NEED HELP- AR10 ISSUES

[XP1K]

I have limited experience with flat wires.

Care to explain more about the longer cycling comment? To me, the travel distance is the same as is the compression. Now, it may be less of a 'actual compression vs max compression' different percent than a typical round wire. Like the tubbs may be a 50% compressed spring at full rearward travel, whereas the round wire may be 85%..

I do not understand, please educate me.

Thank you.

I don't know how it all works but just going by feel the Tubbs spring feels more constant or consistent through the cycling process.

I noticed it the first time I charged mine after installing the spring. You pull the charging handle on a regular spring and tension/force required to get it all the way back goes up. With the flatwire it fells like a more consistent pressure all the way back.

Just ordered two more today. One for a 6.5 creed build that belongs to a friend of mine and I got one to try in an ar15 as well.

PWS factory spring on the right, heavy spring from slash in the middle, Tubbs on the left. You wouldn't think you could get all that stuffed in a carbine length tube but it all goes in there lol.

 

[Quietguy88]

I don't know how it all works but just going by feel the Tubbs spring feels more constant or consistent through the cycling process.

I noticed it the first time I charged mine after installing the spring. You pull the charging handle on a regular spring and tension/force required to get it all the way back goes up. With the flatwire it fells like a more consistent pressure all the way back.

Just ordered two more today. One for a 6.5 creed build that belongs to a friend of mine and I got one to try in an ar15 as well.

View attachment 7939313
PWS factory spring on the right, heavy spring from slash in the middle, Tubbs on the left. You wouldn't think you could get all that stuffed in a carbine length tube but it all goes in there lol.

I have a few flat wires in ar15's. I agree it is more linear. Almost constant. Have yet to try large frame flatwires. The sprinco works pretty good.. but I suppose I could always change. I went to buy a flatwire from tubbs.. then found out the shipping was as much if not more than the spring. Ar15discount had sprinco red on hand, along with the kynshot. Rest is history.

I agree somewhat about the issues with suppressors on gas gun. My 308 would be 4oclock without, 2oclock with. Deadair sandman, using the suparms gas block, venting not restricting. Needless, I put an ultradyne brake on and said forget suppression.

That is with 168 and 175gr matchkings, handloads at that.. 18" barrel with rifle gas.

To the op - you can get plenty of other buffers. I was told about the gucci gucci kynshot. When you reduce the gas to a 0330 ejection pattern, it feels good. However, if you could get a 3.25" long buffer that weighed ~7oz and used a tubbs spring it would probably be just as nice.

Dunno my man. I am busy working. Cannot look right now. Will get back to you later. All I can say is a 5oz buffer is the lowest weight I would ever use in the large frame. With a full weight carrier.

There are tons of functioning products. More than one way to fuck the chicken. Make a choice and stick with it.

I cannot recommend anything JP. Too expensive and under delivered. My dad has a fuckton of JP stuff. I have got to finger fuck and trigger pull about 80% of their wares. My money is better spent elsewhere. Your miles may vary.

Ohyea, I used to be all up on the jp dick.. until I actually used their stuff.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

This the is buffer tube I have.​

V SEVEN 2055 Carbine Buffer Tube A5​

8"

--I am using a Sico Omega


So the setup below should fix my issue?


Hydraulic KynSHOT Recoil Buffer AR-10 Carbine (3.25") (soft shooting than standard resulting in quicker follow up shots on hawgs)

&​

JP .308 carbine buffer spring (suppose to run quiter)

Have you tried the JP spring kit and at least one Tungsten weight? I would start there. or sell the SCS and start over with a whole new buffer spring system.

 

[bfoosh006]

I have limited experience with flat wires.

Care to explain more about the longer cycling comment? To me, the travel distance is the same as is the compression. Now, it may be less of a 'actual compression vs max compression' different percent than a typical round wire. Like the tubbs may be a 50% compressed spring at full rearward travel, whereas the round wire may be 85%..

I do not understand, please educate me.

Thank you.

Cut and paste from another threads response...

@Quietguy88
I use the 308 Tubbs Flatwire in all my large Frame AR's .

6.5CM, .308.... various barrel lengths from 14.5", 16", 18", 20", 22".... various gas system lengths ( middie and rifle length ) various gas port sizes.

With DPMS and Armalite carbine pattern stocks , and A2 rifle length stock setups..

And Adj. GB's on every large frame firearm ( SLR's opened 6 clicks from closed of the available 15 )

And heavy buffers in all stock patterns....( again all with the Tubbs .308 flatwire in all patterns )

DPMS Carbine pattern , KAK 2.5" 5.3oz
Armalite Carbine pattern 3.25" 5.4oz
Rifle A2 KAK 9.3oz 308 length rifle buffer

And All function great.... ( Even with the short PSA / DPMS gas tube in all nine uppers, Lol )


FWIW... I tried all sorts of other recoil springs and buffer weights prior to falling for the 308 Tubbs and heavy for stock setup buffer weights.
Every applicable Sprinco... ( the red and orange seriously slammed the BCG in to battery hard, and caused noticable muzzle dip. )

I even use a 308 Tubbs in my 9MM Colt pattern blowback AR, with 7.5ish oz buffer weight.... that application dramatically changed the "vigorious" cycling of the 9MM blowback. I have said this before... the 308 Tubbs in the 9MM blowback changed cycling from Linda Blair in the Exorcist,.... to a consistent smooth functioning Winnie the Pooh.

AR15 version on a rifle length buffer.

These measurements help for us mechanically minded folk...


Handy chart... ultimately, the 308 Tubbs holds the BCG "closed" milli-seconds longer ( easier on the brass rim during extraction since the chamber pressure is slightly lower from the milli-second delay. While retaining a "sane" open poundage... ( allowing moderate cycling, without slamming )

A2 (old) - 7.6lb closed, 14.5lb open
A2 (new) - 9.1lb closed, 16.7lb open
Tubb Flatwire - 10.5lb closed, 16.3lb open
Tubb .308 Flatwire - 13lb closed, 16.7lb open
SpringCo White ? (standard) - 8.3lb closed, 16.3lb open
SpringCo Red (extra) - 10.5lb closed, 18.4lb open
SpringCo Orange (increased) - 13.9lb closed, 24.8lb open

A few videos , from David Tubbs... he explains better than I can.



David Tubbs weight measurement video..



Believe David Tubbs or not... but for me the Tubbs Flatwires impressed me enough to use them in all my AR's

The only drawback I have heard, and for some people, is, the Flatwires don't smoothly insert or come out like a round wire spring. The difference is negligible to me... but some people have complained about it... so just sayin'

I hope some of this helps.

 

[357magag]

Going to sell the JCS
I could have another $80-100
For 2 weight and spring.

 

[Quietguy88]

This the is buffer tube I have.​

V SEVEN 2055 Carbine Buffer Tube A5​

8"

--I am using a Sico Omega


So the setup below should fix my issue?


Hydraulic KynSHOT Recoil Buffer AR-10 Carbine (3.25") (soft shooting than standard resulting in quicker follow up shots on hawgs)

&​

JP .308 carbine buffer spring (suppose to run quiter)

Hey, did you have a spacer being used with the scs? That v7 receiver extension is nuts. It looks awful nice. It may be above the fcd extension by a measured amount.

Honestly, just get a good spring and 3.25" buffer.

That scs is designed for a 7" buffer tube, you would need a spacer somewhere if I understand correctly. Honestly, I do not mess with jp.

You got a bunch of nice stuff. That kak bcg.. I am pretty sure aero/kak/rca are all the same but different names. They look identical. So, that is a good start.

Looking at the bullet, it looks.like you are running up the feedramp about right. I cannot see any major deformation of the tip. I assume it is a plastic tip in hollowpoint, correct? It definitely is running between the lugs a bit

You definitely are well invested. No sense stepping down to a junk rifle, best to fix yours.

Based upon the comments that you have a 1st gen ar15 scs.. I would suspect changing that will solution just about everything. For a quick fix, an h3 ar15 buffer with a tubbs spring or sprinco red spring would get you rolling. Nothing special, just a simple one. Now the larb unit looks nice. No experience with it. Or, you can go full retard like I did with the hydraulic buffer. It seems to spread the impulse out. I hammer 7.62nato pretty fast out of my rifle and.. still attest that when tuned properly, my issued m4 hits harder. Keep in mind I did not claim has less thrust/push than the m4.. but my shitty carbine colt slaps. That nasty hard plastic stock, the three position receiver extension.. everything that rattles. Absolute junk.

Anyways, yeah. Set the gas back to where it belongs. Run that kak bcg with any cheapo h3 buffer and a real 308 buffer spring. Get her running, make adjustments and then change things one piece at a time.

Also - for the love of all that is holy.. check the backside of your gas key and the lower receiver around the buffer tube threads. Where the bcg slides in and out. If you did not have a 3/4" spacer behind the scs.. you potentially peened the gas key into the buffer tube/receiver.

Looks like a hellacious build. Cannot wait to see when you get it all ironed out.

 

[Quietguy88]

Cut and paste from another threads response...

@Quietguy88
I use the 308 Tubbs Flatwire in all my large Frame AR's .

6.5CM, .308.... various barrel lengths from 14.5", 16", 18", 20", 22".... various gas system lengths ( middie and rifle length ) various gas port sizes.

With DPMS and Armalite carbine pattern stocks , and A2 rifle length stock setups..

And Adj. GB's on every large frame firearm ( SLR's opened 6 clicks from closed of the available 15 )

And heavy buffers in all stock patterns....( again all with the Tubbs .308 flatwire in all patterns )

DPMS Carbine pattern , KAK 2.5" 5.3oz
Armalite Carbine pattern 3.25" 5.4oz
Rifle A2 KAK 9.3oz 308 length rifle buffer

And All function great.... ( Even with the short PSA / DPMS gas tube in all nine uppers, Lol )


FWIW... I tried all sorts of other recoil springs and buffer weights prior to falling for the 308 Tubbs and heavy for stock setup buffer weights.
Every applicable Sprinco... ( the red and orange seriously slammed the BCG in to battery hard, and caused noticable muzzle dip. )

I even use a 308 Tubbs in my 9MM Colt pattern blowback AR, with 7.5ish oz buffer weight.... that application dramatically changed the "vigorious" cycling of the 9MM blowback. I have said this before... the 308 Tubbs in the 9MM blowback changed cycling from Linda Blair in the Exorcist,.... to a consistent smooth functioning Winnie the Pooh.

AR15 version on a rifle length buffer.

View attachment 7939443



These measurements help for us mechanically minded folk...


Handy chart... ultimately, the 308 Tubbs holds the BCG "closed" milli-seconds longer ( easier on the brass rim during extraction since the chamber pressure is slightly lower from the milli-second delay. While retaining a "sane" open poundage... ( allowing moderate cycling, without slamming )

A2 (old) - 7.6lb closed, 14.5lb open
A2 (new) - 9.1lb closed, 16.7lb open
Tubb Flatwire - 10.5lb closed, 16.3lb open
Tubb .308 Flatwire - 13lb closed, 16.7lb open
SpringCo White ? (standard) - 8.3lb closed, 16.3lb open
SpringCo Red (extra) - 10.5lb closed, 18.4lb open
SpringCo Orange (increased) - 13.9lb closed, 24.8lb open

A few videos , from David Tubbs... he explains better than I can.



David Tubbs weight measurement video..



Believe David Tubbs or not... but for me the Tubbs Flatwires impressed me enough to use them in all my AR's

The only drawback I have heard, and for some people, is, the Flatwires don't smoothly insert or come out like a round wire spring. The difference is negligible to me... but some people have complained about it... so just sayin'

I hope some of this helps.

Yupyup. Tracking. I have seen his videos and that spring tension chart. Guess you all are talking me into buying a few. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[bfoosh006]

Yupyup. Tracking. I have seen his videos and that spring tension chart. Guess you all are talking me into buying a few. Appreciate the feedback.

FWIW... LaRue, Midway, Brownells sells them as well as David Tubbs... so you can offset the silly single shipping costs.

Given one costs about as much as a box of Match Grade 308... I would do it as well.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm sure others will chime in and say their mid length 18" works great with their sico omega or whatever but speaking from personal experience those setups have run like crap for me.

That's because a lot of people think if a gun is working it's also working great. That a gun can go bang everytime and still run like shit never occured to them.

 

[357magag]

Yes I had a spacer behind the SCS.
Instead of investing more into the SCS business converting to tungsten weights.
Just sold the JP SCS and the JP LOMOS bcg here on the Hide at $450 for the pair.

Yall all sold me on the good stuff.
Ordered the 3.25" AR10 Hydraulic buffer and AR15 High Power Hydraulic buffer for my 6.8 pistol.
And Tubbs springs for each of them also.

Stand by for report.


***THANKS TO ALL THAT HAVE CHIMMED IN TO ASSIST WITH SOUND ADVICE*****

 

[padom]

A lot of misinformation in here....I can't tell you how many large frame gassers I've built 50-60+ now and more than half with JP LMOS, JP SCS Heavy w/spring kit and SLA AGB, Mega receivers, custom Krieger, Bartlein and Rock Creek barrels with JP QPQ honed barrel extensions.

Not 1 of them had ANY feeding, ejecting or accuracy issues. None of them need to run dripping wet to "break in"...

It comes down to knowing what parts to use and how to tune a large frame gassers...

Not a damn thing wrong with LMOS AND JP SCS... yes, the AR10 SCS come with a Spacer for rifle length tubes...Not a damn thing wrong with it.

If running suppressed you want the right SCS tune...it is not a drop in and go....SCS Heavy with spring kit at a minimum...I use the yellow spring and 2 tungsten weights.

Now, you can get a RCA full mass BCG (one of my favorite) and use a different tune in the SCS and this is a tad better setup for 100% suppressed shoot NOT for reliability but easier on your brass....

I have a second upper for my large frame gasser that I've been running for the last 2 years now that used a full mass RCA BCG with their adjustable gas key and it's awesome... I won't use an AGB ever again on any gasser. So easy, fast and no locked set screws or dicking around under the handguard

The LMOS/SCS setup when properly tuned is much softer shooting than a full mass BCG and standard buffer

 

[Earnhardt]

padom, are all of your large frame ARs set up with rifle length buffer tubes?
Thanks

 

[padom]

padom, are all of your large frame ARs set up with rifle length buffer tubes?
Thanks

Yes... every one. Never built one without a rifle length tube

To elaborate...my first ever large frame gasser was a factory POF P308 NP3 edition a long time ago...that gun came with a carbine tube...it had problems running out the gate.. POF sent me different springs and buffers and finally got it running. After that I replaced everything with a proper rifle length tube and buffer setup and that thing ran like a Swiss watch and was smooth and accurate.

Thats why I always used a rifle length tube after that

 

[Earnhardt]

Yes... every one. Never built one without a rifle length tube

To elaborate...my first ever large frame gasser was a factory POF P308 NP3 edition a long time ago...that gun came with a carbine tube...it had problems running out the gate.. POF sent me different springs and buffers and finally got it running. After that I replaced everything with a proper rifle length tube and buffer setup and that thing ran like a Swiss watch and was smooth and accurate.

Thats why I always used a rifle length tube after that

Ya, me too...

I think this "help me" thread will continue on until he converts to a rifle buffer tube/buffer and adj gas block

 

[TonyTheTiger]

You guys really think rifle buffer systems are a necessity on large frames? That's pretty disappointing if so, one more thing keeping me away from the big guns.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I also think the barrel may be the issue. I have a very similar build using several of the same components:
ZEV Matched Receiver Set
JP Silent Spring
JP LMOS BCG
Superlative Arms adjustable gas block

But I'm using a 22" JP 6.5 CM barrel with an XL gas system.

 

[padom]

You guys really think rifle buffer systems are a necessity on large frames? That's pretty disappointing if so, one more thing keeping me away from the big guns.

Do I think it's a necessity?? No... is it easy button for success for people building their first large frame gassers to mitigate issues out of the gate? Absolutely

As I stated in my previous post, the right buffer/spring combo and you can use a carbine tube...but it's not a drop in and go scenario in my experience...

 

[wade2big]

You guys really think rifle buffer systems are a necessity on large frames? That's pretty disappointing if so, one more thing keeping me away from the big guns.

I have assembled a few large frames at this point. All this lighweight shit and silent capture crap is making it complicated for many. It is not. A standard rifle receiver extension, buffer and spring with a Toolcraft BCG (which headspaces to wilson, seekins, faxon, and proof barrels so far) or any other BCG that will is the easy button. Next add the gas regulating component of your choice. An adjustable gasblock is what I use. Add a barrel with the proper gas port location and you are done. You now have a reliable rifle.

If you want a collapsable stock, I’ve done that as well. Purchase a Vltor RE-A5 receiver extension and a H3 buffer and use a rifle length spring. The rest of what Inalready mentioned applies. You now have a reliable rifle.

The only things to pay attention to is that some barrel manufacturers use a longer than AR15 rifle length gas port location but still call it rifle length. You must use a 3/4” longer gas tube readily available at Fulton Armory. If you are using a 6.5 creedmoor barrel at 20” or above a plus 2 gas is a necessity. 18” a plus one.

Play with the gucci stuff after you get the rifle running with the normal everyday parts. have you noticed that all the “my ar10 doesn’t work” threads use the gucci shit with people that don’t know how to properly use it unlike the guys such as @padom that do.

 

[padom]

Play with the gucci stuff after you get the rifle running with the normal everyday parts. have you noticed that all the “my ar10 doesn’t work” threads use the gucci shit with people that don’t know how to properly use it unlike the guys such as @padom that do.

Too many think building a large frame gasser is like throwing together an AR15....its not... knowing what parts play nice together and how to properly tune them is key. I am very picky about barrel extensions...most out there are razor sharp and have nasty edges that fuck with feeding, ejection and unnecessarily beat the shit out of brass...gouges out of shoulders and necks...long deep grooves down the case body...


This can all be smoothed out and/or fixed by either using a QPQ honed and polished JP extension on your custom barrels or by removing your barrels and using a cratex wheel on a dremel to hit thr edges and back of lugs to smooth them out....

Yes, going with standard parts will start you out with a functioning rifle for sure but really smoothing it out and tuning the lock time so your not ripping brass out of a chamber before that brass shrinks back down is where using the mentioned gucci parts to tune it really shine

JP Rifles

I prefer these impregnated polishing wheels personally


Amazon product ASIN B015PK3DKI

 

[wade2big]

Yes... every one. Never built one without a rifle length tube

To elaborate...my first ever large frame gasser was a factory POF P308 NP3 edition a long time ago...that gun came with a carbine tube...it had problems running out the gate.. POF sent me different springs and buffers and finally got it running. After that I replaced everything with a proper rifle length tube and buffer setup and that thing ran like a Swiss watch and was smooth and accurate.

Thats why I always used a rifle length tube after that

What’s the difference of using a rifle extension and a scs with a spacer or using a shorter receiver extension without it? Does the SCS without a spacer fit the Armalite/Vltor length extension?

The one that doesn’t make sense to me is the carbine length extension with the tiny and way to light 2.5” or so buffer.

 

[wade2big]

Too many think building a large frame gasser is like throwing together an AR15....its not... knowing what parts play nice together and how to properly tune them is key. I am very picky about barrel extensions...most out there are razor sharp and have nasty edges that fuck with feeding, ejection and unnecessarily best the shit out of brass...gouges out of shoulders and necks...long deep grooves down the case body...

This can all be smoothed out and/or fixed by either using a QPQ honed and polished JP extension on your custom barrels or by removing your barrels and using a cratex wheel on a dremel to hit thr edges and back of lugs to smooth them out....

JP Rifles

I prefer these impregnated polishing wheels personally


Amazon product ASIN B015PK3DKI

I run into that problem with a Rainer ultramatch barrel. It sliced and gouged the necks of the brass making them trash. All others have played nice with the brass. The seekins barrel and extension could use some polishing as it’s a bit rough on case necks. I may pick up what you just recommended to smooth it out a bit.

The problem that got me was the rifle length faxon .308 barrel that needed the 3/4” longer gastube. I was aware this discrepancy existed and caught it when assembling.

 

[padom]

I run into that problem with a Rainer ultramatch barrel. It sliced and gouged the necks of the brass making them trash. All others have played nice with the brass. The seekins barrel and extension could use some polishing as it’s a bit rough on case necks.

I had problems with their 6.5cm Ultramatch Mod2 barrels they sent me for review with the extension and feed cone....worked with their smith that makes their barrels to fix that issue and what was sent back to me was better from a feed cone standpoint....barrel extensions are still razor sharp...I wish they spent 2min polishing them before TiN coating....would make a world of difference

 

[wade2big]

I had problems with their 6.5cm Ultramatch Mod2 barrels they sent me for review with the extension and feed cone....worked with their smith that makes their barrels to fix that issue and what was sent back to me was better from a feed cone standpoint....barrel extensions are still razor sharp...I wish they spent 2min polishing them before TiN coating....would make a world of difference

As much as they cost you would think they would. Hell the cheap Faxon barrel used on my blaster .308 didn’t do this. The ultralight barrels are nice looking and come in lighter than the advertised weight by a good bit although I can’t remember the weight. Much lighter than the Proof barrels due to the heavy fluting they use and mine was a shooter. I wouldn’t buy another one over a proof barrel that comes in at the same price point.

 

[bigjake83]

You guys really think rifle buffer systems are a necessity on large frames? That's pretty disappointing if so, one more thing keeping me away from the big guns.

No rifle length tubes are Not essential at all, especially when running a SCS, the travel is the exact same. When running a SCS on a rifling tube you have to install the spacer but the bolt carrier group is still traveling the same distance and the spring compression is the exact same. When running the different style conventional springs and buffers is when buffer tube length become an issue.

 

[bigjake83]

Does the SCS without a spacer fit the Armalite/Vltor length extension?

When running those Extensions you just have to take a proper measurement and cut the spacer to fit.

 

[bigjake83]

I had problems with their 6.5cm Ultramatch Mod2 barrels they sent me for review with the extension and feed cone....worked with their smith that makes their barrels to fix that issue and what was sent back to me was better from a feed cone standpoint....barrel extensions are still razor sharp...I wish they spent 2min polishing them before TiN coating....would make a world of difference

I've been running JP extension for years now, but have switched about a year ago to the new ones CLE is using, they're similar to the ones proof research uses with the deep feed system and are relieved at critical areas for smoother feeding. I still polish them before I send them in to the Smith.

I'll shoot you a photo of the new ones I got coming from CLE.

They're called Triune

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I have the SCS without a spacer in a standard carbine tube on mine. If the Vltor tube is longer, then no, you'll need a spacer.

 

[padom]

I've been running JP extension for years now, but have switched about a year ago to the new ones CLE is using, they're similar to the ones proof research uses with the deep feed system and are relieved at critical areas for smoother feeding. I still polish them before I send them in to the Smith.

I'll shoot you a photo of the new ones I got coming from CLE.

They're called Triune

I know Keystone has been using the Lilja extensions since BAT stopped making extensions... They sent me one to inspect. They are more refined/not as sharp as those razor sharp BAT extensions but still not JP smooth....

 

[mtrmn]

I have assembled a few large frames at this point. All this lighweight shit and silent capture crap is making it complicated for many. It is not. A standard rifle receiver extension, buffer and spring with a Toolcraft BCG (which headspaces to wilson, seekins, faxon, and proof barrels so far) or any other BCG that will is the easy button. Next add the gas regulating component of your choice. An adjustable gasblock is what I use. Add a barrel with the proper gas port location and you are done. You now have a reliable rifle.

If you want a collapsable stock, I’ve done that as well. Purchase a Vltor RE-A5 receiver extension and a H3 buffer and use a rifle length spring. The rest of what Inalready mentioned applies. You now have a reliable rifle.

The only things to pay attention to is that some barrel manufacturers use a longer than AR15 rifle length gas port location but still call it rifle length. You must use a 3/4” longer gas tube readily available at Fulton Armory. If you are using a 6.5 creedmoor barrel at 20” or above a plus 2 gas is a necessity. 18” a plus one.

Play with the gucci stuff after you get the rifle running with the normal everyday parts. have you noticed that all the “my ar10 doesn’t work” threads use the gucci shit with people that don’t know how to properly use it unlike the guys such as @padom that do.

100% agreed on the red text.
Also, on a lot of 16" barrels the gas port is too far forward to work with the standard "midlength" gas tube that they seem to expect you to use. That midlength tube is intended for a small frame AR15 and is about 5/16" too short. The Armalite "carbine length" ar10 gas tube is what you need, and it also is bent differently to achieve the proper height above the bore centerline.

 

[sinister]

I know Keystone has been using the Lilja extensions since BAT stopped making extensions... They sent me one to inspect. They are more refined/not as sharp as those razor sharp BAT extensions but still not JP smooth....

Dang -- when did that happen?!

 

[Quietguy88]

Dang -- when did that happen?!

years ago

 

[Quietguy88]

I dislike the SCS because of the cost. With my experience using it, which over a dozen or so weapons.. It was not worth the time and effort, let alone expense. Too much more can be done by spring, buffer selection and adjusting gas. In a tuner's world with handloads.. Sure, it has to offer a benefit over something less adjustable. How much? That is formula 1 racing returns. every 0.1% a racer can find matters..

I have used the RCA adjustable key - good product and works well for FSB builds. Would I choose that over an adjustable gas block when not forced to use the front sight block? negative. The key may reduce gas into just the carrier, which is a good thing.. also allows full gas into the upper. Which, when suppressed... If you know, you know.

I also know well enough to not butt heads with a supermod.. However, some of your views are equally unsound as I suppose some of mine are. Thankfully, there are too damn many parts out there for anyone's good. Like the King Burger, Red Head Girl and those darn golden arcs.. Pick the one you like.

Regardless - Rifle length tubes are easy; but if a person builds right.. the a5/sr25/ar10 carbine tube(7.75"), h3 buffer and a good spring.. done. Too easy. Oh, it has the same 'reciprocating weight' as the rifle buffer.

I read someone mentioning the difference of tube lengths - The biggest misunderstanding about the AR is that the BCG still travels the same distance. **when properly specced** Beyond arguing buffer mass and higher workings of spring design.. There really is no purpose to the rifle tube. Even then, the buffer can be made plenty heavy.

 

[Kinz]

Sick and Tired of sneaking up on hawgs and getting 1 shot. Happened again tonight.
My 9yr old son felt so bad for me he offered to let me shoot his AR pistol.

Who or what company is an expert AR Gunsmith that I can send my AR10 to make it run like a sewing machine?

It doesn't want to feed smoothly
Scratches up the brass upon feeding
Doesn't want to lock up bolt in the chamber without it being oiled to heck.

*have magpul and lancer mags

Have a ton of money tied up in AR10 6.5CM Build.
Mega Matched Receiver Set
BSF CF 16.5"
JP Silent Spring
Trigger Tech Diamond
JP LMOS BCG
Ti misc parts
Superlative Arms adjustable gas block
Wilson Combat handguard

Are you using a carbine length or rifle length buffer? AR10’a require a carbine length buffer system to properly feed ammo. If that’s the issue it’s a relatively inexpensive fix that you can do without a gunsmith.

 

[bigjake83]

This thread is pure entertainment at this point.

Oh!!! I would like to admit I was wrong about the Gen1 SCS the small frame SCS had 3 weights and the large frame had only two, so the OP did have a correct SCS just a dated version.

 

[Danajm]

Send it to Trajectory Arms, crack a beer, and write them a check to worry about making it run...

 

[n2ishun]

I've run this w/o any issues at all.
Full mass BCG.
It's cheap and all in the package....done deal.

Kaw Valley Precision AR-10 6pos Mil-Spec Carbine Stock Hardware Kit w/ KVP 5.6oz Buffer

Kaw Valley Precision AR-10 6pos Mil-Spec Carbine Stock Hardware Kit w/ KVP 5.6oz Buffer

www.joeboboutfitters.com

 

[Quietguy88]

This thread is pure entertainment at this point.

Oh!!! I would like to admit I was wrong about the Gen1 SCS the small frame SCS had 3 weights and the large frame had only two, so the OP did have a correct SCS just a dated version.

I know jack shit about those SCS other than.. expensive, complicated and.. they are all now in boxes under a bench. Appreciate your knowledge about the variances. Although, I suppose it is a decent design on paper. The weights can be heavier due to their position versus the spring and that guide rod should all but eliminate carrier tilt. Which....

Yes, it is quite a laugh. I have seen so many things.. I suppose the admin would put a pinned thread up top, with basic measurements. So others may self-help. With a series of probability on causes. Such as - low reciprocating weight being #1. Feed ramps being #2. Gas system not installed correctly as #3...

I remember one time, I had a fellow bring me a very nice build. Turns out - his gas tube was not aligning properly in the gas block... Caused an undergassed issue. I rechecked that thing like three times for placement.. Before I pulled it off and looked through the gasblock port and saw the gastube was either machined out of spec, or was one of those fancy purposely offset hole gasetubes. Regardless, I ran a 1/8" drill bit and punched her true. Gas was adjusted properly and she ran like a choochoo machine.

**Edit**

I would say feedramps being #2 is mostly critical for the 6mm and 6.5mm calibers running high BC bullets. As an alibi. For the Lord's rifle caliber, well.. Feedramps are probably at the bottom of list.

 

[j-huskey]

After all said and done.....
I've related the story several times b4 about an early ar10, mil match ammo, lclr, and a specific lot of fgmm. And how sed ar was overgassed from hell. And how the gunsmith told me I was full of shit.
The bolt was smearing the brass and the chips were locking the ejector in the hole. Not to mention bolt travel was so fast the mag spring couldn't pop a round up fast enough.
I had an in with AMU then (thank you Sinister), the sniper school, and the US Customs shop in building 4 on Benning. They trouble shot the rifle and we moved the gas block enough to reduce the gas until the rifle worked...
Back to the gunsmith, who argued till hell froze, UNTIL, I played the AMU/sniper school card. He didn't like it, but, he fixed the AR10 like AMU said to fix it. One thing was plug and redrill the gas hole smaller.
Back in those days we didn't have all the fancy parts available that are mentioned in the previous two pages.....

For 20 years now, that AR10 ran like a sewing machine as a LE daily carry rifle... ZERO issues. It went through 4 different lots of fgmm, 3-4 different lots of lclr.

I built two more as backup to old faithful, and they ran perfectly reliable for me to carry as a daily life saver.
I rolled one of those two over into a night pig gun and changed ammo. I had to add an adjustable gas block. 8 years later, still sewing machine smooth.

By now, I THINK I know my shit on ar10's. I've build several more, zero issues, sticking with 30hate...
Built a 7-08. No problem again.

Sooo..... 6.5 creedmore becomes popular, and my building skills are now in serious question much like what was described in the last two pages. I leave that alone. One of my pig hunters goes through 4 variants on a 6.5, dumping them down to DD. it's running OK.
Another hunter has a 6.5 in a Palmetto Armory. That's two I know that run right.

And my 308's....
Where am I going with this you ask....
The American Sniper Assn recommended going with Hornady Tap ELDM over FGMM. So.......

The department switched in the bolt guns. 5 lots shot 5 different average velocities. I did not like this at all.
Shooting any of these lots in old reliable was a return to the beginning nightmare of smeared brass and locked up ejector..

Thinking I was smart enough to fix it, I bought an adjustable gas block. Even closed off, a couple of gas blocks were still overgassed. Yes. Closed, overgassed...
I bought two different super heavy buffers. No joy. Different combinations of buffer and gas blocks, no joy. This rocked on over a year....
Absolutely nothing I've tried works. I can put Old reliable back with all std parts, fixed GB, and std buffer, and it runs fgmm, lclr, and some hunting ammo, no problem. I can add a buffer or agb, or any combo, and every ammo EXCEPT Hornady Tap ELDM runs perfect.
Running a seekins agb and a heavy buffer and can/no can, old reliable is a joy to shoot. Zero issues..

Until I add the Hornady ammo. Then it goes to shit.

Apparently I was not the only person to report this to Hornady who created an AR version of TapEldm.... to fix the obscene overgas over pressure issue.

No, I haven't bought any to try, yet, my frustration level isn't back up to dealing with that shit yet.

How does this factor in to this topic here on 6.5's ???
I mentioned the pig hunters with the suicide 6.5 ar's....
Our frustration levels have found we can make most of them run combining agb, buffers, and rifle gas systems, UNTIL we hit a high pressure lot of ammo that's fine in a bolt rifle.... but not worth a fuck in a gas gun.

50 years ago, or more, the creators of the m16 figured out some powders were not agreeable with the m16. 30 years ago, Every reloading manual had a bolt action AND a gas gun section in 223..

This is now very visible in the different types and lots of commercial 6.5 creedmore ammo being tried in ar10's.

Some of you will find this out the hard way, nothing you try will make your ar10 run, at all with xx ammo...
Some of you will get lucky.

Best to you all.

 

[357magag]

Cycling and Feeding Perfectly now.
And yes even suppressed
With yall advice I made these 2 changes.

TUBBS Spring
Kynshot Hydraulic AR10 Buffer

Liked this setup so much I ordered Tubbs Spring and Kynshot High Pressure AR15 Hydraulic buffer for my 6.8 SPC pistol.


Thanks again to my Brothers on the Hide for all your advice.

 

[Thorbeast]

Cycling and Feeding Perfectly now.
And yes even suppressed
With yall advice I made these 2 changes.

TUBBS Spring
Kynshot Hydraulic AR10 Buffer

Liked this setup so much I ordered Tubbs Spring and Kynshot High Pressure AR15 Hydraulic buffer for my 6.8 SPC pistol.


Thanks again to my Brothers on the Hide for all your advice.

Awesome! It's nice to see a happy ending, thanks for coming back and giving us a resolution. I feel like a large number of topics just die without closure.

 

[XP1K]

Got me wanting to try a kynshot buffer now. Mine ran good last time out. First time in a long time that's happened. I should probably just be happy but I'm always wanting to try something different. I am my own worst enemy.

 

[bigjake83]

Awesome! It's nice to see a happy ending, thanks for coming back and giving us a resolution. I feel like a large number of topics just die without closure.

That's because most people just get discouraged and sell their shit off, making it someone else's problem.

 

[j-huskey]

Any of the more knowledgeable guys here know who besides Tubb makes a carrier weight system ?

 

[rpoL98]

Any of the more knowledgeable guys here know who besides Tubb makes a carrier weight system ?

Slash's Heavy Buffers. and for the 308 carbine short 2.5" 5.3oz buffer, there's KAK, and even Primary Arms Expo and Midway AR-Stoner getting in on the act. probably a few others also.

ETA: didn't know you guys were talking about a whiz-bang high-tech proprietary system. Please excuse my ignorance.

 

[j-huskey]

Slash's Heavy Buffers. and for the 308 carbine short 2.5" 5.3oz buffer, there's KAK, and even Primary Arms Expo and Midway AR-Stoner getting in on the act. probably a few others also.

I've got the heavy buffers. Done a lot with slash buffers in full auto m16 variants. I love slash buffers.
And the heavy Kak and XH work with the 308 "difficult" ammo lots except the Hornady ELDM 168. In an earlier post here, I posted Hornady created an AR version of the ammo, that I had yet to try.

The DD I spoke of earlier has a carrier weight in it, when it came to us from DD. it belongs to one of my guys, and I haven't called DD yet to find our. That's next on the list.

Best to yall.

 

[Quietguy88]

Any of the more knowledgeable guys here know who besides Tubb makes a carrier weight system ?

I thought the CWS was discontinued some time ago. Unless it was brought back.

I have contemplated a 6.5oz heavy buffer and tubb spring.. but, the kynshot is still working.

Glad you ironed everything out. Enjoy shooting.

 

[bfoosh006]

Any of the more knowledgeable guys here know who besides Tubb makes a carrier weight system ?

I haven't seen any other "drop in" CWS versions over all these years. I even asked David Tubbs if he could make a limited run again, and he said not likely.

For those of us here not familiar with the CWS...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct.../cwsbroc.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2GEEorYbOBjeugwcQHAI1E

 

[j-huskey]

I haven't seen any other "drop in" CWS versions over all these years. I even asked David Tubbs if he could make a limited run again, and he said not likely.

For those of us here not familiar with the CWS...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwizt9HO7Yf6AhW_IDQIHexEBUIQFnoECAsQAQ&url=https://www.davidtubb.com/catalog/view/theme/davidtubb/pdf/product_information/cwsbroc.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2GEEorYbOBjeugwcQHAI1E

Thank you !

 

[msgriff]

Any of the more knowledgeable guys here know who besides Tubb makes a carrier weight system ?

You can use 9mm carrier weights, but you have to drill a hole in the carrier for the pin.
KAK carrier weight

 

[j-huskey]

You can use 9mm carrier weights, but you have to drill a hole in the carrier for the pin.
KAK carrier weight

Thank you !!