Neck sizer or FL sizer

[jordanh]

Ive been researching this a lot and read the brass prep topic above, but am still a bit foggy on one issue. I purchased 200 rnds of new brass and all have been fire formed in my chamber. I am now looking to start loading up new lots with the fire formed brass. I have read that you want to bump the datum of the brass .003" back from your specific chambers headspace. All that I got..

What I am confused with is what die I should be using to do this. Is bumping the shoulder back, and sizing the neck done with the same die? I was specifically looking at the rcbs gold medal match neck sizing bushing die, this is a .308, BTW.

Will I be able to set this die up to bump that shoulder back, or do I need to get the FL bushing die, and just set the lock ring up high enough to just bump the shoulder back?

 

[jordanh]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

After more reading this morning it seems the ideal die that I need is a Forster bump die, problem is, anyone know where one is in stock?

I see that with the rcbs FL bushing die you can bump the sholder back by removing the neck bushing and adjust the die upwards.

So to achieve the same results of the Forster I would need to buy a rcbs neck sizer bushing die to size my necks, then buy a FL bushing die, remove bushing, and use that to bump my shoulder back?


I am assuming it is not possible to adjust the full length bushing die up far enough to properly size just the neck/shoulder, and not the body?

 

[ksthomas]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

jordanh,

You didn't mention what type of rifle you were loading for, and that's a pretty important consideration here. The .003" figure you mention is more than you'll beed for a bolt gun, and less than you'll want for a gas gun. As I said, important disticntion here.

As to your sizing question, my advice would be to use a Full Length Die, and forget about Neck Sizing altogether. Using a chamber gage to make sure that you're not pushing the shoulder back beyond what it needs will still yield excellent case life and you won't see any difference in accuracy. You'll also avoid a lot of problems that will inevitably arise with Neck Sizing. Bushing dies are good choices, just to ensure that you're not working the case necks any more than you actually need to, which will also help give better case life. I haven't used the RCBS bushing dies, but the Forster's are first rate.

 

[jordanh]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

It is a Remington 700 action in .308. I am not stuck on rcbs by any means, it's just more of what I am familiar with, and have readily available at stores in my area.

So With a full length bushing die am I able to set it adjusted up in my press to size the neck and bump the shoulder back .003" versus actually 'full length' sizing the brass like its intended for?


It seems to me that the Forster bump die is what I really need for my needs ( wants?). I suppose the FL die is the way to go though once the day comes that I need to size down the body of the brass.

Am I sounding on track here, or am I way off? I have read a boat load of info on precision reloading in the last few days so my minds a bit boggled on which sizing die setup is the way to go for this scenario.

 

[BirdEyes]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

I'll second Kevin's advice. Following the full length die manufacturer's generic instructions has done more to create a market for neck sizing dies and expensive bushings than anything else. A properly adjusted FL sizing die in my opinion will do a better overall job in the long run than a NO die or combinations of NO and Body dies for most shooters. There are exceptions to this in cases like same mfg. lot of brass with consistent necks that have been turned to the same dimension shot in the same rifle with usage counts kept, etc. If you are set on neck sizing, FL bushing dies are a good compromise.

 

[jordanh]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

So I can indeed set up a FL sizing die to only bump back the shoulder .003? I just need to adjust it down a little at a time until I achieve this instead of following the mfg instruction to set it so the press 'cams' over, correct?

When doing this, is this doing the exact same thing as the Forster bump die, or is it sizing the body?

Could you guys clear up my other confusion? When sizing with a basic FL sizing die the brass is necked down, and the expander ball being pulled back through the neck is what sizes it... And then on a bushing die the different bushings are actually what sizing the neck without use of A expander ball?



I am looking to start in on f-t/r shooting this spring, so I am trying to get everything I need in order now. I truly do need much much much moren trigger time. I would just like to do what I can at the reload bench to be confident at the range.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jordanh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When doing this... is it sizing the body?</div></div>
Yes, but don't assume that's a negative thing. Further, it doesn't reduce the circumfrence (in turn reducing volume) as much as moving the shoulder does.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When sizing with a basic FL sizing die the brass is necked down, and the expander ball being pulled back through the neck is what sizes it... And then on a bushing die the different bushings are actually what sizing the neck without use of A expander ball?</div></div>
It can go both ways. Most guys comfortable with their bushing selections remove the expander ball so that the initial sizing from the bushing is the proper dimension they're after. You can still keep the ball in there, but your bushing selection will have less (to nothing) to do with the final neck dimension, but you still have more control than a standard FL die. Expander balls are also major contributors to stretching brass.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking to start in on f-t/r shooting this spring</div></div>
Then FL size definitely. Any possible/theoretical gains in accuracy from not sizing the body of the brass will be offset by the challenging environment and human element required to score well; and one failure to feed from brass that could use more clearance will do more to harm your score than the possible/theoretical difference as seen during a benchrest match, for example.


[/quote]

 

[jordanh]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Then FL size definitely. Any possible/theoretical gains in accuracy from not sizing the body of the brass will be offset by the challenging environment and human element required to score well; and one failure to feed from brass that could use more clearance will do more to harm your score than the possible/theoretical difference as seen during a benchrest match, for example.</div></div>

This comment was fairly eye opening to me, and makes perfect sense. I need to spend more time shooting than nit picking these little things.

Now, when you refer to FL sizing, are you talking sizing with the press camming over, or Bumping the shoulder back a few thousands using a FL die?


I think a FL bushing die will fit the bill for what Id like.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

After buying a full set of Redding S bushing dies using them for a while, I decided to do a little experiment. I bought a Redding 308 body die and a Lee collet N/O die.

The ammo loaded with the body die and the Lee collet die shot as well as the S bushing ammo. If I hadn't bought all of the S bushings, the body die and the Lee collet die would be all I needed, F/L ,shoulder bump after every 3-4 N/O collet sizings. It works fine. This another alternative If you haven't bought dies yet and it's not a big cash outlay. Works great for a bolt gun. I stuck with the S bushings since I also load for a gas gun and need a little more neck tension at times.

Just another alternative.

 

[Twitch2120]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

if you are shooting open F class then i can see investing hours in case prep. shooting a stock remmy like me, load and shoot. the chamber is so loose you wont see much benefit from neck turning, pocket reaming, hole deburring etc. i measured my throat so i know my max and run with it. your gun is capable of sub MOA, playing with powder and seating depth will get your bullets capable of sub MOA. only pulling the trigger will get YOU sub MOA.

 

[Drgonzo_1981]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

Twitch2120 is right, being able to pull correctly is the majority of the game. Spending days on measuring every case dimension and grain of powder is important for those F-class boys. Not knocking it, takes great knowledge and superb basic and advanced skills. It is just a different animal from what you want to do. Making sure your ammo is loaded as consistently as possible is important, knowing how it shoots and where it is going to impact- from behind the rifle- is more important.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

"...when you refer to FL sizing, are you talking sizing with the press camming over, or Bumping the shoulder back a few thousands using a FL die?"

"Camming over" has no meaning, properly adjusting the die does.

 

[hengehold]

Re: Neck sizer or FL sizer

Unless u are shooting benchrest, use a Full length bushing die and bump the shoulder back .003 at the same time that you resize the neck.