Gunsmithing Need a competent gunsmith that can finish a rebarrel on a POF 223

[the once-ler]

I need someone to complete a rebarrel job on a POF 223. I will have the gun back in my hands soon. this is a piston gun. Please PM me with any questions or details.

 

[the once-ler]

nobody knows any good smiths here?

 

[Guest]

POF will do it for you. Have you called them?

 

[the once-ler]

I have a Bartlien barrel I need installed on it. The gunsmith that was supposed to do it gave up on me. I could send it to POF and have them install a new POF barrel on it but that's not what it really needs.

 

[Gunsmith Dan]

I am definitely a beyond competent gunsmith but I do not keep up with all the latest products ........ since when did Bartlien start making AR style barrels????

OR

are you wanting someone to take a blank Bartlien Barrel and convert it to be used in a AR?????

If it is question #2 I definitely can tell you the vast majority of gunsmiths ....... including myself ...... would pass on that and tell you to call Bartlien .

 

[Killswitch Engage]

aside of chambering and fitting the barrel extension, turning the contour for the gas block and drilling the gp hole....what else is there? this isnt some magical stuff here. theres been plenty of blanks used for AR barrels. i would say the most challenging part will be to make sure you have the proper gp hole diameter and location for the best gas flow with the piston system.

 

[Guest]

I tried having a gunsmith put a Bartlien on my P308 and was told no thanks. Told me to call POF and have them do it.

GAP is the only company I know that will install a Bartlien on a P308 and they gave me a quote but said they require charging the gas system.

Not sure if they will do a POF 223.

 

[MLC]

You could have Compass Lake Engineering contour, chamber and install the barrel extension then have POF install the proper gas port diameter and reassemble.

 

[the once-ler]

Yea Killswitch you are right, it's quite elementary but proper placement of the gas port and making sure it falls in a groove instead of a land and making sure the measurements and placement of the gas block are correct. Chambering and threading for the barrel extension is simple and headspace for the bolt is also pretty simple.
Taking a blank and installing on a .223 AR rifle is not rocket science.

 

[Delta4-3]

Yea Killswitch you are right, it's quite elementary but proper placement of the gas port and making sure it falls in a groove instead of a land and making sure the measurements and placement of the gas block are correct. Chambering and threading for the barrel extension is simple and headspace for the bolt is also pretty simple.
Taking a blank and installing on a .223 AR rifle is not rocket science.

The gas port needing to fall in a groove is myth. I have made a lot of AR barrels and you cannot tell a difference in accuracy either way. I'm sure some people try to do it with good results. But, just think, sometimes it's not even possible due to port size, twist rate, etc. It will shoot great just fine if everything else is done correctly.

 

[the once-ler]

Ok I was told by the prior gunsmith that gas port location is critical and must fall between lands. Supposedly this gunsmith is one of the best in the country, he would have to be top notch to be working where he is.

 

[Gunsmith Dan]

Sorry to say but on a blank barrel not made for a AR you have to not just machine the outer lug, drill holes for gas port, gas block AND for the pin plus ream the chamber you have to also machine the LUGS (something everyone posting seems to forget somehow) since in a AR the lugs are not machined into the action but inside the barrel. A slight misalignment in any of those and you have a rifle that will malfunction and sorry to say that ends up costing more than the barrel (even a Bartlien barrel) to machine. IF it was that easy to do everyone and their grandmother would be doing conversions of barrels to AR, but no one really wants to pay for the time it takes to do it.

I definitely can do it but most customers do not want to pay for the labor time, either they change their minds or try to renegotiate after the work is done, so basically don't bother doing it since there is no profit to be made. The companies that make barrels for AR have specially setup machines that can spit them out all done correctly and that is why they can do it for cheap as there is very little labor time involved ....... for the rest of us not wanting to spend couple hundred thousand dollars on special setups just to convert AR barrels there is a lot of labor time involved.

 

[the once-ler]

Sorry to say but on a blank barrel not made for a AR you have to not just machine the outer lug, drill holes for gas port, gas block AND for the pin plus ream the chamber you have to also machine the LUGS (something everyone posting seems to forget somehow) since in a AR the lugs are not machined into the action but inside the barrel. A slight misalignment in any of those and you have a rifle that will malfunction and sorry to say that ends up costing more than the barrel (even a Bartlien barrel) to machine. IF it was that easy to do everyone and their grandmother would be doing conversions of barrels to AR, but no one really wants to pay for the time it takes to do it.

I definitely can do it but most customers do not want to pay for the labor time, either they change their minds or try to renegotiate after the work is done, so basically don't bother doing it since there is no profit to be made.

Uh the LUGS are not in the barrel they are in the BARREL EXTENSION which comes pre machined...

The barrel is then threaded into the extension and threading depth determines the HEADSPACE

 

[wtopace]

Sorry to say but on a blank barrel not made for a AR you have to not just machine the outer lug, drill holes for gas port, gas block AND for the pin plus ream the chamber you have to also machine the LUGS (something everyone posting seems to forget somehow) since in a AR the lugs are not machined into the action but inside the barrel. A slight misalignment in any of those and you have a rifle that will malfunction and sorry to say that ends up costing more than the barrel (even a Bartlien barrel) to machine. IF it was that easy to do everyone and their grandmother would be doing conversions of barrels to AR, but no one really wants to pay for the time it takes to do it.

I definitely can do it but most customers do not want to pay for the labor time, either they change their minds or try to renegotiate after the work is done, so basically don't bother doing it since there is no profit to be made.

Last I checked, the lugs are machined into the barrel extension and not the barrel itself. I guess you could forgo the barrel extension all together and just machine it into the back of the barrel, but I have never seen it done this way. Killswitch has it correct above: fit barrel extension, chamber, machine journal for gas block if it's not already the correct diameter, drill gas port, assemble. I haven't seen any gunsmiths shy away from chambering an AR15 and definitely have never seen a barrel maker ship out an "AR-15 specific" barrel with a specially machined set of lugs.

 

[Gunsmith Dan]

Yes that is the cheap and easy way to do it but that would defeat the purpose of buying a high end barrel by using an cheap extension. The best and most accurate way would be how I described it above which is what I assumed the OP wanted since he bought a top of the line barrel. Yes it can be done and has been done and if you want the ultimate accuracy possible out of a AR that is the way to do it, yes it is not common but not impossible either. Like I said 99% of people would not do it that way because the cost is high but for some cost is not an issue they want the best possible.

That's like buying a high end BMW motor and connecting it to a Ford Escort transmission!?!

 

[SPEAK338]

Bull shit
Screw on an extension

 

[the once-ler]

AR barrels are made from blanks. So if it were that hard there would be no AR barrels for sale

 

[the once-ler]

Yes BAT machine makes a very high quality extension

 

[NXS338]

Yes that is the cheap and easy way to do it but that would defeat the purpose of buying a high end barrel by using an cheap extension. The best and most accurate way would be how I described it above which is what I assumed the OP wanted since he bought a top of the line barrel. Yes it can be done and has been done and if you want the ultimate accuracy possible out of a AR that is the way to do it, yes it is not common but not impossible either. Like I said 99% of people would not do it that way because the cost is high but for some cost is not an issue they want the best possible.

That's like buying a high end BMW motor and connecting it to a Ford Escort transmission!?!

Are you saying they machine the locking lugs into the barrel blank itself? Like just so I am sure what your saying, you machine the barrel itself to take the place of the extension? I will call bullshit on this one, im not saying there has never been an idiot to try this but im not even sure making those cuts is possible. I would like to know who does this or says they do this, Pictures of one would be great......I have never heard of anyone doing this, not saying they havn't but i have never seen it or even heard of it.

 

[the once-ler]

Are you saying they machine the locking lugs into the barrel blank itself? Like just so I am sure what your saying, you machine the barrel itself to take the place of the extension? I will call bullshit on this one, im not saying there has never been an idiot to try this but im not even sure making those cuts is possible. I would like to know who does this or says they do this, Pictures of one would be great......I have never heard of anyone doing this, not saying they havn't but i have never seen it or even heard of it.

I call BS too. Most stainless barrels are pretty soft where as the extension has to be hardened to resist the constant pounding of the bolt

 

[Ledzep]

I'm a touch skeptical. I don't doubt you can make the cuts. It would be heinously time consuming if you aren't set up for it.

My biggest concern would be the hardness of the barrel steel vs. a normal barrel extension. IIRC Most barrels are like 30-35 RC. I want to say (don't quote me, memory at work here) extensions are closer to 60.

Screwing a barrel into an extension is no different from screwing a barrel into a receiver on a bolt action. I don't see what realistic accuracy is to be gained (out of a semi-auto) by machining it all as one integral part. Sounds like a big waste of time.

 

[MLC]

Yes that is the cheap and easy way to do it but that would defeat the purpose of buying a high end barrel by using an cheap extension. The best and most accurate way would be how I described it above which is what I assumed the OP wanted since he bought a top of the line barrel. Yes it can be done and has been done and if you want the ultimate accuracy possible out of a AR that is the way to do it, yes it is not common but not impossible either. Like I said 99% of people would not do it that way because the cost is high but for some cost is not an issue they want the best possible.

That's like buying a high end BMW motor and connecting it to a Ford Escort transmission!?!

It works for White Oak, JP and CLE.
My Bartlein AR barrel is far more limited by the driver than the barrel extension.

 

[NXS338]

I would love to see the video of that barrel being cut like that! That would be some crazy cuts and setups, even CNC would be difficult i bet.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Sorry to say but on a blank barrel not made for a AR you have to not just machine the outer lug, drill holes for gas port, gas block AND for the pin plus ream the chamber you have to also machine the LUGS (something everyone posting seems to forget somehow) since in a AR the lugs are not machined into the action but inside the barrel. A slight misalignment in any of those and you have a rifle that will malfunction and sorry to say that ends up costing more than the barrel (even a Bartlien barrel) to machine. IF it was that easy to do everyone and their grandmother would be doing conversions of barrels to AR, but no one really wants to pay for the time it takes to do it.

I definitely can do it but most customers do not want to pay for the labor time, either they change their minds or try to renegotiate after the work is done, so basically don't bother doing it since there is no profit to be made. The companies that make barrels for AR have specially setup machines that can spit them out all done correctly and that is why they can do it for cheap as there is very little labor time involved ....... for the rest of us not wanting to spend couple hundred thousand dollars on special setups just to convert AR barrels there is a lot of labor time involved.

lol....nope No AR barrel work for you

 

[Ledzep]

Drill/bore a hole, cut a chamfer, then bore out to the breech face. You'd need a special boring tool to cut the lug abutment faces.

Then you'd have to use the lathe like a shaper and scrape material out for the bolt lugs to pass through. Then set it up in a mill for feed ramps (hopefully you've got enough room).

If you wanted the indexing pin to be integral as well, that's doable, but a headache. I would just drill a blind hold and put a pin in there.

 

[SPEAK338]

Somebody post a pic of that BS meter off the scale for me please.

 

[the once-ler]

No ZEP is right it could be done but outrageously labor intensive and more than likely wouldn't hold up more than a few hundred rounds due to the barrel steel's softness. Just thread on a barrel extension and be done with it.
BE are made by high dollar CNC machines by the hundreds those machines are dedicated to make runs of them.

 

[Delta4-3]

Yes that is the cheap and easy way to do it but that would defeat the purpose of buying a high end barrel by using an cheap extension. The best and most accurate way would be how I described it above which is what I assumed the OP wanted since he bought a top of the line barrel. Yes it can be done and has been done and if you want the ultimate accuracy possible out of a AR that is the way to do it, yes it is not common but not impossible either. Like I said 99% of people would not do it that way because the cost is high but for some cost is not an issue they want the best possible.

That's like buying a high end BMW motor and connecting it to a Ford Escort transmission!?!

Nobody makes a barrel blank with a steel that would be suitable for lugs that I know of. Are you making your own blanks too? Any good machinist can find out if the extension is true, and if it is not, they can square it up, then install it. I made several hundred AR barrels and I don't have the talent or machines to machine a barrel with integral lugs. I would assume it would be best to use something like 17-4 Precipitation Hardening stainless for the lugs, but you wouldn't be able to find a barrel blank anywhere close to that. I'm very interested to know more about your process.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Yes BAT machine makes a very high quality extension

+1 and Bartlein does make AR contour barrels.

 

[the once-ler]

In this instance I have a barrel that may or may not be fully contoured and an extension

 

[19Scout77]

I am definitely a beyond competent gunsmith but I do not keep up with all the latest products ........ since when did Bartlien start making AR style barrels????

OR

are you wanting someone to take a blank Bartlien Barrel and convert it to be used in a AR?????

If it is question #2 I definitely can tell you the vast majority of gunsmiths ....... including myself ...... would pass on that and tell you to call Bartlien .

Wouldn't a beyond competent gunsmith do more than just cerakote?

 

[Lucky Jack]

Sorry to say but on a blank barrel not made for a AR you have to not just machine the outer lug, drill holes for gas port, gas block AND for the pin plus ream the chamber you have to also machine the LUGS (something everyone posting seems to forget somehow) since in a AR the lugs are not machined into the action but inside the barrel. A slight misalignment in any of those and you have a rifle that will malfunction and sorry to say that ends up costing more than the barrel (even a Bartlien barrel) to machine. IF it was that easy to do everyone and their grandmother would be doing conversions of barrels to AR, but no one really wants to pay for the time it takes to do it.

I definitely can do it but most customers do not want to pay for the labor time, either they change their minds or try to renegotiate after the work is done, so basically don't bother doing it since there is no profit to be made. The companies that make barrels for AR have specially setup machines that can spit them out all done correctly and that is why they can do it for cheap as there is very little labor time involved ....... for the rest of us not wanting to spend couple hundred thousand dollars on special setups just to convert AR barrels there is a lot of labor time involved.

This has to be one of the funniest SH posts ever....

What I would really like to see is a few pics of the set up you use to machine the lugs? on an AR barrel.

 

[MLC]

Machine Barrel Blank, Non-Standard Contour - $175.00 : Compass Lake Engineering, Best choice of weapons and accessories

Not to detract from the comedy.

 

[the once-ler]

I will contact them tomorrow. thanks MLC
And gol-dammit I knew a seen that Gunsmith Dan somewheres:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGEvDtqXGDY

 

[sakobob]

i better get in on this one, while dan (alleged gunsmith) is franticly searching arf.com for pics of so called one piece ar barrel.
in on1!

 

[the once-ler]

them one piece AR barrels be unicorns cause they so hard to make

 

[LRI]

Sorry to say but on a blank barrel not made for a AR you have to not just machine the outer lug, drill holes for gas port, gas block AND for the pin plus ream the chamber you have to also machine the LUGS (something everyone posting seems to forget somehow) since in a AR the lugs are not machined into the action but inside the barrel. A slight misalignment in any of those and you have a rifle that will malfunction and sorry to say that ends up costing more than the barrel (even a Bartlien barrel) to machine. IF it was that easy to do everyone and their grandmother would be doing conversions of barrels to AR, but no one really wants to pay for the time it takes to do it.

I definitely can do it but most customers do not want to pay for the labor time, either they change their minds or try to renegotiate after the work is done, so basically don't bother doing it since there is no profit to be made. The companies that make barrels for AR have specially setup machines that can spit them out all done correctly and that is why they can do it for cheap as there is very little labor time involved ....... for the rest of us not wanting to spend couple hundred thousand dollars on special setups just to convert AR barrels there is a lot of labor time involved.

I think you swallowed one of your teeth.

 

[Delta4-3]

^^^^^^^^This guy knows a little about barrels. That'd be who I'd trust to put me on the right track.^^^^^^^^^^^^