Neck Turning: How Often?

[mckchome]

I just added neck turning + Sinclair expander mandrel to my reloading process. I removed the expander ball from my full length sizing die. But I can't seem to find an answer to this question: How often should I be turning the necks? Once? After every firing? Every other firing? Thanks in advance.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I just added neck turning + Sinclair expander mandrel to my reloading process. I removed the expander ball from my full length sizing die. But I can't seem to find an answer to this question: How often should I be turning the necks? Once? After every firing? Every other firing? Thanks in advance.

Once, done right anyways.....

 

[Threadcutter308]

Once, done right anyways.....

Caution........the “buttons” that go into neck sizing die are tapered on the ID. If you are going to turn fired/neck resized brass (you shouldn’t, but if you are), make sure the smaller diameter of the button goes into the neck sizing die first/is on the bottom. Actually, just turn new brass once and don’t ever turn it again, it causes many more problems than it solves.

 

[spife7980]

If you turn your necks I would go to a bushing die and then skip expanding altogether. Turned necks are even so there are no inconsistencies to force outwards via expanding so what’s the point of expanding? Select the bushing that’s the exact size you want the cases to end up and be done with it.

If you turn your necks with an angeled cutter to match the shoulder and turn into the shoulder just a tad you should never need to turn them again.
If you go with a 90 degree cutter then when your shoulder material migrates into the neck it would be thicker than the rest of your necks, that could require more turning to remove that “donut” of migrated shoulder material.

 

[Rimfiremike]

Turn once and be done. As said above, use an angled cutter to match the angle of your shoulder.
I have the PMA neck turner with matching cutter angles for all my different case angles.
The PMA is very well made... highly recommend it!

 

[lightman]

Neck turning is pretty much considered a one and done process. I turn for a couple of tight neck rifles and run a very minimum amount of clearance. Think benchers technique here. I will turn them again after every 5th firing and have found that they do grow. I'm running a much tighter neck wall clearance that most and turning them once will do for all but the benchrest shooter.

I've often argued against bushing dies for unturned necks. It seems to induce as many problems as it solves. I know all of the arguments for using premium brass but once you start neck turning you will see bigger differences than you will expect.

 

[b6graham]

why are you turning them in the first place?

 

[Rimfiremike]

@Rimfiremike that looks like an interesting product. Have you used any of their other equipment,? It looks like they have pretty good selection of prep tools.

The only PMA tool I have at the moment is the trimmer, but based on the quality of that tool and their excellent customer service, I wouldn't hesitate to buy something else from them if I needed it.

 

[SnkBit]

Why are you turning your necks?

If you can’t answer that then you shouldn’t be turning them at all.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Good advice. Based on what I'm reading so far, I'm think I'm going to follow your advice: only turn new brass, and once.

That's all I've ever done.......that's all that has ever been necessary.

 

[supercorndogs]

How often? Never.

 

[sandwarrior]

I am turning necks to achieve greater uniformity and consistency across my reloading components.

One time. Turning necks is mostly done to uniform brass to a tight neck. Once you've achieved the right fit between chamber and brass necks, you should load so that your brass stretches as little as possible. Meaning, use a "neck only" sizer.

Neck turning is very common in the benchrest world where tight neck chambers are the norm. In the long range/tactical world it's not so common. And, as many on here have said, you don't need to do it. Turning necks when you don't need to can be a detriment as you allow too much room between the case and chamber necks. You might be uniform, but if there is too much expansion room in the neck of the case, you'll lose accuracy, not gain it.

 

[Threadcutter308]

One time. Turning necks is mostly done to uniform brass to a tight neck. Once you've achieved the right fit between chamber and brass necks, you should load so that your brass stretches as little as possible. Meaning, use a "neck only" sizer.

Neck turning is very common in the benchrest world where tight neck chambers are the norm. In the long range/tactical world it's not so common. And, as many on here have said, you don't need to do it. Turning necks when you don't need to can be a detriment as you allow too much room between the case and chamber necks. You might be uniform, but if there is too much expansion room in the neck of the case, you'll lose accuracy, not gain it.

Plus, possibly strain the neck to the point of either premature wear, or failure.

 

[sandwarrior]

Threadcutter308,

Thank you for adding that. In all my wisdom I always forget to say important points. In any case, that is why it's best to start with known good brass. The uniformity is already there.

 

[bax]

... How often should I be turning the necks? Once? After every firing? Every other firing? ...

Based on the way you asked the first question, it sounds like this is your first foray into neck turning. If I am wrong about this, please excuse me. this is really long, sorry. To answer you immediate question: you turn once. Dreaded donuts are a separate issue.

When I started to shoot benchrest (this was not recently - we used dinosaurs fat for lube) we started with Lapua 220 brass and used a mandrel to expand the neck to fit .243 bullets. The necks were still pretty thick (about .011) so the loaded round neck diameter was maybe .265 (.243 + .011 + .011). Problem: at this time, 6PPC was a wildcat and the chambers on these guns are especially made with a small neck diameter - the necks were typically .262. So a .243 bullet, plus a neck that is .011 on each side is .265 and you cannot jam it into a .262 chamber. We turned the necks to about .0085 in order to get them to fit. So .243 + .0085 + .0085 = .260 or about .001 clearance all the way around. Not very much. But the small clearance let us shoot the gun and it helps to align the bullet to the centerline of the rifling and we though that helped with accuracy.

Please note, if we didn't turn the necks, we couldn't chamber a round so it not was a choice.

But there are problems. A grain of sand in the chamber neck would require us to force the round into the chamber and screw up that concentricity we were seeking. As the gun warms, the barrel expands and the chamber neck might get tighter. If the brass got long and the neck hit the lede, it would crimp the brass into the bullet and that can get exciting. In matches, we shot about 10 rounds, then reload in the shed and shoot the same 10 pieces of brass. If we didn't get all the crud off the neck - we had no clearance and high pressure and bullets went out of the group. Fortunately BR guns are really strong so these things did not cause issues but the assumptions are not necessarily true for a PRS shooter - especially the part about dirt.

If you don't need to turn necks to make clearance and if you are shooting decent brass that is more or less concentric, try shooting without turning. Here are some reasons:

You spend a bunch of time getting that brass prepped - if you turn necks you cannot put that brass back on. If you test and discover that turning was not helpful, you have to treat that brass special forever more or toss it.

Turning reduces the size of the loaded brass. If the brass fit before you turned it, you just increased the clearance. Think of this like you just had someone ream the neck on your chamber. If a tight neck is supposed to help with accuracy, you just did the opposite.

If you have brass that really needs to be turned - large variance from one side to the other - you might be better off to buying good brass rather than spend a lot of time trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and having to pay for the cutting and measuring tools to do it correctly.

I know how to turn brass. I have the tools and the time. I have some pretty good 300 win mag brass but the necks were pretty bad - roughly .012 to .015. I turned the necks to about .012. They shot a little better. Maybe. But I also have some that has .013 necks and .011 and .010. So every time I shoot, I have to measure all of the necks then use the right button to get the right neck tension. I am experimenting with an expander mandrel to control neck tension but even so, it is a pain in the tooties. I have some better brass and it shoots even if I don't turn the necks and it is a lot easier to hand load. I plan to buy good brass. If I cannot find any, I know what to do but I won't spend the time unless it really need to.

If you decide to turn necks, just do a few pieces - 10 or 20. Number every piece and shoot groups with it before and after. Try to talk yourself out of doing it. If you fail and neck turning looks like a good thing for you, you will have a solid basis to justify the time and cost. if you do talk yourself out of it, you will know that neck turning doesn't help YOU that much with THIS WEAPON and THIS BRASS.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Threadcutter308,

Thank you for adding that. In all my wisdom I always forget to say important points. In any case, that is why it's best to start with known good brass. The uniformity is already there.

Sure......I do the same thing all the time too.

I use Lapua brass exclusively. With the new “boutique” manufacturers coming on line, they might not be considered the king of the hill anymore. But, I have never had any problems with them and they have always been consistent, so I’m not looking to change.
I think I’ve only measured .0015” max neck thickness variation over the thousands of rounds I’ve used over the years. I only remove just enough material on the neck to make the thickness consistent all the way around. Once trimmed, the remaining variation is “usually” in the area of .0002”. People could argue that for .0015” variation to begin with, it’s not necessary to trim at all. My response would be that for some situations, they wouldn’t be wrong. However, for my situation, I am trying to reduce variations and errors to as small as possible. Neck thickness consistency is only one piece of a much bigger “system” puzzle. Again, reducing as many variables as possible “should” result in a more consistently accurate rifle “system”.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Based on the way you asked the first question, it sounds like this is your first foray into neck turning. If I am wrong about this, please excuse me. this is really long, sorry. To answer you immediate question: you turn once. Dreaded donuts are a separate issue.

When I started to shoot benchrest (this was not recently - we used dinosaurs fat for lube) we started with Lapua 220 brass and used a mandrel to expand the neck to fit .243 bullets. The necks were still pretty thick (about .011) so the loaded round neck diameter was maybe .265 (.243 + .011 + .011). Problem: at this time, 6PPC was a wildcat and the chambers on these guns are especially made with a small neck diameter - the necks were typically .262. So a .243 bullet, plus a neck that is .011 on each side is .265 and you cannot jam it into a .262 chamber. We turned the necks to about .0085 in order to get them to fit. So .243 + .0085 + .0085 = .260 or about .001 clearance all the way around. Not very much. But the small clearance let us shoot the gun and it helps to align the bullet to the centerline of the rifling and we though that helped with accuracy.

Please note, if we didn't turn the necks, we couldn't chamber a round so it not was a choice.

But there are problems. A grain of sand in the chamber neck would require us to force the round into the chamber and screw up that concentricity we were seeking. As the gun warms, the barrel expands and the chamber neck might get tighter. If the brass got long and the neck hit the lede, it would crimp the brass into the bullet and that can get exciting. In matches, we shot about 10 rounds, then reload in the shed and shoot the same 10 pieces of brass. If we didn't get all the crud off the neck - we had no clearance and high pressure and bullets went out of the group. Fortunately BR guns are really strong so these things did not cause issues but the assumptions are not necessarily true for a PRS shooter - especially the part about dirt.

If you don't need to turn necks to make clearance and if you are shooting decent brass that is more or less concentric, try shooting without turning. Here are some reasons:

You spend a bunch of time getting that brass prepped - if you turn necks you cannot put that brass back on. If you test and discover that turning was not helpful, you have to treat that brass special forever more or toss it.

Turning reduces the size of the loaded brass. If the brass fit before you turned it, you just increased the clearance. Think of this like you just had someone ream the neck on your chamber. If a tight neck is supposed to help with accuracy, you just did the opposite.

If you have brass that really needs to be turned - large variance from one side to the other - you might be better off to buying good brass rather than spend a lot of time trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and having to pay for the cutting and measuring tools to do it correctly.

I know how to turn brass. I have the tools and the time. I have some pretty good 300 win mag brass but the necks were pretty bad - roughly .012 to .015. I turned the necks to about .012. They shot a little better. Maybe. But I also have some that has .013 necks and .011 and .010. So every time I shoot, I have to measure all of the necks then use the right button to get the right neck tension. I am experimenting with an expander mandrel to control neck tension but even so, it is a pain in the tooties. I have some better brass and it shoots even if I don't turn the necks and it is a lot easier to hand load. I plan to buy good brass. If I cannot find any, I know what to do but I won't spend the time unless it really need to.

If you decide to turn necks, just do a few pieces - 10 or 20. Number every piece and shoot groups with it before and after. Try to talk yourself out of doing it. If you fail and neck turning looks like a good thing for you, you will have a solid basis to justify the time and cost. if you do talk yourself out of it, you will know that neck turning doesn't help YOU that much with THIS WEAPON and THIS BRASS.

Excellent advice, all the way around. Yes, start with good quality, new brass.

 

[mckchome]

Based on the way you asked the first question, it sounds like this is your first foray into neck turning. If I am wrong about this, please excuse me. this is really long, sorry. To answer you immediate question: you turn once. Dreaded donuts are a separate issue.

When I started to shoot benchrest (this was not recently - we used dinosaurs fat for lube) we started with Lapua 220 brass and used a mandrel to expand the neck to fit .243 bullets. The necks were still pretty thick (about .011) so the loaded round neck diameter was maybe .265 (.243 + .011 + .011). Problem: at this time, 6PPC was a wildcat and the chambers on these guns are especially made with a small neck diameter - the necks were typically .262. So a .243 bullet, plus a neck that is .011 on each side is .265 and you cannot jam it into a .262 chamber. We turned the necks to about .0085 in order to get them to fit. So .243 + .0085 + .0085 = .260 or about .001 clearance all the way around. Not very much. But the small clearance let us shoot the gun and it helps to align the bullet to the centerline of the rifling and we though that helped with accuracy.

Please note, if we didn't turn the necks, we couldn't chamber a round so it not was a choice.

But there are problems. A grain of sand in the chamber neck would require us to force the round into the chamber and screw up that concentricity we were seeking. As the gun warms, the barrel expands and the chamber neck might get tighter. If the brass got long and the neck hit the lede, it would crimp the brass into the bullet and that can get exciting. In matches, we shot about 10 rounds, then reload in the shed and shoot the same 10 pieces of brass. If we didn't get all the crud off the neck - we had no clearance and high pressure and bullets went out of the group. Fortunately BR guns are really strong so these things did not cause issues but the assumptions are not necessarily true for a PRS shooter - especially the part about dirt.

If you don't need to turn necks to make clearance and if you are shooting decent brass that is more or less concentric, try shooting without turning. Here are some reasons:

You spend a bunch of time getting that brass prepped - if you turn necks you cannot put that brass back on. If you test and discover that turning was not helpful, you have to treat that brass special forever more or toss it.

Turning reduces the size of the loaded brass. If the brass fit before you turned it, you just increased the clearance. Think of this like you just had someone ream the neck on your chamber. If a tight neck is supposed to help with accuracy, you just did the opposite.

If you have brass that really needs to be turned - large variance from one side to the other - you might be better off to buying good brass rather than spend a lot of time trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and having to pay for the cutting and measuring tools to do it correctly.

I know how to turn brass. I have the tools and the time. I have some pretty good 300 win mag brass but the necks were pretty bad - roughly .012 to .015. I turned the necks to about .012. They shot a little better. Maybe. But I also have some that has .013 necks and .011 and .010. So every time I shoot, I have to measure all of the necks then use the right button to get the right neck tension. I am experimenting with an expander mandrel to control neck tension but even so, it is a pain in the tooties. I have some better brass and it shoots even if I don't turn the necks and it is a lot easier to hand load. I plan to buy good brass. If I cannot find any, I know what to do but I won't spend the time unless it really need to.

If you decide to turn necks, just do a few pieces - 10 or 20. Number every piece and shoot groups with it before and after. Try to talk yourself out of doing it. If you fail and neck turning looks like a good thing for you, you will have a solid basis to justify the time and cost. if you do talk yourself out of it, you will know that neck turning doesn't help YOU that much with THIS WEAPON and THIS BRASS.

@bax : you mentioned that you are experimenting with an expander mandrel. Do you have anything to report on that front?

 

[b6graham]

@bax : you mentioned that you are experimenting with an expander mandrel. Do you have anything to report on that front?

more consistent neck tension. easy step.