Rifle Scopes Need some advice on selecting a scope from my final two...

[RickinLVN]

I finally have my scope list down to a final two. It has been decades since I was competent in the 500-1000 yard arena. Thus it has been about 45 days of relearning and in some cases forgetting, what I thought I knew about scopes...

The firearm is based on an AR15 platform.Some of the details are:
CALIBER: 224 Valkyrie
BARREL: 24” 1:7 Twist, 224 Valkyrie, Medium Taper 416SS, SBN
MUZZLE: SV Brake, threaded 1/2-28

My intended application is target shooting in the 500 to 1000 range. 90% bright daylight (I live in southern Nevada)

The final two on my list are:
Leupold VX-3i LRP 4.5-14x50mm Side Focus Riflescope with a Front Focal TMR (172338) reticle
Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen II First Focal Plane Riflescope 3-15X44 with a EBR-2C MOA reticle

I'd really appreciate some input that will help me finally make a decision...

 

[Longshot231]

I have the Vortex scope like the one that you are looking at but it is on a 5.56mm rifle. And it's in MRAD.

I also have the 224V in the form a Uintah bolt action AR-15 upper. However, I have the Vortex Viper PST Gen II FFP 5-25 X 50mm with the MRAD reticle.

I like the ability to go up to 25X on the long shots but, IMHO, 15X will also get you there.

Since you are wanting to shoot out to 1000 yards you should get a 20 MOA (or greater) elevation scope mount. I have the Vortex Extended Cantilever Mount with Integral Rings in 20 MOA.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2420108753?pid=108753

Using that configuration, I can get 17 MILS or over 57 MOA extra elevation from zero. I'm letting you know this as it takes a little over 10 mils or almost 34 MOA to get to 1,000 yards.

Without the extra elevation that the base can provide you might be mid range on the turret travel when you are zeroed in with the rifle.

According to Vortex the maximum elevation travel for the 3-15X is 75 MOA and it;s less for the 5-25X at 70 MOA.

As you can see, if you didn't have a 20 MOA base, you may be close on maximum elevation adjustment or run out of travel trying to hit something at 1,000 yards.

My apologies if it sounds like I was insulting your intelligence but I've been there and done that. The money spent for a 20 MOA base is worth it.

 

[acudaowner]

I believe you should be able to shoot your steel but doubt you will see your hits at either of those ranges with the mag ranges you mentioned .I do wish you a lot of luck as they both are nice scopes

 

[Jcrios014]

I believe you should be able to shoot your steel but doubt you will see your hits at either of those ranges with the mag ranges you mentioned .I do wish you a lot of luck as they both are nice scopes

I second this opinion. under 500yds either scope shouldn't be an issue spotting your impacts on steel. Once you get in the 700-1000 yd range it'll be a challenge for sure especially since you'll probably at the top of the magnification range.

 

[Longshot231]

I second this opinion. under 500yds either scope shouldn't be an issue spotting your impacts on steel. Once you get in the 700-1000 yd range it'll be a challenge for sure especially since you'll probably at the top of the magnification range.

Agreed. I missed that point on my earlier reply.

Like I said earlier, I have the 224V but topped with a 5-25X scope. The rifle is heavy and recoil is like shooting a .22LR and I can see the hits at 1,000 yards. That would be really difficult if I were not able to crank the magnification up.

That bullet is only 88 grains and even people spotting for me have a little difficulty seeing the impact at times.

 

[Jcrios014]

Agreed. I missed that point on my earlier reply.

Like I said earlier, I have the 224V but topped with a 5-25X scope. The rifle is heavy and recoil is like shooting a .22LR and I can see the hits at 1,000 yards. That would be really difficult if I were not able to crank the magnification up.

That bullet is only 88 grains and even people spotting for me have a little difficulty seeing the impact at times.

Yeah I ran a Burris XTR II 4-20 a couple of years ago when I began shooting PRS matches and 500yds and under weren't an issue. Since most of the matches I attended were 600yds and under it wasn't an issue. However, I did attend two matches were the distance was up to 1025yds and man was it a challenge to spot my misses anything past 750. Truth be told though I actually liked actually like my buddy's 5-25 viper though!

 

[Boltyboi]

Unless you really need the 3x, I'd get the pst 5-25

 

[RickinLVN]

I had hoped I would get valuable advise on this forum and I am certainly not disappointed !. The advice from Longshot 231 regarding mounting choice is very valued, and certainly not an insult.

So it would seem that the Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen II First Focal Plane Riflescope 5-25X50 with the EBR-7C reticle may be a better choice.

To Boltyboi's point "unless you really need the 3X" ... I assume that would only be a need if I was intending to use this setup for much shorter distances ... correct ?... and I am not intending to use this firearm that way ... setting it up for the longer stuff.

All of this input is very helpful, Thanks!

 

[Snuby642]

5x25 for 1000.

 

[army_eod]

You would want the high magnification. Do you consider illumination?

 

[Longshot231]

I had hoped I would get valuable advise on this forum and I am certainly not disappointed !. The advice from Longshot 231 regarding mounting choice is very valued, and certainly not an insult.

So it would seem that the Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen II First Focal Plane Riflescope 5-25X50 with the EBR-7C reticle may be a better choice.

To Boltyboi's point "unless you really need the 3X" ... I assume that would only be a need if I was intending to use this setup for much shorter distances ... correct ?... and I am not intending to use this firearm that way ... setting it up for the longer stuff.

All of this input is very helpful, Thanks!

It's going to cost you more money but you will not regret it.

You would want the high magnification. Do you consider illumination?

The Viper PST Gen II FFPS 5-25X50 comes with an illuminated reticle. That comes in nice when the lighting is really low and you have the magnification cranked down. In case @RickinLVN didn't know it; the cross hairs change size with changes in magnification on a first focal plane scope.

So at 5 power the cross hairs are smaller and thinner. In good lighting conditions, as most will agree, you can still see them.

However, when it's really early morning or early evening, those crosshairs are more difficult to pick up in the scope. Batteries are cheap and I turn the illumination on.

@RickinLVN, the 5-25X is expensive but worth every cent you pay for it. If you don't have the funds, consider a used one for sale on this forum or gunbroker.

Vortex has a lifetime no-questions-asked warranty. And they mean it!

I'll tell on myself a little. A few years ago, I bought their cheaper crossfire scopes and had problems with crosshair misalignment and breakage.

Those were the first Vortex scopes that I owned. I had to send three of them in for warranty service on three different occasions.

Each time, they sent me back a completely NEW scope. Prior to sending the third one back, I talked with the Vortex technician. He asked me if I was using the proper torque settings.

My gut reaction was "hey look buddy, you're not talking with an idiot. I know what I'm doing."

That's what I was thinking but didn't say it. I replied that I would go back and double-check the settings. So I looked at the old Craftsman torque drive. I discovered that I was using the wrong index to set the torque.

When I saw that I said, gosh darn, dag-nabit, shucks, and momma made a fudge cake! The actual torque settings were twice as high as what they recommended.

I switched to the fix-it-sticks and have never had a problem applying the correct torque ever again. I was the idiot who wasn't using the tool properly but Vortex came through with completely NEW scopes for me.

So if you get a used one and have problems with it, they will come through for you. https://vortexoptics.com/vip-warranty

 

[10ring'r]

I use a .223, AR, for 600yd. shoots regularly(longest I have available here in Wi.). I have a Vortex Viper GenII 5x25 FFP EBR-7c (moa) mounted on it and feel that it serves me well. Glad I went with the mentioned mag., I'm old and my eyes needed the extra mag. The glass, IMO, is great, although I have never looked thru a top-tier scope, ever, so, can't compare. As mentioned before, outstanding warranty/C.S., never had to use it and hope I won't need to. Have had no issues with mine and have about 800-900 rnds. down range with it. Good luck with your choice.
ETA: I have a thread on my tracking test, with the rifle and scope mentioned. It's under "OK, I've made my choice.......", (can't get it to quote) in this section.
Mac

 

[264win]

Of the scopes listed by OP I would definitely prefer the vortex.

 

[RickinLVN]

I've made my decision. I'll cry once and pony up the money for the Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen II First Focal Plane Riflescope 5-25X50 with the EBR-7c (moa) reticle...

My sincerest thanks for the advice provided here. I feel as good about finding this forum is I do about finally coming to a decision on a scope...

Thanks again !

 

[beetroot]

I had hoped I would get valuable advise on this forum and I am certainly not disappointed !. The advice from Longshot 231 regarding mounting choice is very valued, and certainly not an insult.

So it would seem that the Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen II First Focal Plane Riflescope 5-25X50 with the EBR-7C reticle may be a better choice.

To Boltyboi's point "unless you really need the 3X" ... I assume that would only be a need if I was intending to use this setup for much shorter distances ... correct ?... and I am not intending to use this firearm that way ... setting it up for the longer stuff.

All of this input is very helpful, Thanks!

Yes, unless you intend to use 3x for close range shooting the 3-15 is at a disadvantage. The scope is physically smaller and lighter which may be beneficial on an AR but ultimately the 5-25 is better suited to long range shooting.

That being said I have a 3-15 PST with the EBR 7c that I have shot out too 600meters at a match and it was not an issue, also used it a lot on my 22lr and its been great.
Virtually never use it on less than 6x though, so in most situations the 5-25 would be a better option as it gives you the option of more magnification.

 

[Longshot231]

I've made my decision. I'll cry once and pony up the money for the Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen II First Focal Plane Riflescope 5-25X50 with the EBR-7c (moa) reticle...

My sincerest thanks for the advice provided here. I feel as good about finding this forum is I do about finally coming to a decision on a scope...

Thanks again !

Maybe you already know this but you may want to obtain an anti-cant device for your scope.



I like the Vortex anti-cant device. The more inexpensive version, to me, is better. I like it because it's easier to install. I've had their more expensive steel version before but had problems installing it. My problem was where the allen screw was located. I couldn't manipulate the allen wrench and still keep the level from moving.

Others may not have that trouble but I did.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2420170153

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2420405019

Sorry to keep suggesting that you spend more money but the throw lever is really nice for adjusting magnification very quickly. I like to keep the magnification turned down to locate the target. Once the target is located, I position my body and the rifle to get everything aligned and the target close to the crosshairs. Once in a good position, I can move that throw lever placing the magnification at a higher setting without struggling to grip the magnification ring and losing sight of the target in the scope - again!

When you go to the range and you see someone with one of these on their scope, watch how quickly they can get on target with their rifles. Ask them if you can get behind their rifle and try it for yourself and you will see what I mean.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/102089201

We are enablers here and your wife will hate us.

 

[RickinLVN]

Longshot231, your advice is very much appreciated !
I'll admit that while the logic behind needing such an addition to my build seems quite obvious, I never even thought of it .
I keep reminding myself "you do not know what you do not know"... Fortunately my wife, at least so far, has raised no objections
Thanks again...

 

[Zuul]

Not to throw the thread off topic but are you running a semi auto or Uintah upper? If your running the Uintah how do you like it?

 

[Longshot231]

Not to throw the thread off topic but are you running a semi auto or Uintah upper? If your running the Uintah how do you like it?

I'm running a Uintah upper. I like it a lot.

Pay attention to the trigger compatibility. Use the triggers that they recommend.

I used the magazines that they recommended but had a lot of trouble with them. I had to bend the feed lips to get them to work. Then I tried the AR Stoner magazines with the same problem. Furthermore, I could not load more than ten rounds in a magazine without the top round taking a nose dive into the feed ramp.

On another forum someone recommended Precision Reflex Industries (PRI) magazines. I got the 15 round versions just like I did with the AR Stoners.

The PRI magazines work flawlessly. And I can load 15 rounds in them without failure. If you compare the 15 round PRI magazines to the AR Stoner with the same capacity, you will notice a slight curve with the former.

I believe that's why the PRI 15-round magazines will work to full capacity - because of the curve.

IMHO, you don't want anything more than 15 rounds as you will be shooting prone or off the bench for the 1000 yard stuff.

I have one of the earlier version in 1:7 barrel twist. You can get them in 1:6.5 twist now. I like my 1:7 but thinking about ordering another barrel in 1:6.5 and 26" long.

 

[chevy_man]

I've made my decision. I'll cry once and pony up the money for the Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen II First Focal Plane Riflescope 5-25X50 with the EBR-7c (moa) reticle...

My sincerest thanks for the advice provided here. I feel as good about finding this forum is I do about finally coming to a decision on a scope...

Thanks again !

Food for thought (and since you were looking at the TMR MIL) I'd suggest going with a mill scope (EBR7c comes in mil). When you end up at matches it helps to talk the same language.

Their is nothing wrong with either one, they're both just a measurement. Most here would agree the base 10 measurements are easier to remember and manipulate on the clock.

Just ran into this at the last nrl match. New guy showed up with a moa scope and 90% of us were opening our ballistic apps trying to get him sorted rather than just being able to tell him "I was holding 3.5 mills". Not that we weren't trying to help, but it was confusing for him for a minute when he asked a hold and got told simply 3.5, and was feet under the target.

 

[RickinLVN]

Thanks for the advice...I suspect I'll be doing alot of learning / practice / experimentation before I get to a match... I'll add some brushing up on moa to mil math onto the growing list...

 

[chevy_man]

Thanks for the advice...I suspect I'll be doing alot of learning / practice / experimentation before I get to a match... I'll add some brushing up on moa to mil math onto the growing list...

Don't convert. So long as you buy a mill turret, mill reticle. Don't waste time trying the old moa turret with mill dots idiocy our military bought into.

Simply measure with your ruler. Miss 3 mills low and 2 mills left? Dial up 3 mills and hold 2 mills. (I like to dial elevation, hold wind.) Don't think in feet or inches. Think in marks on your ruler.

Dope card and ballistic calculators. A simple sheet of how much drop per 50 yards taped to the stock saves a lot of math.
Strelok pro for example:



This applies to either system. Just don't get caught up in "using moa because it's inches" because it's really not and there are several variations on moa.