need help with ladder test gone wrong

[LILBUCK]

I just got my m700 300 WM back from the smith,action trued,rock creek barrel installed with custom brake and tubbs recoil lug. I then pillar bedded the action from lug back(wood stock)and mounted 5.5-22x50 NXS on seekins 20MOA base(bedded that to) and rings. Also cleaned the barrel before i went out.

I loaded about 10 rounds of 200gn nosler spitzers at the lowest powder charge, jammed .010 in the lands to get me sighted in at 300 yards

Then i loaded the bullets for the ladder test in 1 gr increments from lowest charge up to 2gn over max. I started shooting these at paper(300 yards). i got threw 10 of the 14 rounds and quit because they were all in about a 6" vertical by 8" horizontal group,some of the hotter loads were hitting lower than the shots before them it makes no scene to me.

Was ten rounds enough to foul the barrel? Should i shoot more before trying the ladder test

I have read some say 300 yards is far enough some say 1000yard?

If someone can help i would appreciate it. thanks

 

[Topstrap]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

I'm far from an expert but seems like 300 might be a tad far to do that test. I can't hold good enough to make judgements on grouping and experimenting that far away. Lots of factors can come into play at the farther distances. Maybe try 100 yards to get best groups then stretch on out once you have that done?

My lil 260 likes to be off the lands about .015 to work it's best. Not sure if your particular round likes to be stuffed into the lands to work it's best.

Topstrap

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

300 yrds is fine, 400 is better (using scope)

do you understand the principle of the ladder test?
You are looking for a 'node' of where a succession of shots place close together, on the horizontal plane.

It doesn't matter so much if they are 5 inches apart, this can be wind etc. Etc..
As long as they are clustered the same height.

You need to number each individual shot on the target, so your not left with a confusing shotgun blast of holes on the paper,

You might be better off in .5grn jumps on your charges.

Hotter (faster) loads are generaly shooting flatter trajectory, so that's why they can impact lower on your target at closer ranges

good luck!

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

i do understand the principle of the test from what i have read this is the first time doing this for me.i will get out and try 400 yards this weekend.

i did number the shots on target.And from the sticky in the reloading section it said to go in 1% increments, it came out to .8 something so that's why i just went with a full grain difference for each round.

also if the rifle was sighted in with slower charge wouldnt a faster round impact higher?

i am new to this so please explain thank you

 

[Seawalker]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Sometimes on a ladder test, some hotter loads will actually impact lower on the target. It all has to do with the harmonics of when the bullet leaves the barrel and lots of other factors that people who have been doing this a long time are still working out.

Basically speaking you would expect the hotter charges to progress up the target, and overall they will, but it isn't unusual to see them go down on part of the ladder. The charges which group the highest on the target with the least amount of powder is the sweet spot you are looking for unless devloping a hunting load where you should be concerned about delivering max terminal velocity/energy for clean kills or long range (1,000+ yds.) where you don't want the bullet to go subsonic.

 

[TaterInTheSouth]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

I’m looking for accuracy and clues to pressure on a ladder test.
I shoot at 100 yards. Actually 109 yards as I’m shooting 100 meters.
After that you can start to tweek the load and push the yardage.
I’m Not an expert but, I think 300 would be counterproductive at this point.
At least keep you from pulling your hair out.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Suggest you back your OAL off maybe 40 thou so you can get 30 thou off the lands. Find your best charge node and then work both ways with seating changes. You don't have a BR rifle, chamber or cartridge so you aren't likely to get best accuracy seating at or into the lands as they <span style="text-decoration: underline">sometimes</span> do with their lil' bitty cartridges.

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

alright, so i will re seat the bullets deeper, move my target out to 400 yards and try agian i really apreciate all your help i will report back when i get done.

 

[vman]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

I would have to disagree with what topstrap has said above.

At 100 yards you just dont have the right amount of distance covered to truly distinguish which load is better than the next.

300 yards should ideally be your minimum for the ladder test. At this distance you can distinguish vertical dispersion easier than you would at 100 yards... then again at 100 yards you may not even see much difference in vertical between different loads.

Generally for a ladder test i would do the following

1) Load projectiles close to the lands, or to max mag length depending on preferences.
2) Load up powder from starting load up to max, maybe even past it, using small increments (0.5grain is ok to start with). Also load a few sighters/foulers at the bottom powder charge.
3) Take your time at the range shooting the ladder from lowest to highest powder charge stopping if you see pressure signs. Use the sighters to get you on paper at 300 yards.
4) make sure your shooting consistantly at the same point of aim each and every time. This is extremely important.
5) take initial results home and load up some more charges near the node you have found but this time load up on smaller increments 0.1 - 0.2 grains.


Lilbuck, from the sounds of things, your barrel is brand new and might need to see a little bit of action before things plateu out

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

While I agree with Fuzzball to a point, there are smarter ways to test than just backing off .040 and then burning up your new barrel working the seating depth both ways. Are you develping a hunting round or a target / competition round? As stated above a 300 Winn isnt a BR cartridge and I see no benefit for starting your development in the lands as it actually adds quite a bit to your start pressures and dramaticly increases chamber pressures. I would start development .010 off the lands. Once you have identified your load you only have one way to go. Work smarter not harder and you'll enjoy this sport a hell of alot more.

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

VMAN,
thank you for the info and yes the barrel is new about 20 rounds threw it. i already have the bullets loaded for the ladder test so i will shoot them tomarrow at 400yards and see how it does, if anything its just more rounds down the tube to break it in.

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

While I agree with Fuzzball to a point, there are smarter ways to test than just backing off .040 and then burning up your new barrel working the seating depth both ways. Are you develping a hunting round or a target / competition round? As stated above a 300 Winn isnt a BR cartridge and I see no benefit for starting your development in the lands as it actually adds quite a bit to your start pressures and dramaticly increases chamber pressures. I would start development .010 off the lands. Once you have identified your load you only have one way to go. Work smarter not harder and you'll enjoy this sport a hell of alot more.

<span style="color: #000099">i built this gun for long range shooting/hunting if that makes sense i have gongs set up to 1000 yards for now i shoot with a differant rifle. i agree to start .010 off and then go further in after i find the node, but wouldnt changing the seating depth change velosity and then change the node? thanks</span>

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Changing or tuning the seating depth changes everything.(a little bit). Start pressure, Chamber pressure, and barrel time. An OCW is a charge window where you ar GTG 1 or 2 tenths of a grain on either side. The reason we look for the verticle grouping comparison is to identify a node with sufficient velocity to accomplish what ever task we have in mind. Seating depth tuning just refines the barrel time and alows a consistant departure. You can cut your load delopment in half only having to work in one direction. Thats the point I was trying to get across.

My first 5 or 6 shots out of a new barrel is done finding the top end or max. After that is accomplished I'll drop back three grains and load 3 cartridge groups going up 3 tenths each group till I hit the top. Then I'll shoot them round robin. It's worked better for me than the ladder testing. Seating depth tuning is the last step.

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

LR-WSM,

Could you explain or point me in the direction of some more info on this method you use. I don't understand drop back 3 grains and load 3 groups up 3 tenths each group? Seems like you would have 7 tents of a grain your not shooting? I missed something there. And round robin don't get that either.

I am just looking to learn as much as i can, to be the best i can be in this sport thank you

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Give this a read : http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-vs-ladder/4529811360

 

[Jered Joplin]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Provided the rifle is accurate time in flight will dictate vertical stringing at distance. Nothing more.......nothing less ........unless you find a way to remove gravity from the equation.
Some common sense should apply. You find nodes at 100 because gravity has very little effect due to the minute time in flight.

I will go as far as to make this statement. If you can come to my range and prove me wrong I'll give you a free APA rifle for your troubles.

Good consistent loads are found at distance. 100 is simply a reference point and a place to find your node. Flat ladder test at distance means you maxed out your powder not you found "magic".

Don't misunderstand the statement. I'm not saying that bullets running at slightly various speed can't impact the same location at distance. What I am saying is don't be surprised when a ladder test goes vertical at distance until you begin to max out your charge.

Anyone up to the challenge? I'm not trying to be arrogant but it's time the horseshit got swept out of the stall.

I would like to add that if you are coming to a match that I'm shooting in I highly recommend you do your ladder test at distance.

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

That looks like a good way to work up a load very technical thank you for the info but as i don't have quick load or a chronograph i cant use that method now. I am not sure what the best way is to find a good load for my gun i have got 50 different answers on how to work up a load im more confused now than before i guess ill figure it out sooner or later hope i don't waste to many bullets!! thank you to all that helped

 

[Jered Joplin]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Try doing a ladder test at 100. When they shoot into a tight spot that's your node. Then take that info to distance and shoot 5 shot groups of the same load. Start in the middle of the node and work up and out. I think you'll find those results a little more rewarding. 50% of the time you will find that your distance load is out of your 100 yard accuracy node.

Keep in mind that reloading is simply a combination that hopefully provides the performance results you were after. You can find a load and change one small detail and loose everything. However changing a separate variable could bring it back to where you were originally. Example to try yourself. Work up a load that shoots with your bullets .010 in the lands. Then seat .010 off the lands. No doubt the group will change. It will not only slow down but the entire ignition is different in the case. By increasing the charge to bring the velocity back to where it was and it will shoot very similar to the way it did before.

Also FYI. Pick up the phone and call the bullet mfg. They generally have a good idea about what makes their product perform it's best. Taking advice on the net about reloading is like sleeping with a prostitute. You never know what you are going to walk away with. Don't let the enter net let you loose sight of common sense.

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Try doing a ladder test at 100. When they shoot into a tight spot that's your node. Then take that info to distance and shoot 5 shot groups of the same load. Start in the middle of the node and work up and out. I think you'll find those results a little more rewarding. 50% of the time you will find that your distance load is out of your 100 yard accuracy node.

Keep in mind that reloading is simply a combination that hopefully provides the performance results you were after. You can find a load and change one small detail and loose everything. However changing a separate variable could bring it back to where you were originally. Example to try yourself. Work up a load that shoots with your bullets .010 in the lands. Then seat .010 off the lands. No doubt the group will change. It will not only slow down but the entire ignition is different in the case. By increasing the charge to bring the velocity back to where it was it will shoot very similar to the way it did before.

Also FYI. Pick up the phone and call the bullet mfg. They generally have a good idea about what makes their product perform it's best. Taking advice on the net about reloading is like sleeping with a prostitute. You never know what you are going to walk away with. Don't let the enter net let you loose sight of common sense.

<span style="color: #000099">This is good info, smart man you are. I will test this in the morning thank you for you help and your analogy's are top notch!! </span>

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJoplin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Try doing a ladder test at 100. When they shoot into a tight spot that's your node. </div></div>

I think that if your going to run a ladder test at 100 yards (1 bullet at each charge weight) it can be difficult to decipher the information your left with on the target. It will more than likely look like 1 giant confusing clusterfuck since the distance isn't far enough to adiquitly string bullets based on velocity and time of flight. You can color mark the bullet tips with color sharpie to help identify different impacts but will more than likely still be confused. This test is best run at 200 or 300 yards using a detailed shot placement chart at your shooting station to record each impact with the charge weight used. I still think the round robin is the way to go because it spreads variable out and you actually get to see groups, location ,and distances from POI

 

[Jered Joplin]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

I do this a lot. I'm going to venture out and say more than you would imagine. I am under no illusion that I am the world's expert. However the facts I stated are true. If your gun shoots the entire ladder test into a hole that's a big node. All you need to know is where that group started and ended. One example would be my 375 H&H that I worked up a few weeks back with 300g Woodleigh bullets. I fired from 67-71.5g of powder. The entire test was .751 center to center. The first and last shot are out of the group so I I know I have a node from 67.5 to 71g that shot .332. Which shot hit where inside the .331 MOA window is not relevant. The fact that I have a node there is the relevant information.

 

[steve123]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LILBUCK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got my m700 300 WM back from the smith,action trued,rock creek barrel installed with custom brake and tubbs recoil lug. I then pillar bedded the action from lug back(wood stock)and mounted 5.5-22x50 NXS on seekins 20MOA base(bedded that to) and rings. Also cleaned the barrel before i went out.

I loaded about 10 rounds of 200gn nosler spitzers at the lowest powder charge, jammed .010 in the lands to get me sighted in at 300 yards


Then i loaded the bullets for the ladder test in 1 gr increments from lowest charge up to 2gn over max. I started shooting these at paper(300 yards). i got threw 10 of the 14 rounds and quit because they were all in about a 6" vertical by 8" horizontal group,some of the hotter loads were hitting lower than the shots before them it makes no scene to me.

Was ten rounds enough to foul the barrel? Should i shoot more before trying the ladder test

I have read some say 300 yards is far enough some say 1000yard?

If someone can help i would appreciate it. thanks </div></div>

Some IMO's on ladder testing.

1. Yes 300Y is pretty much optimal.

2. Wind does affect vertical also.Pick a very calm day.I try to do ladder testing shortly after a storm has passed and early in the morning not too long after the sun has risen.

3. I go down and mark each shot so the barrel will cool close to the same amount for each shot.Your wasting your time if you let the barrel get hot!

4. It's very important that you do everything the same for each shot.

For instance:

Where your rifle sits on the bags,meaning how far for and aft it's located in relationship to the bags.Make sure you're not torqueing the rifle left or right so it recoils strait back in the bags.If your using bipod then use a scope level so the rifle is not canted.

How and where you hold the rifle.

Using same trigger finger position.

Making sure the parallax is set correctly in your scope.If you don't have parallax adjustment make sure your eye is centered in the field of view.

Observe good shooting form "Follow through"

I've found that starting bullet seating depth just kissing "at" the lands,not jammed,to be a great place to start.

Confirm your initial ladder test results to make sure there hasn't been any error.

 

[Jered Joplin]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

I agree with 2,3 & 4 but all things being equal assume the shooter is doing due diligence. Shooting in the wind is testing you not the load. I make it a practice to test distance loads on the best day that Mother Nature will give me.

The challenge is still open for grabs.

The challenge is not to bow my chest but simply to say if you think your methods works simpler, faster, and more efficiently than what I stated I want you to show me. If you prove me wrong I will happily build anyone a rifle for free. I'm whiling to learn just as we all should be. I have done the test and across the board have found the method mentioned to be the easiest across the board.

 

[Grump]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

One load, one aiming point. I prefer OCW, but don't bother with round-robin any more because I suck so bad it doesn't make a difference.

Assemble the targets to an aggregate group after the shooting is over. Center-punch the bullet hole to your "aggregate" target and put the charge weight info next to it.

If you want to get REAL high-analytical, take a pic of the aggregate target after you add each "shot" to it, then run them together as an animation.

No, I don't do that.

 

[steve123]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

JJoplin,

I was in a hurry to leave for work this morning so I didn't read any of the other posts including yours.So I didn't see your challenge.I wasn't trying to dispute your ladder method.Your method might be more efficient ? If your claiming not to be an expert then I'm far less.

I haven't tried any other methods of OCW or ladder testing other than the 300Y testing.I have worked up many loads at 100Y though.

Some interesting observations.
I've noticed that sometimes a load will shoot good at closer ranges like 100Y and then disperse more than what I consider acceptable at distance.On the other hand I've noticed another phenomenon,the opposite.My 375CT shoots mediocre at 100Y around 1 MOA but at distance 1000Y-2000Y it's capable of turning in some very small groups relative to distance.I theorise that certain types of bullets just aren't fully settled down at 100Y or even 200Y.

 

[Jered Joplin]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

A group will never get better at distance but it seems some don't get worse either. meaning the group looks the same for the first 300 yoards or so then barely gets larger as it goes out. It's all about the bullet being in the right RPM range (assuming the gun is a shooter). What shoots good at 100 might not shoot well at distance because they begin to run out of RPM.

 

[skinnypitt]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

It has been said by several others but the initial development should be done at 100yds. that is where you can eliminate all other factors and just focus on the load and look at the brass for pressure signs. Once you have an accurate one then you should go out further to 300yds minimum to see if things stay the same. I also use a Chrono for my 100yd development, at the nodes you will see the SD and ES narrow considerably. In the link attached I found that the 47.5gr. group had much better SD and ES than the 47.6 and 47.8 and out at range I saw the difference.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post1778392

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Wow i didn't mean to start a pissing match between every one but i got out the other day and (if the pic shows up)it looks like some results i did this test at 400 yards first thing in the morning. Rifle was on bags and i saw the cross hairs on aim point when every shoot broke. I got my zero first let the barrel cool down, changed target then i would shoot two shots marking the shot placement on a piece of paper and take that paper to the target and mark the target. By the time i walked 400 yards and back the barrel would of cooled down and i would repeat.

It looks like shot 5,6,7,8 i had a node and maybe 12,13,14.These shots were in one grain increments .010" off the lands and shot 12 was max book charge shot 13 and 14 were over max (they hit hard)they started to crater primers (federal match) but no ejector marks or hard bolt lift some of the hotter rounds were hard to get out of the chamber i had to pull hard on bolt to the rear to get them out. What does a trained eye see i am not?

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Is there any possability #11 might have been a dropped shot? That group between 10 & 12 looks good except for #11.(possible tail wind)

One other thing that could be a possibility is the fact that #13 plateaued which will also identify a node. Did you shoot this ladder over a chronograph?

I'd look at charge #12 and do some more testing between there and #13

At least for me, these tests are much easier to read when shot at distance like you have displayed.

BTW, a 14 grain ladder test is a huge swing, even with a 300 WM

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

No i do not have a chronograph it would be helpful if i did i am sure. As far as shot #11 it is very possible i dropped this shot, every shot felt good but i am not a pro. My plan was to load some more in .5 grain increments starting .5 grain before shot #10 charge and .5 grain after shot #13 charge and test again.

14 grain is a huge swing you said i am new to this so i started from the bottom and yes it took a long time.

 

[vman]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

LILBUCK, good to see you utilised some longer distance to show the effects of the ladder test.

If it were me, I would reload some more rounds of #9, #10, #11, #12 & #13 and re-do this test to see if the results stay the same... #11 looks a bit weird to me, if that was next to the others i would say that node looks sweet.

How are the pressure signs on those loads?

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

VMAN,

I do plan on reloading some more rounds in what looks like the node range in half grain increments and as stated before i didn't really see much for pressure number 12,13 and 14 shots had slightly cratered primers also primers started to flatten, bolt lift was about the same threw the test but on the last 3 of the test shots the cases were harder to get out i had to pull very hard rearward on the bolt the last shot to get the brass out and that last shot had some recoil!

 

[Seawalker]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

What were you using as your aim point on the paper? Maybe I'm missing something but it looks like from what you show that it would be difficult to aim to the same point on a blank paper. Help me out here. Perhaps you just marked another sheet of brown paper from the actual target since the holes look more like pencil punches than bullet holes?

Anyway I would want to shoot 9-13 to see if it does the same thing with 11 again, but I don't think it will.

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seawalker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were you using as your aim point on the paper? Maybe I'm missing something but it looks like from what you show that it would be difficult to aim to the same point on a blank paper. Help me out here. Perhaps you just marked another sheet of brown paper from the actual target since the holes look more like pencil punches than bullet holes?

Anyway I would want to shoot 9-13 to see if it does the same thing with 11 again, but I don't think it will.</div></div>


I didn't get it in the pic, i wanted to get the important part in the pic but about 3" under shot #1 there is a black dot about the size of a silver dollar.

As for them looking like holes punched with a pencil i don't know what to say other than i promise real bullet made the holes in the picture.

And yes i will load a more refined set for another test hope to get out Monday and test them and i will post the pic of results WITH THE AIM POINT!

 

[Seawalker]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't trying to insinuate anything negative about your target. The bullet holes were so clean except for #7, that I thought you might have laid another sheet over the original target and punched them in with a pencil so the target wouldn't distract from the hole placement.

Hope you find #11 was an anomaly in your next series. Will be interested in seeing what it looks like when you get your next trip in. Please post the results.

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Well i was looking forward to the results of this test until i saw the results. Not what i expected.

To those that commented on shot #11 on the last target you called it, i dropped the shot it is shot #6 on this target.

This test is in .5 grain increments starting at 74 grains to 78.5 as the last. From what i see #5,6,7,8 seem to be the only "node" i see but a 2 grain difference? That seems like a large spread to me but then again what do i know. What do you make of it and who can explain the rest of the shots all over??

 

[Garvey]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Tell us about the conditions that day. 5,6,7,8 look good, but was there a right to left cross wind? In what I've read that doesn't matter anyway. You're looking for vertical dispersion, not horizontal.

BTW I could save you a bunch of walking if you lived closer to me. I use an ATV to get to the target and back!

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Halligan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell us about the conditions that day. 5,6,7,8 look good, but was there a right to left cross wind? In what I've read that doesn't matter anyway. You're looking for vertical dispersion, not horizontal.

BTW I could save you a bunch of walking if you lived closer to me. I use an ATV to get to the target and back!

</div></div>

<span style="color: #000099">Yes there was indeed a little cross wind right to left it would come and go, i kind of wonder if that is maybe why the other shots are scattered.

Also i shot #6 and i couldn't eject the empty the ejector wouldn't grab the rim. The one time i didn't bring any cleaning stuff, so i went back home and grabbed a cleaning rod to get it out, got back out there and i shot the last sighter (at a rock) i had to warm barrel and continued the test </span>

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

I'd look between #6 & #7. That will give you a nice wide sweetspot. Maybe 76.7 grns, see how it groups.
Looks like its shaping up nice.

Might want to check out the belted magnum collet die http://www.larrywillis.com/

 

[Seawalker]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Thanks for the update on the new test. To me it looks like you were probably on a good low power node with your #1 shot, then fell off that node on #'s 2,3,4 and came back into another good wide node on 5,6,7,8. As stated you could probably pick between 6 and 7 and have a good wide range.

I might even consider just picking #6 and going with it. Really no need to shoot more powder if you can get the same results with less.

 

[coues7]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

This is a damn good topic. Lilbuck thanks for bringing it up!

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

LR-WSM,Seawalker,

I agree, i will load up some more in that range and shoot for groups ill post results and show how the ladder test results indicate final group (in my case).

couse7,

No problem just here to get better in the sport like others.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

LILBUCK, did you get any more testing done?

 

[jedi8541]

Re: need help with ladder test gone wrong

Ok, now I understand this ladder test, even after Jered explained it to me in the shop yesterday.
I have a few questions.
1. Should virgin, unfired brass be used, or fire formed?
2. How much neck tension are you striving for?
3. When should you try a different weight bullet?
4. When should you try a different powder?