Rifle Scopes Need Iron Sight Help

[Walsh]

Hello again, I have a question on iron sights.

In October I will be able to purchace a rifle (18th bday) and it'll be an FNH TSR XP .308 20"bbl. I would like to add irons to it.

Here are the type of sights in question:

http://www.rossprecision.com/products_sights.htm
http://www.phoenixprec.com/index.php...&products_id=1

For the rear sight, probally will be putting a Gerhmann 510 fixed iris.

Will these be able to work with the rifle? Also, at some time I'd like to take off the Houge stock add add an XLR stock, here is a link:

http://www.xlrindustries.com/evolution.html

I think I could run irons on this stock, but how do you think the cheek weld would be?

I know I could buy a scope and be done with it, but I enjoy good match grade sights, and I believe that it will help me learn how to shoot better then a scope.

Also, I will be hunting with this rifle, the furthest range that I can shoot is about 400 yards.

Thank You in advance,
P.B.Walsh
 

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

If you are planning on getting the XLR stocks don’t buy a TSR XP. You will be paying for a stock which you don’t need. I am sure you can buy an amazing barreled action for a 1000 dollars slightly used if you look around. Gun Broker sometimes has amazing deals. Learning with iron sights is a good idea if you plan on having a rifle which is going to use iron sighs, but the rifles you are looking at are really not meant to have back up iron sights. If it was an AR it would be different, but really you want to get the scope as close to the bore as possible. Don’t pay too much attention to the old guys who tell you iron sights are the best to learn, the reality is they have disadvantages, I started with a scope and when I started using iron sights I found it really easy, learning to shoot is about controlling your body not the type of sight. As for the front sight you will need to find out the diameter or your barrel at the muzzle and then get a sight designed for that diameter.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

Most any match sight set can be fitted to your rifle. I posted some pics a few years ago here of one of my Remington 700P's with a Centra/Anschultz sight set. This sight set works well with the HS Precision marksman stock.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

Agree with Sterling

 

[Walsh]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

The stock that comes with the TSR is just a green Houge stock, not the best in the world, so I will probally need to upgrade as funds allow, and unfortunately HS dosent make (that I am aware of) a Police style stock for the FN. And I have a special love for iron sights for some reason.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

Unless you are planning to shoot XTC or Palma or some other discipline that requires iron sights there is NO good reason to do what you propose. If you think your proposal is somehow more economical than optics, think again. In your effort to mount the sights, you will not only end up spending $1000 plus--you will SUBSTANTIALLY decrease the value of your rifle. You will never re-sell your bad idea project.

My guess is you are really young.

ETA- Happy 18th birthday!!

 

[Walsh]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

Well, I do see your logic, however the one flaw is that I wpuld not be doing any permanant mods to the rifle, but thats beside the point.

Ok, has anyone ever tried to use a regular scope with the XLR stock, and run irons as a back up (such as you would with an AR)?

Yea, I am just going to be 18 in October, but I am surely not a stupid kid.

Thanks,
P.B.Walsh

 

[vtb]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

If you would use the XLR chassis - why not to buy picatinny mounted AR-type front and back flip-up sights?

you just put picatinny rail on 12 o'clock on foreend and rail on action. the sights will seat on the rails.

something like:

front: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24306/Product/AR_15_M16_FLIP_UP_TACTICAL_SIGHTS
rear: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=25157/Product/AR_15_M16_FLIP_UP_REAR_SIGHT

Or on the front you can use AR-10 gas-block sights (no gas tube but it doesn't matter) - http://www.pri-mounts.com/mm5/merchant.m...ry_Code=308_ACC

 

[Erud]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

I have a fair amount of experience shooting with iron sights in NRA Highpower matches and for that style of shooting, the sights you are looking at are perfect. For hunting and general target shooting they are not the right choice. The concept behind match sights is that you are lining up 3 circles inside each other(target, front sight, rear sight) to hit the center. The aiming black on HP targets for different distances are sized to appear the same in your sights from any yard line, as long as you are using the right target. If you are shooting at a deer or some other irregular(anything other than round) target at varying distances, these particular sights will be very hard to use effectively. Also, as I'm sure you know there is no reticle or cross hair to hold on with these sights, just a circle. If you want to hunt with sights(absolutely nothing wrong with that), you'd probably be better off with a traditional front post and notch or ghost ring rear.

Now, I strongly recommend that you find a HP match in your area and check it out. It is an insanely fun and challenging sport and you just might get hooked. I think its the best way for a regular guy to learn how to really shoot a rifle well and you might just end up building a proper OTC rifle after you try it.

Btw, I think the Phoenix rear sight is the best one out there. I have 2 of them and 1 Warner rear - bought the Warner first. If I'd bought a Phoenix first, I'd have 3 of them and would've saved my money on the Warner....

Good luck,
Erik

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walsh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I do see your logic, however the one flaw is that I wpuld not be doing any permanant mods to the rifle, but thats beside the point. </div></div>

Then good luck getting that front sight to mount up. Your barrel has a taper, the sight, unless it is different than every other front sight out there requires a straight section of barrel.

Also a 20" barrel would give you a piss-poor sight radius, relatively speaking, for match sights. HAve you ever actually used match sights?

 

[Walsh]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

Never have used match sights, best sights I have is an AR. Mabey I should give the flip up sights a bit more look, they would be great for th purpose that they serve, as emergemcy back up. I have thought if the sights were suitable for hunting and informal shooting (with is probally 80% of my shooting).

Please keep up the great advice,
P.B.Walsh

 

[Bazgab]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

I understand you like the concept of iron sights on a your rifle but to me it just seems unnecessary, especially as back up sights on a scoped bolt action rifle. If you are doing competitive shooting that requires irons then great but if you are just messing around or hunting why do you need to waste money on "emergency" iron sights. Put the money towards a quality scope, they are made to be very durable and the chances of it failing are very slim.

 

[Walsh]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

I found some sights, an LMT rear and front, I also now figured out that I can use smaller apatures. These sights are not too expensive, yet allow me to do what I want to, cant wait to use them.

Yes, I will purchace a scope, probally a SS 3-9x40 with their new reticle, but only as buget allows, if I could, USO would be nice, but thats just a dream for most of us, including me.

Really looking forward to this rifle!!

Thanks,
P.B.Walsh

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

How are you going to mount the front sight? You need something like this front sight that I designed in inventor a few month ago while I was bored, but guess what as far as I can tell nothing like this exist in the real world and it will be at least 3-4 years before I am able to actually produce anything because I don’t have any equipment yet. Mounting a front sight is only going to be easy if you consider easy taking your gun/sight to a gunsmith and paying him to make them fit.

 

[kombar]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

Match irons on any gun are just plain fun to use if nothing else. Don't listen to the people telling you that the sight radius on a 20" barrel isn't enough, or that you can't shoot at irregular target shapes, or that you will devalue your rifle, or that you'll need a straight section of barrel to mount the front sight, or whatever else they may come up with. About the only valid argument against them I've seen is their price, which can be substantial.

I use a Phoenix Precision/RPA combo at a 14.4" sight radius on a pistol I have (which gives 1/2 MOA clicks) and they work just as well as they do when I have them on a 20", 25", or 28" barrel.

I've used clamp on front sight bases on tapered barrels and they also work fine, provided your muzzle diameter is close enough to .750, .812, or whatever else is offered. Similarly, a height adjustable clamp on rear base (I use one from Medesha Firearms) will mount to any picatinny base, and allow you to position the sight where you need it. You shouldn't have to modify the rifle in any way.

You won't achieve the same level of precision you'd have when using an optic, but that's really just down to your ability to see the target and maintain a consistent sight picture. It's very satisfying to shoot at a target you can barely see and hit it with consistency.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

I agree about the straight section of barrel but you should find out what the diameter of your muzzle and the diameter the sight is designed for, otherwise it is possible you will buy something which won’t work are you will need to modify it to get it working.

 

[Walsh]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

The way I will mount the front dight will be on the XLR stock forend (they also sell picatinny rails that you can mount to the forend).

I belive I have decided against match sights for this rifle because I will be hunting, therefore I do not want to bump expensive sights on a tree limb/treestand. Besides if I cannot hit with A2 sights with a hair of modification, I just need to keep on practicing, upgrade when my abilities can dictate my next move.

Btw, has anyone ever tried KNS Precision? Looking at them to replace the standard A2 fsp, nothing against them, I just do not like them.

One day, mabey I can build a single shot 30-06 or .308 with a tubegun stock and great match irons.
For now, I might just need to get the Savage Mk1 FVT, to curb my hunger!

Thanks,
P.B.Walsh

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Need Iron Sight Help

Starting out, you will want line of bore to front sight, tip or center, to be X height , and line of bore to rear sight center to be X height in-order that adjustment of the sights is possible to zero the rifle.