Rifle Scopes My Vortex 6x24x50 PST... You fellows need to know..

[FALex]

I'm sorry were you saying something? I was busy shooting and running a match yesterday so I didn't have time for bullshit.

I should have taken the number of tender vaginas involved in these situations, as already indicated by my awareness of the syndromes that plague some personalities represented here. I apologize to all of those tender souls who may have thought I was insinuating there were 85 PST's that had shit the bed. That was not my intention.

Most here seem to be blaming everything from muzzle brakes to gunsmiths, hey gotta be something...right? What could it be?
How many people have sent one back more than once? How many have received a new scope every time? Why would they send you a new scope as opposed to fixing your broke one? Is it really their rock solid customer service of is it cheaper to replace it? Why is it cheaper to replace it? Do they have a refurb program? Can you buy a refurb?
If you think about those questions for a little while and look past your bruised moo moo you will find a glaring fact. You aren't getting a bargain, you are getting fucked. If they can replace the scope cheaper than they can fix it, then the sum of the parts aren't worth the labor to fix it, which would indicate the actual cost to produce the scope is very low. If that is the case(and it is)and you just paid $600 for that scope with all the nice bells and whistles, you just got fucked.
How many companies fix a scope if it goes tits up? How many other companies have great customer service? If you think sending you a brand new scope every time you have a problem is great customer service, you are pretty gullible. Great customer service usually starts by not fucking you out of your money with false economy.

Armorpl8 is dead-on with his assessment of labor and materials in Vortex products. If you folks knew what a good friend of mine paid for his Razor (through an employee pricing program), you'd shit a cinder block...I about did myself. Yes, I know, it is an "employee pricing program." However, the company is still not going to sell them at a loss even in such a program, and what he paid is far, far below the average retail. Upon learning this, the fact that 2/2 I bought had to be returned, immediately, made much more sense. That is also the reason why I know Armorpl8 is dead on. Speaking of which, his price for those PST's was absolutely stupid...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Some of you people are fucking dilusional. How is this a small pool? How does this thread show that there is less than a 1% failure rate in vortex products? Many people have reported failures and many have reported multiple failures. All 5 vortex products I bought took a crap and that doesn't include the replacements.

If you want to be a fanboy and swing from the nuts then fine, that doesn't mean that it's good shit.

Case in point:

http://www.hipointtalk.net/

 

[mdslammer]

I've had no issues with my NF 5.5-22x50mm on my Savage BA110 .338 Lapua Magnum with 1000 rounds down the pipe.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

So basically if a company stands by their product they are bastards for over charging the first time.

If a company doesnt stand behind their product they are bastards for not having good customer service.

Its a very dark world you live in sir, and your not the only one who shot matches this weekend, so that wont get you the wow factor here that it does on other sites.

That is the best reading comprehension you can come up with? What could you possibly know about the world I live in? I wasn't trying to wow anyone, but I understand your need to find some small thing to lash out at me about, to make me feel small. Enjoy your Vortex.

 

[42769vette]

Its got nothing to do with reading comprehension. You are complaining that they must mark the scope up to much because they take care of their customers. How exactly did I read it wrong, or where did you mis speak. Posts like yours are proof positive that people will complain if you treat them right, and complain if you don't.

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

I've had no issues with my NF 5.5-22x50mm on my Savage BA110 .338 Lapua Magnum with 1000 rounds down the pipe.

That's because it's a NF.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

OK let me spell it out.
They send you a new scope because it is more expensive for them to fix it, than replace it. Do you understand what that means. Hell I don't, but it was clearly explained to me by a friend who has one hell of a lot of experience in product claims and customer service, with a very large corporation that you have seen some of their product nearly everywhere you go. I will elaborate no further than that, but suffice it to say HE knows what he is talking about.
No I haven't looked at the price of a PST in a while. I had considered buying one. When I first began hearing some actual feedback, and saw how most who reported a problem were treated to a barbecueing on the internet, I figured I didn't want one. I have heard enough to know they are not for me. Most things I ever bought that had a fanboy following turned out to be rather disappointing. I don't care how people spend their money. I do care about people who tell the truth about a product and get dogpiled on by fanboys.

 

[42769vette]

I have absolutely no problem understanding what your saying. The point Im trying to make that your not understanding is people are going to complain no matter how they deal with it. If they did not have the profit margin to replace the scope and took 6 weeks to repair it then folks would complain about that. If they replace it folks are going to complain about that.

The point I'm trying to make is you will never make 100% of the consumers happy. Your goal is 51%

 

[Aimsmall55]

I have absolutely no problem understanding what your saying. The point Im trying to make that your not understanding is people are going to complain no matter how they deal with it. If they did not have the profit margin to replace the scope and took 6 weeks to repair it then folks would complain about that. If they replace it folks are going to complain about that.

The point I'm trying to make is you will never make 100% of the consumers happy. Your goal is 51%

Maybe if they didn't make a point to campaign their " VIP" warranty , there wouldn't be as much complaining. They use it as a marketing tool which I think has its pros and its cons ... Pros: your guaranteed a new or fixed scope if one breaks which is alluring to many folks who don't want to have to worry with warranty issues. Cons : they set themselves up for scrutiny due to a product which they market as a tough sob that will take a beating clearly WON'T. It's this marketing strategy that really pisses me off because they have to know the failure rate. But yet every time I'd send it back they'd tell me this is a flume and how sorry they were. Customer service is great ... But it doesn't make up for the fact that ive still got a rifle that is as useless as tits on a bull w/ o my optics.

 

[GB^Zeke]

I've been shooting my new SFP 6-24x50 for about 2 weeks now, having about 140 rounds thru it in .308 168 grain Federals and no issues yet. I was kinda freaking out when I saw this thread too but it seems like it's affecting only some larger calibers...

 

[scsims]

As I have mentioned on here before, I have a braked .338 Edge. Which is definitely not easy on my Vortex PST 6-24x50mm. But mine is a SFP, don't know if this is a big difference or not, but it seems that you all are mainly seeing the FFP fail. I have 150 rounds on this one and no problems yet......I hoping it stays that way. I just bought another one off here yesterday for my son's .308.

 

[bodywerks]

No armchair quarterbacking here. I get out and use my Vortex scopes often. Never an issue, and I've had others from Leupold and some cheaper scopes break as well. Sure, it sucks to have something break, but imagine if you bought from Nikon or other scope with a limited warranty and you were outside of the warranty. I'm not being a jerk, I'm just looking at their products bang for the buck, warranty, and overall track record. They are great for the money, and occasionally you will get one that will break. The same thing can be said of USO, Nightforce, or even GASP......S&B. Cheers.

And what caliber rifles are your vortex scopes mounted on?
Nobody, the OP included, is knocking their first class warranty. The problem is it's a first class warranty on a second class scope.
I owned a PST 4-16. Yep, tons of features, but glass was crap - I've owned millets with clearer glass. Sold the PST within a month.
My point? What's the point of all the bells and whistles if you can't even get the basics down(durability, repeatability, clear glass). And the best warranty in any business is the warranty you never have to use...

PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg

 

[bodywerks]

Weather anybody likes it or not, EVERYTHING breaks. Sure there is such a thing as quality in products, but I doubt that a company would give such a good warranty knowing there product was of poor quality. That definitely doesn't make them the best either. As we all know, the bad stories seem to stand out more than the good. I would put a bet that if you searched about the scopes you will find more people pleased than not.

Sure they would. They can justify a no questions asked warranty by charging far more than what the scope is worth to cover the cost of repairing a higher number of them.
The features of the PST line make them a desirable sub $1k scope, but reliability trumps features any day of the week.


PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg

 

[kamakauzy]

Of course, I just bought a PST FFP Viper....

 

[Aimsmall55]

Boy , this thread has blown up. I would really like to go over what happened the first time. I had it mounted on a Remington 700 P .300 win mag with a thruster brake , badger ordnance 20 moa rail and medium rings. The scope lasted a really long time before I started seeing problems. At least 9 months maybe longer.... It's been a while ago. The tracking was spot on and i thought i had struck gold. I know one thing , I put ALOT of rounds down the tube. I had absolutely no clue as to why my groups started opening up, I thought it was the rifle. Then I decided to put a 5.5x22 NF NXS. It started shooting " like it was supposed to". I called vortex and shipped it back. Got it fixed got it back and this time it didn't last very long at all. It seemed every time I got it fixed , the shorter it "functioned properly". I don't blame Vortex. I blame myself for repeatedly putting it on a rifle which it clearly had no business going on. It just couldn't handle it. And deep down I knew it. But I really respected the reviews and the people I spoke with at Vortex. Fast forward... FOUR returns ... ONE new scope that started showing the " signs of failure " I had seen before. So the last time I got it back I gave it to one of my buddies who shoots a 6mm hunting rifle which i thought appropriate because it kicks next to nothing and he's working his way threw med school with a wife and 2 kids and doesn't have the $ to drop on a scope like that. That pretty much sums it up

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I don't agree when you say "I blame myself for repeatedly putting it on a rifle which it clearly had no business going on". Any $700+ scope should be more than capable of standing up to a magnum rifle with or without a brake. The similar priced Bushnell Elite's do, as do the SWFA's that cost as little as $300.

IMO good scopes don't come out of the Philippines, just look at all the refurbed Nikon and Burris. There is plenty of evidence for me to believe that they experience a much higher failure rate than optics that are produced in countries like Japan, Germany, and here. I've sent several Nikons back and a couple Burris models and I have not owned a lot of them so that's a very high failure rate for me as well. Just like the case with Vortex they were all replaced with rand new scopes and not replaced. It's evident though that both companies send them back for repair and then sell them as refurbs with a shorter warranty at an even lower price. This makes me wonder what Vortex is doing with the broken scopes they replaced, surely they're not throwing them away. If Nikon and Burris can afford to fix them and resell them at a lower cost why would they toss them? So are they refurbishing them and customers don't know? Are the recycling the parts? Or are they just toss them because they can afford to? If there's enough of a profit margin for them to give away a few free scope when they fail then there's enough of a profit margin to fix them and resell.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I don't agree when you say "I blame myself for repeatedly putting it on a rifle which it clearly had no business going on". Any $700+ scope should be more than capable of standing up to a magnum rifle with or without a brake. The similar priced Bushnell Elite's do, as do the SWFA's that cost as little as $300.

IMO good scopes don't come out of the Philippines, just look at all the refurbed Nikon and Burris. There is plenty of evidence for me to believe that they experience a much higher failure rate than optics that are produced in countries like Japan, Germany, and here. I've sent several Nikons back and a couple Burris models and I have not owned a lot of them so that's a very high failure rate for me as well. Just like the case with Vortex they were all replaced with rand new scopes and not replaced. It's evident though that both companies send them back for repair and then sell them as refurbs with a shorter warranty at an even lower price. This makes me wonder what Vortex is doing with the broken scopes they replaced, surely they're not throwing them away. If Nikon and Burris can afford to fix them and resell them at a lower cost why would they toss them? So are they refurbishing them and customers don't know? Are the recycling the parts? Or are they just toss them because they can afford to? If there's enough of a profit margin for them to give away a few free scope when they fail then there's enough of a profit margin to fix them and resell.

Agreed , I guess what I should have said is I knew what the outcome was going to be and just stuck with the NF. Any how, hindsight is 20/20. There's a lot of shit that I don't know and will not claim to know about their "fixes". Where it goes , interchange of parts , actual test procedure to identify failures and their policy at the actual company as to what's acceptable and considered " acceptable".

But it's not a problem anymore for me. But I still hate to see guys wanting to choke each over stupid "pride issues" because we all know EVERYBODY on this site is ALWAYS RIGJT on what their opinions are about a given subject. It's the damnedest thing. I think sometimes I could post about how my annealing technique is working so good for me .... And it never fails.... Some dufus has to come back and tell me that with out an annealing machine that cost 500$ , there's no way it could be as good as their stuff. Just stupid shit like that

 

[Flyboyzack]

I don't agree when you say "I blame myself for repeatedly putting it on a rifle which it clearly had no business going on". Any $700+ scope should be more than capable of standing up to a magnum rifle with or without a brake. The similar priced Bushnell Elite's do, as do the SWFA's that cost as little as $300.

IMO good scopes don't come out of the Philippines, just look at all the refurbed Nikon and Burris. There is plenty of evidence for me to believe that they experience a much higher failure rate than optics that are produced in countries like Japan, Germany, and here. I've sent several Nikons back and a couple Burris models and I have not owned a lot of them so that's a very high failure rate for me as well. Just like the case with Vortex they were all replaced with rand new scopes and not replaced. It's evident though that both companies send them back for repair and then sell them as refurbs with a shorter warranty at an even lower price. This makes me wonder what Vortex is doing with the broken scopes they replaced, surely they're not throwing them away. If Nikon and Burris can afford to fix them and resell them at a lower cost why would they toss them? So are they refurbishing them and customers don't know? Are the recycling the parts? Or are they just toss them because they can afford to? If there's enough of a profit margin for them to give away a few free scope when they fail then there's enough of a profit margin to fix them and resell.

I agree 100% here. You CAN get a good scope that will take whatever you can throw at it for $300. I have two SWFA scopes, one a 300 dollar fixed 10x, and the new 3-15x42 that is 700. I can tell you that they have taken repeated shots with heavy magnums (.338 Lapua, .300 Win Mag, and 7WSM) with NO PROBLEMS.

It makes me a little nervous that people tout Vortex's great customer service. That's obviously important, but when too many people are so familiar with returning scopes, then you should think twice about the overall ruggedness of the scope. If a 300 dollar scope can take a beating, then there is no reason why a 800-950 scopes shouldn't, even though it has many more good features than the other one.

It just makes me nervous about a new RAZOR HD 5-20 I just purchased. I just really hope since these scopes are much more expensive and made in Japan, that they are just as solid as my SWFA or Bushnell Elites that I have. I mean, I could have bought a Nightforce for that money, so I just hope it is super solid and will hold up to hard use.

 

[bodywerks]

I agree 100% here. You CAN get a good scope that will take whatever you can throw at it for $300. I have two SWFA scopes, one a 300 dollar fixed 10x, and the new 3-15x42 that is 700. I can tell you that they have taken repeated shots with heavy magnums (.338 Lapua, .300 Win Mag, and 7WSM) with NO PROBLEMS.

It makes me a little nervous that people tout Vortex's great customer service. That's obviously important, but when too many people are so familiar with returning scopes, then you should think twice about the overall ruggedness of the scope. If a 300 dollar scope can take a beating, then there is no reason why a 800-950 scopes shouldn't, even though it has many more good features than the other one.

It just makes me nervous about a new RAZOR HD 5-20 I just purchased. I just really hope since these scopes are much more expensive and made in Japan, that they are just as solid as my SWFA or Bushnell Elites that I have. I mean, I could have bought a Nightforce for that money, so I just hope it is super solid and will hold up to hard use.

True. There are rugged cheap scopes out there, like the ones you mentioned. The difference is they don't have all the bells and whistles of the PST. But like I said earlier, bells and whistles mean dick if you can't keep the scope functional. The cheaper ones you mentioned either don't have variable zoom, have a smaller objective, aren't FFP, don't have an illuminated reticle, or zero stop. BUT(and an important one) they work!

PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg

 

[mouse07410]

Don't worry about Razor. It takes 338LM just fine (as my DTA would attest). Also, it's tracking great.

You should see Lowlight's review of Razor HD here on SH a couple of years ago. It would ease your concerns, I think.


Mouse
NRA Life Member Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[pc3]

Don't worry about Razor. It takes 338LM just fine (as my DTA would attest). Also, it's tracking great.

You should see Lowlight's review of Razor HD here on SH a couple of years ago. It would ease your concerns, I think.


Mouse
NRA Life Member Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

Can someone please re-post the review Low light did on the Razor I cannot find it anywhere and links take me back to the Hide homepage for some reason.

cheers pc3

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

Can someone please re-post the review Low light did on the Razor I cannot find it anywhere and links take me back to the Hide homepage for some reason.

cheers pc3

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pc-aov6G7g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[redneckbmxer24]

True. There are rugged cheap scopes out there, like the ones you mentioned. The difference is they don't have all the bells and whistles of the PST. But like I said earlier, bells and whistles mean dick if you can't keep the scope functional. The cheaper ones you mentioned either don't have variable zoom, have a smaller objective, aren't FFP, don't have an illuminated reticle, or zero stop. BUT(and an important one) they work!

Reliability and tracking is the most important function of a scope. Second would be the knobs and reticle which even the $300 classic line has the mil quad which is a fantastic reticle as well as audible and tactile mil knobs. Everything else comes next.

The fixed powers obviously don't have the opportunity to be FFP so that's a moot point but all of the variable SWFA's are FFP. As far as the illuminated reticle goes probably 95% of users don't need it and the 5% that might aren't going to need it often. It's never a bad thing to have but it's not a must. The "zero stop" on the PST is a freaking joke and due to the design puts stress on the scope every time it's turned down to it. It's also not a true zero stop in the sense that you can't set it so that you have a positive stop where you want it, they're simply some shims that keep you from going a full revolution beyond zero. These shims can be made for any scope relatively easy with some delrin and for the longest time there was a guy making them for several different scopes and selling them. Nightforce actually came out and said they won't warranty any scopes that people have installed these in because of the stress that they put on the scope when the turret bottoms out on them.

 

[bodywerks]

Not sure if you caught that I was agreeing with you. I agree that so many of the features of the PST are either not needed(FFP, illuminated reticle) or easily duplicated (zero stop using shims). The addition of upper end features in a lower end scope take away from the attention to the basic necessities of a good scope ( clear glass, true tracking, durability).

PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg

 

[pc3]

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pc-aov6G7g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks that's the one.

 

[bodywerks]

And FFP...

PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg