N570 with 350g Cuttings Edge Lazers?

[Joden]

I know this has been discussed on here, but wanted to gather any updates from anyone shooting a .375 Cheytac and what they have been using for a load?

Getting my custom build soon and hope to make the 350g Lazers work for hunting (One load that is legal in CA and can be used everywhere else) and long range shooting. Why 350g. To mitigate recoil as much as I can to enable self spotting when hunting alone. I know not much difference between 350 vs 400 but there is a felt recoil difference regardless.

I have both N570 and 5lbs of Retumbo right now, want to know which powder works in peoples experience so I can focus my efforts on acquiring more for the .375.

Question:
Is N570 too slow for the 350's. Really want to make N570 work since it's more available than Retumbo, not just recently but overall in the last decade.

I understand the following things about N570:
-Burns hotter, possible cutting down on barrel life but increasing velocity a bit.
-Dirtier

Don't really care too much about these items above if performance is good.

I understand the rumors about N570 being Temp sensitive and there's been two opinions on that. Anyone have actual experience to say yay or nay on temp sensitivity.

Bottom line, if you had all the Retumbo and N570 in the world and shortage wasn't an issue, what would you use in your .375 Cheytac shooting 350 size bullets?

Thanks in advance fellas!

Here's my Stats:

Gun is being made by Brian at Shoot-long.com.
29" Proof Research 1-8" twist
Stiller 1.45" repeater
T5 Muzzle brake
XLR chassis
7x35 NF
Peterson brass.
Fed 215 primers
Applied Ballistics Dies

 

[Rocketmandb]

I have 3 lbs of Retumbo and just ordered 12 lbs of N570. I'm getting what I can get right now

 

[Joden]

I have 3 lbs of Retumbo and just ordered 12 lbs of N570. I'm getting what I can get right now

Same here

 

[Dogtown]

I'd use N570 over Retumbo, if you want to squeeze as much performance out of that cartridge as you can.

 

[Joden]

I'd use N570 over Retumbo, if you want to squeeze as much performance out of that cartridge as you can.

Dogtown, have you found a good load with the N570?

Yeah I hear you get a bit more velocity and that's my mindset as well since I'm going to have a 28-29" barrel (Gunsmith is shortening the shank a bit to save weight in the already 6.3 lbs Proof barrel) so I'd like get back some of the performance that I'll be loosing, not that chasing velocity is king but it's a "nice to have".

 

[Dogtown]

I don't have a .375CT anymore and N570 wasn't around back when I was shooting it. I shoot a .338 LM Improved 40 instead and N570 and RL33 are the go-to powders for that.

 

[Dogtown]

Just some QL comparisons for you. These are right at the edge of what you would want to push pressure-wise. N570 gives you a bit of a velocity advantage over Retumbo.

 

[Joden]

Thanks for running the numbers Dogtown! I have a .338 AI as we speak and having the cheytac built now, if N570 can work on my AI I also accomplish my secondary goal of focusing on purchasing one type of powder for both guns.

Don't care about barrel life over performance and consistency but I am curious, have you noticed a difference shooting the hotter N570 in pressure build up due to the dirtier powder and barrel life?

 

[Dogtown]

N570 is definitely a bit dirtier, but I rarely shoot more than 30-40 rounds out of it in a session and haven't seen any marked difference in barrel life. Also, RL33 is a great powder in the same burn rate range (maybe a tad slower), but I find that I get more consistent results with N570. And that's not a combustion/primer issue (I use the same GM215M), just seems to be the consistency of burn rate. Over the past few years I had to work up loads using both primarily because I couldn't reliably get N570 the way I could RL33.

 

[MOUNTIC]

All I shot in mine when I had it was 350 lasers and retumbo. Peterson brass and 215m primers. 131 grains of retumbo was the ticket for me. 125 shot really well but was on the slower side. The 131 load for me was just as accurate and produced much more velocity. The 126 started to open up. By 130 it was back to half inch and 131 was under that. .38 5 round group. There are accuaracy nodes in that 125gr and 130/131 range with retumbo.

 

[powerspc]

I’m shooting a CDX-40 Shadow;

• 32” Bartlein barrel
• 1-7” twist
• 350gr. SMK’s
• Peterson Brass
• Trimmed: 3.0060”
• CBTO: 3.3315”
• COL: 4.200”
• federal 215M Primers

I bought 2 8 lb jugs of N570 while I was waiting for my dies to arrive; in the interim I stumbled upon 10 lbs. of Retumbo. The 570 was recommended by someone at Cadex who said they were seeing good results, but I had originally intended to use Retumbo based on other recommendations I had seen. In any case, I ended up going with the Retumbo and the results have been spectacular. 130 grains is getting me around 3070 fps with an ES/SD which has been excellent. These are all 5 shot groups shot at 100 yards, all .5 MOA or better:

Group 1:

FPS: 3071

ES: 7

SD: 3.12



Group 2:

FPS: 3069

ES: 4

SD: 1.86



Group 3:

FPS: 3066

ES: 4

SD: 1.72



Group 4:

FPS: 3071

ES: 17

SD: 6.82



Group 5:

FPS: 3071

ES: 7

SD: 3.12

P.s. I have had it out to 1800 yards with multiple hits on steel (26"x34" rectangle) with that load.

P.p.s. I ended up using the N570 for my .338 Lapua Magnum with 250gr. Lapua Scenars and that has also been very good!

 

[GIXXER2000]

I am currently shooting 375ct 34 in heavy barrel 1-7 twist. Here are the loads I use

Bullet 400 CE Lazer
Brass Peterson
Primer 215m
Powder N570 131.5 GR
SD=7.7
Avg 3066
COAL 4.75
Personal best at ELR Match 5x5 at 2195 on 40x40 plate and 2x5 at 3090 40x40 plate.

I don't shoot lead core bullets with my new Bartlein 1-7 twist. When i had Robert Vestal rebarrel my Cadex Shadow he didn't recommend shooting any lead bullets with a 1-7 twist. If I wanted to shoot the 390 A Tips I would go to a 1-8.

In my factory Shadow 1-7 twist barrel I did shoot some 350 smk but was a light load

Bullet 350SMK
Peterson Brass
primer 215m
powder Retumbo 128GR
SD= 9.1
AVG 2998
COAL 4.22

 

[Joden]

All I shot in mine when I had it was 350 lasers and retumbo. Peterson brass and 215m primers. 131 grains of retumbo was the ticket for me. 125 shot really well but was on the slower side. The 131 load for me was just as accurate and produced much more velocity. The 126 started to open up. By 130 it was back to half inch and 131 was under that. .38 5 round group. There are accuaracy nodes in that 125gr and 130/131 range with retumbo.

Thanks for the info MNTC

 

[Joden]

I am currently shooting 375ct 34 in heavy barrel 1-7 twist. Here are the loads I use

Bullet 400 CE Lazer
Brass Peterson
Primer 215m
Powder N570 131.5 GR
SD=7.7
Avg 3066
COAL 4.75
Personal best at ELR Match 5x5 at 2195 on 40x40 plate and 2x5 at 3090 40x40 plate.

I don't shoot lead core bullets with my new Bartlein 1-7 twist. When i had Robert Vestal rebarrel my Cadex Shadow he didn't recommend shooting any lead bullets with a 1-7 twist. If I wanted to shoot the 390 A Tips I would go to a 1-8.

In my factory Shadow 1-7 twist barrel I did shoot some 350 smk but was a light load

Bullet 350SMK
Peterson Brass
primer 215m
powder Retumbo 128GR
SD= 9.1
AVG 2998
COAL 4.22

That's all great info, thanks Gixxer!

 

[Geno C.]

I am currently shooting 375ct 34 in heavy barrel 1-7 twist. Here are the loads I use

Bullet 400 CE Lazer
Brass Peterson
Primer 215m
Powder N570 131.5 GR
SD=7.7
Avg 3066
COAL 4.75
Personal best at ELR Match 5x5 at 2195 on 40x40 plate and 2x5 at 3090 40x40 plate.

I don't shoot lead core bullets with my new Bartlein 1-7 twist. When i had Robert Vestal rebarrel my Cadex Shadow he didn't recommend shooting any lead bullets with a 1-7 twist. If I wanted to shoot the 390 A Tips I would go to a 1-8.

In my factory Shadow 1-7 twist barrel I did shoot some 350 smk but was a light load

Bullet 350SMK
Peterson Brass
primer 215m
powder Retumbo 128GR
SD= 9.1
AVG 2998
COAL 4.22

I doubt the 390s will hold together out of an 8 either

 

[Geno C.]

Look at the badlands 350gr. It has a higher bc and is very consistent. Usually less expensive also, which is a bonus. I’ve run them past 3000 with great results

 

[Joden]

Look at the badlands 350gr. It has a higher bc and is very consistent. Usually less expensive also, which is a bonus. I’ve run them past 3000 with great results

Those bullets have a hi BC, curious how they tested them and if they might be inflated. Worth a box to try out I guess!?

 

[Geno C.]

I’ve ran them for 2 years. Their numbers hold solid. Their 285gr was a little understated for me but I was pushing them pretty fast.

 

[Joden]

I’ve ran them for 2 years. Their numbers hold solid. Their 285gr was a little understated for me but I was pushing them pretty fast.

Just spoke to George at Badlands, said he knew you and what you've done with the bullets. I'm using them for hunting so I would need to run the 365g Bulldozers. Going to order a box. Looks like according to Berger's twist rate calculator going at 2900fps worse case on a 1-8" twist barrel they would be plenty stable at a stability factor of 2.05.

I do like how badlands also makes a 275 and 300g bullet in a 375CT! Man that must be smoken. Have you or anyone on here shot their lighter for caliber bullets out of a cheytac?

And Geno, what was your load details for the 350 Badlands? Did you run N570 with them?

 

[Geno C.]

George is a really good guy that I consider a friend.

Those lighter bullets were designed with the 375 H&H in mind. I have a friend working a load for them right now in his H&H for his African hunt.

I shoot a Snipetac so my load really wouldn’t be applicable. I’m running 149.5gr of H50bmg and running 3172fps. Well, actually my wife if shooting that one now.

 

[Joden]

George is a really good guy that I consider a friend.

Those lighter bullets were designed with the 375 H&H in mind. I have a friend working a load for them right now in his H&H for his African hunt.

I shoot a Snipetac so my load really wouldn’t be applicable. I’m running 149.5gr of H50bmg and running 3172fps. Well, actually my wife if shooting that one now.

3172 with what size of 338 bullet?

 

[Geno C.]

3172 with what size of 338 bullet?

350gr 375cal bullet

 

[TxDerek]

I can 2nd the statement by @Geno C. that the badlands numbers aren't inflated. I haven't tried the 375 caliber projectiles, but I do run the 265gr icbm-2 solids in my 33xc and they shoot incredible. I just recently shot my best 3 shot group ever at 1000y while I was checking some down range performance. Numbers are spot on and just run normal truing for your dope. We will be trying some of the 375 cal projectiles in the future.

 

[THEIS]

I do like how badlands also makes a 275 and 300g bullet in a 375CT! Man that must be smoken. Have you or anyone on here shot their lighter for caliber bullets out of a cheytac?

Hi,

I will have to give them a try in standard CT cartridges.

The 2nd projectile ever designed for the 408CT was a 305gr projectile so there has always been "something" with the lighter weight in class projectiles

With the design of the Badlands bullets....I could see their lighter weight in class actually being pretty useful for those that are not concerned about barrel wear.

The "downside" of the 305gr 408 bullet way back was the actual design of it....It was described with the old physics formula of "Faster it goes, faster it slows" because mono bullet design for BC was relatively new back then. Back then monos were just big hunks of metal designed for energy, not ballistic efficiency.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Dogtown]

Hey, someone else remembers the 305gr LRBT!

I used to push it to close to 3300fps with N560 which made it really flat out to about 900m, but then it would drop pretty quickly beyond that while the 419gr would stay supersonic to about 2000m. The way it was explained to me by Warren J was that it was designed to be a cartridge that had a a pretty far point blank zero, so if you were sitting in a static position in A'stan you could just aim center mass on a dude and hit him out to about 900m. And man, those copper/nickel solids fouled the bore so quickly too.

 

[THEIS]

Hey, someone else remembers the 305gr LRBT!

I used to push it to close to 3300fps with N560 which made it really flat out to about 900m, but then it would drop pretty quickly beyond that while the 419gr would stay supersonic to about 2000m. The way it was explained to me by Warren J was that it was designed to be a cartridge that had a a pretty far point blank zero, so if you were sitting in a static position in A'stan you could just aim center mass on a dude and hit him out to about 900m. And man, those copper/nickel solids fouled the bore so quickly too.

Hi,

Doesn't everyone remember the "Dominators"...100yd to 1000yd just just aim and pull the trigger. No messing with calculations for this, accounting for that, etc...lolol

But they fell out of the sky just as fast as they made it to 1000yd, hahaha

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[secondofangle2]

my experience with n570 and retumbo in the 350 class including 352 CEB and 350 SMK is that n570 is more consistent, more accurate, and gets 50-100 fps more speed at a given pressure, allowing 3200 fps from a 35" barrel, realistically in multiple barrels (Lilja, K&P).

Also way harder to find even in normal times, and those logs need bucked - they don't meter worth a shit (it's the price you pay, I guess). I bet they mess with the autotrickler bad - I hand trickle the last couple of grains, after dispensing the bulk of the charge from a RCBS uniflow measure.

Good Luck!

SOA

 

[Steel head]

I can 2nd the statement by @Geno C. that the badlands numbers aren't inflated. I haven't tried the 375 caliber projectiles, but I do run the 265gr icbm-2 solids in my 33xc and they shoot incredible. I just recently shot my best 3 shot group ever at 1000y while I was checking some down range performance. Numbers are spot on and just run normal truing for your dope. We will be trying some of the 375 cal projectiles in the future.

I zero’d my 338 and 265 badlands at 100, went straight to 1525 yards with the speed and listed BC and made a first round hit at 2025 yards.
BC was GTG.

 

[TxDerek]

I zero’d my 338 and 265 badlands at 100, went straight to 1525 yards with the speed and listed BC and made a first round hit at 2025 yards.
BC was GTG.

If you haven't checked it out yet, applied ballistics has badlands 338s and 375s in their library. 0.484g7 for the 285gr solid and 0.536g7 for the 400gr solid... Crazy impressive. Running a 484g7 285gr solid at 3300 in the 33xc is quite potent.

 

[Steel head]

If you haven't checked it out yet, applied ballistics has badlands 338s and 375s in their library. 0.484g7 for the 285gr solid and 0.536g7 for the 400gr solid... Crazy impressive. Running a 484g7 285gr solid at 3300 in the 33xc is quite potent.

I didn’t know that.