NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

[-Nick-]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdh4376</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Put a trailer park all the way around his 5 acres with month to month lot lease so you can get rid of them after he leaves .Rent it to the most shady people you can find .Make his life suck hog nuts .Dig a trench all the way around his house ,and fill it with checken litter . Give permission to the highschool kids to have partys ,and bondfires right next to him .Its yalls land make him remember that. </div></div>

And then when the guys finally gone and you're now stuck with shady people on your property as tenants that have legal rights and you have to pay a fortune to get them evicted but of course it's not an easy eviction because you LET them do it, and then lets not forget the cost of removing the trailers and taking all the trash to the dump... Great plan...

Add: And high school kids with bonfires... yeah... Now you face charges for minors drinking on your property that you gave them access to and lawsuits from the parents when one of them who evaded Natural Selection does something stupid and gets hurt on your property... Another great idea...

 

[mm509]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Work that son-of-a-bitch like a rented mule!!!! No need for you to build a berm, FOR FUCKS SAKE YOUR FAMILY HAS A CARE TAKER!!!!!

Make sure and sit in a lounge chair drinking fuckin mai tais making sure he isnt draggin ass.

Like I said "RENTED MULE"!!

 

[jdh4376]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Yes that is what the month to month lease is .The clean up easy fishfry that went wrong followed by dozier ,and you have never seen any of those lil bastard kids before in your life .We are problem solvers here in the south .Maybe not pol correct ,but we get stuff done .

 

[sdkidaho]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patches</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I had a member give me his phone number and we talked for a while. He gave me some great info on how the marines set-up ranges and the safety guide to do such. You know who you are. Thank you.</div></div>

That sounds like good info. Is it something you or he can share with us?

 

[Slapchop]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rowdyryno</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was with Mr.Patches while this whole situation went down both times. I wanna start out buy saying this was the most unprofessional act from a person let alone a law inforcement officer I have ever witnessed in my life. The first encounter from the offercer was just a "hey we are getting complaints" situation but was getting dark and we were already packing up so no clash was needed. The second encounter was completely opposite he approached the truck with a bad attitude throwing threats around, <span style="color: #FF0000">fowl language</span>, talking down to patches and myself. With this I was shocked but not my land so I will stay quiet and witness everything and play (NINJA) let patches do what he does best and state facts that prove neither POS (land care taker) and POS worthless sheriff (that being the cop) know anything that they are talking about and that one of them is a spineless coward that hides behind a spineless sheriff that hides behind his badge. You could tell the officer didn't want a fight with patches facts cause he threatened us one last time to haul us in and he jumped in his truck (in regular clothes) and drove off. So I will keep all updates as I'm am sure patches will do the same. Thanks for all the advice to help the situation </div></div>

Birds can talk?

 

[Slapchop]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
OP... You're taking advice on a matter that could cost you dearly. You need to step away from here and GO GET AN ATTORNEY! </div></div>

By far the BEST advice here. Take it!

The deputies actions make him sound fugazy and like he is acting on his own. Document everything and call a LAWYER, preferably not one from the internet.

 

[Teggy1]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Talking to the S.O. and calling a lawyer are the best advice you've gotten here.

 

[Graham]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Why not make an appointment with the Sheriff himself and go have a chat with him; ask him what the problem is, see if he knows about the incident, whether he backs his Deputy and if so, why (or if not, why not). Then at least you'll know what the issue is, who is involved, and his position on it.

 

[Highpoint]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

A good backstop goes a long ways to prevent an issue like this. I have a pistol range in my back yard with a 8 foot dirt wall built on the edge of my property. The land owner behind there (wooded area)come up wanting to pitch a fit about shooting until she saw the effort I put into keeping the lead contained. It was a heated conversation untill I took her to the backstop and showed her. She left on good terms and I havent seen her since.

 

[darkarcher]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I am assuming it is legal to shoot there, so file a complaint with the Sheriff's Office. They should open an IA at least give you an answer of there intent to restrict you and if they do nothing, it will help later with attorney's. If no satisfaction there, file one with the county commissioners, or at least give them a letter of intent to sue if is is not resolved asap. That may get you there without an attorney. If not, get one.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdh4376</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes that is what the month to month lease is .The clean up easy fishfry that went wrong followed by dozier ,and you have never seen any of those lil bastard kids before in your life .We are problem solvers here in the south .Maybe not pol correct ,but we get stuff done . </div></div>

Even a month to month tenant has rights. You have to give notice and if they don't leave voluntarily, which as you suggested they're shady, then you have to go to court and evict them. As for the rest it's pointless to explain all the reasons why that doesn't work because if it isn't obvious by now then explaining isn't going to make a difference...

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Was the "caretaker" given a utility easement and specified access to his 5 acres?

If not, I'd shut off his electricity and prohibit him from trespassing on your land.

Worth checking into, anyway.

 

[remau308]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

After reading this, I would recommend what my father did to a bitchy neighbor (and cousin). Build a chicken house right next to his property. That smell will piss him the fuck off so bad he won't be able to stand it. You could always be sure to have a manure stockpile set up nearby for the farm.

Needless to say, we could build a nuclear reactor on our property, and they wouldn't say a word. You need to hit him in the small things in life. When he walks out his door on a beautiful spring morning, instead of smelling flowers or the smell of a light rain...he'll smell shit. It won't take him long to realize he fucked up. Just a little food for thought.

 

[patches]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I have considered a compromise in building a berm. I have no problem with this. I would need permission from my grandparents to do so. It's sad that I would have to bother them for such a thing being that the construction of a backstop would prevent nothing from happening. The only thing it may provide is piece of mind for someone. But i guess at the end of that day isn't that what some people need? That warm and fuzzy feeling before they go to bed....

I do not want go get petty with the caretaker. I would like to think I'm above such things. On the other hand I'm looking forward to reading the contract....

It's frustrating because I was not breaking any laws and he had no reason to call the Sherif's office. The only thing he would say when I questioned him is this:

Me: "Steve, why did you call the Sherif on us for shooting on our property?"

Steve the caretaker: "What you are doing is dangerous. A bullet could ricochet and kill someone." ( the nearest house remotely in the line of fire is 2.7 miles away and it sits well off to the west, about a quarter)

Literally, that was his reasoning when I spoke with him.....

It's funny, because the sherif deputy had the same reasoning when he told me to leave.

To make things clear, I am not the land owner. My grandparent are the owners. My father is the trustee in their trust and I fall after him. I have found my name is actually in the trust. At this point in time I have no say in what the caretaker does. I only have permission to do whatever I want on the property within the constraints of the law....

At this point I'm gathering info and ammo for my side of the argument. It's sad that I have to go through such bullshit just to shoot on our family land but this is the world that we live in. It would be much easier to give up and sell all of my rifles, but isn't that what they want us all to do?

Gentlemen, thanks again for the input.

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Your lawyer will be able to get a copy of the call log from the sheriff's office for both days. If there is no entry in the log then it may be that they are friends and the deputy was misusing his authority. MM

 

[G14]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Here is what I would do regarding the Sheriff's Deputy and Sheriff's Office:

1. I would get the deputy's report. Section #22 of their policy states you are entitled to the report. See website. If they don't have a report ask why and when one will be available.

2. After getting the report, or being told there was no report, I would call and set an appointment with the Sheriff or Undersheriff. Preferably, the Sheriff.

3. I would present notarized Affidavits from yourself and your shooting partner during the meeting. In the Affidavits I would quote the language used by the deputy, his dress, the threat of future retaliation without probable cause, and him not having a firearm on him. These should all be policy violations, and should have some sort of repercussions. You will never know what repercussions, because it will be considered private by law.

Personally, in the Affidavits I would keep them short and to the point. I would only write about the policy violations by the deputy. I would not include any details regarding the call, i.e. shooting direction. Who knows, this might be an on-going issue with this deputy, and he may have similar complaints.

4. I would file a formal complaint with the Sheriff. The reason I say formal as an informal one will have no teeth. The notarized Affidavits should automatically make it a formal complaint, but read their policy book. It's on there website.

5. I would audio record any meetings you have with the Sheriff. I would let the Sheriff's know you are recording the meeting as a courtesy.

This should take care of the problems with unprofessional deputies. If there are any future interaction with law enforcement they will be put on notice such behavior will not be tolerated. Plus, the Sheriff should know what his deputies are doing as they represent him.

When out shooting I would have a digital recorder on my person. When you see the deputy pull up, pull it out, and start recording. I would tell the deputy you are recording it and show the recorder. Or, if you want to do it in secret, I would suggest you review state laws regarding recording.

I would also position myself in front of the deputy's patrol vehicle. He will not be recording audio, but most cameras now days will always be recording if his vehicle is running. The trick to this is the IT guy will have to pull the recording before the hard drive it written over. Usually 24 to 48 hours. So you need to request the recording within this time period. Only emergency light activation or manual recordings will be uploaded onto a server, and in those cases will be deleted after 30 days if not requested by the defendant. Most people do not know this.

I do not see any law violations by the deputy. He had a lawful presence to make sure you were shooting in a safe direction.

I personally disagree with how he handled the call if the details your provided were the facts. Not saying they are not. Always two sides to the story. I strongly disagree with the language used by the deputy. Starting off an interaction with the general public using that language is unacceptable. I am not saying law enforcement should never use foul language as sometimes it is unavoidable depending on the situation. This situation does not fit that criteria.

 

[SLINKY ERT]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I do not see any law violations by the deputy. He had a lawful presence to make sure you were shooting in a safe direction.
</div></div>

IF he was acting in an off duty capacity, then yes, it could be construed as Trespassing and Harassment (here in MD anyway). To enter upon someone else's property without legal reason is a BIG no-no. IF he was on duty, and recieved a complaint, then no laws were broken.

EDIT: If he was off duty, but "called out" for manpower issues to handle the complaint (hence the plain clothes), then that's covered under the "on-duty" clause.

Some questions need answered before much more advice beyond "Talk to the Sheriff" can be conveyed.

 

[Loner]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aur0ra145</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A. Don't ever talk to the care taker again. That will only harm your position.

B. If it's legal (you have land requirement via the state) shoot anyways. Practice safety, don't intimidate your land guy.

C. Document EVERYTHING!

D. The cop that came out, does he have family/friend relations with the care taker? Next time, request another officer come out. Or request the PIO come out. If what's going on is a purely (buddy boy helping buddy boy situation) get documentation.

I am not a lawyer, and my advice is by no means legal advice. I have had run ins with law enforcement where the department in question over stepped their bounds (unlawfully detaining minors in an attempt to find information unlawfully.) [Since, it took a loooooonnnnnnngggg time, I have restored my faith in LEO's; but, look out, your situation sounds very fishy if you are telling everything.]

I don't mean to start a fight. Just be careful. Document everything via multiple parties. </div></div>


Good advise.

 

[gonzaga]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Tell the deputy that he is trespassing, and ask him to leave.

 

[KTDLS7]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

This may be a matter of semantics, but according to the website, "Jan Smith" is not a deputy sheriff:

Norwich Officer:  Jan Smith

Where is Norwich, and what is a Norwich Officer?

Kevin

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ktdls7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Norwich Officer:  Jan Smith

Where is Norwich, and what is a Norwich Officer?

Kevin
</div></div>
A Norwich is a sandwich, apparently they are not popular in TX.
Tasty as hell!
Jan Smith oversees the making of Norwich sandwiches.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but to me it seems the easiest thing to do would be to contact the Sheriff, and find out what the complaint consisted of.
The whole thing sounds, smells fishy, and before spending any time, or money, find out what's going on.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ktdls7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This may be a matter of semantics, but according to the website, "Jan Smith" is not a deputy sheriff:

Norwich Officer:  Jan Smith

Where is Norwich, and what is a Norwich Officer?

Kevin
</div></div>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwich,_Kansas


it would appear that Deputy Jan Smith is assigned as the Officer for Norwich, KS

 

[patches]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Well...... I figured I'd fill in some info for the couple of people that I know who are watching this thread. As it turns out, my grandpa gifted the land to the caretaker with a "gentlemen's" agreement that he would maintain the property. Not the brightest idea he's ever had. He is afraid that if the caretaker gets mad he will have no one to take care of the farm. Here's his official response, copy and pasted from my email:

We received your E-Mail. We do appreciate your concern.
As trustees of our Living Estate. We are making a Law for every one concern Relatives Neighbors and Friends.
There will be no Hunting, Target Shooting Fishing. There will be No Guns Bow@Arrows Spears or any thing on any of the Estates Property. We would appreciate you getting your Targets off as soon as you can. Please let us know when you do.
Take care, We love you Grandma and Grandpa.

Looks like I'm either finding a new place to shoot, or I have about $70k worth of gear that will be up for sale on the hide. I will still be going after the caretaker and deputy. I don't have much to lose at this point.

 

[High Binder]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patches</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well...... I figured I'd fill in some info for the couple of people that I know who are watching this thread. As it turns out, my grandpa gifted the land to the caretaker with a "gentlemen's" agreement that he would maintain the property. Not the brightest idea he's ever had. He is afraid that if the caretaker gets mad he will have no one to take care of the farm. Here's his official response, copy and pasted from my email:

We received your E-Mail. We do appreciate your concern.
As trustees of our Living Estate. We are making a Law for every one concern Relatives Neighbors and Friends.
There will be no Hunting, Target Shooting Fishing. There will be No Guns Bow@Arrows Spears or any thing on any of the Estates Property. We would appreciate you getting your Targets off as soon as you can. Please let us know when you do.
Take care, We love you Grandma and Grandpa.

Looks like I'm either finding a new place to shoot, or I have about $70k worth of gear that will be up for sale on the hide. I will still be going after the caretaker and deputy. I don't have much to lose at this point. </div></div>

Damn, you're grandparents just slapped you down. That is brutal.

 

[SD26]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

It is unfortunate that it appears that the value has been placed with the caretaker rather than with the family and safe recreation. What's your take, patches?

 

[HBAM1]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Private property falls into a different category, depending on state law.
He probably shut it down for "public safety" no doubt, and this can be done temporarily-notice temporary.
Contact the range owner, go to court and it should get sorted out.
Private ranges typically are not visited by LE because they are just that, "private".
good luck, let us know what transpires.

 

[redirt78]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Man, that is awful. Hate to hear it man. I hope you can find somewhere else to go. I lost all the places I have hunted for a long time when some family land was sold about a week ago. So I kind of know what it feels like and it's not good. Going to have to look for new places, won't be the same but have to find something.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

So patches, we have two pages of shit, and you didn't have permission to shoot?

 

[patches]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So patches, we have two pages of shit, and you didn't have permission to shoot? </div></div>

We did indeed have two pages of shit as you state it. I HAD permission to shoot. I NO LONGER HAVE permission to shoot.

I thought that was clear.....

 

[patches]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is unfortunate that it appears that the value has been placed with the caretaker rather than with the family and safe recreation. What's your take, patches? </div></div>

It appears this way. I realize this is not in my favor by any meant, but at I, at the very least, wanted to post up some results as a curtesy to all of the people that provided information and support. Obviously this not life or death.... I forwarded the email to my dad to let him know what's happened. Unfortunately this means the end of my relationship with my grandparents. I am not disassociating myself with them out of spite, but simply because I do not want to associate myself with people that have the same values they do. They are not the people I thought they were, and I'm sure my presence will not be missed. Now if I could only get back that $200 gift card I sent them for Christmas!!! lol

 

[-Nick-]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A78063</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Private property falls into a different category, depending on state law.
He probably shut it down for "public safety" no doubt, and this can be done temporarily-notice temporary.
Contact the range owner, go to court and it should get sorted out.
Private ranges typically are not visited by LE because they are just that, "private".
good luck, let us know what transpires.
</div></div>

Welcome to the hide. A pointer for you... Before commenting it might help if you actually read any number of post prior to commenting...

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patches</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So patches, we have two pages of shit, and you didn't have permission to shoot? </div></div>

We did indeed have two pages of shit as you state it. I HAD permission to shoot. I NO LONGER HAVE permission to shoot.

I thought that was clear..... </div></div>
Sorry Patches,
I've watched this emotional thread from the start, I made a mistake. I wasn't going back to reread. I was on your side from the onset.
I think your Grandparents should've notified you of the changes, going after anyone will bring no good.
Basically you're fucked!
Now face it, you're not loved.

 

[patches]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Milo-

My mother never hugged me as a child either..... :-(

 

[pinsandpitons]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Patches: LAME!!! That's no good. I'm sorry that they went that direction. Who knows why. A stab in the dark says that neither of the GPs not are hunters/shooters. I would advise you (man, just gettin' it from all sides) to drop the sheriff/caretaker issue. Letting the SO know about their deputy's behavior, great. But don't pursue any action that could be viewed as retribution. Anyway that you could go have a talk with old granddad and get him to see your side? Maybe you could take care of the place? Again... LAME!

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I would definitely attempt a face-to-face, with the intent of clarity on both sides.

You are family, and 'they' are respecting the caretaker 'more' than you. What brought that on?

If they treat you in any disdainful way, then go about your business as you wish. But if there is any 'sideways stories' or anything, do clear it/them up.

This is family, after all, and you can't give up that quick.

oh, and to A78063,,,, wake up and actually know what you're talking about. As has been suggested already.

 

[patches]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would definitely attempt a face-to-face, with the intent of clarity on both sides.

You are family, and 'they' are respecting the caretaker 'more' than you. What brought that on?

If they treat you in any disdainful way, then go about your business as you wish. But if there is any 'sideways stories' or anything, do clear it/them up.

This is family, after all, and you can't give up that quick.

oh, and to A78063,,,, wake up and actually know what you're talking about. As has been suggested already. </div></div>

While I appreciate the advice here's how I look at it:

In life, you are nothing more than the sum total of your useful skills. I have talked to them. They are afraid that the caretaker will no longer take care of the farm if they continue to allow me to shoot. Regardless if it's legal or not. With that said obviously the caretaker's service is more important than me being allowed there. Even thought I have offered to pay for a different caretaker. What's done it done. Like I mentioned I doubt my presence will be missed. (except when they need me for things like: Fixing there well, moving their belongings, organizing birthday parties, selling their RV, etc.) I've already told them, "I'm out." Let the caretaker do all of that shit. Oh wait.... He won't.....

 

[TRAAV]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Tag.
No cops involved but I've had a similar situation with a neighbor. I turned my whole range around and am good for now but see the possibility for problems in the future.

 

[jcfd2201]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Patches,

Thanks for the update as I, like many others, have been following this thread. I think it is unfortunate that your grandparents have seen fit to take this position. Perhaps someday in the future your dad will have power of attorney or control by other means at which time he can change that clause in the trust. Until then don't let this eat at you and let the caretaker be, everyone gets what's coming to them in the end and he too shall get his. Good luck in finding another location to shoot. Stay safe.

 

[bonzo336]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Patches, don't let this come between you and your family. I've been without my grand parents for over 15 years and a day doesen't pass that I want to talk to them about something. Did I see eye to eye with all the time no, but some things are more important. Find a new place to shoot, hell i live in New Jersey and have a range to shoot at, granted I pay for a membership and share the range with others. I don't know how old you are but my family is the most important thing in my life, and I won't let anything come between it. Hope things work out for you.

 

[Outlaw1]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Sorry, I'm not getting on the 'let's sue everyone' wagon.

Again and again I see people suggesting lawyers to solve everyone's problems. This isn't a legal problem, this is a problem between grown people.

Anyone can be reasoned with, especially grand parents. The squatter is going to be in the picture, period. Why not gather everyone up and just talk to them and tell them what your plan is.

Honestly, it shouldn't be too hard. Grab a map or plot plan of the area, mark it up with what you want to do, then explain the direction you intend to shoot, what you're shooting and prove to them you are doing it right. Is a person, or the cattle going to catch a stray bullet? That's really the only question anyone ever had. Is it safe? Do you need to build a berm? Prove it and everyone will be happy.

Obviously a handshake means a lot to your grandpa. Well, give him one, regardless of the outcome. The squatter is there to take care of your grandparents. Shake his hand and tell him you appreciate him taking care of the most important thing in your life. Your family. Respect and appreciation will get you further than a lawyer will in this situation.

Yes, I realize it's not going into a legal battle at this point, but it shouldn't have even been considered in the first place.

 

[Jarhead]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I'm not sure what selling the property will do.Nothing survives a closing.You might find that their contract only is in effect if the property is not sold.Years ago we had a similar situation my Uncles owned acres in northern NJ had a shooting range for years with neighbors.New neighbors moved in and claimed a bullet struck their home from my 45.The state police arrived and he had a perfect slug in his hand and claimed it came from us shooting.I got pissed and told him after looking at it lets do ballistics on it and see where it came from.He threatened me and same crap about people getting shot into 15 miles of woods.Either way we lost in court seems public safety prevailed regardless of the facts.Times we live in where common sense is no longer common.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beretta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure what selling the property will do.Nothing survives a closing.</div></div>

That's false. Many things transfer with title.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

As I have learned, "Once you need a lawyer, you've already lost."


And in life, that is most definitely, fact. Whereas here on the 'Hide, (and only the 'Hide) there are actually a few lawyers here, whom are exceptional human beings. The cream has obviously risen to the top.

Unfortunately, it is an exceptionally deep bucket. So very very deep.

 

[spaniel]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Well, for the people who say don't let this get between you and family...your family just threw you under the bus. Been there, done that with the grandparents. As you stated, you are better off letting the caretaker caretake them from now on, if that is how they feel. Save yourself the hassle, they will either come to their senses or not...either way you are better off than where you are now.

This is why I extended myself to the limit to secure wholly-owned land to shoot years ago...still haven't solved the hunting land issue though I am in good shape now, but am working on it as in a few years I am not sure myself and all three of my offspring will be welcome where I currently hunt and their experiences are more important than my own.

 

[Jarhead]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Every State is different but i don't think rental agreements are enforceable when property is sold.The people in question I believe have a life estate.Unless they are willing to allow you to sell the property you might not be allowed to sell the property and they might be allowed to receive money from the sale.I don't know the agreement you have but usually a life estate is written by an attorney.

 

[gjantzer]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was the "caretaker" given a utility easement and specified access to his 5 acres?

If not, I'd shut off his electricity and prohibit him from trespassing on your land.

Worth checking into, anyway.

</div></div>

No offense but this isn't worth 2 minutes of your time. The utilities company will not install utilities without having easements in place for their equipment. They are not about to install a bunch of free equipment on your property and let you keep it.

 

[gjantzer]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Sorry about the loss of your shooting area. If you get back on good terms with your grandparents, let them know they have an interesting situation. If they do not have a contract spelling out the terms of the deal, they may be screwed. It would be interesting, however, to see how the "caretaker" explains why he has been taking care of the farm for free for so many years. Out of the goodness of his heart arguments are very suspect to judges.

Good luck in your search for new shootings lands.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beretta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every State is different but i don't think rental agreements are enforceable when property is sold.The people in question I believe have a life estate.Unless they are willing to allow you to sell the property you might not be allowed to sell the property and they might be allowed to receive money from the sale.I don't know the agreement you have but usually a life estate is written by an attorney. </div></div>

Again, you don't know what you're talking about on this issue. Almost every State has some form of Landlord Tenant Act in place. A Rental contract is just as enforceable after a sale and is not eliminated just because of transfer of title. A rental agreement follows the property, not the owner. And a Life Estate does NOT prohibit the sale of a property typically.

 

[Ch ris Bar]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Perhaps the old guy is senile and cannot stand a departure from the way it "use-to-be" (no rifle fire). If he is no longer capable of living there...does the agreement go away? Take him a six pack or a quart and try to make friends....found that is the cheapest and sometimes most effective way to achieve what you want.

 

[Jarhead]

Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Broker your wrong,A life estate will require permission to sell the property.Rental agreements do not usually survive closing s because tenants are moved out prior to closing s.Nothing survives a closing unless you pay in court and winning some small payment in court and to spend 5000 to get 1000 isn't a win.I have bought and sold more property than I can remember.Even been screwed by attorneys and unless you have been involved in litigation in court keep your school books theory just that theory.No offence to you understand but I have lost thousands dealing with this and sometimes it's better to understand your options legally and financially by a good lawyer.Small towns and courts and can go very badly in this type situation.Life estates are powerful contracts and one that would be best approached very smartly when dealing with people.Like I said I went to court and paid for my uncle we lost due to a public safety clause.Which I believe can be applied anywhere now especially with firearms.We have people in the woods,animals in the woods ,and bullets can fly for miles was the judges remark and I can't guarantee a stray bullet would not impact the neighbours home or animals.We were shooting into a earthen berm with heavy logs as a back stop.I was pissed but what can you do .