Night Vision Need Advice (Spots in PVS-30)

[dbransco]

Hello, I was hoping for some advice from the those more experienced than I. I recently acquired a non-refurbished PVS-30. The tube was free of blemishes originally. After 4 shots with a SCAR 17 and it appears that spots have formed (hopefully not/perhaps something else)? I would have thought that a military grade unit, rated for recoil up to 50 BMG would be more robust? I have included the best photos I could take and was hoping for any advice/suggestions/diagnostic help. The optic is a Nightforce NX8 1-8 with FC mil reticle.
Thanks!

 

[Kickin45]

Looks like dirt to me. Probably from the recoil

 

[softcock]

Hello, I was hoping for some advice from the those more experienced than I. I recently acquired a non-refurbished PVS-30. The tube was free of blemishes originally. After 4 shots with a SCAR 17 and it appears that spots have formed (hopefully not/perhaps something else)? I would have thought that a military grade unit, rated for recoil up to 50 BMG would be more robust? I have included the best photos I could take and was hoping for any advice/suggestions/diagnostic help. The optic is a Nightforce NX8 1-8 with FC mil reticle.
Thanks!

-
Did you actually see the spots burn-in the image after you fired a Round ??? .
From what I have seen myself, 'Recoil Image Burns' appeared right in front of your eye on the projected image of the tube immediately after recoil of firing . That larger spot with the lighter shadow around the perimeter looks like a recoil damage Burn . also If so, it will just keep on coming, getting bigger as you shoot more .
.

 

[dbransco]

I’m not sure I’ll describe it correctly, but to me it appeared like spatter upon firing. I thought at the time that perhaps it’s was blow back from the muzzle. I fired and immediately noticed it.

-
Did you actually see the spots burn-in the image after you fired a Round ??? .
From what I have seen myself, 'Recoil Image Burns' appeared right in front of your eye on the projected image of the tube immediately after recoil of firing . That larger spot with the lighter shadow around the perimeter looks like a recoil damage Burn . also If so, it will just keep on coming, getting bigger as you shoot more .
.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

looks like another victim of the SCAR. that looks like recoil damage to me. while any mil clip is rated for heavy recoil some weapon systems (mainly the scar) seem to have a way of destroying optics through recoil. was it very cold ambient temp when you fired it?

if you are within your warranty i would send that back to nv depot and have them inspect it for repair.

 

[goatboy]

Looks like a dead pixel, which would be a failure in one of the light intensifier tubes. If I understand it, the grading breaks the tube into three zones and there is an allowable number of defects for each.

Do I have that correct?

And, more importantly, is there experience as to whether the problem grows?

***edit- I zoomed in the photo and see the "splatter", not sure what's going on.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Looks like a dead pixel, which would be a failure in one of the light intensifier tubes. If I understand it, the grading breaks the tube into three zones and there is an allowable number of defects for each.

Do I have that correct?

And, more importantly, is there experience as to whether the problem grows?

***edit- I zoomed in the photo and see the "splatter", not sure what's going on.

there isnt pixels and there isnt multiple "tubes" in a nv intensifier tube like a thermal. even if it was normal specs and artifacts that would never fly in a clip on. that is tube damage from recoil from mcp hitting the photo cathode more than likely.

 

[goatboy]

there isnt pixels and there isnt multiple "tubes" in a nv intensifier tube like a thermal. even if it was normal specs and artifacts that would never fly in a clip on. that is tube damage from recoil from mcp hitting the photo cathode more than likely.

Sorry, I'm just learning here.

I thought the the MCP, micro channel plate, responsible for electron proliferation was literally constructed of drawn glass tubes, the size and density of which across the plate constitute the functional resolution of the device. A dead tube would be equivalent to a dead pixel in the sense that it does not amplify the electrons. Perhaps I have this wrong. Problem could be on the phospohor screen on the back end of the intensifier array.

Problem could be on the phospohor screen on the back end of the intensifier array.

Does any one have any experience with degrading NV?

 

[softcock]

I’m not sure I’ll describe it correctly, but to me it appeared like spatter upon firing. I thought at the time that perhaps it’s was blow back from the muzzle. I fired and immediately noticed it.

-
ya I seen same thing before happen , you say 'splatter' , Was shooting a raptor d760 one time and saw a burn appear on image instantly right after recoil . To me the burn looked to appear instantly like a growing melting burn about size of a dime in the image .
I knew I was fucked seeing that and knew I needed to overhaul the tube at that point, and I felt pretty bad in the pit of my stomach about it also . pulled the trigger a couple of more times to watch and study the visual happenings on couple more burns .
.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Well I'm certain you've already ruled this out but are you sure the defects are in the PVS30 instead of dust/dirt from the foam shroud landing on the NF objective? I would agree with you that although the Scar is considered tough on optics, the PVS30 should be able to handle it fine.

 

[Strykervet]

I haven't tried mine on the .50 HTI rifle yet so can't say anything about that and recoil from experience. If it sat in one spot for a long time while you were using it, it could have burned in the stars or other lights. A laser.

Have you tried turning it on in total darkness (with caps on, in the bag for instance) for several minutes, then turn it off. Later when you turn it on, they may go away. I did this to my PVS14 with an illuminator on high for a moment and it was sitting on the observation scope. I turned it off, came home, and when I turned it on, it went away completely.

If the recoil did it, I'd call KAC and see if that's under the warranty then. Recoil shouldn't be doing that to this, not if it's rated for .50 BMG rifles, and that HTI has brutal recoil. And FWIW, using it on the SR25 I had zero problems. Still super clear.

You see the spots without the scope? And lens is clean? Just a couple easy ideas worth ruling out.

 

[dbransco]

Well I'm certain you've already ruled this out but are you sure the defects are in the PVS30 instead of dust/dirt from the foam shroud landing on the NF objective? I would agree with you that although the Scar is considered tough on optics, the PVS30 should be able to handle it fine.

Good thought, I had originally thought this as well. Unfortunately after getting back home I cleaned the lens on both the PVS and the NF and the spots are still there.

 

[dbransco]

No, this happened rather fast. I was sighting in the SCAR 17 and NF as it was all new to me. I had a target at 50 yards (was a non reflective piece of plywood). I fired two shots, turned the PVS-30 off and walked to the target. Came back, turned on the PVS and fired 2 shots to confirm zero. After firing the 4 round I noticed the “splatter”. At the time I just figured it was muzzle blast or as mentioned above, maybe fuzz from the KAC “coozy”. I then fired 4 shots at 100 yards and then 2 additional rounds at 50 yards. The spots did not change during the additional shots (at least to my eye).

I haven't tried mine on the .50 HTI rifle yet so can't say anything about that and recoil from experience. If it sat in one spot for a long time while you were using it, it could have burned in the stars or other lights. A laser.

Have you tried turning it on in total darkness (with caps on, in the bag for instance) for several minutes, then turn it off. Later when you turn it on, they may go away. I did this to my PVS14 with an illuminator on high for a moment and it was sitting on the observation scope. I turned it off, came home, and when I turned it on, it went away completely.

If the recoil did it, I'd call KAC and see if that's under the warranty then. Recoil shouldn't be doing that to this, not if it's rated for .50 BMG rifles, and that HTI has brutal recoil. And FWIW, using it on the SR25 I had zero problems. Still super clear.

You see the spots without the scope? And lens is clean? Just a couple easy ideas worth ruling out.

 

[goatboy]

Reach out to KAC

[email protected]

 

[dbransco]

Reach out to KAC

[email protected]

Yes sir, in progress. My heart just dropped when I realized the tube was fouled up. Thanks!

 

[dbransco]

Reach out to KAC

[email protected]

Yes sir, in progress. My heart just dropped when I realized the tube was fouled up. Thanks!

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Recoil spots look like someone thumped ink on the tube when it happens. In most cases the recoil damage occurs really close to dead center of zone 1. If the spot is jet black like ink it’s recoil for sure, if it’s some what translucent it could be debris on the output screen of the tube that jarred loose from recoil. But honestly if it was debris it would have moved after you shot again. Take your palm and slap it around a bit and see if you can make it move around. Turn the unit off when you whoop on it though.

I had a customer buy a brand new KAC pvs-22 back in 2016 with the ultra pinnacle tube. He fired 5 shots from a 6.5 Grendel and it ate the tube. Recoil spotted it bad in zone 1. I sent it back to KAC and they replaced the tube for free. They never asked what rifle it was on. So it happens, it could happen to any tube at any time on any rifle.

Jay

 

[308NHunter]

Ouch

 

[Strykervet]

No, this happened rather fast. I was sighting in the SCAR 17 and NF as it was all new to me. I had a target at 50 yards (was a non reflective piece of plywood). I fired two shots, turned the PVS-30 off and walked to the target. Came back, turned on the PVS and fired 2 shots to confirm zero. After firing the 4 round I noticed the “splatter”. At the time I just figured it was muzzle blast or as mentioned above, maybe fuzz from the KAC “coozy”. I then fired 4 shots at 100 yards and then 2 additional rounds at 50 yards. The spots did not change during the additional shots (at least to my eye).

IF that happened to me I'd definitely be calling KAC and requesting a replacement. Chances are they won't bother fixing it, but I could be wrong. But I'd definitely tell them what you told us, it was fine, you fired it, turned it off, turned it back on, fired again and got the "splatter" of black spots. That's not normal.

Ans when you turn it off in the dark, leave it in the dark, and turn it back on, still there? Yeah, call KAC and don't take no for an answer, demand a shipping label if you have to. Let 'em know you've talked to a lot of other PVS30 owners and they're all saying the same thing, that this isn't supposed to happen. I've got a fairly low number on mine but it's clear as can be and has a great image, especially with an illuminator, These things are and were very nice so yeah, you should be expecting more out of it.

Even if it's recoil, this optic was designed to handle .50BMG recoil and I'm told it'll withstand the DTA HTI but I'm sorta scared to try it. 7.62 from an SR25 has been no problem. I bet having it on the M2HB wouldn't be an issue either. But the bolt .50 bothers me and I won't try it until I'm sure they'll unfuck anything if I mess it up but I'm running out of time. You certainly don't wanna fuck one of these up AFTER the warranty expires, that's a fact!

Good luck! Too bad it wasn't TNVC handling these buybacks.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

you can turn that on in shoe box all you want and it isnt going to fix jack shit. that is recoil damage plain and simple. i believe his unit is out of warranty so calling kac and not taking no for an answer proabably isnt going to get you far.

possibly politely discussing your issue and situation along with what happened would be a better approach eh?

 

[dbransco]

Thanks to everyone for the advise/suggestions! I did try everything mentioned within this post and the spots remained. Pretty confident it’s tube damage. I have made contact with KAC and I believe they are taken care of things. I will update this post once I know more.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

Thanks to everyone for the advise/suggestions! I did try everything mentioned within this post and the spots remained. Pretty confident it’s tube damage. I have made contact with KAC and I believe they are taken care of things. I will update this post once I know more.

As a new SCAR 20S 6.5CM owner and looking at AN/PVS-20 refurbs, I am very interested to know how this turned out. Did you ever get your device repaired? Did they think it was the recoil? If you did get it fixed have you used it on your SCAR again and with what results? Thanks.

 

[dbransco]

As a new SCAR 20S 6.5CM owner and looking at AN/PVS-20 refurbs, I am very interested to know how this turned out. Did you ever get your device repaired? Did they think it was the recoil? If you did get it fixed have you used it on your SCAR again and with what results? Thanks.

Hey, I did end up getting my PVS-30 repaired and I was told that the tube was defective. It was returned once however and I used it with 1 rd on a SR25 and similar spots showed up again. KAC was great to deal with and everything was repaired, but my initial response was “sorry, it’s out of warranty”. I personally wouldn’t risk it on a SCAR 17. I don’t have any experience with a 20S.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

Hey, I did end up getting my PVS-30 repaired and I was told that the tube was defective. It was returned once however and I used it with 1 rd on a SR25 and similar spots showed up again. KAC was great to deal with and everything was repaired, but my initial response was “sorry, it’s out of warranty”. I personally wouldn’t risk it on a SCAR 17. I don’t have any experience with a 20S.

Yikes, for a device built to withstand low light observation and combat engagement on precision platforms that tube sounds like a lemon. Thanks for the update. I will do my research before I pair the two as I don't want to deal with broken NV.

 

[TheHorta]

SCARs are notoriously brutal on optics of all kind -- even day optics. You will want to use an optic that is specifically SCAR-rated, or assume it will be damaged. Someone here learned the hard way with a $20,000 UTC on a SCAR-17.

I burned a few rounds on this before I came to my senses. I just assumed the UTC would be OK on a SCAR-20S. I mean, heck, you can submerge the thing in 60-feet of ocean.

 

[texasleftychef]

SCARs are notoriously brutal on optics of all kind -- even day optics. You will want to use an optic that is specifically SCAR-rated, or assume it will be damaged. Someone here learned the hard way with a $20,000 UTC on a SCAR-17.

I burned a few rounds on this before I came to my senses. I just assumed the UTC would be OK on a SCAR-20S. I mean, heck, you can submerge the thing in 60-feet of ocean.

View attachment 7413172

First thought that comes to mind about you ruining an optic is a quote from a famous poet and a real important person in my formative years, Eric Wright.


I'm rollin' hard, now I'm under control
Then wrapped my 6-4 around a telephone pole
I looked at my car and I said "Oh, brother."
I throw it in the gutter, and go buy another

 

[Haydenegg]

I have a question regarding a pvs 30 I have. I did not remove the AA battery’s before storage and the corrosion at at one of the connections is there anything I can do or anywhere I can send it to get it up and running again. Thank y’all.

 

[shoobe01]

First, and immediately, make sure the acid is neutralized. A bit of vinegar, lemon juice if that's all you have. Lightly flood the area, then drain it.

I would follow up with denatured alcohol or some other degreaser but you can just invert and dry it out. For a couple hours.

If the contacts are not rusted through, then just gently mechanically remove the corrosion. Start with pencil erasers. Just poke it down there, see how it goes. Make sure to clear out that debris when done. Invert and blow (canned air, bulb blower, shop air gently, etc. Don't just spit into it with your mouth) it out.

Since the corrosion may have eaten up the coating and it may oxidize now with normal use, might also be worth getting some deoxit to lightly apply, to assure a good contact in future.

And use Lithium primaries from now on. Better cold wx performance, better output (flatter, so longer use of same available power), and failure is not going to emit acid that destroys the device. Energizer L91s are the standard, I have used them (aside from a few Vartas for reasons) for decades. Work great in this sort of stuff.

 

[TheHorta]

I have a question regarding a pvs 30 I have. I did not remove the AA battery’s before storage and the corrosion at at one of the connections is there anything I can do or anywhere I can send it to get it up and running again. Thank y’all.

That looks OK. As was mentioned, Deoxit will help. Spray about 1/4-1/3 full, cover and let sit. Shake it a bit now and then. After an hour, see if you have a small brush. Qtips work, but can’t scrub. Rinse with Deoxit and/or another electrical contact cleaner.

I’ve had this happen a couple of times. Cleans up fine.

 

[WhereNow&How]

SCARs are notoriously brutal on optics of all kind -- even day optics. You will want to use an optic that is specifically SCAR-rated, or assume it will be damaged. Someone here learned the hard way with a $20,000 UTC on a SCAR-17.

I burned a few rounds on this before I came to my senses. I just assumed the UTC would be OK on a SCAR-20S. I mean, heck, you can submerge the thing in 60-feet of ocean.

View attachment 7413172

Hecque Horta, a gun named SCAR should have been all you needed to know. Kinda like that gal named Dirty Sally.

Steer clear.

 

[Haydenegg]

That looks OK. As was mentioned, Deoxit will help. Spray about 1/4-1/3 full, cover and let sit. Shake it a bit now and then. After an hour, see if you have a small brush. Qtips work, but can’t scrub. Rinse with Deoxit and/or another electrical contact cleaner.

I’ve had this happen a couple of times. Cleans up fine.
[/QUOTE

thank you very much I have been freaking out about it haha

 

[Haydenegg]

I’m still new here learning this format thank you very much for the info I’ve been freaking out about it haha

 

[Tonsofguns]

Years back I had a conversation with one of the engineers at lwts. He mentioned while it should be ok, he’d stay away from scars with their thermals. While they are 50 calibre rated, the recoil impulse of the scar is more damaging than 50 calibre rifles.