Rifle Scopes Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

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ptalar

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Minuteman
Oct 10, 2009
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#1
I recently purchased a Winchester Model 70 300 Win Magnum Super Grade Limited Edition. No, its not a sniper rifle. It will be a hunting rifle (animals only). But I get all my rifle scope input from this forum. I recently purchased a Henny (for a different rifle) based on the input from this forum and was very pleased. Although I did not solicit any inputs form the forum on that purchase. Just reading posts.

However, I am considering the purchase of one of the two scopes below for the Model 70. I would like input from the forum on their collective thoughts:

-NXS 3.5-15x50mm F1 with NPRF1 reticle illuminated w/ultralight rings
-Zeiss Divari 3-12x56Tmm with number 44 reticle FFP illuminated.

To me these two are very close for hunting purposes. What does the forum advise?
 
#2
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

What are you hunting? Antelope at 400 yards or Grizzly at 50 yards? Across open plains or in dark timber?
 
#3
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slm9s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are you hunting? Antelope at 400 yards or Grizzly at 50 yards? Across open plains or in dark timber? </div></div>

+1, where and what are you hunting? Dialing dope vs hold overs? If you dont need turrets why have them to snag everything?
 
#4
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

To put it simply, the NF is probably a tougher more rugged scope w/better mechanics and the Zeiss will have superior glass. Just depends on what is most important to you. Personally, I would choose the NF.
 
#5
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slm9s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are you hunting? Antelope at 400 yards or Grizzly at 50 yards? Across open plains or in dark timber? </div></div>

The rifle will be used to hunt elk in Montana, deer in the High Sierra, Wild Pigs in California brush country. Maybe bear hunting, but not in the plan right now but I have discussed with my hunting buddies in the past. So it will see varied terrain. I expect to hunt anywhere from 50 to 300 yards during early dawn hours (5:30 am to 10am or so). No night shooting.
 
#7
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes


I would lean toward the Zeiss as well. While the NF is an excellent choice and certainly durable, I would not underestimate the strength and durability of the Zeiss entry. In my opinion, no comparison on the glass - Zeiss has it hands down. I know many hunters who purchased Zeiss (and Swarovski) scopes many years ago that have bumped them around in the field, in pick-up trucks, and on horseback... and these scopes still are dead-on zero and as tight as they were when new.

George P.
 
#8
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

Oh man, this is a hard one because it makes you assess what features are more important to you to choose between two fine scopes.

Each has its pros and cons. The Nightforce is built tough. Probably tougher than you'll ever need it to be, and, in this department, too much is always better than not enough. The glass is very good, more than good enough. I've never found myself to be handicapped by the quality of the glass. The downside, in terms of your intended use, are that it has an adjustable parallax. In a hunting situation, this could very possibly serve to slow you down at an inopportune moment. The Nightforce is BIG (something around 15" long) and heavy (something over 30oz.) and will add a lot of weight to a rig that you're going to be carrying around. The NF is also going to have those big knobs that always manage to get snagged or banged around.

The Zeiss is, well, a Zeiss. I think it has better glass, although I don't think that it is built as well the Nightforce. If I were to drop both scopes down a steep slope, my money would be on the Nightforce to survive and maintain its zero. I can tell you that from experience. The other pluses, in light of your intended use, are that it has a fixed parallax and doesn't have those big ole knobs. It's also going to be appreciably smaller and lighter. If I remember, it's going to be around an 1" shorter than the NF and 10oz or so lighter.

Personally, if I were in your situation, I'd just get a Nightforce 2.5-10X32 with capped turrets and call it a day. It has all of the toughness of a Nightforce and is smaller than the Zeiss.
 
#9
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ptalar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I recently purchased a Winchester Model 70 300 Win Magnum Super Grade Limited Edition. No, its not a sniper rifle. It will be a hunting rifle (animals only). But I get all my rifle scope input from this forum. I recently purchased a Henny (for a different rifle) based on the input from this forum and was very pleased. Although I did not solicit any inputs form the forum on that purchase. Just reading posts.

However, I am considering the purchase of one of the two scopes below for the Model 70. I would like input from the forum on their collective thoughts:

-NXS 3.5-15x50mm F1 with NPRF1 reticle illuminated w/ultralight rings
-Zeiss Divari 3-12x56Tmm with number 44 reticle FFP illuminated.

To me these two are very close for hunting purposes. What does the forum advise?

</div></div>

ptlar,

Although both are fine rifle scopes, I'm more than a bit confused as how they are both "very close" for hunting purposes.

The Nightforce F1, has exposed turrets, is a MOA adjusting scope, with a Fine MOA ranging reticle, and has 110 MOA of vertical adjustments.

The Zeiss 3-12x56T, has capped turrets, MIL (CM) adjustments, a heavy non-ranging reticle, and 36.7" of vertical adjustments.

Other than the fact they are both 30MM FFP scopes, I find nothing "very close" for hunting purposes between them.

The NF, is a fine scope optimized for shooting north of 300 yds, and the Zeiss is a fine scope optimized for shooting south of 300 yds.

Your comparing a jeep to a corvette. I really cannot imagine two scopes further apart in function, fitting into one mold, for the same purpose, sorry....

Bob

 
#10
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The NF, is a fine scope optimized for shooting north of 300 yds, and the Zeiss is a fine scope optimized for shooting south of 300 yds.

Bob

</div></div>

I agree w/this 100%.
 
#11
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ptalar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I recently purchased a Winchester Model 70 300 Win Magnum Super Grade Limited Edition. No, its not a sniper rifle. It will be a hunting rifle (animals only). But I get all my rifle scope input from this forum. I recently purchased a Henny (for a different rifle) based on the input from this forum and was very pleased. Although I did not solicit any inputs form the forum on that purchase. Just reading posts.

However, I am considering the purchase of one of the two scopes below for the Model 70. I would like input from the forum on their collective thoughts:

-NXS 3.5-15x50mm F1 with NPRF1 reticle illuminated w/ultralight rings
-Zeiss Divari 3-12x56Tmm with number 44 reticle FFP illuminated.

To me these two are very close for hunting purposes. What does the forum advise?

</div></div>

ptlar,

Although both are fine rifle scopes, I'm more than a bit confused as how they are both "very close" for hunting purposes.

The Nightforce F1, has exposed turrets, is a MOA adjusting scope, with a Fine MOA ranging reticle, and has 110 MOA of vertical adjustments.

The Zeiss 3-12x56T, has capped turrets, MIL (CM) adjustments, a heavy non-ranging reticle, and 36.7" of vertical adjustments.

Other than the fact they are both 30MM FFP scopes, I find nothing "very close" for hunting purposes between them.

The NF, is a fine scope optimized for shooting north of 300 yds, and the Zeiss is a fine scope optimized for shooting south of 300 yds.

Your comparing a jeep to a corvette. I really cannot imagine two scopes further apart in function, fitting into one mold, for the same purpose, sorry....

Bob

</div></div>



Bob,

You bring up good points. I am going to decide on a scope. Mount it myself. Boresight it with a green laser sitelite and then zero it in at 200 yards at the range. After that, it will be a hunting rifle with a yearly trip or two or three to the range, for that rifle, to check on zero before the hunt. The turret design differences are not a big decider, for me. Once its sighted in its just maintenance, for me. I want good glass that goes along with the rifle. I like good glass. I come to Snipers Hide to get the facts and opinions and I appreciate your input. Are you saying the Zeiss is the Jeep and the NXS is the Corvette? The NXS is more rugged than the Zeiss so I am assuming the NXS is the jeep.

As far as magnification goes, anything over 12x is gravy for me. They both meet that need. And they both go down to 3x.

Lens quality is probably better in the Zeiss. But I like the ruggedness of the NXS.

As far as cost goes I can get them both for the same price. Actually the Zeiss I can get for $100 less but the NXS comes with rings. So I say I can get them for the same price.

This why I am having a hard time to decide and I came to the Snipers Hide Forum for the opinions and thoughts. Its sort of an Oracle of Delphi, if you will, on Rifle Scopes.
 
#13
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

Sorry I confused you with my Jeep/Corvette analogy. What I was trying to say was the NF is a long range low drag option (corvette) and the Zeiss is the JEEP (short range).

I have no opinion on the ruggedness differential between the two, as both are more than adequate for the purposes you have in mind.

Given you clarification on your intended usage, the Zeiss fits your criteria better. Your not really going to utilize the LR range features that the NF offers, and the reticle in the NF is not really optimized for close range low light snap shooting, IMHO.

Although the NF is certainly rugged, the Zeiss is no fragile delicate flower, and is better suited for your needs.
 
#14
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">very sneaky way of title'in a this scope VS that scope, the force is strong with this one </div></div>

To be honest with you. I really am going to buy one of these scopes. I was just seeing what the Hide had to say. Unless the Hide can make a better recommendation. I did not want to start any us versus them and tried to word the request so we don't go down that road.

I essentially have a budget of up to $3K for a scope but I really don't want to spend much over $2100 to $2200K. For that amount of money there are a lot of good scopes. I thought about buying a Scmidt and Bender or another Henny but I just can't justify that amount of money for a hunting scope. My gut instinct tells me no on a S&B or a Henny for this rifle.
 
#15
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry I confused you with my Jeep/Corvette analogy. What I was trying to say was the NF is a long range low drag option (corvette) and the Zeiss is the JEEP (short range).

I have no opinion on the ruggedness differential between the two, as both are more than adequate for the purposes you have in mind.

Given you clarification on your intended usage, the Zeiss fits your criteria better. Your not really going to utilize the LR range features that the NF offers, and the reticle in the NF is not really optimized for close range low light snap shooting, IMHO.

Although the NF is certainly rugged, the Zeiss is no fragile delicate flower, and is better suited for your needs. </div></div>

Thanks Bob. Also, the Zeiss has a larger objective lens, 56mm which gives it an edge over low light performance. NXS does offer a 56mm obj but I can't recall if its FFP or not.
 
#16
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

If its a semi annual use hunting rifle, why not go for the lightest and simplest? It seems to me that both these scopes are a little excessive for you purpose. If the turrets are just maintenance then having them exposed seems somewhat inefficient, in the case of the NF. And in the case of the zeiss, having a 56mm obj lense, while likely yielding a wider FOV just seems excessive and cumbersome. It would seem to me that a low profile somewhat cost effective lower power scope would make more sense and probably serve your purpose better. I would offer suggestions but I have little experience in hunting scopes.

Of the two you are considering, I would choose the NF. It seems more likely to withstand the sharp recoil and its hard to argue with the shear number of satisfied customers. The economy appreciates you buying American.
 
#17
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charron</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If its a semi annual use hunting rifle, why not go for the lightest and simplest? It seems to me that both these scopes are a little excessive for you purpose. If the turrets are just maintenance then having them exposed seems somewhat inefficient, in the case of the NF. And in the case of the zeiss, having a 56mm obj lense, while likely yielding a wider FOV just seems excessive and cumbersome. It would seem to me that a low profile somewhat cost effective lower power scope would make more sense and probably serve your purpose better. I would offer suggestions but I have little experience in hunting scopes.

Of the two you are considering, I would choose the NF. It seems more likely to withstand the sharp recoil and its hard to argue with the shear number of satisfied customers. The economy appreciates you buying American. </div></div>

Thanks for your input. Buy American is a good point and I thought about that. Its a wild card right now.
 
#18
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

Just to toss another into the pot. I recently got a Swaro Z6 1.7-10x42. Wow is all I can say, the optics are flat out amazing. The image seems to keep going and going beyond the edge of the glass. It does not feel like you are looking through a tube, it is almost just like looking with your eyes.

THe eye position is so easy to find and so forgiving. Having 1.7 on the bottom end is amazing as well. The FOV is huge, perfect for a gun that is going to see close up shooting as well as longer ranges.

I put mine on a Abolt Mountain Ti 300 wsm. It weights right under 7lbs.

IMO if you are not going to be using it at night the 56mm objective will be more of a hindrance than benefit just because of the added weight, and size. It will require high rings and mess up a cheek weld, it will unbalance your gun more as well.

Anyway, just another one to consider. They offer several reticle choices as well. And for 300 and under IMO it is perfect for your needs. Great low light glass, and the perfect mag range for a huge variety of shooting.

Abolt.jpg
 
#19
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

have you looked at the swarovski offerings?

http://www.sportoptics.com/swarovski-z5-rifle-scope-3-18x44-bt-plex.aspx

http://www.sportoptics.com/Swarovski-z6-rifle-scope-3-18x50-BT-plex.aspx

i use the latter, and it works well, and the BT system is so easy it would be great if it's a rifle you don't shoot as much

http://bt.swarovskioptik.com/


also, i forgot to mention the 30mm tube swarovski scopes with parallax adjustments also feature fluoride crystals in the glass (swarovision glass) and it is second to none.
 
#20
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charron</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> while likely yielding a wider FOV just seems excessive and cumbersome. </div></div>

Objective size has absolutely nothing to do with FOV. All it does is allow more light to enter the tube.
 
#21
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just to toss another into the pot. I recently got a Swaro Z6 1.7-10x42. Wow is all I can say, the optics are flat out amazing. The image seems to keep going and going beyond the edge of the glass. It does not feel like you are looking through a tube, it is almost just like looking with your eyes.

THe eye position is so easy to find and so forgiving. Having 1.7 on the bottom end is amazing as well. The FOV is huge, perfect for a gun that is going to see close up shooting as well as longer ranges.

I put mine on a Abolt Mountain Ti 300 wsm. It weights right under 7lbs.

IMO if you are not going to be using it at night the 56mm objective will be more of a hindrance than benefit just because of the added weight, and size. It will require high rings and mess up a cheek weld, it will unbalance your gun more as well.

Anyway, just another one to consider. They offer several reticle choices as well. And for 300 and under IMO it is perfect for your needs. Great low light glass, and the perfect mag range for a huge variety of shooting.

Abolt.jpg
</div></div>

Honestly, I originally wanted a Swarovski scope. But they don't come in FFP. They only come in Second Focal Plane (SFP). I have a Henny with FFP and I like it. I was looking at the Z6i models. So I tended to move toward the NXS and the Zeiss when I found out that they only come in second focal plane.
 
#22
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you looked at the swarovski offerings?

http://www.sportoptics.com/swarovski-z5-rifle-scope-3-18x44-bt-plex.aspx

http://www.sportoptics.com/Swarovski-z6-rifle-scope-3-18x50-BT-plex.aspx

i use the latter, and it works well, and the BT system is so easy it would be great if it's a rifle you don't shoot as much

http://bt.swarovskioptik.com/


also, i forgot to mention the 30mm tube swarovski scopes with parallax adjustments also feature fluoride crystals in the glass (swarovision glass) and it is second to none. </div></div>

See my post above about Swarovski. That is what I preferred but they don't come in first focal plane models. I believe.
 
#23
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ptalar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just to toss another into the pot. I recently got a Swaro Z6 1.7-10x42. Wow is all I can say, the optics are flat out amazing. The image seems to keep going and going beyond the edge of the glass. It does not feel like you are looking through a tube, it is almost just like looking with your eyes.

THe eye position is so easy to find and so forgiving. Having 1.7 on the bottom end is amazing as well. The FOV is huge, perfect for a gun that is going to see close up shooting as well as longer ranges.

I put mine on a Abolt Mountain Ti 300 wsm. It weights right under 7lbs.

IMO if you are not going to be using it at night the 56mm objective will be more of a hindrance than benefit just because of the added weight, and size. It will require high rings and mess up a cheek weld, it will unbalance your gun more as well.

Anyway, just another one to consider. They offer several reticle choices as well. And for 300 and under IMO it is perfect for your needs. Great low light glass, and the perfect mag range for a huge variety of shooting.

Abolt.jpg
</div></div>

Honestly, I originally wanted a Swarovski scope. But they don't come in FFP. They only come in Second Focal Plane (SFP). I have a Henny with FFP and I like it. I was looking at the Z6i models. So I tended to move toward the NXS and the Zeiss when I found out that they only come in second focal plane. </div></div>

are you ranging with the reticle? also if your hunting from 5:30am till 10am, you can get by without illumination if price is the issue,

on the zeiss vs nightforce issue, that would be more scope preference (hunting vs tactical style scope) that which would be better.
 
#24
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ptalar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just to toss another into the pot. I recently got a Swaro Z6 1.7-10x42. Wow is all I can say, the optics are flat out amazing. The image seems to keep going and going beyond the edge of the glass. It does not feel like you are looking through a tube, it is almost just like looking with your eyes.

THe eye position is so easy to find and so forgiving. Having 1.7 on the bottom end is amazing as well. The FOV is huge, perfect for a gun that is going to see close up shooting as well as longer ranges.

I put mine on a Abolt Mountain Ti 300 wsm. It weights right under 7lbs.

IMO if you are not going to be using it at night the 56mm objective will be more of a hindrance than benefit just because of the added weight, and size. It will require high rings and mess up a cheek weld, it will unbalance your gun more as well.

Anyway, just another one to consider. They offer several reticle choices as well. And for 300 and under IMO it is perfect for your needs. Great low light glass, and the perfect mag range for a huge variety of shooting.

Abolt.jpg
</div></div>

Honestly, I originally wanted a Swarovski scope. But they don't come in FFP. They only come in Second Focal Plane (SFP). I have a Henny with FFP and I like it. I was looking at the Z6i models. So I tended to move toward the NXS and the Zeiss when I found out that they only come in second focal plane. </div></div>

are you ranging with the reticle? also if your hunting from 5:30am till 10am, you can get by without illumination if price is the issue,

on the zeiss vs nightforce issue, that would be more scope preference (hunting vs tactical style scope) that which would be better. </div></div>

I would like to have the ranging option that FFP gives you.
 
#25
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

If you want the BEST scope for Hunting at 300 yards and less the Zeiss is the best scope for your application.Not to mention you can get a demo from some of the vendors here on the Hide 500.00 or so cheaper than the F1 NXS.
 
#26
Re: Need Input from Forum between Two Scopes

I decided on the Zeiss. Reason: The Nightforce illumination is hard to adjust and the entire eyepiece rotates when adjusting zoom (can't use butler caps on the eyepiece). The Nightforce F1 was designed for a specific mission and some of the ergonomics don't agree with me. Although a good scope it just doesn't fit me. I would of liked to buy in America, but not this time. I did buy an America Rifle.

I did not buy the Zeiss I originally decided on. I bought a Victory FL Diavari 4-16x50 T* with a number 60 illuminated reticle. Thanks all for your input.
 
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