Night Vision Need a Thermal scopes for long hog hunting

[B1BRamBob]

I need advice on buying a thermal scope. Do I put 640 resolution over Refresh rate? Do I spend more for 60 hz over 30 every time? Do I want 50 mm or 100 mm lens? I’ve been looking at Armasight vs ATN. There are so many options. If I can afford a mid to upper range scope, what options give me the best long range shot? Any advise would help!

 

[wigwamitus]

What is a "long range shot" ? 300yds ? Or 900yds ?

Pulsars actually give you more support for long range shots.
Apex and Trail have reticles with holding subtensions
Trail has up to 10 saves per rifle, so you can in essence "dial" with a trail.

Otherwise, you are using the critter as the reticle.

I'd stay away from ATN for sure and FLIR (who bought Amasight) for now until they can prove they are supporting the line and the customers.

That leaves Pulsar on the low end and Trijicon on the high end.

The trijicon reticles are hunting reticles, they support rapid ranging and holding for movers but not holding for elevation or wind like a precision reticle. So with Trijicon you are using the critter as the reticle, which works fine out to 300yds with a little magnification.

The pulsars have a few reticles that support holding for elevation and wind, so they could be used beyong 300yds, but not many pulsar have much magnification, so there is that.

==
Don't get 60hz unless you are usually hunting out of choppers, you will use more battery and not much else.
==
Bigger lens pulls in more "information" and can enhance image in some conditions. Most "lens sizes" are actually focal length however, not physical lens size.
==

Well, anyway, not sure I understand why anyone needs to shoot hogs much beyond 300yds ... or even 200yds for that matter. But educate us further on your requirements and we will try to help more !!

 

[SkyScrapin]

Currently rocking a REAP-IR and FLIR T50. The 640 resolution is worth every penny, especially at range. I can ID pigs, coyotes, deer, cows, and small vermin at 500 yards (as far as I've tried to date)- can even pick-up heat from field mice inside of 150 yards. Like @wigwamitus said, shooting at range is rare. I almost always stock to less than 50 yards.

If you're optic supports 60hz, then use 60hz. Make no mistake, 60hz absolutely burns through batteries. I cannot make it through the night without swapping batteries at least once. Simple solutions to the battery dilemma: either carry more batteries or utilize a rifle mounted battery pack. I opt to carry more batteries as to keep the rifle nice and light for stalking.

 

[B1BRamBob]

I don’t think we will shoot behind 200 but you never know. I’m mainly shooting singles and trapping the large groups. I’ll look at the other companies. Thanks.

 

[Marine24]

640 resolution is definitely the way to go, particularly if you plan on using the digital zoom. Resolution will go from very clear objects to looking more like blobs are you increase the zoom. While a number of thermal scopes have impressive magnification ranges, I question how usable it is at the top end.

Pulsar has a unique "picture in picture" capability that has the objective in the native resolution and a PIP screen with the object magnified. Expect there will be a learning curve, but does appear very useful

 

[Marine24]

How significant is the larger objective size in overall performance? Trying to understand what "information" it is pulling.

I understand the concept of the larger objective pulling in more light and affording a wider FOV in traditional rifle scopes. Is the wider objective on a thermal operating on a similar concept expect working on infrared light?

Bouncing between a 50mm and 75mm objective lens but not sure how much it matters. Both are 640 resolution and 30Hz with 3x native resolution.

 

[wigwamitus]

First, most of the numbers like 50mm and 75mm we see for thermal lenses actually refer to the focal length rather than the physical lens diameter.

Here is a short article on microbolometers:

https://web.archive.org/web/2015111....com/view/viw_techprimer_uncooledtutorial.asp

A larger diameter lens will pull in more electromagnetic radiation ... i.e. "information" ... (word chosen to indicate "not visible light")

==
It doesn't matter in some conditions, it does in other conditions, in particular in "poor" thermal conditions. High humidity, mist, ice storm (everything the same temp) etc. in those poor conditions, the less capability thermals will have their image degrade faster, though all thermal images will degrade. But there are other variables as well, including both hardware and software and even the "quality" of the lens material, just like day scopes.

The magnification/FOV trade off is probably more significant, than the performance aspect of slight more lens versus slight less lens.

 

[Marine24]

Wig: Appreciate the information. Definitely helps. Focal length I can understand.

 

[sawhornsoff]

Definitely go 640.

I tend to run 30 Hz in my IRD m300w to save batteries so 60hz is not a big deal unless you are shooting a running animal or you are in a moving vehicle.

 

[CBDR]

Just out of curiosity, what are you mounting this on. Tell me it's a bolt action if your wanting to reach out to 300 in the dark?

 

[sawhornsoff]

M300w will work for you out to 100 maybe 200. It isn’t a collimated true clip on optic so you would be disappointed running it as a clip on. I mount other clip on units like the L3 LWTS to a front rail on my KMW stock, on the rail on AIAX, and on the rail DTA.

 

[B1BRamBob]

Just out of curiosity, what are you mounting this on. Tell me it's a bolt action if your wanting to reach out to 300 in the dark?

LaRue POBR which will go to 300 plus with my loads.

 

[deersniper]

Lol why would it have to be a bolt? Lol

 

[Marine24]

So why not ATN?

Saw a video by Lone Star Boars about his experience with three ATN Thor 640 with two out of three having problems that does give me pause. General gist of the video doesn't paint the ATNs in a good light in comparison to Armasight, FLIR and Pulsar.

Other video reviews I've seen have been more positive, but most have been retailers.

 

[wigwamitus]

I did a review last Nov in my "practicing" thread ... the Thor HD 19mm 1.25x 384 ... on black hot, there was NO image. That was just one of about 6 issues. It was an "unfinished thing" IMHO. The good news was the for once ATN CS was helpful and they told me to send it back, which I did, for a refund.

I do have an ODIN 1x 17mm 320(30) and I've used that on my helmet for the past 2 years and I think it is great. So not all the ATN crap is crap. but the new Chinese ATN crap seems to be crappier ... at least in my experience.

Pulsar on the low end ... Trijicon on the middle end ... and military thermals on the high end ...

==
Armasight was king 2-3 years ago, but since the merger, the direction FLIR is taking is not clear. I hear they sacked the entire CS team and Armasight CS was actually good IMHO. Product announcements, such as the Q-14B have not come to market over a year after announced at SHOT 2016. I sold all three of my Armasight thermals. I'm in "wait and see" mode on FLIR. I dont' think "armasight" exists. But we need to see what FLIR is going to do and see a track record of a direction. And we have not seen that yet.

So Pulsar, Trijion or Military ...
That's the way I'd go.

 

[Marine24]

Thanks Wig. Finding objective reviews can be tough. But a few that I've seen that aren't outright marketing videos, seem to put ATN in the second position when comparing them to Pulsar or Armasight.

 

[wigwamitus]

Maybe 5th position !
I've heard real hunters speak moderatly highly of the older thors ... and I like my ODIN .. and I've seen one real hunter speak moderately highly of OTS ... so maybe the pre-chinese ATN thermals were ok. But with the Thor HD brand, the "whiz" seems to have gone up but the quality down.

==
The Pulsars are well liked .. so were the Armasights ... but with the merger, I was worried they would not fix the units like Armasight did. Officially, Armasight warrantied only the original owner. But in real life they asked no questions and always fixed stuff. Hunters are no longer sure that is or will happen.

Trijicon CS seems to be the same people. Last time I sent my Mk3 in, they sent me a new unit.

The military thermals can be tougher to get fixed. But they are tougher to break also.

==
I have
2 military
2 trijicon
1 pulsar
1 atn

And I like them all for what they are.

 

[Marine24]

Pulsar Trail is growing on me. Saw a video of the XP50. While I would prefer to have a native magnification of higher than 1.6X, I was impressed how effective it was at ranges I expect to shoot. You could easily a 2'x2' steel plate at 250 yards at 1.6X. Definitely a lot to like.

 

[CBDR]

Zeus still going strong. Now serving as my primary scanning optic.

 

[B1BRamBob]

Thanks will call this next week.

 

[Maxduty]

On a side note..am I the only one who read this and assumed long pig?

 

[wigwamitus]

Long Pig (definition): "a translation of a term formerly used in some Pacific Islands for human flesh as food."

 

[predator308]

A wide range of thermal scopes are available out there 640 resolution is definitely the way to go. since long range shot is top on your list Pulsars models actually give you more support for longrange shot. i will definitely narrow my search down to Pulsars model.

 

[101eagle]

I need advice on buying a thermal scope. Do I put 640 resolution over Refresh rate? Do I spend more for 60 hz over 30 every time? Do I want 50 mm or 100 mm lens? I’ve been looking at Armasight vs ATN. There are so many options. If I can afford a mid to upper range scope, what options give me the best long range shot? Any advise would help!

If you planning on shooting fast moving targets, go with 60hz, if you are planning on shooting more than 150 yds,, the bigger the lens the better for native magnification. In my opinion, don't wast your time with ATN, just my 2 cents.