Need help with M4 build

F

fairchase

Private
Minuteman
Sep 12, 2010
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0
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#1
I got a little bored with my bolt actions so I added an ar to my collecion. I must say it has become addictive. My first ar was a S&W mp15or. It is a fine rifle and probably does everything it's supposed to do. However the little demon in me that wants MOA out of every rifle has come out. So I'm looking at building one.

I know people get tired of these kind of post , but I've read and researched till what brain I have has turned to mush ; so please bear with me.

Ultimatly I want a 5.56 rifle that is capable of moa or less with bullet weights from 60 - 77 grns.

Here is my list

1. Good quality mil spec striped lower ( probably spikes)
2. Lpk minus trigger group and pistol grip (already have a Geissle SSA).
3. Magpul acs , or vltor Emod
4. Ergo grip
5. BCM upper
6. BCM bcg & charging handle
7. vtac extreme handguard (already have)

The barrel is missing and this is where I'm stumped. I'm leaning toward a 16" midlength , but an 18" isn't out of the question.

I WANT A GOOD BARREL ! I'm looking at the BCM ss410 , WOA spr match , and Rainier ultramatch. I want great accuracy along with the longest barrel life. Most of what I've been reading says there isn't much if any difference in preformance between these barrels. If thats the case I should just buy the cheapest one , but I think there are differences I just don't know what they are.

So chould you help me select a barrel ?
 
#2
Re: Need help with M4 build

For longest barrel life, you need to be looking at a chrome lined barrel. However, those do not offer the BEST accuracy available. Adequate for what the rifle was intended, but not the greatest. I hear reports from folks of MOA accuracy from their CR barrels, but my experience is different--more like 2-3 MOA with factory ammo. A match-grade SS barrel will offer the greatest accuracy potential. You need to decide what YOUR priorities are and where you are willing to draw the line of compromise. If accuracy is your primary concern, then I would lean toward one of the SS barrel options you listed. Sorry I can't be of more help.
 
#3
Re: Need help with M4 build

I have built several different AR's with 16" barrels and all performed well. The barrel length that best suits your build should ultimately be determined by the distances you desire to shoot and how much muzzle weight you are willing to put up with. If it is an "M4" that you desire...I wouldn't go longer than a 16".

To that end, I'd look at WOA's 16" Match barrel. They are 1:7 twist barrels which will stabilize everything in the range of bullets you are looking to shoot, they are mid-length, wylde-chambered, and while they feature a lighter contour than the SPR, they are VERY accurate barrels. Get it with the headspaced bolt combo and you are in and done with a phenomenal barrel for less than $325!! It doesn't get much better.

The other barrel I would strongly recommend is the Noveske (Pac-Nor) 16" Recon. It is a 1:7 twist (again...will work well with the range of bullets you are considering), mid-length, Noveske's 5.56 Match Mod 0 chambered, with a med wt contour that is only a few oz heavier than the WOA. They are awesome barrels with a great accuracy potential with the right shooter and ammo that can be had for around the $400 mark.

If not the WOA or the Noveske, I like the Krieger 1:7.7 twist match barrels, BUT...they are a custom order item and to get one finish chambered and ready to roll...you are looking at around $500 or better.
 
#4
Re: Need help with M4 build

Sorry if my questoin was a little confusing. I am only looking at ss barrels. I know chrome lined last longer. Been there done that. What I was asking was is there any difference between the longevity of the different ss barrels. For instance BCM claims their 410 ss is a harder ss resulting in longer barrel life. Rainier claims their ratchet rifling increases barrel life. Fact or marketing hype ?
 
#5
Re: Need help with M4 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have built several different AR's with 16" barrels and all performed well. The barrel length that best suits your build should ultimately be determined by the distances you desire to shoot and how much muzzle weight you are willing to put up with. If it is an "M4" that you desire...I wouldn't go longer than a 16".

To that end, I'd look at WOA's 16" Match barrel. They are 1:7 twist barrels which will stabilize everything in the range of bullets you are looking to shoot, they are mid-length, wylde-chambered, and while they feature a lighter contour than the SPR, they are VERY accurate barrels. Get it with the headspaced bolt combo and you are in and done with a phenomenal barrel for less than $325!! It doesn't get much better.

The other barrel I would strongly recommend is the Noveske (Pac-Nor) 16" Recon. It is a 1:7 twist (again...will work well with the range of bullets you are considering), mid-length, Noveske's 5.56 Match Mod 0 chambered, with a med wt contour that is only a few oz heavier than the WOA. They are awesome barrels with a great accuracy potential with the right shooter and ammo that can be had for around the $400 mark.

If not the WOA or the Noveske, I like the Krieger 1:7.7 twist match barrels, BUT...they are a custom order item and to get one finish chambered and ready to roll...you are looking at around $500 or better.</div></div>





Most of my shooting will be 300 yds. and less. thats why I'm leaning 16".
 
#6
Re: Need help with M4 build

If most of your shooting is <=300yds, you may even want to think 14.5" with a permanently attached muzzle device. Aside from that...a 16" is more than sufficient.
 
#8
Re: Need help with M4 build

My gunsmith suggested I only look at
"I recommend BCM, DD, GTS, LMT, Colt & Armalite"
for barrels. I was in the same boat about 6 months ago
smile.gif
 
#9
Re: Need help with M4 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whoMe?</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My gunsmith suggested I only look at
"I recommend BCM, DD, GTS, LMT, Colt & Armalite"
for barrels. I was in the same boat about 6 months ago
smile.gif

</div></div>

So which did you choose , and how does it shoot ?
 
#10
Re: Need help with M4 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whoMe?</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My gunsmith suggested I only look at
"I recommend BCM, DD, GTS, LMT, Colt & Armalite"
for barrels. I was in the same boat about 6 months ago
smile.gif

</div></div>

Your gunsmith is way off base if he is telling people not to consider extremely high-quality barrels from companies like WOA, Krieger, Rock, Pac-nor/Noveske, LW, etc.! Hell, most of the companies he recommended don't even make their own barrels or have ANYTHING to do with barrels other than installing them in rifles.

On what, may I ask, did he base this recommendation? Can he even tell you who actually made the barrels for Armalite, etc?

Now, I am not saying that those options aren't worth considering or that they are poor barrels, but that advice is just extremely misleading and factually inaccurate. They are decent enough choices for a "fighting" carbine of a rifle that may see a high volume of fire (especially the Bravo Co/BCM units), but any gunsmith who limits your options to those few is selling his customers short.
 
#12
Re: Need help with M4 build

Well hell, I'm in search of the same thing, and been looking for weeks. I even have the same parts list except my rail is a Troy round hole as the Vtac is on my 5.45.

I was originally gonna by a Savage PC, but I already have all of the other parts, save a barrel and block. Figured I should start getting my marksmanship, and rifle reloading skills up before going to a bigger caliber.

I'm currently trying to get checked off at my range, have to have a 3moa 100yrd 5rnd string before going 200-300-600, all 3moa. The 5.45 got 3moa with 7n6 ammo, but the HP guys said it stands no chance at the further yardage. Hence my barrel search.

I'm definitely leaning towards the WOA. Just unsure of barrel length. I would love to get the 14.5" that ranier sells, as I also would like to play some 3-gun. Our 3-gun matches don't go past 100, but I'd also like to try some of the local F/TR matches too. So here's my questions:

Does this lock me into the 18"?
What about the rifle length vs. midlength?
Should I also invest in an H2 or H3 buffer?
Will I be laughed off the line at a F/TR Match? I'm not worried about winning, but don't want to be booed
Would there be any benefit in running a JP or other adjustable gas block?
Finally I guess how important is the matched bolt that WOA offers?

I know that's a lot of questions, but any input would be greatly appreciated. My eyes are blistered with all of the searching I've been doing.

Thanks,
Marty
 
#14
Re: Need help with M4 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whoMe?</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My gunsmith suggested I only look at
"I recommend BCM, DD, GTS, LMT, Colt & Armalite"
for barrels. I was in the same boat about 6 months ago
smile.gif

</div></div>Your gunsmith is way off base if he is telling people not to consider extremely high-quality barrels from companies like WOA, Krieger, Rock, Pac-nor/Noveske, LW, etc.! </div></div> +1 sounds like your 'smith is recommending stuff he is reading out of major catalogs vs. custom performers.

I have had excellent luck with WOA, Noveske and CLE turned Douglas barrels.
 
#15
Re: Need help with M4 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: looty24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well hell, I'm in search of the same thing, and been looking for weeks. I even have the same parts list except my rail is a Troy round hole as the Vtac is on my 5.45.

I was originally gonna by a Savage PC, but I already have all of the other parts, save a barrel and block. Figured I should start getting my marksmanship, and rifle reloading skills up before going to a bigger caliber.

I'm currently trying to get checked off at my range, have to have a 3moa 100yrd 5rnd string before going 200-300-600, all 3moa. The 5.45 got 3moa with 7n6 ammo, but the HP guys said it stands no chance at the further yardage. Hence my barrel search.

I'm definitely leaning towards the WOA. Just unsure of barrel length. I would love to get the 14.5" that ranier sells, as I also would like to play some 3-gun. Our 3-gun matches don't go past 100, but I'd also like to try some of the local F/TR matches too. So here's my questions:

Does this lock me into the 18"?
What about the rifle length vs. midlength?
Should I also invest in an H2 or H3 buffer?
Will I be laughed off the line at a F/TR Match? I'm not worried about winning, but don't want to be booed
Would there be any benefit in running a JP or other adjustable gas block?
Finally I guess how important is the matched bolt that WOA offers?

I know that's a lot of questions, but any input would be greatly appreciated. My eyes are blistered with all of the searching I've been doing.

Thanks,
Marty
</div></div>

Well I finally made a decision. Here is what I got.

1. Spikes stripped lower
2. G & R Tatical LPK with Magpul enhanced trigger guard ( no trigger group , or grip )
3. Geissle SSA trigger (already had)
4. Ergo amb. sure grip dark earth
5. BCM mil spec receiver extension with carbine buffer. I have an H2 so I can use the carbine , H2 ,, or combine the 2 for an H.
6. Magpul ACS dark earth stock
7. BCM upper receiver with m4 feed ramps , dust cover & forward ass.
8. BCM bolt carrier , Bcm gunfighter large latch charging handle , cam pin , firing pin , and firing pin retainer.
9. WOA 18" spr midlength barrel with Wylde chamber , m4 feed ramps , and matching bolt.
10. Daniel Defense .750 clamp low profile gas block.
11. 11" vtac extreme handguard ( already had).

After reading all the comments and suggestions I could find I decided to go with the WOA barrel. It seemed to be a reasonably priced very accurate barrel. I was having a hard time deciding between the 16" and the 18" spr barrel. I called WOA and talked to John. He said the 18" spr barrel would be slightly more accurate , so thats what I ordered. Also for $ 50 why not order the matching head spaced bolt.

The barrel arrived at my doorstep 2 days after ordering. It is dimpled for a gas block set screw which I wont need , but it sure makes aligning the gas block easy. They also sent me a gas tube.

Just waiting now on my stripped lower fron Brownells so I cant put it all togther.
 
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