New .224 77gr Nosler RDF

[TonyTheTiger]

https://www.nosler.com/rdf-bullet
No BC's listed yet but the weight is mid way between the .41bc 70gr RDF and the .5bc 85gr RDF, these could theoretically be in the .45bc area which would be a big deal if they're designed to feed from AR mags.

Honestly the 70gr RDF's didn't want to shoot that well for me but I'm a bullet whore so I'll probably try these anyway.

 

[Doc68]

Well the G7 for the 70gr is .211 and 85gr is .245 so im guessing somewhere in the middle of those 2 numbers. These are per strelok pro ballistic calculator.

 

[Tex_ponch]

I am trying to find some good data on a varmint load for my 224. I was thinking some 60vmax, but I am not sure.

 

[shotdown]

I shoot for Nosler but I haven’t gotten any of the 77 gr RDF to test yet. However, some of my friends have tested them and are getting about .230 G7 BC at the moment.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I shoot for Nosler but I haven’t gotten any of the 77 gr RDF to test yet. However, some of my friends have tested them and are getting about .230 G7 BC at the moment.

Any idea if these were designed with AR mag lengths in mind?

 

[shotdown]

Any idea if these were designed with AR mag lengths in mind?

I asked the question and was told yes. However, I don’t have any personal experience with them at this time. I have only tested the 115 gr RDF recently.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

115 gr RDF

I love new bullets....

 

[spife7980]

I asked the question and was told yes. However, I don’t have any personal experience with them at this time. I have only tested the 115 gr RDF recently.

115 rdf? You mean 105 or is there something out there that isn’t advertised yet?

 

[shotdown]

115 rdf? You mean 105 or is there something out there that isn’t advertised yet?

The 115 gr RDF will be released soon. You can find more info on my Facebook page.

 

[spife7980]

Well damn, I already trued my 105 bc up to .310 to line my data up, makes me wonder how much better these will fly.

 

[Sheldon N]

Well damn, I already trued my 105 bc up to .310 to line my data up

No way you're getting .310 out of a 105 bullet... unless it's a flatline or something. I know many many guys who have run or tested the RDF's and the highest I've heard of is mid .290's.

The preliminary reports on the 115 from my buddies who have tested put the 115 in the neighborhood of .310.

 

[spife7980]

Don’t know what to say, it’s what lines it up. I even set it back to .280 for this most recent new lot but had to turn it back up to get things to line back up at distance. Velocity via ms3 and lab radar.
6xc, 24” 7.5 twist criterion, 4x norma brass, cci200, 105 rdf sps blems, 39.5gr 4350, seated 2.120 ogive so .015 from touching at 2.135
I’ll take data in the morning via labradar while zeroing (and every other shot as well). I’ll enter that into my BallisticsARC (jbm engine) and see what it says. I’ll then shoot at 500 to verify velocity and then I’ll shot to 810 to trim the bc as that’s all I have access to during hunting season. Luckily I can do all this from the same seat at my bench.
But it worked for me consistently at 1050 last summer and carried me all the way to 1570

I’ll run it again in the morning but it’s been working for me for at least a year now.

 

[Sheldon N]

If you're truing with really good visualization of exact impact waterline at 1200+ yards then it is was it is. 800 yards is pretty close to try to true BC, Jumping from .290 to .310 only results in 0.1 vertical difference at that distance.

 

[spife7980]

Yep but 810 is all I have for a few weeks still, hopefully I’ll be able to get back to my 1k+ before too long.
I put a red spray paint dot in the middle of the full size ipsc and read it in relation to that. I’ll even put out some paper to shoot on if I have time. Funeral at 2 so my day will get cut a bit shorter than I would like but I should have enough time.

Edit: 20-25 mph sustained winds according to the weather and gusts up to 40 mph. This test may not work too well.

 

[spife7980]

Weather

Rifle Profile

Set up

Zero- Cold bore bottom right, #2-7 are the group but Im not actually going to change my zero setting because its really windy, so noted as one tenth high as is.

500 Yards 66% ipsc- Lots of wind... I didnt dial any windage, just going to shoot to see where it would land. Where did the first one land? The center of the next plate over on this KYL rack . Dial .9 mils right and I put a few on it missing one off to the right, but centered vertically.

800 yards- Sent the first three off the left side of the plate, wind seems to have been dying as they worked their way back to the right.

So I was hitting slightly above but my highest hit was 2" above perfect. And Im too stupid to calculate exactly how much the 2" im hitting high is at 810 yards in mils (something like .04 mils?) so I will instead switch the ballisticsarc settings to inches to get some actual numbers here, I can clearly see the difference on the reticle but its tougher to get a pic of to show.
With a .310 BC it calls for 5 mils (146"), with a .280 it calls for 5.3 mils (153"). 153-146=7" of difference, with a .280 I would have dialed and been hitting 7" higher. Which is what I saw when I first was truing this, only it was more like a foot+ at 1050.

So Im hitting less than .1 mil high at 810 and my zero was about .1 high at 100. I might be able to throttle it down a bit but it lines up pretty well.



Needles to say, I kind of wish I hadnt bought 1k of the 75 eld, I feel bad buying new bullets to tinker with when there are still so many left overs from before that need to be shot. And Im really looking forward to the 115 RDF, Ill probably try to run them through my future dasher I hope to have done in the next few months.

I really like these RDFs even though I couldnt get the 70 to shoot in my old undertwisted barrel.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Got some in hand now.
Left to right: 70gr RDF, 77gr RDF, 77gr Custom Competition

77gr CC vs. 77gr RDF case capacity intrusion with both seated at 2.26" OAL:

The 77 RDF ogive clearly works at AR mag lengths but don't expect to fit a ton of powder in there.

 

[bwg13]

I’ve been using 80 gr Nosler Custom Comps in my Valkyrie and haven’t had results that impress me yet. So far, I’ve been able to get the factory 75 gr FMJ to perform just as well out to 600 yds ( farthest I’ve been able to shoot the 80gr CC). May give the RDFs a try, although the pics from Tony have me concerned that velocities will actually be lower given the powder capacity available.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Was going to do a thorough load workup today, but a high temp of 3 degrees and lots of snow didn't make me feel very scientific so instead I just threw 23.4gr of XBR in some prepped LC cases at max mag length on my 550 and ended up shooting a bunch instead of any serious testing.

I was pleasantly surprised by them. Before I talk about group sizes I'll preface with rifle details. It's my 16" rifle gas 3 gun blaster with a 1-6x optic with a fairly coarse reticle. Not a benchrest gun by any means and I don't want max pressure loads because of the low mass components/light springs in the gun, and reliability trumps ballistics every time for match use.

That out of the way, 4 five shot groups averaged right at 1" which is actually about as good as I can usually do with a 6x optic while lifting my head between shots to write down velocities. Velocities were better than expected at 2650fps avg with 50fps extreme spread (remember, charged on a progressive press for 3 gun, not F-class..) with only slight primer flattening, and that doesn't take much with CCI400's.

The only steel not buried by snow was at 400 yards and using a .45 G1 BC got centered hits on a 6" plate using exactly the holdover Strelok predicted. Obviously that's not far enough to accurately true up BC but it must be ballpark.

I'll do more testing when it gets warmer and test them in my precision AR but I think I'm off to a good start for my intended use. If it holds 1 MOA-ish and doesn't exhibit the wild random flyers I always had with the 70gr RDF's I'll be satisfied.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Starting to dig these 77 RDF's. Still shooting the 23.4gr 8208 load with no real development, decided to throw ten rounds at paper today at 95yds (the snow was a foot deeper at 100yds, and I was prone) and this happened:

So a nine of ten shot group at .6ish while using a snowball as a rear bag. I'll take it.

 

[shotdown]

Still waiting for some 77gr RDF to test myself.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Kinda forgot about this thread till it was mentioned elsewhere.
Still pleased with these bullets, still successfully using a .45 G1 BC. I don't shoot for groups after load development but below are two 3 shot groups fired two weeks apart at 200yds that made me smile.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Happened to be shooting groups with my precision AR tonight and I was frustrated with how the 75 ELD's shoot well one day and not the next. On a whim I decided to shoot some of my 77 RDF loads through it. I was pretty pleased with the way that went.

Thats 3 consecutive 5 shot groups, largest about .68 and smallest at .46, with zero load development.

 

[MarinePMI]

Happened to be shooting groups with my precision AR tonight and I was frustrated with how the 75 ELD's shoot well one day and not the next. On a whim I decided to shoot some of my 77 RDF loads through it. I was pretty pleased with the way that went.View attachment 7062583
Thats 3 consecutive 5 shot groups, largest about .68 and smallest at .46, with zero load development.

Lemme guess; 23.4grs of XBR? Seems to be one of those nodes/loads that works in most .223 chambered guns for anything 69grs and up...

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Lemme guess; 23.4grs of XBR? Seems to be one of those nodes/loads that works in most .223 chambered guns for anything 69grs and up...

Yes sir. It's like the 223 easy button.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Off topic but a follow up post about how the 75 ELD's are suddenly shooting poorly. Turns out my throat is toast at only around 2200-2400 rounds. I loaded a dummy cartridge with the RDF's as long as I could, somewhere around 2.6" before it falls out of the neck, just to get a rough idea where it hits lands. Well it didn't. Same with the ELD's. Turns out I can drop a bullet in and fully chamber a dummy case with a closed neck without touching the base of the bullet.
So good news is that the RDF's are obviously jump tolerant if they continue to shoot well in a torched barrel, bad news is that I'm on this barrels last leg at what I would consider a low round count.

 

[Sub-MOA]

Off topic but a follow up post about how the 75 ELD's are suddenly shooting poorly. Turns out my throat is toast at only around 2200-2400 rounds. I loaded a dummy cartridge with the RDF's as long as I could, somewhere around 2.6" before it falls out of the neck, just to get a rough idea where it hits lands. Well it didn't. Same with the ELD's. Turns out I can drop a bullet in and fully chamber a dummy case with a closed neck without touching the base of the bullet.
So good news is that the RDF's are obviously jump tolerant if they continue to shoot well in a torched barrel, bad news is that I'm on this barrels last leg at what I would consider a low round count.

The RDFs are indeed very tolerant of jump. 175 gr RDFs @ 2.830" in my Criterion-barreled AR10 will do 1/2 MOA groups consistently.

Surprised your throat is gone at such a low round count for 223. Was it a 416R raw stainless barrel, or was it nitrided/chrome lined?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Surprised your throat is gone at such a low round count for 223. Was it a 416R raw stainless barrel, or was it nitrided/chrome lined?

You and I both. Its a 416R raw SS from Black Hole Weaponry. I never checked the freebore when new but there's no way it was this long.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Nope. The internet said you should get 5000rds out of a .223. You're obviously doing something wrong.

Can't tell if thats sarcasm or not.
Either way, the internet also said you have a huge dick, so its obviously not trustworthy...

 

[Sub-MOA]

You and I both. Its a 416R raw SS from Black Hole Weaponry. I never checked the freebore when new but there's no way it was this long.

I recommend looking at the Criterion 223 offerings when you get ready to swap the barrel. Their chrome-lined hybrid contour and HBAR barrels (button rifled + hand lapped) are pretty incredible for the price and I've seen several shoot 1 to 1.5 MOA groups with regular ol' American Eagle 55 gr. Plus, you get all the advantages that chrome lining provides for barrel life.

Btw, Hornady ELDs have never been particularly consistent for me either, although I've only tried the 73 gr and not the 75.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I recommend looking at the Criterion 223 offerings when you get ready to swap the barrel. Their chrome-lined hybrid contour and HBAR barrels (button rifled + hand lapped) are pretty incredible for the price and I've seen several shoot 1 to 1.5 MOA groups with regular ol' American Eagle 55 gr. Plus, you get all the advantages that chrome lining provides for barrel life.

Btw, Hornady ELDs have never been particularly consistent for me either, although I've only tried the 73 gr and not the 75.

I know quite a few guys happy with Criterion barrels and I've looked over their offerings quite a few times but they just don't have anything that quite suits my needs for this rifle.
I actually had really good luck with the 73 ELD's, and then the 75's once I figured out they had to be a lot closer to the lands before they'd shoot.

 

[Sub-MOA]

Official BC figures up:

 

[FLIGHT762]

I finally got out to try the 77 RDF's. Shot in a 20" WOA service rifle barrel upper and a 18" Rainier SPR ultra match upper. I tried loads using 8208 XBR, AR Comp, Varget and H-4985. Loads were 15 rounds each for 3-five shot groups.

WOA barrel didn't like any of the loads. shot 1.5-2" groups. The only load the Ranier did okay wit h was the 23.5 8208 load. 3- five round group was 1.2"-1.28".

Interestingly, the AR Comp load was 21.9 Grains. This was near max (22.1) from the Alliant data. One rifle wouldn't cycle, the other rifle, barely cycled and both showed the load was anemic, ligher recoil from the other loads. This was a 2013 lot of AR Comp. I'm going to try AR Comp again @ about 22.9 grains and see what I get.

Both of these rifles will shoot 77 Sierra MK and 75 Hornady OTM under 1 MOA.

I had tried the 70 grain RDF's in these rifles and found the same inaccuracy.

Too bad, I was hoping the 77 RDF's would shoot as well as the Sierra 77.

 

[MarinePMI]

Just my experience, but RDF's like to be run hot, and with a good jump (which in an AR ain't an issue).

 

[mcfred]

I tried some 77RDFs last weekend. At the lands with VV N140, some Varget and some IMR4166. All were Sub MOA at 200yds from a 24" 1:8tw bolt-gun, but nothing special. I did not do extensive load work up but FWIW, IMR4166 was more accurate (.6-.7MOA 5-round group) than the other two powders and marginally faster than Varget for the same charge weight.

OALs were ~2.355" at the lands with a SAAMI-spec Manson reamered chamber.

Maybe I'll try jumping them from mag-length next time.

 

[918v]

I haven’t tried these but I’ve shot the 175RDF a lot and they shoot inside a dime at 2.835” while jumping .100” in my 308. You don’t need to be near the lands for good accuracy.

 

[mcfred]

While that may be, the 70RDFs I tried in .223Rem shot poorly with a hard jam and only got worse the farther from the lands I got. Based on that experience I have been inclined to set the RDFs close to the lands. Like I said, I'll try to jump the 77s. It is a different bullet than the 70s (and the 175 .308"s) after all. I have a .204 Ruger that will shoot well with over .100" jump. That's half the bullet diameter!

 

[DGD6MM]

Following.

 

[Dstoenner]

While that may be, the 70RDFs I tried in .223Rem shot poorly with a hard jam and only got worse the farther from the lands I got. Based on that experience I have been inclined to set the RDFs close to the lands. Like I said, I'll try to jump the 77s. It is a different bullet than the 70s (and the 175 .308"s) after all. I have a .204 Ruger that will shoot well with over .100" jump. That's half the bullet diameter!

I couldn’t get the 70 rdf’s to shot in either my bolt gun or match AR15. I just got some 77’s to try. I keep hoping one of these will stick. So far nothing is better than Berger

David

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Off topic but a follow up post about how the 75 ELD's are suddenly shooting poorly. Turns out my throat is toast at only around 2200-2400 rounds. I loaded a dummy cartridge with the RDF's as long as I could, somewhere around 2.6" before it falls out of the neck, just to get a rough idea where it hits lands. Well it didn't. Same with the ELD's. Turns out I can drop a bullet in and fully chamber a dummy case with a closed neck without touching the base of the bullet.
So good news is that the RDF's are obviously jump tolerant if they continue to shoot well in a torched barrel, bad news is that I'm on this barrels last leg at what I would consider a low round count.

Another off topic follow up to this. Tried the 75ELD's one more time and they still sucked, even in between the 30mph wind gusts. Decided to throw together a generic load with some bullets I had on hand, 24gr of 8208 in LC brass with CCI400's loaded at my max mag length (2.4"ish).
Used 77TMK's, 70RDF's 77RDF's and 77 Custom Comps. Shot two 5 shot groups with each, and the eight groups with zero load development averaged .64", which I can't complain about considering my disinterest/lack of skill for group shooting.

So even though the barrel is done shooting the ELD's its still interested in other bullets.

 

[sergeantpepper]

Was going to do a thorough load workup today, but a high temp of 3 degrees and lots of snow didn't make me feel very scientific so instead I just threw 23.4gr of XBR in some prepped LC cases at max mag length on my 550 and ended up shooting a bunch instead of any serious testing.

I was pleasantly surprised by them. Before I talk about group sizes I'll preface with rifle details. It's my 16" rifle gas 3 gun blaster with a 1-6x optic with a fairly coarse reticle. Not a benchrest gun by any means and I don't want max pressure loads because of the low mass components/light springs in the gun, and reliability trumps ballistics every time for match use.

That out of the way, 4 five shot groups averaged right at 1" which is actually about as good as I can usually do with a 6x optic while lifting my head between shots to write down velocities. Velocities were better than expected at 2650fps avg with 50fps extreme spread (remember, charged on a progressive press for 3 gun, not F-class..) with only slight primer flattening, and that doesn't take much with CCI400's.

The only steel not buried by snow was at 400 yards and using a .45 G1 BC got centered hits on a 6" plate using exactly the holdover Strelok predicted. Obviously that's not far enough to accurately true up BC but it must be ballpark.

I'll do more testing when it gets warmer and test them in my precision AR but I think I'm off to a good start for my intended use. If it holds 1 MOA-ish and doesn't exhibit the wild random flyers I always had with the 70gr RDF's I'll be satisfied.

Tony, is the barrel on your 16 inch mentioned here from BHW?

 

[MarinePMI]

Found a node with XBR and 75ELDM’s at 24.3grs...

 

[bunsen27]

Found a node with XBR and 75ELDM’s at 24.3grs...

That appears a touch warm is that seated at mag length for an AR or seated out for a bolt gun? My go to 77gr load is 23.1gr in LC brass w/CCI41's seated a touch under mag length around 2.248in.

I run my 75gr ELDM's over 25.2gr of TAC in Lapua brass w/CCI41's. I'm getting 2975fps in a 26" barrel. It's a hot load, but seated out to ~2.545in for a bolt gun.

 

[MarinePMI]

Seated out for a bolt gun.