Rifle Scopes Narrowed down to three, help me choose

[Someone]

Hi guys,
I’ll just start with yes I am new here, but I have been reading for a while now. I have used search and it has helped me narrow my choice of optic to three.
1)Nikon black FX1000 4-16x50(least of my 3 favorites because on every one I look through I have to adjust the eyepiece all the way to the right to focus)
2)vortex viper pst gen 1 4-16x50
3)sig tango4 4-16x44

All of these fit a sub $500 budget currently. Going on a new savage 110 tact .308.
I really like what I am reading on the tango, but not many videos on YouTube on the newer version. One video I found says no more revolution counter on elevation turret and no more “lockdown” on elevation turret. I like the dev-l MRAD reticle.
I looked at the Diamondback 4-16 for ffp at an affordable price but wasn’t super impressed(and yes I know all are budget scopes), but looking at roughly $100 more than the Diamondback I can get quite a bit more scope it seems.
Help a brother out, please!

 

[wapiti16b]

Vortex has a great warranty and customer service, of the three Vortex!

 

[LawnMM]

Sig

 

[Someone]

Sig

Can you tell me why? And what do you know the answers to my questions on lockdown and rev counter on newer tango4?

 

[koshkin]

Probably none of the above to be honest.

If I were you, I would look for a used Vortex PST Gen2 3-15x44. You should be able to find one for around $500 if you can wait a little.

All three of these are roughly from the same generation of products, likely from the same Phillipine OEM.

PST Gen 1 4-16x50 was the second weakest of the PST line-up and Gen 2 is a huge leap forward from that.

Nikon is out of the scope business and I would stay away from anything Nikon at this point.

Tango4 4-16x44 is a decent scope, but again if you find a used PST Gen2 3-15x44, it is substantially better.

ILya

 

[LawnMM]

Can you tell me why? And what do you know the answers to my questions on lockdown and rev counter on newer tango4?

Because Vortex does, indeed, have an outstanding warranty, and if you buy one... you'll use it.

No idea on locking turret or rev counter.

 

[Someone]

Because Vortex does, indeed, have an outstanding warranty, and if you buy one... you'll use it.

No idea on locking turret or rev counter.

Seems reasonable. Do you have any experience with sig? What do you like about it if so?

 

[Kadams1563]

I would wait and save a little more money. Move up a couple hundred and your in GEN II PST range. Much better scope then the GEN 1 PST.

 

[Someone]

Probably none of the above to be honest.

If I were you, I would look for a used Vortex PST Gen2 3-15x44. You should be able to find one for around $500 if you can wait a little.

All three of these are roughly from the same generation of products, likely from the same Phillipine OEM.

PST Gen 1 4-16x50 was the second weakest of the PST line-up and Gen 2 is a huge leap forward from that.

Nikon is out of the scope business and I would stay away from anything Nikon at this point.

Tango4 4-16x44 is a decent scope, but again if you find a used PST Gen2 3-15x44, it is substantially better.

ILya

What do you mean by weakest? Optical quality?

and when comparing tango 4 to the gen 2 what is substantially better?Glass? Build? Illuminated reticle?

 

[Someone]

I would wait and save a little more money. Move up a couple hundred and your in GEN II PST range. Much better scope then the GEN 1 PST.

Dude, I’m all for gen II, but I can get any of these for about $420-440. Not really looking to hit $650 or better I don’t think, but what makes the gen II that much nicer. I may take a second look. And let me know best place to find one on the low. Haha.
seriously though I appreciate the input.

 

[supercorndogs]

Probably none of the above to be honest.

If I were you, I would look for a used Vortex PST Gen2 3-15x44. You should be able to find one for around $500 if you can wait a little.

All three of these are roughly from the same generation of products, likely from the same Phillipine OEM.

PST Gen 1 4-16x50 was the second weakest of the PST line-up and Gen 2 is a huge leap forward from that.

Nikon is out of the scope business and I would stay away from anything Nikon at this point.

Tango4 4-16x44 is a decent scope, but again if you find a used PST Gen2 3-15x44, it is substantially better.

ILya

Anything? No camera lenses, binoculars, nothing? Why?

 

[Someone]

Anything? No camera lenses, binoculars, nothing? Why?

Just scopes. I had already read this. They are keeping camera, binos, rangefinders.

 

[supercorndogs]

I just wondered if that was what he meant, or if he meant "anything." I probably should have PMed it. Rather than clutter up your thread.

I saw someone say, Optics planet had the sand camo xtrII 5-25 for 650.

 

[koshkin]

Anything? No camera lenses, binoculars, nothing? Why?

Nikon as a company has generally been sorta in the crapper for a little while now. Them pulling out of the riflescopes market is only partially because they hate guns. The have always hated guns. However, they also couldn't compete. They are kinda sliding along on name recognition, but they managed to mismanage their camera line-up so thoroughly that they are rapidly losing market share. The binoculars and spotters should be OK, except their spotter eyepieces need work. Although if they go bankrupt, all bets are off.

Camera sales were declining anyway, but this whole corona lockdown issue has made it even worse. If memory serves me right, camera sales are right now down 65% and lens sales are down around 50%. Nikon photo and sport optics businesses normally lose money and their semiconductor division bails them out, but now we are in a global slowdown, so their semiconductor division is not feeling so hot either.

It is not clear if Nikon will survive. As we come out of the lockdown, more than half of their local distribution outlets will probably be out of business. More importantly, this will facilitate further transition to primarily online sales and Nikon's marketing team is the world's worst at online marketing and by a solid margin (not an easy achievement since other Japanese companies set that bar very high).

Photo companies who learn to even partially go direct to consumer will survive. I don't know if Nikon will be one of them.

ILya

 

[supercorndogs]

Thank you for taking the time. I was in the market for a few things.

 

[koshkin]

Thank you for taking the time. I was in the market for a few things.

On the other hand, if noone buys Nikon products they will definitely go out of business.

If they make something you believe is better than the competition, I would take the risk. Not with riflescopes though.

ILya

 

[JeremyV]

I got the Nikon for a 22lr trainer for my wife and it won’t track or hold zero about to try sending it back and see what happens lol. I would go with vortex out of those options but I wouldn’t buy a gen1 viper.. save for a gen2 if you can it will be well worth the wait..

 

[koshkin]

I got the Nikon for a 22lr trainer for my wife and it won’t track or hold zero about to try sending it back and see what happens lol. I would go with vortex out of those options but I wouldn’t buy a gen1 viper.. save for a gen2 if you can it will be well worth the wait..

For now, it seems like they are still able to service them.

ILya

 

[Someone]

Deleted.

 

[Someone]

I got the Nikon for a 22lr trainer for my wife and it won’t track or hold zero about to try sending it back and see what happens lol. I would go with vortex out of those options but I wouldn’t buy a gen1 viper.. save for a gen2 if you can it will be well worth the wait..

So aside from moving the illumination dial and changing the zero stop, what makes the gen 2 so much better?

 

[fdkay]

In that price range I'd look at the Athlon Midas tac 4-16. If Arken can get the supply chain squared away, that would likely be a good option as well

 

[G-Dog]

I have a couple gen 1 PST vortex scopes. I like vortex, a lot. The PST are good, I like them at their price point but wish the glass was better if I could improve one thing. I hear they did upgrade optical quality with the gen 2, but have no first hand experience.

I have retail first hand experience with Nikon scopes and binos, and will NEVER ever own Nikon. A horrible customer experience, a horrible vendor experience and worthless warranty. They had a habit of shipping defective merchandise and refusing to replace brand new in the box items.

 

[beetroot]

Dude, I’m all for gen II, but I can get any of these for about $420-440. Not really looking to hit $650 or better I don’t think, but what makes the gen II that much nicer. I may take a second look. And let me know best place to find one on the low. Haha.
seriously though I appreciate the input.

The Gen 2 PST is nicer in every way from the Gen 1 and by a considerable margin.

Illumination is better, turrets are better, glass is better (better resolution/colour/clarity), FOV is better, most importantly the eyebox/usability of the scope is greatly improved.
The Gen 1 PST and HST/HS products require you to have absolutely perfect position behind the scope to get any sight picture, even then in less than ideal lighting or a funky shooting position it can feel like it's impossible to get a reliable sight picture.
I had a HST that I used to get eye strain from a 30 minute range session.

The Gen 2 is just a 10 times better and better than any other scope I've used under $1000.

 

[Mxridr]

Love how people ask for advise on these forums and still want to the opposite. Koshkin is very knowledgeable listen to him. I do.

 

[BELLYCRAWL]

There are a lot of great options and unique times, but this topic is Koshkin's world.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

If it absolutely has to be one of those three...get the sig. Don't get the gen 1 pst. If you're going to blow your budget on any one piece of gear, it should be the scope.

 

[Someone]

Love how people ask for advise on these forums and still want to the opposite. Koshkin is very knowledgeable listen to him. I do.

I don’t believe I said I’d do the opposite. I took what was said and asked for reasoning is all. And being new to the forum it’s not like I know who the go to authority is.
The gen 2 is also twice the price of any of these, at least when buying new. I also stated in the original post that I knew these were all “budget scopes”. So I am taking the input seriously, but need to be realistic. I like the buy once, cry once way of thinking, but will likely only take this rifle out 10-12 times a year.

If it absolutely has to be one of those three...get the sig. Don't get the gen 1 pst. If you're going to blow your budget on any one piece of gear, it should be the scope.

I appreciate the input, but if it did not have to be one of these 3 what would you recommend sub $500? I understand your point in blowing budget on optic but want to be true with myself on the use this will actually see. I’d like to eventually work to 1000 yards, but have never shot past 120 so far. In my area it’s fairly limited where to shoot long range. I’m not totally opposed to used or waiting, injustice pretty amped and would love to be at the range this weekend if possible.

The Gen 2 PST is nicer in every way from the Gen 1 and by a considerable margin.

Illumination is better, turrets are better, glass is better (better resolution/colour/clarity), FOV is better, most importantly the eyebox/usability of the scope is greatly improved.
The Gen 1 PST and HST/HS products require you to have absolutely perfect position behind the scope to get any sight picture, even then in less than ideal lighting or a funky shooting position it can feel like it's impossible to get a reliable sight picture.
I had a HST that I used to get eye strain from a 30 minute range session.

The Gen 2 is just a 10 times better and better than any other scope I've used under $1000.

This is useful, thank you. Forgiving eye box/eye relief would be good to have.

 

[fdkay]

I don’t believe I said I’d do the opposite. I took what was said and asked for reasoning is all. And being new to the forum it’s not like I know who the go to authority is.
The gen 2 is also twice the price of any of these, at least when buying new. I also stated in the original post that I knew these were all “budget scopes”. So I am taking the input seriously, but need to be realistic. I like the buy once, cry once way of thinking, but will likely only take this rifle out 10-12 times a year.

I appreciate the input, but if it did not have to be one of these 3 what would you recommend sub $500? I understand your point in blowing budget on optic but want to be true with myself on the use this will actually see. I’d like to eventually work to 1000 yards, but have never shot past 120 so far. In my area it’s fairly limited where to shoot long range. I’m not totally opposed to used or waiting, injustice pretty amped and would love to be at the range this weekend if possible.

This is useful, thank you. Forgiving eye box/eye relief would be good to have.

What is the purpose of this rifle/scope combo?
Is it destined for the range, shooting paper and steel, or is for hunting?
If it is a range gun, then it is almost impossible to beat the SWFA 10x or 12x fixed power SS scope.
Glass is ho-hum, but they track, they are very robust, they hold their value, they are capable of withstanding heavy recoil.
get the mil/mil variety. 300 bucks brand new, leaves you room for a good set of rings and still come in under your budget.
Other than that, the aforementioned 4-16 Athlon. which is just over budget but well worth it.
Check with https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/members/gr8fuldoug.7151/

 

[Someone]

What is the purpose of this rifle/scope combo?
Is it destined for the range, shooting paper and steel, or is for hunting?
If it is a range gun, then it is almost impossible to beat the SWFA 10x or 12x fixed power SS scope.
Glass is ho-hum, but they track, they are very robust, they hold their value, they are capable of withstanding heavy recoil.
get the mil/mil variety. 300 bucks brand new, leaves you room for a good set of rings and still come in under your budget.
Other than that, the aforementioned 4-16 Athlon. which is just over budget but well worth it.
Check with https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/members/gr8fuldoug.7151/

I will check those out. Thank you. The main purpose will be range, and hopefully work out to distance. I have my grandfathers old deer rifle, but this may still see some hunting action. Around here that would be 100yards and under. Usually my magnification hunting is 5-7 on my deer rifle, old Remington 721 in 30.06. Definitely not opposed to fixed power assuming it’s not too much power.

 

[eastexsteve]

Hi guys,
I’ll just start with yes I am new here, but I have been reading for a while now. I have used search and it has helped me narrow my choice of optic to three.
1)Nikon black FX1000 4-16x50(least of my 3 favorites because on every one I look through I have to adjust the eyepiece all the way to the right to focus)
2)vortex viper pst gen 1 4-16x50
3)sig tango4 4-16x44

I have a Nikon FX1000 4-16x50 on a Savage 110 Tactical. I've had it for two years now. It's definitely not a closet queen, and spent most of its time bouncing around in the back floorboard of my truck. It's my go to hog and coyote gun. Last time I check it for accuracy, it was still zeroed where I put it. I've made MANY real world 600+ yard shots with it bagged over the hood or bed of my truck. I've since remounted it on my AR-10 build, and replaced it with a Steiner P4Xi 4-16x56 on the Savage. It was just under $1,000. You might want to save up a bit and go that direction. The glass on the one I got was excellent, and the scope is American made. Though, the glass on my Nikon is pretty good.

 

[rangerlong]

Every thread with a budget goes the same way.
What’s the best gear for $400?
$600 gear.
What’s the best gear for $600?
$1000 gear.

They’re not wrong, the more expensive scopes are better. But you can keep waiting forever for the next best thing.
If the pst gen 1 gets you to the range today, go shoot.

 

[JeremyV]

So aside from moving the illumination dial and changing the zero stop, what makes the gen 2 so much better?

As others have said pretty much everything is better about the pst gen2

For a long time I used cheap glass and shot out to 800 and 900 yards! It can be done and it can be a lot of fun!! You don’t need great glass or reliable tracking to shoot out past 1000 yards and anyone that tells you that you have to get a $2,000 optic has little experience actually shooting long range.

However..... spending money on quality glass is going to change a ton of things. Better eye box makes it easer to get behind the rifle and get a good sight picture. This in turn makes it easer to stay in the scope to spot your own shots... this is a huge deal if you don’t have a spotter.

If your shooting say 700 yards and you have a 10mph wind your shooting a 6.5 creed you get say about 26” of bullet drift. Let’s say your in the mountains and shooting across a canyon you can’t see the wind in the middle so just take a guess. Let’s say the wind happens to switch directions out in the middle so your hold is now way off. Without a spotter or decent glass it’s going to be very frustrating trying to spot that bullet impact..

Also your elevation adjustments may not be correct so you need to spot your miss to get on target there as well...

So your first round hit percentage will go way up with better quality optics and the ease at spotting and correcting will go way up. Target Acquisition will be much easier with the bigger field of view and higher resolution image

In the real world things you will notice

Budget scope.
After elevation or windage Adjustment it might take a few shots for everything to settle in. The amount you dialed might not be the amount the scope actually moved. The eye box is small and requires you to be in the exact right spot to get a clean sight picture.
Shooting into the sun can be hard to impossible with the target washing out due to poor optical design and coatings.

I’m definitely not going to tell you what you need to buy cause I don’t know what’s important to you and how long it would take you to save for a nicer optic.....

what I do know is that it’s much more enjoyable for me to grab my rifle dial 10moa know it moved exactly 10moa sling a bullet at the 8” steel at 500 watch my bullet impact note if I made the correct wind call and make an adjustment if needed then engage the 2 inch steel at 500.. my budget optics won’t let me do that....

 

[beetroot]

Every thread with a budget goes the same way.
What’s the best gear for $400?
$600 gear.
What’s the best gear for $600?
$1000 gear.

They’re not wrong, the more expensive scopes are better. But you can keep waiting forever for the next best thing.
If the pst gen 1 gets you to the range today, go shoot.

You are correct in your assessment of advice here but you missed an import point.
Usually guys make this recommendation on buying a used scope.
With warranties in the industry being so good and so many people buying and selling gear buying 2nd hand is almost always the best way to go, especially at the lower end of the price bracket. With so many good vendors on snipershide those $1000 scopes are more like $800 new and you can do even better in the buy/sell pages.

Another thing worth noting is up every extra $100 you spend can make a big difference up to $1000, it's almost always best to spend as much as you can.
After $1000 the waters get a little muddied, and it's more like $300ish to get a decent improvement.

Also not the Gen 2 PST was mentioned as the OP asked what the difference was between the two.

 

[Someone]

Every thread with a budget goes the same way.
What’s the best gear for $400?
$600 gear.
What’s the best gear for $600?
$1000 gear.

They’re not wrong, the more expensive scopes are better. But you can keep waiting forever for the next best thing.
If the pst gen 1 gets you to the range today, go shoot.

Haha. This is true. I am a mechanic and it’s goes this way with cars too. People told me I needed a 3/4 ton diesel to pull horses 5-6 times a year. Our trailer fully loaded is around 6500 lbs. Granted when I had my f250 gas motor(5.4, was a pig) it was very stable coming down the mountains, but my ram 1500 slt still pulls what I need awesome. It’s what works for me. I don’t take offense to someone attempting to show me what’s better for a little more, but with the slowdown at the shop the budget isn’t wide open either.
As @beetroot said though guys did recommend the used market. I’m just like a kid at Xmas right now ready to hit the range, lol.

 

[rangerlong]

You are correct in your assessment of advice here but you missed an import point.
Usually guys make this recommendation on buying a used scope.
With warranties in the industry being so good and so many people buying and selling gear buying 2nd hand is almost always the best way to go, especially at the lower end of the price bracket. With so many good vendors on snipershide those $1000 scopes are more like $800 new and you can do even better in the buy/sell pages.

Another thing worth noting is up every extra $100 you spend can make a big difference up to $1000, it's almost always best to spend as much as you can.
After $1000 the waters get a little muddied, and it's more like $300ish to get a decent improvement.

Also not the Gen 2 PST was mentioned as the OP asked what the difference was between the two.

Like I said, I agree on the assessment of the scopes, and the advice above is not bad, and if one of you was offering op a gen ii for $500 he should stretch the budget, but availability in the PX or on the used market is not guaranteed in any timeframe.
I think a $500 pst ii will be gone from the px pretty quick.

How long should OP wait for more money, or to find the right deal?
Only he can answer that.

 

[fdkay]

Hi guys,
I’ll just start with yes I am new here, but I have been reading for a while now. I have used search and it has helped me narrow my choice of optic to three.
1)Nikon black FX1000 4-16x50(least of my 3 favorites because on every one I look through I have to adjust the eyepiece all the way to the right to focus)
2)vortex viper pst gen 1 4-16x50
3)sig tango4 4-16x44

All of these fit a sub $500 budget currently. Going on a new savage 110 tact .308.
I really like what I am reading on the tango, but not many videos on YouTube on the newer version. One video I found says no more revolution counter on elevation turret and no more “lockdown” on elevation turret. I like the dev-l MRAD reticle.
I looked at the Diamondback 4-16 for ffp at an affordable price but wasn’t super impressed(and yes I know all are budget scopes), but looking at roughly $100 more than the Diamondback I can get quite a bit more scope it seems.
Help a brother out, please!

This japanese made scope is far better than any of the ones listed. The reticle is rather plain, and it lacks a zero stop. It makes up for it in robust quality with very good glass and they track:

Weaver Tactical Rifle Scope - 3-15X50mm 30mm SF Illum FFP EMDR Reticle 33.9-6.8' FOV 3.98" ER Black Matte

Weaver is proud to offer rugged riflescopes designed specifically for tactical applications. As part of the Super Slam™ series, these tactical scopes are manufactured to the strictest tolerances in order to perform in the harshest environments. Powerful 5x magnification Fully multi-coated...

www.natchezss.com

 

[Someone]

This japanese made scope is far better than any of the ones listed. The reticle is rather plain, and it lacks a zero stop. It makes up for it in robust quality with very good glass and they track:

Weaver Tactical Rifle Scope - 3-15X50mm 30mm SF Illum FFP EMDR Reticle 33.9-6.8' FOV 3.98" ER Black Matte

Weaver is proud to offer rugged riflescopes designed specifically for tactical applications. As part of the Super Slam™ series, these tactical scopes are manufactured to the strictest tolerances in order to perform in the harshest environments. Powerful 5x magnification Fully multi-coated...

www.natchezss.com

Looks good, but considering I’d rarely be more than around 10-12 power and I’d like the reticle to be usable, do you have any other recommendations similar but with ffp?

 

[fdkay]

Looks good, but considering I’d rarely be more than around 10-12 power and I’d like the reticle to be usable, do you have any other recommendations similar but with ffp?

it is FFP and the reticle is very usable, it is just a slight variation of the standard mil-dot.
With a scope of this quality, you'll be using the 15x because you can.

 

[Tallahassee]

I have the Vortex viper gen 1 on my Savage 10. Bought it on sale from Cabelas about four years ago, I think. Does the job well enough, used it out to 600 yards often. If that's what you can afford/want, it will serve you well. Still have the Savage and Vortex, my favorite range beater. I have know idea how it shoots so well.

 

[Someone]

it is FFP and the reticle is very usable, it is just a slight variation of the standard mil-dot.
With a scope of this quality, you'll be using the 15x because you can.

Dang, my bad I saw the SF in the title and read sfp rather than side focus. I’m going to look more into that one.
Guys gotta remember with my limited scope usage/knowledge, I’m going from what I have read/heard/seen locally and through youtube(which I know many are shilling on that platform).

 

[OG10]

@fdkay pointed out a really good scope that fits your budget, and is often overlooked. I have one on a 6cm before that it was on a 308 not heavy recoil rifles but the scope tracks and has not let me down.it checks alot of boxes for me not too heavy, 3x15, tracks, good useable glass, budget friendly, have not found any negative rewiews online when I purchased about 4 years ago.

 

[koshkin]

Weaver was a good scope, but since Weaver optics have been discontinued, I am not sure how future support will go. If your scope breaks and needs replacement, you have to rely on Bushnell's judgement on what is the equivalent model in their line-up.



ILya

 

[OG10]

That I did not know, I have used Weaver customer service before on a scope mount that I lost the screws to they shipped me new screws no questions asked, on their dime.I can only hope if I have a problem Bushnell will do the right thing.

 

[thehun]

I’d find a used SWFA or an older Bushnell Elite.
Heck. Some outlets had Accupower optics on sale for near $500.

 

[BaconBits]

As long as it tracks! Have fun man. My 110 tactical does .25" groups at 100yds with hand loads.

(38.5gr IMR-4064, CCI primers, Federal Brass, 175gr smk)

 

[Someone]

As long as it tracks! Have fun man. My 110 tactical does .25" groups at 100yds with hand loads.

(38.5gr IMR-4064, CCI primers, Federal Brass, 175gr smk)

Yea man. Can’t wait to see what it’ll do. Anniversary present from my wife(and she’s not into guns at all, nothing against them just not into them). Thinking of running a red field 3-9 off my hunting rifle for now until I find a deal on something I really like. The sig tango4 has not been ruled out, the Nikon has, the viper is close to out.