Need help on first build

[jhferero85]

I think i have browsed Sniper's Hide for years now without actually posting anything. I enjoy the talk about all sorts of weapons and love the pictures people post when they finally get that last piece of equipment they needed and couldn't wait to post it here and show all their E-friends their new baby. Well E-friends, lets make a baby.

I think knowing a little about someone and what they like helps others give advice and helps them feel confident in their decisions after they get advice, after that, its just personal pref. I served in the U.S. Navy for 8 years, just got out in May. I had the pleasure of operating quite a few weapons over the years. So, im no expert, but I know enough i guess. Ok, enough chatting your ear off. I love the AR platform, but i would love to be able to reach out and touch something. I am coming to the realization that i may just have to buy a bolt action rifle thats designated for long range accuracy, and have a seperate "toy" i like to call it. If i did get an AR, it would be 5.56. I have been looking at what i wanted for weeks now, and the MK12 Mod0 really caught my eye, but i was doing pricing for it and it would seem to cost over $2k+ with premium parts. I love to shoot, and would love to try some competitions eventually. I dont think i would do long range comp but something. That being said, i dont want to buy cheap parts for a gun im going to take very good care of.

Is there a way to build a MK12Mod0 for less?
Who do you all recommend buying from?
Is there a way to build a well made M4 for decent money?

Again, first build, first time putting together an AR, First gun ive bought myself. I want something special that wont break the bank.

Sorry for the long read, i would appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Temp9]

Re: Need help on first build

You can build a very accurate, very nice quality SPR-type AR for under $1500. If you want to be a Mk12 Mod0 clone, you'll have to pay for the name on the parts. I'm not sure if you want a Mk12 Mod0, specifically, or just an SPR-type rifle. I posted this in another thread a while back.


"My favorite supplier for AR components is Rainier Arms. Great service, prices, and products. Under $1500 for a .5MOA AR is very possible if you don't need all the bells and whistles (billet receivers, super expensive handguards, etc.). If I were to build another AR, it would look something like this:

Lower:
Noveske Matched Upper/Lower Recievers ($275)
JP Lower Parts Kit w/o trigger ($38)
Geissele SSA-E trigger ($210)
Magpul PRS ($242)
Magpul MOE grip ($15)

Upper:
Troy Bravo Rail 13" ($195)
White Oak Armament 18" ($280)
Stag Low Profile gas block ($39)
Gas Tube ($12)
Rainier Arms Chrome BCG ($140)

Total: $1446


That setup should be pretty close to .5 MOA with handloads if the shooter is up to the task. You can cut the cost a bit with a cheaper trigger and non-chrome BCG. If you don't mind paying a bit more, you could go with a Krieger barrel, billet receivers, or a monolithic upper. Alternatively, Rainier Arms sells complete uppers for $1200 that carry a sub-moa guarantee."


In my opinion, you won't gain anything from a Mk12 Mod0 clone except being able to impress people online. You're going to be severely limiting your options going this route. Building a gun to your own specifications is probably the best part about building at all.

Rainier Arms is where I always send people who want to build a quality AR.

Your "M4" build can be as pricey as you want it to be. Different people have different requirements for accuracy, different preferences for handguards, buttstocks, BUIS, etc. Most any decent AR will give great reliability. Hell, my S&W Sport ran flawlessly right out of the box.

 

[jhferero85]

Re: Need help on first build

Awesome reply, thanks a ton. Does Rainer Arms make their own barrels? If so, are they accurate? Is Noveske top of the line or something? Their stuff is pricey.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Need help on first build

While I admire your intent, and thank you for your service, you're a Civvie now, and those rifles you covet are optimized for things Civvies don't get to do very much.

If you want a scoped 5.56 long, heavy barreled AR that shoots lights out, Stag arms makes the Model 6. No muss, no fuss, it makes me very happy, comes with a factory warrantee, and my retailler sold me mine with 4 extra 10rd mags for under a grand. It absolutely loves Prvi Partizan (Serbian, remember Hansen Ammo. Same folks, been making ammo for scores of years.) Boxer brass 69gr Match at somewhere around $11-12 per box of 20. My fired Prvi brass reloads really nicely.

A MK4, isn't that technically an SBR? You might want to pick up a Stag Model 3GH (click the blue 3GH hotspot and then click on the GunsAmerica review) Upper for that same Model 6. The whole package can be yours for well under two grand. Do the switcheroo; I mean, how many rifles can you shoot at once anyway? I like the A2 stock, but they sell others on the site.

FYI, Stag Arms is an industry leader, with decades experience making parts for other AR manufacturers. A few years back they decided to offer their own complete guns. IMHO, they make a great gun at a great price, and their offerings make a good effort to provide a selection of guns for specific purposes that don't need a bunch of aftermarket upgrades.

Greg

 

[jhferero85]

Re: Need help on first build

MK12 was the gun i was talking about. Thanks for the info greg. I think i am really picky when it comes to what i want to put in my gun. I don't know whether i want to buy piece by piece and have a smith do it or buy a whole ar15 and then buy upgrades over time. Piece by piece would let me personalize it more but take longer. Anyway, thanks again greg.

 

[Temp9]

Re: Need help on first build

Rainier Arms buys barrel blanks from either Black Hole Weaponry (Select series), Wilson Arms (Match Series), or Shilen Rifles (Ultramatch Series). They have them chambered and contoured by White Oak Armament. I'm personally shooting an Ultramatch 16" and it's easily capable of consistent .6MOA 5-shot groups with handloads. Most days I can't shoot that well, to be honest, but that's what I'm shooting on a good day.

Noveske is considered by many to be top of the line. Their rifles are generally extremely reliable and quite accurate. From what I understand, their accuracy is well above standard barrels, and definitely up with the big players. Unless you need the extra durability from the Noveske, though, you will probably be just as happy with a less expensive option. Regardless, you won't be disappointed either way, just pick your price point.

 

[jhferero85]

Re: Need help on first build

Still on the fence about buying completed uppers and lowers, or getting quality parts every month or so...

 

[jhferero85]

Re: Need help on first build

Was looking at these two:
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1050

http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=13_44&products_id=384

Both look good out of the box, but the Noveske is pricey.

Thoughts on the rifles?

 

[Jellybean]

Re: Need help on first build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhferero85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....I love the AR platform, but i would love to be able to reach out and touch something. I am coming to the realization that I may just have to buy a bolt action rifle thats designated for long range accuracy, and have a seperate "toy" i like to call it. If i did get an AR, it would be 5.56. I have been looking at what i wanted for weeks now, and the MK12 Mod0 really caught my eye, but i was doing pricing for it and it would seem to cost over $2k+ with premium parts. I love to shoot, and would love to try some competitions eventually. I dont think i would do long range comp but something. That being said, i dont want to buy cheap parts for a gun im going to take very good care of.

Is there a way to build a MK12Mod0 for less?
Who do you all recommend buying from?
Is there a way to build a well made M4 for decent money?

Again, first build, first time putting together an AR, First gun ive bought myself. I want something special that wont break the bank.
............ </div></div>

Alternatively, something to think about-
You are planning on having a dedicated bolt gun for long range precision.
You mentioned doing competitions with your AR, but not long range ones.

In that case, is it really super important to you to have a half MOA AR?

It sounds to me that maybe you are looking for more along a certain body-style of AR and not so much the long range capabilities, and the only prerequisites you're wanting is the longer handguard, low-profile gas system, etc., etc.??
Probably something like a 3-gun style setup with low-power variable scope?

If so, there's lots of options out there for a hard-use AR with the features you want- uppers from high quality companies like Noveske and Ranier, and BCM has quite a lot of options available as well. And of course you can build your lower any way you want- just pick a decent one to start with and have at it.
If you search around you can probably put together something that will fit 90% of what I'm guessing you want, for a little over a grand.

Although, frankly, Temp9's idea really was pretty good- you'd get your accuracy and higher quality with something like that, for the same or less than any other build or factory complete rifle.

That being said, the one thimg, imho, to be said about buying a complete upper and complete lower and slapping 'em together (or complete gun), is the advantage of dealing with less variables and less companies if somthing goes wrong and you need warranty coverage- just so much easier to toss the whole thing at one or two companies and say "fix it".

 

[DS-11B]

Re: Need help on first build

Hello, this is my first post but I've been around on the other forums for a few years.

I think Temp9 said it well. It sounds like we have similar strategies when it comes to making great ARs.

The Rainier Arms UltraMatch barrels are excellent. I use them on both my .308 and 5.56 AR. Mechanically, they are capable of shooting as good as you can. The best I have done so far is 5 shots in a nickel with 69gr SMK. An UltraMatch barrel can be had for 365. Rainier Arms makes good stuff. Their Match Barrels aren't too shabby either. I think you could be perfectly happy with this barrel. Wilson Arms barrels are excellent as well.

If you are willing, are mechanically inclined, and want to get more ARs in the future, it may be worth it for you to build it yourself. That way it is exactly the way you want it right from the start, and you save some money this way. I agree with Temp9, you can make an AR to your exact specifications for under 1500 no problem.

The only thing I would suggest a little differently is that you may wanna look around on the web a little as Rainier Arms is usually a little higher than everyone else. I have had a great deal of success buying parts from MidwayUSA and Chucksguns.com. Chucksguns is so cheap on some things I was worried I might be getting ripped off the first time I bought something but they are legit and they ship almost as fast as midway. You can find many items for 20-40 dollars cheaper than on midway or anywhere else. For example, I put a Troy TRX 13.8" tube on my .308. On Midway and Rainier Arms websites it was 219.99 and 229.99 respectively. However on Chucks I got it for 200 shipped. I am building a rifle for a buddy and I saved him $200 on various parts by getting them on Chuck's rather than Midway or Rainier.

Bottom line, IMO, it is much more rewarding to put together a whole rifle rather than buying something and customizing it as you go. You will have put your own craftsmanship in it and you will also save money in the process.

Anyway, my parting comment is that I definitely will vouch for Rainier Arms Ultramatch barrels and unless I decide to go with a Krieger barrel for some reason in the future, the Ultramatch does exactly what I need it to do and will remain my barrel of choice for future builds.

 

[Temp9]

Re: Need help on first build

How are you planning to use this rifle? Prone off a 'pod and bags? Three gun style? The AR platform is so modular, there are a billion ways to put together your rifle. Keep in mind, it never hurts to have a barrel that is too accurate. You can go wrong with ergonomic selections such as barrel weight, handguard styles, butt stock options, etc.

Building won't take significantly longer <span style="font-style: italic">if</span> you can find the parts you want in stock. Make sure to combine shipping on small parts to keep costs down. After you get the parts, spend an afternoon with a vise and action block, barrel wrench, and a punch set, and you're all done.

Jellybean makes a good point about warranty work on parts. If you aren't very mechanically inclined, it can be difficult to troubleshoot issues that may arise. And on a build, you'll need to know what went wrong before you can send it off to get fixed. With a factory gun, ship them the whole thing, and it should return functional. Then again, you shouldn't have issues and if you do, this forum is not too bad of a place to get troubleshooting help. Plus, if you build it from a bag of parts, you'll generally have a pretty damn good understanding of the system by the time you're done.

Either way, I think you're making the right choice by going for a high quality firearm. Life's too short to shoot Hi-Points and such.

 

[DS-11B]

Re: Need help on first build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a vise and action block, barrel wrench, and a punch set, and you're all done.</div></div>

Also another VERY important good point. If you ever decide to get into building them yourself, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TOOLS! You are rolling the dice if you put an aluminum rifle receiver directly in a steel vice, even with something to pad the receiver. It is not uncommon for guys to crack their receivers or even crush them by doing this. An action block can be had for fairly cheap, DPMS makes one for between 30-40 depending on where you get it. Barrel nut wrench is also absolutely essential, you can really screw something up if you try to pull some home made wrench stuff. They cost 29.99 on Midway. You will also want to make sure you have a torque wrench so you can get the correct torque values. You don't want to over torque, especially when screwing the barrel nut onto the threads of your aluminum receiver.