Maggie’s Need help finding a Legal Term

[Hobo Hilton]

A scenario:

A older man walks out in his driveway to pick up his morning newspaper. As he opens the door he witnesses a young man walking down the side walk. The young man picks up the newspaper and continues to walk. The older man walks briskly and verbally stops the young man. (No contact).. The older man says "Hey, that's my newspaper"... The young man gives him some lip (aggressive but not threatening), drops the news paper and walks off. The older man picks up his news paper and returns to his house.

5 minutes later a very sharp, business like County Deputy arrives at the older man's house. He explains that he received a call of the older man threatening a young man walking on the side walk.

What is the legal term for the actions taken by the young man?

Thanks,

Hobo

 

[Skunk]

Being a Bitch

 

[Jigstick]

Filing a false report?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Do you know for sure the young man took the legal action or a neighbor that only seen the last half of the incident?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[mountainman308]

Two disclaimers: I am not a lawyer and laws vary by state.
That being said, taking the paper might qualify as petty theft or a related charge. If the young man reported that you were harassing him, and you weren’t, it could be filing a false report.

 

[MCHOG]

I would call it trespass and theft.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Hi,

Do you know for sure the young man took the legal action or a neighbor that only seen the last half of the incident?

Sincerely,
Theis

In this scenario, the Deputy stated the young man had filed the complaint. Great question... Thank You

 

[diverdon]

Seems similar to SWATTING, Calling the police to get them to go do something you don't have the balls to do yourself. If you are in Minneapolis most likely the responding officer will murder someone for you.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

This discussion has come up recently in neighborhood circles where our mail boxes are a long way's away on a rural road. In talking with our mail delivery person, he verified that thefts of packages has sky rocketed recently. I lost a package recently moments after the carrier logged in on tracking that the package was delivered to the mail box. 10 minutes later it was gone.... Very large packages are put in a plastic bag and hung on the mail box. In fact, it's to the point of the Local Sheriff's Department giving him decoy packages with tracking devices in them... The question has arisen of what should a resident do if they go to pick up mail and the thieves are right there, in broad daylight.

 

[judgedelta]

According to the OP above, the deputy stated that "a call had been received" that the older man had threatened the young man on the sidewalk. I don't think that this rises to the level of filing a false report. The deputy was probably just trying to make sure that the situation doesn't escalate, and that the "old man" isn't some hot head that rides a motorcycle, especially a Hardly...

 

[Slash0311]

Im law enforcement...

The legal term would be exactly what you said "threats". Thats what your example says the young man called about. Now with that said, there is always two sides to every issue. What the old man did seems benign enough to him but the young man could have felt threatened. (Even though his actions lead to the interaction to start) It would be up to the officer to sort it out and very rarely do interactions go as your example. Words are always exchanged and are usually heated. Im sure the old man didn't just say "excuse me young man. You seem to have picked up my newspaper"

As to your second post about theft of packages, its a property crime. Unless you can catch someone with your property and can prove it's yours, there isn't much you can do except file a report. Unfortunately, if you confront the thief, you could be painted as the aggressor pushing things. (Defense for the young man in your example... "this young man was walking home from church camp and mistakenly thought the paper was discarded" and guess who has to prove otherwise)

Welcome to a world where criminals have more rights than the law abiding citizen.

 

[BigDaddy0381]

Is it a federal crime if take out of or off a mail box?

 

[918v]

Would an objectively reasonable person feel threatened under these circumstances? No.

 

[Slash0311]

I agree. But you would be amazed what people call in over.

 

[supercorndogs]

I saw a police report one day, someone called the police because, someone in the neighborhood was whistling loudly.

 

[Slash0311]

Hmmm.. let's see. Odd things Ive been sent on.

Guy called in because his neighbor was mowing and grass clippings were discharging onto caller's yard.

Guy called because neighbor's car was blocking his mailbox. (Seems like a good reason to call) I arrive and find out two company had dropped neighbor's car after heavy front end wreck. Vehicle owner was having it moved that afternoon after husband arrived home. (How about checking on your damn neighbor??)

Snake in a garage.

These are some of my greatest hits that come to mind.

 

[918v]

I agree. But you would be amazed what people call in over.

Where I live cops don’t roll out for shit like that. They actually don’t roll out for vehicle burgs either come to think of it, or trespassing. Fucken lames.

 

[Slash0311]

If we get a call for service, we go.

Oh!! Forgot to mention getting sent to a house for a dog choking on a bone... band q cat with it's head stuck in a fence.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Is it a federal crime if take out of or off a mail box?

I guess we will have to turn that question over to "Myth Busters"... Seems there were many Federal Laws related to the US Mail....

 

[Skunk]

Is it a federal crime if take out of or off a mail box?

There is probably a Statute that covers it, but without significant financial loss it wouldn't get much of a look. And, in my experience, Postal Inspectors have never been....aggressive.

 

[lash]

Guy called because neighbor's car was blocking his mailbox. (Seems like a good reason to call) I arrive and find out two company had dropped neighbor's car after heavy front end wreck. Vehicle owner was having it moved that afternoon after husband arrived home. (How about checking on your damn neighbor??)

My son’s car was hit and he had it towed and left on my front yard for the insurance company to assess and remove (per their instructions). It wasn’t 24 hours before somebody reported it to police. I can’t imagine why, since it was on my yard, well away from the road, there’s no HOA where I live and it wasn’t blocking any visual line. Just nosy busybody people with nothing better to do with their lives than to create drama by being assholes to their neighbors.

 

[mountainman308]

There is probably a Statute that covers it, but without significant financial loss it wouldn't get much of a look. And, in my experience, Postal Inspectors have never been....aggressive.

Credit where credit is due. They do a lot of counter-child exploitation work that doesn’t get much press. I’m rarely one to cheer for the postal service, but there are exceptions.

 

[Slash0311]

There is probably a Statute that covers it, but without significant financial loss it wouldn't get much of a look. And, in my experience, Postal Inspectors have never been....aggressive.

It is a federal crime... but here's the problem. Lets say I order Lowlights book from Amazon. It arrives by USPS and is promptly stolen. So I call the local police and make a report. A crime has been committed. Unless I or the local police making the report notify the USPS Postal Inspectors, they never know.

But then, just like all police, time is limited with the many cases on the desk. Unless they get lucky or can tie several thefts together (because usually they're committing several thefts) my example of my copy of LLs book is low on the priority list.

Plus, Im not sure how or if federal laws would cover packages being delivered by say UPS or FEDEx for example.

 

[Kickin45]

Sounds like petty theft, possible trespassing, filing a false report.
some states have laws in place to protect seniors as well
I’m not a lawyer and have no legal training.
check state laws

 

[1J04]

lol

https://www.waheagle.com/story/2020/05/28/sheriffs-report/sheriffs-report-may-28-2020/17866.html

 

[Skunk]

Plus, Im not sure how or if federal laws would cover packages being delivered by say UPS or FEDEx for example.

Slash,

Regardless of carrier, if the pkg is shipped in, or affecting, "interstate or foreign commerce," it would fall under Federal jurisdiction. Even if the pkg itself didn't cross state lines, but the money transfer was in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, it would again fall under Federal jurisdiction.

If the Feds have the time or inclination to work a crime, they usually can find a way.

 

[mcfred]

what should a resident do if they go to pick up mail and the thieves are right there, in broad daylight

Not a word said, just two barrels of rock salt, collect your property and go on about your business.

 

[Bullfrog08]

Get ur son, follow him in your truck with your shot gun. Block him in and when he charges shoot him three times. Have neighbor follow in car and record. Do not attempt if thief is black.

 

[918v]

Slash,

Regardless of carrier, if the pkg is shipped in, or affecting, "interstate or foreign commerce," it would fall under Federal jurisdiction. Even if the pkg itself didn't cross state lines, but the money transfer was in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, it would again fall under Federal jurisdiction.

If the Feds have the time or inclination to work a crime, they usually can find a way.

The feds wont investigate package thefts.

 

[Skunk]

Agreed.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

lol

https://www.waheagle.com/story/2020/05/28/sheriffs-report/sheriffs-report-may-28-2020/17866.html

Yep, yep, yep..... who they going to call when the situation get's really bad and the phone services stop working?

 

[John_in_WYO]

Usually the scenarios falls under “Falsely Reporting a Crime”.
Check your state/city statutes.

 

[hankpac]

I don't know what you call it, but the young fellow has learned or been taught that in any event, be the first person to call in a complaint, which puts the old guy, the victim in this case, on the defensive. It is a tactical move, that was mentioned in a CC class. "Even if you are in the right, if the other party calls first, his story gets told first, and YOU are the suspect".

 

[500grains]

The civil side of theft is called conversion.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Do you have a backhoe handy?

 

[918v]

The civil side of theft is called conversion.

No it isn’t. Theft is theft both civil and criminal. Theft is the wrongful taking and carrying away of personal property with the intent to permanently deprive the owner thereof. It’s like when a shit bag steals your car.

Conversion is when someone has legal possession of another’s property and uses it without his permission to generate income. It’s like you store your truck on my property with my permission, but I decide to drive your truck without your knowledge to work or for work or whatever.

 

[500grains]

No it isn’t. Theft is theft both civil and criminal. Theft is the wrongful taking and carrying away of personal property with the intent to permanently deprive the owner thereof. It’s like when a shit bag steals your car.

Conversion is when someone has legal possession of another’s property and uses it without his permission to generate income. It’s like you store your truck on my property with my permission, but I decide to drive your truck without your knowledge to work or for work or whatever.

I hate to go down rabbit holes with unknowledgeable know-it-alls, but here it is from Black's Law Dictionary:

conversion
n. a civil wrong (tort) in which one converts another's property to his/her own use, which is a fancy way of saying "steals."

 

[918v]

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Conversion is similar to theft but theft is a separate tort. You can sue people for theft just like conversion. The difference between the two is in conversion the person has legal possession.

 

[918v]

https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/theft-or-conversion-what-s-the-difference-47792

 

[hermosabeach]

Each State has it's own Penal Code

In California- 415 Verbal would be stretch... Old man creating a public disturbance
415 is Public Disturbance... normally a letter is added to clarify the disturbance
415 F- Family
415G- Gang
etc


Bigger stretch- PC242 Assault (verbal) (california code)


PENAL CODE - PEN
PART 1. OF CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS [25 - 680.4]
( Part 1 enacted 1872. )

TITLE 11. OF CRIMES AGAINST THE PUBLIC PEACE [403 - 420.1]
( Title 11 enacted 1872. )

415.
Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment and fine:
(1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or challenges another person in a public place to fight.
(2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another person by loud and unreasonable noise.
(3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.
(Amended by Stats. 1983, Ch. 1092, Sec. 283. Effective September 27, 1983. Operative January 1, 1984, by Sec. 427 of Ch. 1092.)