Necking Down with Redding Die

[snipershidephil]

Hey guys, I'm brand new to reloading and I'm interested in converting 6.5 to 6mm creedmoor. I have a 6CM Redding competition die set and I'm wondering if I need any other dies/equipment to do this.

I've read that the body die doesn't touch the neck, however, is this true when starting with a larger neck? My hope is to run it through the body die to neck it down slightly, then use the neck die to finish it off. Thanks

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[ZiaHunter]

Just use a standard 6MM CM FL sizing die and you will be good to go. Body die does not size the neck. Necking down will increase neck wall thickness and best to remove the expander plug from the die prior to necking down. An expander mandrel can be used to open the neck up slightly. Due to the fact that the neck wall will increase in thickness, you will need to check the dimension of a seated case and compare against neck chamber diameter to make sure there is enough clearance. This is particularly the case with Lapua brass. My 6mm has a .275 neck and had to neck turn Lapua 6.5 CM cases which were necked down to 6MM.

 

[snipershidephil]

Just use a standard 6MM CM FL sizing die and you will be good to go.

Alright, cool. I'll probably pick up a Hornady Match FL die since it's cheap(er) and available for 6MM CM.

EDIT: Actually I was just able to find a standard Redding FL sizing die

This is particularly the case with Lapua brass. My 6mm has a .275 neck and had to neck turn Lapua 6.5 CM cases which were necked down to 6MM.

Alright, I'll have to get a neck turner too then since this is exactly what I want to do using lapua brass. Thanks for the help man.

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[spife7980]

Alright, I'll have to get a neck turner too then since this is exactly what I want to do using lapua brass. Thanks for the help man.

Do you know the specs on your chamber? If the neck has enough clearance you might not have to drop 300 bucks for turning equipment.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Do you know the specs on your chamber? If the neck has enough clearance you might not have to drop 300 bucks for turning equipment.

+1
A .275 will have clearance, what I have, and run Lapua,, one quick look at the soot line on your necks is all it takes for verification.

 

[snipershidephil]

If the neck has enough clearance you might not have to drop 300 bucks for turning equipment.

Oh nice, alright I'll check it out.

It probably doesn't matter but should I be getting a Type S Redding sizer or just stick with the standard?

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[spife7980]

Oh nice, alright I'll check it out.
It probably doesn't matter but should I be getting a Type S Redding sizer or just stick with the standard?

For necking down cases you will want a full length non bushing die IMO, some might disagree. The bushings dont neck down the case all of the way to the shoulder. The bushings actually float so there is a bit of play between the top of the shoulder and the neck that the bushing cant touch/size.

Now, Im not experienced enough with the creeds to know whether that would actually have an negative impact or not. I can see how it could leave a bit of the neck too large to chamber but I can also see how it could leave just enough to sort of create a false shoulder that might also be beneficial for case forming consistency like they do in a dasher (though thats blowing shoulders forward, not quite the same process of making with the creeds).

I would get Milos recommendations or someone who has actually run this process first hand for a bushing vs non bushing for necking down and then what hes running as a bushing if he is doing so.

The bushing die becomes helpful when you have your fired cases. A standard die could size the necks down anywhere from .004-.015 depending on the thickness of the brass used and the dies actual measurements. Generally they size too much and use an expander ball to open them back up to the proper size so that the internal measurements on the neck will be the same for all brands of brass . A bushing die allows you to only size them down just enough. .002-.003 smaller than a loaded rounds neck is a popular bushing size to run and then an expander ball (or seperate mandrel die) thats .001-.002 below the bullet diameter to open them back up. As a quick general reference the cases will have about .001 in case spring back each direction, sizing down theyll spring back .001 up or opening up theyll spring back .001 smaller. The brass wants to stay where it was prior. You can see how the bushings can work the brass from 2-4 times less than a normal full length die. Less working of the brass means longer case life. How much longer Im not sure, some people say half the life and some say it doesnt have an appreciable effect at all but I suspect much of that comes down to the particular brass and the particular sizing regimen and stuff that we cant guess at over the internet.

 

[snipershidephil]

For necking down cases you will want a full length non bushing die IMO

Perfect, thanks. Ordered the standard die.

Less working of the brass means longer case life. How much longer Im not sure, some people say half the life and some say it doesnt have an appreciable effect at all but I suspect much of that comes down to the particular brass and the particular sizing regimen and stuff that we cant guess at over the internet.

That's a good point. I'm assuming this is more of a concern when FL resizing every time, as opposed to just neck sizing (with the competition neck die)? Perhaps I can just use the standard FL die only initially and not worry about working the brass too much afterward.

Like I said, I'm new to reloading and I'm kinda swimming in the deep end so if I'm totally off, feel free to correct my misunderstandings.


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[spife7980]

That's a good point. I'm assuming this is more of a concern when FL resizing every time, as opposed to just neck sizing (with the competition neck die)? Perhaps I can just use the standard FL die only initially and not worry about working the brass too much afterward.

It is a concern to a certain extent. If you only use the full length the first time then it is of no concern. Dont worry about it.
Hell, plenty of people (myself included) dont run any bushing dies and stick with a normal full length die for every sizing. I much prefer to full length now; I am a neck sizing convert. Its just less hassle to do the same exact thing each time and full length size them to me.

I believe that your competition set has the normal body die but the neck die has bushings? In that case you could chose the right bushing for your neck and not worry about the full length die over working them like you stated.

Eventually though your neck sizing will not be enough and youll need to body die them.
When you fire a case it expands to fill the chamber and then contracts a slight amount, 1-3 thousandths. Each time you fire the case it gets harder. At a certain point the combination of the expanded case body contraction and work hardening will make extraction difficult because the case has just become larger than its elastic properties allow to fit nicely in the chamber. Chambering a round can even get difficult. For that reason the body die exists. You would use it and it would squeeze the case body and shoulders back restoring the clearance necessary for the case to fit in the chamber.

A full length does both the neck and body operations in one pass and you dont have to worry about any of what I just described. Yes it can work the brass too much but but much of that can be mitigated by only adjusting it to where you juuuust size enough.

I hope that wasnt too confusing. I had cases that I had neck sized only 15-20 times and Ive had brass Ive full length sized 15+ times. Both methods can achieve accurate ammo with long case lives.

 

[ZiaHunter]

For the lot of Lapua brass (300 cases) that I necked down to 6mm neck wall thickness was around .016 for majority of cases. This will give you a case neck diameter of .275 for a loaded round which can result in drag as well as potential overpressure. Check you neck wall thickness after necking down and this will require a tube micrometer. As mentioned above check the chamber neck dimension. You will need a standard FL sizing die to neck down the case all the way to the neck shoulder junction. A bushing die will not size the neck all the way down. I use a Redding FL sizing die for necking down.

 

[snipershidephil]

You will need a standard FL sizing die to neck down the case all the way to the neck shoulder junction. A bushing die will not size the neck all the way down. I use a Redding FL sizing die for necking down.

Alright, I'm glad i asked. Thank you all for the info! I'll post my progress once I get things underway.


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[MarinePMI]

I've never done it, but I'd wager that your 6CM seating die (with the seating plug removed) would work fine for necking a 6.5CM case down to 6CM. Redding mentioned once that the seating dies are the basis of their form dies. 6.5 => 6mm is a pretty small change, so it should work in a single pass. As you are necking down though, I would confirm the neck diameter/thickness of the formed cases. Sometimes when necking down, neck turning is required (though I think the 6CM may be an exception, I can't recall for sure).

BTW: For this or any other more radical wildcat case forming, Imperial Sizing wax is your friend.

JMTCW...

 

[snipershidephil]

I've never done it, but I'd wager that your 6CM seating die (with the seating plug removed) would work fine for necking a 6.5CM case down to 6CM.

Hmm good call, I've heard this as well and will have to try it.

I just received my competition die set and looked into the body die and can clearly see a body to shoulder leading into a neck space. Surely there must be some sort of resizing done when starting with a larger diameter neck. Question is, how much? I'll give it a shot and report back once I get some 6.5cm brass.


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