Fluke Therory" Obviously Mike knows how to build a rifle and I have reported accurately.

As to real world use, Mike has a bunch of guys with far better credentails than me or anyone posting here that say its good to go for field use, so I wont argue. Mine has not failed me in anyway in a year. TacOps rifles see hard use.

His fit and finish are also the best I have seen in Sniper Rifle Class. Honestly better than I think the rifle needs to be but he puts his love into each one and wont let a dirt clod go out of his shop. I would like to see him offer detachable magazine as an option and have been strong arming him to do so for a year. Mike says he is working on his own design. I will see what he comes up and hope it uses AI type mags.

The discussion of accuracy is one you can get many opinions on. On another website they dont believe any rifle with factory ammo can shoot better than one moa while others say .50 moa and still others have .33 moa. Guys will quote emails from ammo companies and thier beat chest but facts of shooting the groups show the end result of the .25 moa claims. They are real!
 
#37
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

I always know when I see a TAC-Ops that it is going to be a really nice looking rifle that gets my attention. Never had the pleasure being behind one but one day when I save all my pennies I will have to take the plunge.
 
#39
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont know why guys who have not spent one minute behind a TacOps have to try and justify why its not right for what ever use. I have had mine for a year and its still the most accurate rifle with factory ammo I have ever used. Now I took a ton of shit on here last year for that statement but time and time again guys are posting groups at least as good as what I get, so I think its about time to debunk the "Fluke Therory" Obviously Mike knows how to build a rifle and I have reported accurately.

As to real world use, Mike has a bunch of guys with far better credentails than me or anyone posting here that say its good to go for field use, so I wont argue. Mine has not failed me in anyway in a year. TacOps rifles see hard use.

His fit and finish are also the best I have seen in Sniper Rifle Class. Honestly better than I think the rifle needs to be but he puts his love into each one and wont let a dirt clod go out of his shop. I would like to see him offer detachable magazine as an option and have been strong arming him to do so for a year. Mike says he is working on his own design. I will see what he comes up and hope it uses AI type mags.

The discussion of accuracy is one you can get many opinions on. On another website they dont believe any rifle with factory ammo can shoot better than one moa while others say .50 moa and still others have .33 moa. Guys will quote emails from ammo companies and thier beat chest but facts of shooting the groups show the end result of the .25 moa claims. They are real! </div></div>

Out of all the statements on this post, TACTICAL has summed it up the best. I wouldn't be one to worry about whether or not the rifle is a "4X4" if I've never used it and I wouldn't worry about chamber specs or anything else that I thought I knew about TacOps specs. I know that when I speak to a customer prior to a rifle build, I have a long list of questions and I listen carefully to what the details are that surround the use of the rifle. This is how I decide which reamer to use (all of which are Skunkworks specific), which stock, which bedding material, etc., etc. I know Mike R. and we've sat at the dinner table discussing a lot about the intricate details of designing and manufacturing the things that work from the "high-end" approach. He will ask and listen just the same and make decisions based on the application. Just because the rifles have a certain look or appeal, doesn't mean they won't take a beating in the field. That is where the science of making/selecting the right components separate quality from run of the mill.
 
#40
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

Learned a tremendous amount about Tac-Ops in the last few responses and it looks as if I might of raised a few peoples heart rates a little to. Sorry about that.

I do have one more question about the rifle before I decide to call Mike after I get this rifle I am getting ready to start building.

Why aren't other companies using the same method Tac-Ops is, so that their rifles are also guarenteed .25 MOA or better as well?
Same with the gunsmiths that build the sticks for the military. Why don't they use this as well. It would only make sense especially since it has that mud run out etc that makes it suitable for the field.

And what brand of epoxy is that on the grip areas?

Thanks again,
Lw
 
#41
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Why aren't other companies using the same method Tac-Ops is, so that their rifles are also guarenteed .25 MOA or better as well?
</div></div>

Honest answer? Time and cost.

When you want to make a lot of money doing something, how long it takes to put that thing together and how much it costs you, per unit, to make the build becomes very important.

Some people make choices about what they are willing to do and what is "acceptable" in the finished product as a result of those choices.

Mike R at Tac Ops makes the choice that he wants to measure his details differently and he is willing to ensure that every one of the products that leaves with the Tac Ops name is going to be held to the highest possible standard.

That means that the number of units he can build in a year is rather lower. That means that the time it takes to build a single unit is rather longer. That means that the techniques used to build the rifle are more expensive because every step along the way, if its a choice between time or money and quality, he will choose the meticulous route to ensure a top drawer platform.


Its really hard to make a lot of money that way. Thats not to say that other manufacturers don't put out a quality product, but simply to point out that the threshold of what is acceptable might be different.

People going with some of the other big-name producers are using a lot of parts from suppliers that have set tolerances. These are usually designated as "Match grade" tolerances, but set tolerances nonetheless. They can only control so much of the deviation in the finished product if they are accepting, as produced, parts from other people to assemble into a finished build.

Realize that for the majority of people, they will be able to order from any of the big name 'smiths and never be able to out-shoot their platform. For that small minority, however, investing in a Tac Ops platform means making that trade of time and money to realize that next whatever percent of performance improvement.
 
#43
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't other companies using the same method Tac-Ops is, so that their rifles are also guarenteed .25 MOA or better as well?</div></div>
That is an excellent question, and one that you should be asking of other builders, not Mike.
 
#44
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I doubt that the OP is anywhere close to the level of accuracy that this rifle is capable of. </div></div>

Well we will soon find out if i am or not. The whole purpose of getting this was to erase any other possible mechanical error and see where I stand, but with time im sure ill get there!
 
#45
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

roscoe's site says he offers the .25moa guarantee on his builds. not sure how far below .25 it would shoot but it says he offers .25

But like others have said, time and money. you can save alot of time and money by offering <.5moa rather than dragging it out trying to get that .25moa or less. and to come out at .1 or somewhere close is going to take time, money, and extreme precision milling, and thats what you paying for and getting with tac ops
 
#46
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

Not to rehash the match bullet for hunting debate but I used my tac ops tango for deer hunting last season. Not exactly a small game only rifle.

Although the tango is a lot heavier than a normal deer rifle it allows me to hunt a little differently. I got mine right behind the ear at 220 yards, exactly where I was aiming. The thing is like a laser beam.

I suppose if you prefer minute of deer with a corelokt and old hunting rifle then more power to you but to say that it's only useful for small game at close ranges is simply not true.
 
#47
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

Tac Ops rifles are picked by LEO and 3 letter agency's because those guys need the most dependable rifle they can get there hands on, not to start a pissing match, as I am sure there are alot of other good rifle builders out there, but Mike will always have my business because he not only builds a rifle that plain out shoots, but he also pays attention to every little aspect of the rifle, the man even times screws and HAND ENGRAVES his rifles.
Chris, I hope you dont mind me showing these pics,
Pics of engraving on Chris's rifle:
X-ray012.jpg


X-ray011.jpg
[/quote]


Mike incase you see this thread, my hats off too ya, another fine Tac Ops specimen.
Chris, enjoy it!
 
#48
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Why aren't other companies using the same method Tac-Ops is, so that their rifles are also guarenteed .25 MOA or better as well?
Same with the gunsmiths that build the sticks for the military. Why don't they use this as well.
</div></div>

I think Odd-ball answered this with the "time and money" comment.

If I were equipping a military, I would probably buy into the AI AW concept. These are factory rifles with 100% interchangeable parts. You can take a bolt from another AI AW, drop it into your AI AW, and the zero won't change significantly. You can do barrel changes in the field. The tolerances are tighter than Remington's, but the pieces are built to a tight enough spec to be able to easily repair a gun in the field. I really wouldn't want to depend on the skill of my armorers to be sure that my soldiers were properly equipped. I want a system that is so idiot proof that a ten-thumbed schmuck can make it work in the field. That is AI AW.

A custom rifle is going the other way... depending on the skill of the armorer. And the tolerances can be much tighter not because field function doesn't matter anymore, but because the work is done by a craftsman with precision machines in an almost cleanroom environment (barely feasible in some places that are impossible to pronounce without hawking a lugi). Mike builds the custom of the custom. His platforms are standardized, but not for the same reason AI standardizes... it is not for interchangeability, but for repeatability.

I was talking with Mike about my family steak recipe. We started with a recipe in the early 80's. It is much better today than it was back then because we use a standard recipe, and then we tweak it from time to time. If the results are better, we accept the tweak, otherwise we go back to the old recipe. The tweaks are tiny, but cumulative. Eventually, you end up with a steak 30 years later that is far better than what we started with.

The guns Mike was building ten years ago were less accurate than what he is making today... you see it in the shipped targets that once shot in the low .2's (enough for the .25 guarantee), then the .1's, and now a typical Tac Ops rifle ships with a test target in the .0's or low .1's. All shot with factory match ammo, not handloads.

Why is Mike making better guns than others? Because his standard platform has allowed him to evolve to better techniques over time.

Many smiths don't even bother to test fire their weapons for function let alone accuracy. If this is the case, how can they confirm what works and what does not? This is a standard W. Edwards Deming technique applied to rifle building. Mike has developed a recipe that works and he has steadily improved it over time.

That is my theory in my words, anyway, as to why and how Mike builds a better mouse trap.
 
#49
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is my theory in my words, anyway, as to why and how Mike builds a better mouse trap. </div></div>

Wow Mike builds mouse traps; the poor things don't stand a chance
smile.gif


Jamie
 
#50
Re: My Tac Ops X-Ray 51! 5-10-10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't other companies using the same method Tac-Ops is, so that their rifles are also guarenteed .25 MOA or better as well?</div></div>

Some of us are, it's called basic machine shop practices
wink.gif


Of course the extra thick concrete under our lathes and the specially formulated steel used as reinforcement doesn’t hurt either. Those are proprietary secrets Mike shared with me so don’t ask......yes I use them as well.
crazy.gif
 
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