Need some guidance on loading

[upsdownsideways]

Be forewarned, I am a bit obtuse when it comes to trying to explain something via text. (I am a visual thinker) So, I might be asking a few follow up questions so I can grasp my head around it.

My layout;

RCBS Rockchucker Single Press

RCBS Scale w/Powder Dispenser (hand powered)

Redding full size die w/.289 bushing, and Redding Micrometer seating die.

6.5 CM, Lapua Brass w/ Berger 140g Hybrid Target ammo.


A common theme I keep running into with the dies, is when I screw them into the press, I feel like I am starting from scratch on adjusting it to the right height. The locking ring tends to get stuck when I try and take it out, and I need to loosen it so I can get the die unscrewed.

This is more apparent in the seating die, as I am concerned with pushing the bullet too far into the brass, and not being able to adjust it anymore.

The powder I have 0 problems with, as well as the priming. It is the die side of things that gets lengthy, especially the seating part as I feel I need to start from scratch every time I put the die back in the press.

Even when I get a good seating height for the round, the next one could be a bit off. I have it is because of the bullets point not being all the same, so when I measure it varies a few thousand from round to round.

Is there any tips around this? Should I look into getting another press where I don't have to remove the die for the two stages of handloading?

EDIT: Let me add I am measuring for the size of the magazine. I am not a single feed loader.

 

[Tokay444]

The locking is meant to lock, or "get stuck".
What's the issue?

 

[MtnCreek]

If you want to spend a few bucks.

Forster die lock rings.
Redding comp shellholder set.
***Hornady or Sinclair cartridge measuring tool.** (A must IMHO).

 

[upsdownsideways]

When I unlock it, and I unscrew the die out, it loses its place.

So when I put the seating die back in at a later time, it isn't in the correct position as before.

 

[upsdownsideways]

If you want to spend a few bucks.

Forster die lock rings.
Redding comp shellholder set.
***Hornady or Sinclair cartridge measuring tool.** (A must IMHO).

1) What is the difference between that and what is on the die I have?

2) What would that do?

3) https://www.hornady.com/reloading/p...tools-and-gauges/oal-gauges-modified-cases#!/ This?

 

[Tokay444]

When I unlock it, and I unscrew the die out, it loses its place.

So when I put the seating die back in at a later time, it isn't in the correct position as before.

Why would you unlock it? It locks so that it goes to the same place in the press every time.

 

[upsdownsideways]

Why would you unlock it? It locks so that it goes to the same place in the press every time.

If I don't, and loosen it a bit, it gets stuck to the RCBS press insert that the die is screwed into. (I don't know what the part is called)

 

[Tokay444]

Then you're doing it wrong.
You do not loosen the locking ring once it's set. If you can't get the die out of the press, you've tightened the ring too much.

 

[upsdownsideways]

Then you're doing it wrong.

Enlighten me.

 

[Tokay444]

This isn't rocket surgery. If you can't take the die out of the press without loosening the locking ring, you've completely defeated the purpose of the ring.

 

[MtnCreek]

1) What is the difference between that and what is on the die I have?

2) What would that do?

3) https://www.hornady.com/reloading/p...tools-and-gauges/oal-gauges-modified-cases#!/ This?

1)
A good lock ring:

A shitty lock ring:

2) Makes die setup from scratch easy. Unnecessary, but nice.

3) You need a way to measure bullet seating depth to bullet ogive. Also a way to measure cartridge case from head to datum.

 

[upsdownsideways]

1)
A good lock ring:

A shitty lock ring:

2) Makes die setup from scratch easy. Unnecessary, but nice.

3) You need a way to measure bullet seating depth to bullet ogive. Also a way to measure cartridge case from head to datum.

1) That ring is what is on the redding dies.

2) Ok, I'll look into that.

3) Problem is I am measuring for the magazine, not the ogive. So, with that said, how do I measure the ogive in relation to the max COAL of the magazine?

 

[upsdownsideways]

This isn't rocket surgery. If you can't take the die out of the press without loosening the locking ring, you've completely defeated the purpose of the ring.

See that black piece at the top? When I start to screw the die out, that piece does with it as if its stuck to it.

 

[OREGUN]

Measure the length of the longest COAL you can tolerate. Measure the ogive length. Load/seat to the ogive length and ignore the COAL...assuming you don’t change bullets. Regarding the locking ring...I use hornady’s lock and load die bushings with an RCBS rock chucker. The bushing stays on the dies and each one fits into the adapter in the press. It easier for me to switch dies without resetting stuff each time. I also seat in an in-line die/arbor press instead of the rock chucker....it seams more consistent. Your mileage may vary. This setup loads .5 MOA or better ammo which is all the better I can regularly shoot anyway.

 

[MtnCreek]

See that black piece at the top? When I start to screw the die out, that piece does with it as if its stuck to it.

The black piece wants to thread out with the die???

 

[Tokay444]

See that black piece at the top? When I start to screw the die out, that piece does with it as if its stuck to it.

Then you've tightened the die down too tight.

 

[OREGUN]

See that black piece at the top? When I start to screw the die out, that piece does with it as if its stuck to it.

Less torque on the die/lock ring or perhaps put a wrench on it to hold it in place as you unscrew the die. Maybe torque that bushing with a big wrench...add some blue loctite?

 

[spife7980]

1) That ring is what is on the redding dies.

Take the pos redding lock ring off, screw the set screw all the way in so that it exposes the lead tip on the inside threads and take that lead crap off. Then it will function like a good lock ring. Just dont go super crazy tightening it onto the die, you dont want to roll the threads, just needs to be snug to hold it in place.

See that black piece at the top? When I start to screw the die out, that piece does with it as if its stuck to it.

I would take a little blue thread locker and put a small dab on black hex piece bushing and then tighten it down with a wrench so that it doesnt spin out easily.




Once you have the large bushing held securely in place and the redding shit ring fixed youll find it works like it should and finger pressure will be adequate when screwing the die in and out.

 

[upsdownsideways]

The black piece wants to thread out with the die???

Yes. It comes out with it.

 

[upsdownsideways]

Measure the length of the longest COAL you can tolerate. Measure the ogive length. Load/seat to the ogive length and ignore the COAL...assuming you don’t change bullets. Regarding the locking ring...I use hornady’s lock and load die bushings with an RCBS rock chucker. The bushing stays on the dies and each one fits into the adapter in the press. It easier for me to switch dies without resetting stuff each time. I also seat in an in-line die/arbor press instead of the rock chucker....it seams more consistent. Your mileage may vary. This setup loads .5 MOA or better ammo which is all the better I can regularly shoot anyway.

Ok, just so we're on the same page.

Max size of the COAL I can tolerate is about 2.860" in the magazines. Anything more appears to be pushing it.

So, I would seat the round at that distance, measure the ogive and then after that just ensure the ogive is approximately that length rather than measuring for the COAL?

 

[MtnCreek]

Yes. It comes out with it.

I'd check to see if the threads feel right (not obviously loose fitting). Torque well to goodntight. Die should not be torqued in hard.

 

[OREGUN]

Ok, just so we're on the same page.

Max size of the COAL I can tolerate is about 2.860" in the magazines. Anything more appears to be pushing it.

So, I would seat the round at that distance, measure the ogive and then after that just ensure the ogive is approximately that length rather than measuring for the COAL?

That’s exactly what I do. Find the ogive that matches your magazine-fitting COAL and then dont worry about measuring every COAL...the bullet tip variance will change a little...the ogive should not. Ogive is what interacts with the rifling and is the thing to make consistent.

 

[upsdownsideways]

Take the pos redding lock ring off, screw the set screw all the way in so that it exposes the lead tip on the inside threads and take that lead crap off. Then it will function like a good lock ring. Just dont go super crazy tightening it onto the die, you dont want to roll the threads, just needs to be snug to hold it in place.




I would take a little blue thread locker and put a small dab on black hex piece bushing and then tighten it down with a wrench so that it doesnt spin out easily.




Once you have the large bushing held securely in place and the redding shit ring fixed youll find it works like it should and finger pressure will be adequate when screwing the die in and out.

Ok, I'll go get some of this.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-Threadlocker-Blue-242-0-20-fl-oz-Specialty-Glue-209728/100371826

 

[stewarmy01]

Ok, I have had this problem in the past. Do not tighten your lock ring when it is all the way down in position touching the press. Once you find where you want the die, back of the die and the lock ring simultaneously a hair off the press, tighten your lock ring set screw, and screw back down to touching the press. The ring distorts things and locks onto the press when you tighten the lock ring when it is in contact with the press. Hope all that makes sense. The cause on the set screw types may be the thread pitch causing distortion as the lead engages the tapers of the thread. For split ring, the opposing sides of the ring become less than flat, putting pressure on the press. Once again find your spot, back off die and ring at the same time so as to not be touching the press, tighten lock ring, and screw back down into press until touching.

 

[OREGUN]

I don’t remember why I went to the Hornady bushing system but it had something to do with changing calibers and not wanting to deal with the RCBS press insert coming out/having to reseat dies to get what I wanted...I was also really new to reloading when I made the switch so I may have been effing it up. Now I’m use to it and I set a die in a bushing once and rarely touch it again. No real complaints. Looks like this:

 

[upsdownsideways]

Ok, I have had this problem in the past. Do not tighten your lock ring when it is all the way down in position touching the press. Once you find where you want the die, back of the die and the lock ring simultaneously a hair off the press, tighten your lock ring set screw, and screw back down to touching the press. The ring distorts things and locks onto the press when you tighten the lock ring when it is in contact with the press. Hope all that makes sense. The cause on the set screw types may be the thread pitch causing distortion as the lead engages the tapers of the thread. For split ring, the opposing sides of the ring become less than flat, putting pressure on the press. Once again find your spot, back off die and ring at the same time so as to not be touching the press, tighten lock ring, and screw back down into press until touching.

Awesome, thank you.

 

[stewarmy01]

I used the hornady lnl bushing system as well. If you tighten the lock ring when it is in contact with the bushing, the same thing happens. Not a problem if you never move your die, but I have various makers of brass of the same caliber, so I need to change often. If you don’t anneal and don’t have the same maker of brass you will encounter problems. I ditched it PDQ.

 

[upsdownsideways]

I used the hornady lnl bushing system as well. If you tighten the lock ring when it is in contact with the bushing, the same thing happens. Not a problem if you never move your die, but I have various makers of brass of the same caliber, so I need to change often. If you don’t anneal and don’t have the same maker of brass you will encounter problems. I ditched it PDQ.

I only load 6.5, in one brass.. but I don't anneal, so I guess I won't be using this.

 

[stewarmy01]

Why not annealing would present problems is because each time you reload your brass, it work hardens. Work hardening causes more brass “spring back” which would cause you to need to screw your die in a hair to maintain the same amount of shoulder bump relative to previous loadings. For example, generally, if you shot and sized a piece of brass several times without annealing, you would find that you would need to screw in the die to maintain the same amount of shoulder bump as realized in resizing sequence number 1.

 

[NH4X]

Once you get die and lock ring set where you want them, take fine point permanent marker and mark top of press , lock ring and die body as a reference. .....makes things easyer the next time you screw die in to get back to where you were..........hope you understand what im trying to say

 

[stewarmy01]

That is a great suggestion NH4X! I do that as well and forgot to mention/didn’t cross my mind.

 

[OREGUN]

That is a great suggestion NH4X! I do that as well and forgot to mention/didn’t cross my mind.

Me too.

 

[upsdownsideways]

Thanks guys.

 

[Onewolf42]

This whole message thread is one of the reasons I love my Redding T7 turret press. No die swapping required. I have 4 turret heads and it takes about 45 seconds to swap turret heads when I need to.

 

[upsdownsideways]

This whole message thread is one of the reasons I love my Redding T7 turret press. No die swapping required. I have 4 turret heads and it takes about 45 seconds to swap turret heads when I need to.

Don't tempt me lol

 

[ditter]

Another rockchucker press user here. I use the Hornady Lock and Load bushings with Hornady lock rings. works awesome. I have redding dies, but their lock rings are awful.

 

[upsdownsideways]

Ok, I have had this problem in the past. Do not tighten your lock ring when it is all the way down in position touching the press. Once you find where you want the die, back of the die and the lock ring simultaneously a hair off the press, tighten your lock ring set screw, and screw back down to touching the press. The ring distorts things and locks onto the press when you tighten the lock ring when it is in contact with the press. Hope all that makes sense. The cause on the set screw types may be the thread pitch causing distortion as the lead engages the tapers of the thread. For split ring, the opposing sides of the ring become less than flat, putting pressure on the press. Once again find your spot, back off die and ring at the same time so as to not be touching the press, tighten lock ring, and screw back down into press until touching.

I did this earlier and it worked great.

Thanks.

 

[stewarmy01]

Good deal, glad I could help

 

[High Desert duck]

I only load 6.5, in one brass.. but I don't anneal, so I guess I won't be using this.

I use the LnL bushing in my rock crusher and only anneal every 4-5 firings. I almost never mess with resetting the die and have not it make a difference on paper or steel.
Which seating stem are you using. I haven’t shot the Berger’s but even with the 140 ELD-m I had to change out to a VLD stem

edited for typo. Damn spell check

 

[upsdownsideways]

Redding Comp Die Set

 

[High Desert duck]

Redding Comp Die Set

Thinking that was a reply to my question.
with a long nosed bullet often times a stock seating stem will make contact with the bullet nose, resulting in inconsistent seating depths and in rare cases billet meplat/tip distortion.
My last Creedmoor Was a 25 cal and the bullets is very long infront of the ogive. I replaced the stock seating stem with the Redding long VLD stem and fixed the problem.
Click here for the Redding application chart. brownell’s sells them.

 

[upsdownsideways]

Thinking that was a reply to my question.
with a long nosed bullet often times a stock seating stem will make contact with the bullet nose, resulting in inconsistent seating depths and in rare cases billet meplat/tip distortion.
My last Creedmoor Was a 25 cal and the bullets is very long infront of the ogive. I replaced the stock seating stem with the Redding long VLD stem and fixed the problem.
Click here for the Redding application chart. brownell’s sells them.

Sorry, I did mean to quote you.

Are VLDs the same as hybrids? I know Berger makes 140 VLD and 140 Hybrid bullets.

 

[Tokay444]

Sorry, I did mean to quote you.

Are VLDs the same as hybrids? I know Berger makes 140 VLD and 140 Hybrid bullets.

No. If they were the same, they wouldn't make both.

 

[upsdownsideways]

No. If they were the same, they wouldn't make both.

Ok. Well, the hybrids weren't listed on the chart, hence my question.

 

[OREGUN]

The first couple paragraphs compare vld to hybrid.

Berger Hybrid Bullets - From Design to Reality

ne of the exciting challenges of rifle shooting is keeping up with new products and technologies. Shooters are constantly looking for ways to get greater accuracy and precision from their equipment. Rifle bullets in particular have come a long way – from musket balls to copper jacketed bullets...

bergerbullets.com

 

[upsdownsideways]

The first couple paragraphs compare vld to hybrid.

Berger Hybrid Bullets - From Design to Reality

ne of the exciting challenges of rifle shooting is keeping up with new products and technologies. Shooters are constantly looking for ways to get greater accuracy and precision from their equipment. Rifle bullets in particular have come a long way – from musket balls to copper jacketed bullets...

bergerbullets.com

Thanks.

 

[High Desert duck]

Sorry, I did mean to quote you.

Are VLDs the same as hybrids? I know Berger makes 140 VLD and 140 Hybrid bullets.

No sweat. It’s cool. The chart when they use the term VLD they are just referring generically to any high BC long nosed bullet, not necessarily the designated name. Basically the seater stem has a much deeper hole in it with a similar ogive contact