Rifle Scopes Need Scope Help for GA Precision Rifle - March vs. Swarovski vs. Leupold

[grizzlestomp]

Hey all,

Need some help choosing between different scopes. Having the fine folks at GA Precision build me a rifle and want to pair it with something nice. Rifle will be used primarily hunting, but I am having a pretty heavy Rem Sendero/Varmint contour barrel installed so I can shoot off some decent length shot strings from the bench. Primary range between 50-600 yards, but, if possible, I would like something allowing me to reach out to 800-1000 yards, even if i won't be hunting at that range much, if ever.

Not really interested in first focal plane scopes. Would primarily laser rangefinder, instead of using reticle for rangefinding or holdover shots.

Trying to spend as little money as possible, with possible max range up to around $2500. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Rifle Specs:
Caliber - 6.5 GAP 4S SAUM, 24" barrel #6 GA barrel, 1:8 twist, APA Little Bastard Brake

Here are my top contenders

1. March 2.5-25x42 SFP Scope with tactical knobs - struggling to pick a reticle if I go with this choice. I like illuminated reticles, but would prefer something simpler than the MTR1 or MTR 3. Thinking of going with simple Di-plex or 1/16 dot (which are only available non-illuminated

Benefits: Lightweight, large range of elevation adjustment, great glass, great magnification range
Cons: No option of a custom ballistic dial,

2. March 2.5-25x52 SFP Scope - Largely same as #1. Pros: better low light clarity. Cons: Heavier, more expensive

3. Swarovski z6i 3-18x50 - Would go with illuminated 4W-i reticle.

Benefits: Great glass, lightweight, custom ballistic turrets available, I like the simple red dot illumination paired with wind plex reticle.
Cons: standard dial comes in MIL, I prefer MOA (not really a problem since I would order custom turrets with yardage increments. Apparently really limited elevation adjustment range. Rep said 68 minutes, but said the turret somehow limited this even more. I'm confused.

4. Leupold VX-6hd 3-18x44 - Would probably go with Firedot Duplex reticle

Benefits: cheaper than the others; I like the simple reticle, I already have one and like the turrets and zero stop functionality, easy to order and free CDS dials
Cons: I've heard differing reports on glass quality versus other scopes mentioned above, and differing reports on durability

 

[MosesTheTank]

NF ATACR 4-16×50

Great knobs, positive clicks, lifetime warranty, as strongly built as they come, great customer service, great glass, within your price range.

I have a Z6i. The glass is simply outstanding, the turrets are so-so (I had Swaro send me a mil elevation turret) and relative to the ATACR they are mushy, not as positive, and easier to lose track of. But as I am unlikely to ever need more than about 5 mils it is not a big deal. This scope is on my thick woods rifle and the center dot is invaluable in low light conditions and makes for fast shooting at closer ranges (inside of 250 yards).

VX-6HD, turrets are no where near NF and I much prefer the Mil-R reticle to anything Leupy offers.

I have 0 experience with March.

 

[dirthead1]

I agree with Moses. I have a NF ATACR 4-16x50 on my LR hunting rifle. It's fantastic. It's SFP, relatively compact, not too heavy, excellent turrets, reticle is clean but usable if wanting to do holds. 16x is plenty of magnification.

 

[spife7980]

3. Swarovski z6i 3-18x50 - Would go with illuminated 4W-i reticle.
Benefits: Great glass, lightweight, custom ballistic turrets available, I like the simple red dot illumination paired with wind plex reticle.
Cons: standard dial comes in MIL, I prefer MOA (not really a problem since I would order custom turrets with yardage increments. Apparently really limited elevation adjustment range. Rep said 68 minutes, but said the turret somehow limited this even more. I'm confused.

I have a z3 and the turret has little washers with colored knobs you set to where ever you want, I zero a 223 at 100 and put a dot at 2,3 & 400 yards and from pics online it looks like the z6i is the same set up. That equates to right around 14 moa of elevation. Part of this set up is a zero stop and it limits you to only one rotation. So while there is plenty available (for zeroing purposes) you only actually have access to one rotation of dialing. Wish I would have read into it a bit more but I got it half knowing that but I figured for a short coyote rifle it would be adequate. Which it is, it just hinders my tinkering out a bit further.

I also cant get them to tell me if its moa or iphy and no one on their support line seems to know the difference.

They are kind of a pain in the ass but the glass quality is pretty great.

 

[kristian55]

Hi,
for hunting-uniquely March tac. 2.5-25x42 MML reticle.

Hey all,

Need some help choosing between different scopes. Having the fine folks at GA Precision build me a rifle and want to pair it with something nice. Rifle will be used primarily hunting, but I am having a pretty heavy Rem Sendero/Varmint contour barrel installed so I can shoot off some decent length shot strings from the bench. Primary range between 50-600 yards, but, if possible, I would like something allowing me to reach out to 800-1000 yards, even if i won't be hunting at that range much, if ever.

Not really interested in first focal plane scopes. Would primarily laser rangefinder, instead of using reticle for rangefinding or holdover shots.

Trying to spend as little money as possible, with possible max range up to around $2500. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Rifle Specs:
Caliber - 6.5 GAP 4S SAUM, 24" barrel #6 GA barrel, 1:8 twist, APA Little Bastard Brake

Here are my top contenders

1. March 2.5-25x42 SFP Scope with tactical knobs - struggling to pick a reticle if I go with this choice. I like illuminated reticles, but would prefer something simpler than the MTR1 or MTR 3. Thinking of going with simple Di-plex or 1/16 dot (which are only available non-illuminated

Benefits: Lightweight, large range of elevation adjustment, great glass, great magnification range
Cons: No option of a custom ballistic dial,

2. March 2.5-25x52 SFP Scope - Largely same as #1. Pros: better low light clarity. Cons: Heavier, more expensive

3. Swarovski z6i 3-18x50 - Would go with illuminated 4W-i reticle.

Benefits: Great glass, lightweight, custom ballistic turrets available, I like the simple red dot illumination paired with wind plex reticle.
Cons: standard dial comes in MIL, I prefer MOA (not really a problem since I would order custom turrets with yardage increments. Apparently really limited elevation adjustment range. Rep said 68 minutes, but said the turret somehow limited this even more. I'm confused.

4. Leupold VX-6hd 3-18x44 - Would probably go with Firedot Duplex reticle

Benefits: cheaper than the others; I like the simple reticle, I already have one and like the turrets and zero stop functionality, easy to order and free CDS dials
Cons: I've heard differing reports on glass quality versus other scopes mentioned above, and differing reports on durability

 

[grizzlestomp]

I was leaning against the NightForce ATACR 4-16x50 for a couple reasons. First, the magnification range is constricted. I really like. 2.5 or 3 on the bottom end for reaction type shooting and looking around with a wide field of view. And I'd take 18x over 16x for really long range. Second, it's about a half pound heavier than all the other scopes on the list. The second point isn't really a dealbreaker, but this rifle is already getting pretty beefy (probably end up around 11+ pounds) and I'm trying to avoid adding any more weight if possible. I love the Nightforce durability, elevation adjustment, turrets, and glass. I guess I may have to end up adding these to the list.

Kristian55, I couldn't find any "MML Reticle" on the March or bullets.com website. Did you mean to recommend something else?

 

[stwcattle]

Another vote for NF ATACR 4~16x50

 

[CSTactical]

For those looking for the fantastic NF ATACR 4~16x50, give us a call at 916.670.1103 for hide pricing and we can get one out today

 

[Stinger78]

Im in the same boat as you. My Gladius won’t be done until February or March so I’ve got time. I’d like something in the 20x-22x range but everything in that mag range seems so heavy. I’m gonna hold off until after SHOT show. Keeping my fingers crossed more manufactures come out with some lighter more compact options for 2018.

 

[grizzlestomp]

Im in the same boat as you. My Gladius won’t be done until February or March so I’ve got time. I’d like something in the 20x-22x range but everything in that mag range seems so heavy. I’m gonna hold off until after SHOT show. Keeping my fingers crossed more manufactures come out with some lighter more compact options for 2018.

Stinger, have you looked into the March 2.5-25x42 scopes? There is not a ton out there, but I need to do more research. Only 20-24 oz and a great magnification range. Just a little tough to get solid information on.

 

[Stinger78]

Stinger, have you looked into the March 2.5-25x42 scopes? There is not a ton out there, but I need to do more research. Only 20-24 oz and a great magnification range. Just a little tough to get solid information on.

I have seen those. They are on my radar for sure. Keeping my fingers crossed the new year will bring some more options. Won’t have my rifle till spring anyway more than likely

 

[usmc45]

I think something that always gets lost in the this hunting scope argument is durability. We all agree that the scope needs to be mechanically perfect and have a reticle that we like but none of this will mean jack shit the first time we trip or take a fall out in the field and bounce the scope off the ground or a rock. At that point who cares how light it is or what magnification range you have if your scope is now knocked out. So as the others have said the NF 4-16x50 is awesome and we all know will take a hit and keep on running.

Happy Shooting

 

[Hairy Biker]

If you are interested in light weight and precision optics, then March is the first call. Plus you can buy custom knobs for your ranges if you like. But pairing up a March 2.5 - 25 x 52mm with a good ballistics app like AB will get you on target for the type of shooting you are talking about.

Swarovski scopes are brilliant too. A bit heavier.

But remember, for a serious marksman, the price of the scope equals the price of a rifle regardless. Sadly long range is not a game for the shallow pocket!

Good luck!

 

[grizzlestomp]

If you are interested in light weight and precision optics, then March is the first call. Plus you can buy custom knobs for your ranges if you like. But pairing up a March 2.5 - 25 x 52mm with a good ballistics app like AB will get you on target for the type of shooting you are talking about.

Swarovski scopes are brilliant too. A bit heavier.

But remember, for a serious marksman, the price of the scope equals the price of a rifle regardless. Sadly long range is not a game for the shallow pocket!

Good luck!

The March Rep said they don't offer custom knobs for their scopes. And the few online companies that offer custom ballistic knobs said they didn't make them for March either. Any idea where I could get these custom knobs?

 

[Stinger78]

Grizzlestomp- When do you expect GAP to have your rifle done? This late in the year, if you can wait to see the new year offerings I at least wait long enough to check those out

 

[CBDR]

Keep it simple. Go with what you know. I have tried to justify the "it's going to be a hunting rig" but also want to be able to do XYZ. Good luck trying to satisfy both worlds. You have a high end bolt action, don't skimp
Enjoy the journey

 

[jmill05]

Another vote for 4-16 ATACR, I'd take quality of glass over a little extra mag any day of the week for ELR. If you're against the NF, then I would go with a genii razor in the 3-18 range. adds a little to each end of the mag without giving up quality to the NF (as long as you can handle the extra weight).

 

[Gledeasy]

I'll chime in as I've owned some of the scopes in question (March 3-24x42, Leupold vx6 3-18x44, and NF ATACR 4-16x42).

Obviously 2 of those were FFP.

The Leupold was the first of the 3 I owned. It was a real nice scope and I felt like the optics were dang good. Spun turrets and my wife and I killed deer and elk with it from 10-475 yards in temps from 8-70 F. The turrets were mushy in comparison but got the job done. Not sure how the new vx6hd compares.

Next I went with the NF ATACR. I'll admit I'm a big NF fan and I thought this scope was my huckleberry. I love everything about the scope other than the whole ocular rotates with magnification and that it's a 34mm tube. The 34mm tube just made most of my hunting rifles seem unbalanced, where you have a heavier contour maybe it won't be as noticeable. I've used it the last few seasons on my muzzleloader with good success. Last year I slipped on a boulder and my gun smacked against a rock. Being a NF I didn't worry too much and the next day killed my biggest buck to date.

The March is the newest of the bunch and so far only a few range trips and a couple hunting days behind it. I will say, IMO, that it offers the overall best package for a hunting scope (lightweight/compact, good mag range, lots of elevation, great turrets, etc). I've been impressed with it thus far. I've read a lot of the negatives with it, but haven't necessarily felt the same way as they did about it. However, I would like to try the 52mm objective version just for comparison. But honestly the rifle I have the scope on is a perfect match. My biggest concern with it is more the unknown I have with the company itself. Probably a mute point, but until I have more time with it I'm not going to buy another (as much as I would like to).

 

[Clearlight]

The March is far and away the best built scope of the 3 you named .
With respect , as your skills improve you will outgrow ‘ custom turrets ‘
with the range to target marked on them . As you get to know you rifle
and chosen load , you will hopefully remember your holds for at least
every 100 increment out to 5 or 700 : adequate for most hunting .

Lowlight did did a very positive review of the March a few years back ,
have a google for it . You are buying a custom built precision rifle , not
a production line item . Why not top it with a hand built precision optic ?

 

[BallisticPrimate]

As others have said the March is going to be extremely difficult to beat given your criteria. This kind of size/weight/magnification combination in a hunting scope is unique to March. While not a SFP here's a 3-24 in comparison to a Bushy 3-12 LRHS. I have a NF ATACR 4-16 (it's an outstanding scope) but for a dedicated hunting optic I'd take the March every time.

<a href="https://imgur.com/wmj4r7H"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/wmj4r7H.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

 

[kristian55]

Hi.
...very good option MTR5 reticle for March http://www.deon.co.jp/image/Reticle/MTR-5-size.jpg
MML reicle http://www.marchscopes.co.uk/2.5x-25x42-sfp.html http://www.deon.co.jp/image/Reticle/MML-size.jpg

http://www.deon.co.jp/Scope-Reticle.html#MTR 目盛り換算

I was leaning against the NightForce ATACR 4-16x50 for a couple reasons. First, the magnification range is constricted. I really like. 2.5 or 3 on the bottom end for reaction type shooting and looking around with a wide field of view. And I'd take 18x over 16x for really long range. Second, it's about a half pound heavier than all the other scopes on the list. The second point isn't really a dealbreaker, but this rifle is already getting pretty beefy (probably end up around 11+ pounds) and I'm trying to avoid adding any more weight if possible. I love the Nightforce durability, elevation adjustment, turrets, and glass. I guess I may have to end up adding these to the list.

Kristian55, I couldn't find any "MML Reticle" on the March or bullets.com website. Did you mean to recommend something else?

 

[Hairy Biker]

The March custom knobs are blanks, you can mark your own ranges on them.

BUT, far better to learn your rifle and your load and dial. A good ballistics programme will help.

 

[grizzlestomp]

First of all, many thanks to all the feedback. This is all exactly what I am looking for. The deciding factor for me is the mag range and the glass in the March scopes.

Now I just have to choose which March scope to get; FFP vs SFP, if SFP I have to choose a reticle, and 42mm vs 52mm objective.

First, I am leaning towards either the March SFP 2.5-25x42 or 2.5-25x52. Any advice on whether I really need the larger objective size? I figure it is just a matter of better light transmission hunting at dawn or dusk, but was kind of hoping that an illuminated reticle would be sufficient with the 42mm objective. If anybody disagrees with this logic, please chime in.

Second, I am still considering the March FFP 3-24x42 or 3-24x52 with the illuminated FMA-1 reticle. The deciding factor here would be whether I planned mostly to use the reticles for range-finding and holdover shots, or whether I plan to use a rangefinder for distance and dial it in on the turrets. If the former, than the FFP reticle seems like a nice option, I would hate to have to do different math depending on the magnification range. My experience taking long range shots is limited, and any guidance here is greatly appreciated.

When people are hunting out to 400-700 yards, is it really that common to take holdover shots using the hash marks in the reticle? Or do most hunters taking long-range shots dial in the distance on the turrets? Obviously, the answer here would make a big difference between FFP and SFP, and I'd rather learn to do it right the first time. My hunting experience so far is limited to shorter range shots where none of this really came into play. And I've always used scopes with simple cross-hair or red dot reticles at the range, so I've only learned to dial in for distance.

The March is far and away the best built scope of the 3 you named .
With respect , as your skills improve you will outgrow ‘ custom turrets ‘
with the range to target marked on them . As you get to know you rifle
and chosen load , you will hopefully remember your holds for at least
every 100 increment out to 5 or 700 : adequate for most hunting .

Clearlight, I've been playing around with CDS dials on my Leupold and am already getting what you mean. Very limited. No allowance for changing rounds or in any conditions but those in which the hash marks were calculated.

When you say "remember your holds" are you referring to (1) remembering what MOA on the turrets corresponds to each 100 yd increment; or (2) which hashmark on the reticle to use for a holdover shot?

 

[spife7980]

When you say "remember your holds" are you referring to (1) remembering what MOA on the turrets corresponds to each 100 yd increment; or (2) which hashmark on the reticle to use for a holdover shot?

Both. They are one in the same despite being implemented in different ways. Its knowing your DOPE.

 

[steve123]

The time factor and some other considerations is what will separate which ways the scope will be used.

If a shot is close, like less than 200Y, you'll need the mag turned down for a large FOV to start. Pick the size of the FOV and the size of the reticle for the situation and put the parallax focus at where you anticipate the shot to be. In FFP you should still be able to make the shot even though the reticle appears smaller, "big target -deer, elk, etc" should be a fairly easy shot if you can find something to stable your position. The March 3-24x42 FFP FML1 I had was seeable at 3x but is thicker than most reticles at .07 mils so appeared thick-ish at 24x which isn't a bad thing for hunting. Actually you'd be surprised how much difference 3.5x or 4x does for making the reticle look bigger compared to 3x and the FOV isn't much smaller. No need to dial the turrets here and the reticle is just used like a plex, even wind doesn't need accounted for unless severe. You can always dial the turret so you get the standard 1.5"-2" high 100Y zero which puts shots slightly low at 300Y with most cartridges. Of course SFP scopes are more suitable for this type of point blank no brainer hunting.

Medium ranges, like 250Y to 500Y. RF, get your dope, build a position, and same thing as I said above, keep the mag turned down so you can find the animal in the FOV as quickly as possible, dial up mag right then as needed while looking through the scope. If it looks like there's barely any time left to make a shot, then your best holding over with the reticle and off for wind. That's what's nice about FFP, no concern about what mag the scope is on - a mil is a mil on any magnification and you don't necessarily need to dial the turrets to make accurate hits. Plenty of time to make a shot, do whatever you are most confident in doing. Most dial elevation and hold for wind.

I'd rather not take a shot if the target is far away and wind is over 10 mph. In normal winds I hold off but in a match last spring I found value in dialing both elevation and windage for those nasty winds, I doubt I would have cleaned a certain stage I did by holding off. Dialing allowed me to put the dot in the middle on every shot which in this case saved time because the targets were all at the same distance.

Personally for long range hunting I want calmer conditions. It doesn't take much wind to make a wounding shot.

Most SFP scopes have the reticle subtensions correct at "max mag" which can be a pain, especially with high magnification models. If you plan on dialing both elevation and windage most of the time then SFP starts making more sense.

Flat out, FFP is more versatile.

 

[Stinger78]

IMHO if you’re going to be taking shots at game out to 700 yards get yourself a nice range finder. Practice your reticle ranging at the range and have that skill in your pocket as a back up.

 

[wind gypsy]

Most common is to dial for elevation and hold for wind, which is why I find windage portion of the reticle more important on a hunting scope. I wouldn't want a SFP with a maximum mag greater than 18x because of this, and even that is pushing it. Using reticle to range is the last reason I'd think about going FFP.

As as far as going 42 vs 52 mm march, you also get improved eye relief forgiveness with the 52. That might not even be a good thing with how picky the parallax was on my march..

I'll be the odd man out and say I was unhappy the march 3-24x52 I bought for my 6.5 SAUM hunting rifle. Killswitch did a tracking test and came up with similar impressions as me. I found the parallax to be impossibly finicky and struggled to get the reticle consistently clear with parallax removed. If not for that and the less than awesome reticles, they are badass! In the end I found the 4.5-18 LRHS to be a more fitting choice for a hunting rifle at about a third of the price.

I have a leupy vx6 3-18x44 on a light 300 WSM that has worked sufficiently to 800 yards but that gun only comes hunting when I don't plan to shoot very far and doesn't see a lot of dialing. The turrets feel terrible compared to scopes meant to be dialed frequently.

I would cut weight on a stock/action/barrel before doing it with a 20 ounce scope.