Need inputs: scope problem analysis

[koshkin]

Gentlemen,

I am considering kicking off a study of sorts to try to get to the bottom of the various scope issues that seem to be popping up. What I am interested in is not catastrophic failures, but rather reports of scopes not holding zero or not tracking or reports of weird distortion, image quality problems, etc.

The idea would be to accumulate some number of them here and then take them to a facility where I have access to all sorts of interesting hardware.
That would mean that those with problems will be willing to send me their misbehaving scope with the mount and as detailed of a description of what they are seeing as possible. It may take me 2-3 months to turn it around, so you would be out of a scope for that amount of time. I do not plan to open scopes up, so the warranty would not be affected.

I set up a poll on my website, trying to determine if there is enough interest in doing this:

https://darklordofoptics.locals.com/post/5688597/need-input-scope-evaluation

You can vote with a free account.

 

[koshkin]

Bringing this back to the top.

Is this something you'd be interested in participating with?

 

[264win]

I appreciate the idea, and would love to see the data. Perhaps shooters in your area who could avoid the cost and risk of shipping x2
Would be more willing to participate?

 

[koshkin]

I appreciate the idea, and would love to see the data. Perhaps shooters in your area who could avoid the cost and risk of shipping x2
Would be more willing to participate?

I do not know all that many shooters locally and I have a suspicion this is most applicable to the precision shooting world, a lot of which is here on Hide.

Either way, I'll give it a couple more days and then decide if I want to do this.

I just want to figure out once and for all if there is really a slew of undiagnosed scope issues there or not.

ILya

 

[NateVA]

I don't have a scope with any issues right now but I'd be interested to see what your version of the Rokslide drop test would be. You have a fair number of high end scopes and I sometimes wonder how they'd do for zero-retention stuff. That wouldn't (initially) require as much or maybe any external input from other people either.

 

[918v]

Like this?

 

[W54/XM-388]

Just as a note @koshkin you might check with Frank and ask for his dataset as a starting point.
He used to test all the scopes that came in to his classes and note the results of the tracking tests and have them sorted by scope brand and model.
Some scope companies and fanboys got really upset that their scopes had a lot of statistical samples with tracking errors.

It would be an interesting starting point for you to work from.

 

[delfuego]

I do not know all that many shooters locally and I have a suspicion this is most applicable to the precision shooting world, a lot of which is here on Hide.

Then you should head up to Zia and meet some. Good folks.

Better still drive up to Raton for the SRM at the Whittington Center and shoot with some of the nicest people around. -wink -poke -poke

 

[koshkin]

Then you should head up to Zia and meet some. Good folks.

Better still drive up to Raton for the SRM at the Whittington Center and shoot with some of the nicest people around. -wink -poke -poke

I shoot at Zia all the time. There is usually noone there, but me. I suspect it is a schedule issue.

ILya

 

[rust4brains]

I don’t have any scopes with issues, however I would not hesitate to send a scope/mount to you if I did. That would be a phenomenal service you would be providing the community.

 

[koshkin]

Just as a note @koshkin you might check with Frank and ask for his dataset as a starting point.
He used to test all the scopes that came in to his classes and note the results of the tracking tests and have them sorted by scope brand and model.
Some scope companies and fanboys got really upset that their scopes had a lot of statistical samples with tracking errors.

It would be an interesting starting point for you to work from.

I remember that thread. That was very useful, but it is a little different form what I am doing here.
I am not looking to get any sort of survey on which scopes work and which do not.
I want to very specifically to look at scopes that, according to their owners, have something wrong with them and figure out the root cause of that.

ILya

 

[Hickswr]

I suspect a lot of trivial scope “issues” are actually “excuses” for the individuals performance or lack thereof.

 

[koshkin]

I suspect a lot of trivial scope “issues” are actually “excuses” for the individuals performance or lack thereof.

That may very well be, but I want to chase it down if possible and arrive at something definitive.

ILya

 

[Hickswr]

That may very well be, but I want to chase it down if possible and arrive at something definitive.

ILya

And I commend your efforts for it! I’ve learned a lot about optics from your posts and live streams.

Thanks for putting in the work that benefits many of us!

 

[918v]

In riflescopes, what is an acceptable tolerance for zero shift under recoil?

 

[W54/XM-388]

In riflescopes, what is an acceptable tolerance for zero shift under recoil?

I'm not sure about that question.

I mean if you are spending the money on a high end rifle, high end scope, high end mount, you would pretty much expect there to be no perceptible zero shift at all. Regardless of recoil or being handled a bit rough or whatever, you should expect if you are doing it right and paying top dollar, that essentially there is no shift.

My AW with the old S&B 5-25 scope has fallen off tables onto concrete, shot 1k + rounds, gone a couple years, had fun in the blowing dust, bounced around in the back of a truck and such and zero is still essentially exactly where it was set and at 100 yards the bullet goes right exactly where the crosshairs point.

 

[918v]

I'm not sure about that question.

I mean if you are spending the money on a high end rifle, high end scope, high end mount, you would pretty much expect there to be no perceptible zero shift at all. Regardless of recoil or being handled a bit rough or whatever, you should expect if you are doing it right and paying top dollar, that essentially there is no shift.

My AW with the old S&B 5-25 scope has fallen off tables onto concrete, shot 1k + rounds, gone a couple years, had fun in the blowing dust, bounced around in the back of a truck and such and zero is still essentially exactly where it was set and at 100 yards the bullet goes right exactly where the crosshairs point.

In the video I linked to above all the scopes they tested exhibited some zero shift. So I’m wondering if there is an acceptable tolerance.

 

[stefan73]

I could send you my SS 10X that grenaded itself on my .50 BMG with the old muzzle brake before I upgraded to AR50 brake.

There is broken glass in the tube and the reticle rotates while shooting. It's wildly cool.

 

[koshkin]

I could send you my SS 10X that grenaded itself on my .50 BMG with the old muzzle brake before I upgraded to AR50 brake.

There is broken glass in the tube and the reticle rotates while shooting. It's wildly cool.

That's not what I am looking for. I want the non-obvious problems.

ILya

 

[stefan73]

That's not what I am looking for. I want the non-obvious problems.

ILya

Like the having to reset the zero stop of the NXS because it won't elevate after shooting the .50 BMG type issues?