Need a new .308

[Followme438]

So, I am upgrading from my Savage 10FCP-SR to a .308 that will actually shoot 175gr or heavier projectiles. I am currently torn between the Tikka CTR, Bergara HMR, and Remington 700 Milspec 5R Gen2. What I am looking for is a rifle with a comfortable setup out of the box, with room to upgrade in the future. I want to be able to stretch the .308 as far as I possibly can, without having to resort to a 30" barrel. I would prefer a threaded barrel, couldn't care less about fluting, weight isn't much of an issue, as this rifle will mostly be used from a bench or prone, and as long as it weighs less than an M240, I'm okay with it. What I am asking for is for people to chime in with their experiences and opinions. Prices are similar enough that I honestly am torn. I have held all three, and honestly, the worst feeling one was the Tikka (that stock feels CHEAP). The one specific question I have is this: How much difference at range will I actually see between a 20" and a 24" barrel at... for giggles I'll say 900m?

Please don't suggest that I get a 6.5 Creedmoor or .260. I already have a RPR in 6.5CM and love it. I want a .308.

 

[isofahunter]

The HMR gets my vote. A buddy bought one and if I did not have a custom 308 already that is what I would buy. All the goodies you need IMO.

 

[pineoak]

Bergara makes a VERY good rifle. I'm a fan of Tikkas, but I'd go Bergara HMR of the ones you listed. AICS mags right off the bat (yes, expensive).

 

[Followme438]

Thanks so far guys. I do like the feel of the HMR. The big question really is will 4" less barrel hamper me at extended ranges?

 

[pineoak]

1. Unless you're in contention to place, just shoot for the best you can do

2. I recall Frank once said something to the effect of " there ain't nothing I can't do with the .308 with a 20 inch barrel"

Very recently he stated somewhere that 22" was the optimum length for .308 unless you go with slower powders

3. Todd Hodnett & Tac Ops both like 20" or shorter barrels in .308

You won't give up accuracy, but some fps... maybe 50?

4. On a factory R700 18" barrel shooting Hornady 168

Around 2600 at the muzzle

I still have 1250fps at 900 and not subsonic until 1100 or so

velocity will help with wind a bit

With ELD M or other high BC ammo, you should be fine at 900

I'd go 20" for .308 myself for all around shooting

PRS style competitors might want to squeeze every last bit of velocity they can out of their guns to help with wind at longer distances

 

[Followme438]

Thanks Pineoak. Not worried about the PRS stuff. If I decide to do that at all, it'll be with the RPR in 6.5 anyways. I'm heavily leaning towards the Bergara HMR right now. Held one in 6.5 at BPS and I liked the way it felt.

 

[rd_kng]

Gallery of guns sells the RPR in 308 with the Desolve Bare Reduced Camo in their Talo edition. Just a thought since you are already familiar. Good luck on your choice.

 

[shooter65]

pm sent

 

[Followme438]

Thanks RD, trying to add some variety. Staying away from chassis rifles for this one.

 

[rd_kng]

Understand that. All of my rifles are Mcmillan A5 or equivalent. Good luck.

 

[mheimer_45]

I’d look into a heavy barreled action from Howa. You can get them 20” or 24” threaded or not threaded. And throw on a stock of your choice. Everyone agrees the howa’s shoot. I can vouch for the .223 & 6.5 calibers. My 308 on the other hand shoots minute of barndoor with every ammo I’ve tried but it’s also an older rifle with few rounds waiting on time and funds for a rebarrel. .

 

[Followme438]

I have heard good things about Howa, however, I'd prefer to keep my money going to countries that we haven't tested experimental weapons on (kidding, mostly). No, I want to stick to a "known" brand. Savage broke me from trying to save a little. I know Bergara is a newcomer, but I've not heard a single negative review of the HMR.

That said, I haven't ruled out Howa, they're just far down the list.

 

[Shrubjr]

Well, I've owned a Savage 10FCP-SR and the Tikka. I would go with the Bergara HMR if I were you. For what it's worth, I really didn't like that particular Savage.

 

[plinkin]

I've got a HS Precision 308 in the classifieds guaranteed to shoot 1/2 moa, fully adjustable stock. That's all I shoot is 175 smk in it.

 

[Followme438]

Shrubjr, What didn't you like about the Tikka? Why the suggestion of the HMR?

 

[D. Hargrove]

IMHO the Bergara HMR is a fine rifle. I have had the chance to shoot the HMR in .308 recently, though only at 300 yards and found it to be a really good feeling rifle. Don't really think you can wrong with any of your choices though. Let us know what you finally select please.

David

 

[Followme438]

Oh, that'll definitely happen! I'll even include pics

 

[rd_kng]

I have nothing in it, but there is a Bergara HMR in the for sale section. Good luck.

 

[Followme438]

Already spoke to the gentleman. He's a class act and as long as nobody buys it before I get my tax return, I'll be purchasing. Too many good things said about the HMR to ignore.

 

[Shrubjr]

Shrubjr, What didn't you like about the Tikka? Why the suggestion of the HMR?

I really liked the Tikka, it was smooth and accurate! I'm more of a practical user than a match shooter, that is to say I live in a super remote place and I hunt and shoot stuff. So, the weaknesses of the Tikka for me were the bolt stop pin weakness, the long-action length without a need for it, and the expensive hard to find magazines. Don't get me wrong, I really did like it, but those are the nit-picky little things that I feel the HMR solves. I only sold the Tikka because I just spent all my money on a custom 6.5cm. If I hadn't, I'd be in the market for an HMR myself.

 

[Followme438]

Fully understood! Thanks for the info.

 

[Oddball Six]

Have to agree with what Shrubjr said here. The Tikka has an amazing bolt throw - so smooth you will be asking yourself "is this really factory?!"

Yet the magazines are just crazy money. Not sure how much I care about the bolt stop pin design - you would have to ask someone like lowlight who sees failures on a larger sample set than my own shooting...

 

[spife7980]

Why not put a new barrel on your savage? A good barrel will shoot better than a new factory barrel most days.

 

[wade2big]

Tikka magazines are $65 now. They have been this price for several months. Not to long ago they were expensive. I have a ctr in 6.5 creedmoor that I like. I have never fired one in .308.

I do have a 20” Remington 700 5R gen 1. It is a great rifle. Th only ammo I put through it is factory 175 gr fgmm. I get 2500 fps at sea level 80 degrees. I get about 2450 fps at 40 degrees. My father has a 24” 5R and gets 100fps additional velocity with the 175s trued at distance. No chronograph.

Do not get a 20” rifle unless there is a reason to go short. Enjoy the extra fps with the longer tube. You arent kicki g down doors and clearing rooms with your bolt gun n

 

[Followme438]

Thanks all. Yeah, I dig the 24" tube. I'm very much leaning towards the Remington 700. As to why I don't rebarrel the Savage, I have two answers: 1) I won't pay to send it back to Savage, and therefore their CS rep said I'm stuck with what I have (paraphrased), and 2) I will rebarrel it... in something other than .308. Lol, I'll take suggestions for that as well. I was leaning towards either 6mm Creedmoor and throw it in a chassis, or 6mm Dasher and throw it in a heavier stock.

 

[Upstate43]

I'd throw the FN SPR into consideration as well. A mauser-based action with controlled round push feeding (CRPF), chrome-lined barrel, very decent build quality from the factory. The newer variants come with threaded barrels, barrel fluting and I believe also use a 1:10 twist rate in place of the traditional 1:12 twist rate.

FN's rifles and accessories are perhaps a bit more expensive compared to Remington 700 platforms and accessories, but I do think you get a bit more quality for the extra the money. The SPR is easily sub MOA in stock form. With some tweaking of the trigger and appropriate hand loads, I think 1/2 MOA is easily achievable.

 

[coltm4]

My advice is to stay away from Remington. QC these days is questionable. Tikka for off the shelf accuracy and quality. Then get a KRG Bravo chassis or other KRG stock if the Bravo doesn't float your boat. Have you looked at Criterion drop in barrels for the Savage? My friend will likely do that soon for his.

 

[Followme438]

I hadn't really looked at the SPR as an option, so I'll take a peek. @coltm4, I have heard nothing but good things about this particular Remington, and I have two that were produced in the last 5 years that are both phenomenal shooters. My biggest issue with Tikka is that its roughly the same price, I have to get a new stock right off the bat, and the KRG Bravo is about the least expensive option. I know the rifle is shootable as is, but though that stock fits well, it feels absolutely cheap and is not designed for my desired use.


That being said: Are Tikkas really that great? I know the shorter bolt throw and the action is smooth, but for actual shooting? Do they shoot well enough to overlook the hollow, plastic stock? Or are we all falling victim to "Oooooh, its a Tikka, which is basically a Sako!"?

 

[spife7980]

While I too hate the tikka stock because of its “feel” I don’t think it’s a bad stock. It may be hollow but it is also much more stout than a plastic stock from any other rifle. Feels more like a canoe oar to me vs a piece of tupperware. And more than the bolt operation I like it’s trigger and I can’t imagine how good it feels with a yo dave spring added to it.

That said given your options I would go howa hcr just because of all that it offers at its price point.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Have an HMR in 6.5, it is a shooter no question about it. It has a decent trigger action is smooth.
The stock is also not bad it has a good solid feel to it.

The only quirks and some may not apply to a 308. The throat is very long forcing you to seat bullets long, but then they wont feed as the receiver is not notched. Scope mount threads are the small 6-48 so mounting a heavy scope may cause issues. Firing pin shroud is made out of what looks like a zinc casting.

 

[Followme438]

So, definitely still undecided. Everyone has great things to say about the Tikka, and the HMR, I have yet to hear of one that wont shoot well. The Remington is a known quantity to me. I have two and both are sub MOA, and the only thing I've done is put them both in Magpul Hunter stocks. That being said, can somebody articulate to me why I would pay the same money for a Tikka as the other two, and almost immediately need to upgrade the stock, for an additional $380-700? Will it shoot that much better after the new stock than the other two?

I'm not trying to be a douche, but I do want to spend my money at least somewhat wisely...

 

[spife7980]

The tikka stock is a fair shake better than the rem stocks I’ve seen/had. I mean, not compared to the upgraded hs stock models but the low end. If I were to buy another Remington it would be the one that’s 350 and I’d strip the bolt trigger stock and remage it.

 

[Followme438]

I feel you on that. The base remington stocks are garbage. I mean absolute crap. I cannot stress that enough. Haha, I really do hate to keep asking for quantifiable proof of something that's preference based. I love what I hear about Tikka, but the whole long action plus bizzare hollow stock thing throws me. Also, they're super light. My RPR is what I consider only a tiny bit heavy...

 

[athanasios23]

There is an old unfired rem 700 in 308 in the classifieds. Not sure it sold yet but worth a look. Believe its C prefix action.

 

[coltm4]

I hadn't really looked at the SPR as an option, so I'll take a peek. @coltm4, I have heard nothing but good things about this particular Remington, and I have two that were produced in the last 5 years that are both phenomenal shooters. My biggest issue with Tikka is that its roughly the same price, I have to get a new stock right off the bat, and the KRG Bravo is about the least expensive option. I know the rifle is shootable as is, but though that stock fits well, it feels absolutely cheap and is not designed for my desired use.


That being said: Are Tikkas really that great? I know the shorter bolt throw and the action is smooth, but for actual shooting? Do they shoot well enough to overlook the hollow, plastic stock? Or are we all falling victim to "Oooooh, its a Tikka, which is basically a Sako!"?

Having had a bad experience with a personal Remington 700 and glaring 870 barrel quality issues when I sold guns, I'm leery of Remington QC in general. The reputation of Tikkas not needing to be trued when being rebarreled as opposed to Remington actions that often need a little touch up makes it a no brainer for me. The beauty of Remington action is the aftermarket support (ironically to improve many functions from factory configuration). The cons for me is mainly the ridiculously short bolt handle that often pinches thumbs against scope. My second choice would be a Savage action if Tikka was off the table and similar budget constraints.

 

[Followme438]

Thanks coltm4. That's quantifiable, haha. I do appreciate the help from all.

 

[Followme438]

So, in absolute defiance of what I said earlier, I'm currently decided on the Howa Bravo with a 26" barrel. Any comments or things I should consider?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I'd go FN SPR.

 

[coltm4]

So, in absolute defiance of what I said earlier, I'm currently decided on the Howa Bravo with a 26" barrel. Any comments or things I should consider?

Another excellent choice. If you reload, give consideration to shooting good brass like Lapua or Alpha Munitions. I've been shooting Lapua 155 grain Scenar-L at about 2900fps from my Sako with a 26" barrel.

 

[Followme438]

Definitely not going with the SPR. Too much cash for my intended purpose.

@coltm4 I do handload, and I fully intend to use the Lapua brass I have for this new rifle. I also have a bunch of FGMM once fired that I'd shot out of my Savage. It seems to be good brass, runout has been ~.002 for the necks. I plan on running the 175gr pills in the new rifle, as they will fit my intended purpose very nicely, though I do want to try out the Berger 185 Jugs.

 

[Followme438]

As an update for those following this, I ordered a Howa Bravo today from Brownells. .308, with a 26" barrel. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Shawd43]

As an update for those following this, I ordered a Howa Bravo today from Brownells. .308, with a 26" barrel. Thanks for all the help!

Won’t be disappointed there, run a search on Howa vs Remington 700 on YouTube videos for a neat comparison. I’ll see if I can find the video and post it. I will not critique the video itself or his opinions however it does point out a few nice to know things about the Howa and Remington if you are unfamiliar with their internals. Also gives a nice side by side comparison.

 

[pineoak]

Congrats!!! Enjoy your new friend!

 

[SporterII]

Ah yes, the brass warning. My Howa Varmint would not extract FGMM.
Their inspection and reply / solution was "we fix these by the pallet" "FGMM BRASS IS NO GOOD".
Probably want to avoid that mistake.

 

[Followme438]

The Howa Bravo came in today... more to follow!

 

[pineoak]

Nice!

 

[Followme438]

Garbage picture, better to come. Haha