Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

[kraythe]

I have been working on some precision rounds for my Remington 700 XCR tactical long range and I have been thinking of upgrading my dies because the lee dies I am using seem to lack precision and consistency.

What I was wondering is whether you prefer to resize only the neck and retain the fire formed dimensions of the case or whether you prefer full length resizing of the case.

The neck only resizing seems to make some sense to me as the case has fire formed to perfectly suit the chamber of the rifle. It seems it would increase accuracy (as energy wouldn't be used to expand the case to fit) and the headspace would be, of course, absolutely perfect.

Is there an argument for full length resizing other than if you were using the cases in various weapons? If I keep my cases only for the single rifle, it doesn't seem to make sense.

Any input is appreciated.

Also what dies do you prefer for precision adjustment for precision reloading. Id love a die with micrometer level adjustment knobs.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

In the google seach field, type:

site:snipershide.com neck sizing full length sizing

And read

I will give you the benefit of the doubt - that you didn't post this question without searching first. The message board's search engine isn't very good, but google's is excellent.

Please use it and learn. There is MUCH to be learned here.

Welcome!

 

[kraythe]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

Well I searched a good amount on this site.

Cranky much?

 

[Mcarnell82]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

After neck sizing 3 or 4 times you may need to bump the shoulder back in order to chamber the round. If funds allow it I would get the redding competition bushing die set. The body die is included in the set. They are a little on the expensive side but I really like them.

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

seriously: at your stage,the best upgrading,before any buy, is to order,read,read again,understand (even if only partially,at first) "Reloading for Competition".author Glenn Zediker_ After that,reconsider you reloading task & equipement and,only if necessary,buy the best you can afford
enjoy !

 

[aloreman]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

Great book on the subject^ however it is a hard read. Its written like a man who is rambling on to himself. Forces you to read everything over a few times

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

<span style="font-style: italic">"I have been thinking of upgrading my dies because the lee dies I am using seem to lack precision and consistency. .... Any input is appreciated."</span>

Well, my first input would be to ask a question; "Where/why/how do you think your present dies "lack precision and consistancy"? Consistancy comes from consistancy of the user because the dies don't change between rounds. And "seem to lack precision" doesn't tell us much...??

<span style="font-style: italic">"What I was wondering is whether you prefer to resize only the neck .." </span>

Good question. Unhappily, there is no certain answer. Many of us get better accuracy by properly FL sizing. Neck sizing is an option that has to be tested by each of us but it usually makes little or no noticable difference for most of us.

<span style="font-style: italic">"...energy wouldn't be used to expand the case to fit) and the headspace would be, of course, absolutely perfect."</span>

That's a common web myth, there is plenty of energy to fully expand cases and the fit will be absolutely perfect when it happens.


<span style="font-style: italic">"Is there an argument for full length resizing"</span>

Sierra thinks so. They claim to shoot one hole groups doing just that during bullet testing on their range.

<span style="font-style: italic">"If I keep my cases only for the single rifle, it doesn't seem to make sense."</span>

If you load full pressure charges FL sizing will make sense after a few cycles when your ammo gets quite hard to chamber. Hard chambering stresses most actions in weird ways that can degrade accuracy.

<span style="font-style: italic">"Also what dies do you prefer for precision adjustment for precision reloading."</span>

Threaded dies come in two grades. Forster and Redding are tied for first place, everyone else is closely tied for second place. And there isn't a massive average difference between them in what most shooters/reloaders can do with any of them. High quality ammo comes from skill, not the brand of your dies.

"Id love a die with micrometer level adjustment knobs."

If you mean a mic seating head, they really are neet, go for it. But you should understand up front that such heads are only user aids, they don't to a thing for the quality of ammo any of them can produce.


<span style="font-weight: bold">"Reloading for Competition".author Glenn Zediker_</span>

Glenn's a great shooter, knowledgable too, and I suspect he's a nice guy. But he's also a college professor, meaning he loves the sound of his own chatty voice! There is a kernel or two of useful information on most paqes but the reader has to sift through a lot of chaff to find it. I wonder how many new guys will know what's wheat and what's chaff.

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

I agree :"...Forces you to read everything over a few times"_ for any greenhorn (includin me, as eternal greenhorn)that's a bonus, and I think it's the REAL good trick of the book_

 

[Mike Sobr]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

Keep it simple and just get a Redding Type-S full length bushing die that lets you resize the case and the neck while maintaining case alignment and concentricity. Your brass grows each time you shoot it so you may as well keep it from expanding so big it won't chamber any more by resizing it each time you shoot it and maintain consistency.

It will allow you to shoot groups as small as you can hold for wind and in a few years if your 500 yard groups shrink to under a couple inches then it may be time to have Harrells or Neil Jones make you a custom die but until then you won't be handicapped by quality Redding dies and there are a million more important things to fret over that really will screw up your groups. Remember it's not paranoia if they really are after you.....Lol.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

Buy the Redding Type "S" FL die and comp seater. You'll need the bushing sized to your brass. FL everything but only for a .001" to .002" max shoulder bump. When I shot Score BR I FL sized after each shot, accuracy was there.

I still FL after each shot as do 90%+ of the shooters. Quality dies are a must. IMHO, Redding is at the top.

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

...on my case,tested all the chaff first,of course_

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

I will second what Turbo said, and I agree fully with what Fuzzyballs has told you. I have been handloading for a very long time and I have tried both ways, and now, do not own any neck dies and never plan to own anymore.

Redding dies are "like butta". I have owned a few sets of Forresters and they are very nice but I go out of my way to buy Redding. I don't have any bushing dies, but I am a consumate annealer and do not feel the need for anything beyond the standard FL die. Do I own other dies? Sure but not for a precision rifle or pistol and I have a few of each. I usually tell people to buy what they can afford but I would not scrimp on dies. Simplicity and quality is the best option.
The micrometer seaters are nice to have but I don't find much need for them beyond my 223 die. I would call them an expensive convenience.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

You are getting good advice. Good luck. BB

 

[Bob 964]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

This is one of my favorite Happy Hour discussion topics. One sees a lot of differing opinions on this and other sites, and what works best for one shooter may not work best for another.

There doesn't appear to be a lot of "scientific" study on this issue. This surprises me, since it should be fairly simple to load two identical sets of cartridges, the only difference being one set is neck sized and the other full sized, shoot them, and compare the results.

I did find one such study, entitled "Cartridge Reloading Accuracy Comparison: Case Neck vs. Full Length Resizing", by Andrew Willis. Mr. Willis concluded that loads that had been neck sized and the flash hole deburred were 31%-35% more accurate. I am enclosing a link to the study for anyone who is interested.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/neck_vs_full_resizing.htm

One study isn't going to resolve this debate, so... let the debate continue.

 

[Cacciatore]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

I think the FL Bushing dies are a great advantage. They allow you to achieve precise neck tension with out the use of a expander.

Glen's book is more of a text book than a reading book. Look up what you want to know and move on.

 

[725franky]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

Here's my thoughts on the subject:

When I first started loading I was lead to believe that NS was THE way to go because you are maintaining brass that is on average a "better fit" (subjective) to your chamber.
Now, while that is true, you still must FLS the brass periodically; which will then add an un-normal variable to your shooting. Or, you are left with really needing to "fire-form" your brass after each FLS.
Realizing that lead me to thinking about how consistent FLS really is; each and every time the brass is brought back to the same dimensions (not including slight spring-back variations caused be material hardness variations), without regard to the number of times it has be re-utilized.


I am not a reloading GURU and this is just how I've come to view this issue. Everyone has their own slight twist to how it all works out and the number of variables with reloading are so numerous they are almost immeasurable; which is how we end up with individuals swearing by their chosen method, from both sides of the fence...

-Frank

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

Yeah the Willis clan can't even agree on the subject:
http://www.larrywillis.com/resizing.html

Neck sizing has been around since the 50's in benchrest, and likely before. Many of the top long range BR shooters full length size their cases. That is really all I need to know on the subject, beyond my own extensive experience.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

I don't think it hurts to bump the shoulder in a FL die, nor do I have a problem with bushing dies or neck sizing, or things like chamber seaters. I think it's important to know why you are doing it, rather than doing it because everybody on the Hide says so. As you can see, they all don't agree on anything, so you can either count the responses, (majority rules) or simply find what works for you. To further blur the facts, it happens that I do all of the above, but I know why I am doing it. Different firearms will need a different solution.

I can offer a personal opinion about this little gem:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Mr. Willis concluded that loads that had been neck sized and the flash hole deburred were 31%-35% more accurate.</div></div>
Hardly, CASE CLOSED, this is caca. BB

 

[Enough Said]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

Redding Competition Dies

+1

Check out the reloading video by Defensive Edge. I got a couple great improvements from that video.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

"... it should be fairly simple to load two identical sets of cartridges, the only difference being one set is neck sized and the other full sized, shoot them, and compare the results."

It has been done, many times. Results vary but other people read the results and are determined to convience the world that their view of the question is the only one. The arguments get phunny at times!

You want to know if neck sizing will work better for YOU? Then YOU need to test it.

 

[Paladin2147]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

If you are not concerned if your ammo will not always chambering then neck size. If you want reliable ammo - always, full length resize. I doubt you will see any difference between the two on a target face. Nore will you see any real difference in case life unless your rifle is headspaced long and even then you can adjust that out. Additionally, hard chambering brass puts considerable wear on the back side of the bolt locking lugs - so lube that area of the bolt. Me I full length size always. Simple stuff.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

One thing you can count on, techniques in handloading EVOLVE. Things are done today on a routine basis that were (quite literally) unheard of, twenty, thirty years ago. And, some things get reinvented. Attention to detail is not a waste of time, which is not to say that some things are a waste of time. But, if it makes you feel good, it is not wasted effort. If that sounds like double talk, maybe it is, but everybody, in their pursuit of perfection, has a system, and a comfort zone. BB

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

Well there you have it. Opinions are like aholes, everybody has one. Seriously, just give ns a try. Ns doesn't make every rifle a tack driver, but it can assist sometimes. Dont get too concerned about pressure unless you load hot. Most accurate rds aren't the hottest rds. I pretty well capitalized on fl sizing, then neck sizing up to 3 times, then start the cycle over again...for the same bolt rifle. Fl for interchangability. Good smooth consistent reloading accounts for good accuracy. Not expensive equipment. Good luck and have fun.

 

[PRKmachinist]

Re: Neck Resizing Only vs Full Length Resizing?

Should I sell the Hornady .300WM dies I was given as a present and buy the Redding S dies? My rifle is capable of sub .5 MOA with BHA and FGMM ammo, I would assume that the Hornady stuff is capable of doing as good a job as out of the box match ammo?