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New 338ARC from Hornady…
- Thread starter sierracharlie338
- Start date
Going against a tough market with 8.6 Blackout and 375 Raptor already "established". Granted this is AR15 based.
They make some compelling arguments in the in depth video, namely shared compatibility on ar15 or arc bolt face platform bolt guns.
It being a small frame is a huge benefit imo. Smaller, lighter, more compact.
For subsonic hunting it's a pretty great option for just an upper swap. It will have more energy, penetration and wounding vs 300 blk as well.
I think this will be successful enough to last. I'll likely build or buy an upper.
A lot of people I know liked the 8.6 blk concept but had little interest in building a large frame ar10 sbr/pistol to do so. They will very likely buy an upper in this though.
For subsonic hunting it's a pretty great option for just an upper swap. It will have more energy, penetration and wounding vs 300 blk as well.
I think this will be successful enough to last. I'll likely build or buy an upper.
A lot of people I know liked the 8.6 blk concept but had little interest in building a large frame ar10 sbr/pistol to do so. They will very likely buy an upper in this though.
+ but seems a gamble in the feared/harris to come huge anti gun action if she gets in. ammo availability will be an issue as always with a new round. would be nice to have a straight up upper change. will watch it all later. but,needing diff/new mags or not? IMHO 300 BO is a joke. yea can use AR stuff but well less power than x39. want a lower powered 30 cal for use 200 or less? buy an AK. for me,the 6.8 needing all diff stuff is a deal breaker. 308 light AR would be great but the sfar is looking +/- from what i hear. had a rogue and was way not impressed. would love to leave my big commitment to 5.56 into 308 for all and everything. my hangup is ammo availability in SHTF. 308/7.62 & 223/5.56 will be the last to disappear.
Very reminiscent of the 1930s-1940s when gas operated magfed rifles began to be fielded gradually by militaries around the world and intermediate cartridges started appearing which bridge the gap between their parent full-power bolt rifle cartridges and pistol caliber SMGs. "Not as large and space filling as the full power rounds, enables more to fit and be carried in mags, cycles and feeds more reliably, and more penetrating power against protective gear like winter greatcoats (orginally issued as winter wear but ended up being used by both Axis and Eastern Bloc Allied forces through all seasons as ad hoc armor against SMG pistol rounds)...
But in the current day though, I think .300 BLK is perhaps the last contemporarily introduced cartridge that ensures long term future success or at least presence in circulation. All of the newer ones like this one, 6.8 Western, .21 Sharp Rimfire etc, already HAVE long established counterparts that work just as well and these new cartridges are only diverting more resources into tooling and support that may or may not sustain a given period of time.
But in the current day though, I think .300 BLK is perhaps the last contemporarily introduced cartridge that ensures long term future success or at least presence in circulation. All of the newer ones like this one, 6.8 Western, .21 Sharp Rimfire etc, already HAVE long established counterparts that work just as well and these new cartridges are only diverting more resources into tooling and support that may or may not sustain a given period of time.
++ 100%. being old,i have seen many cartridges come and go. many no loss,some good things. my father used to say,correctly IMHO,that all a hunter in no.am. needed was a 30/06 and 180gr bullets. big bears,big moose likely exceptions.
being old,poor and talent deficient,it is cool but don't see the need for any of the newer stuff. bullet tech in rifles and HGs has been the game changer.
being old,poor and talent deficient,it is cool but don't see the need for any of the newer stuff. bullet tech in rifles and HGs has been the game changer.
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It'll be the new crudsnore due to NOTHING but Hornady marketing.
It is nothing new.
It does nothing that hasn't been done for the last 20 years.
But....it'll have millions of Hornady marketing bucks behind it.
I present evidence
en.wikipedia.org
It is nothing new.
It does nothing that hasn't been done for the last 20 years.
But....it'll have millions of Hornady marketing bucks behind it.
I present evidence
.338 Whisper - Wikipedia
Can you shoot this through a .30 cal suppressor…well…more than once anyway?
in an AR10/full size bolt action platforms, .375 Raptor for the win.
This looks great for the AR15/mini bolt action platforms.
8.6 blk is a joke, and if anyone else other than Kevin Brittingham had introduced it, it would have been a flop. 375 Raptor is better regardless of distance, projectile weight, or any other variable that you want to compare. This new cartridge duplicates the performance of the 8.6 in much smaller packages.
This looks great for the AR15/mini bolt action platforms.
8.6 blk is a joke, and if anyone else other than Kevin Brittingham had introduced it, it would have been a flop. 375 Raptor is better regardless of distance, projectile weight, or any other variable that you want to compare. This new cartridge duplicates the performance of the 8.6 in much smaller packages.
I think this benefits the 375 Raptor. The 8.6BLK hype seemed to stall out a bit. The hype plus stalling out drew attention to the 375 Raptor and smaller platform cartridges like the 338 spectre, razorback, etc.
I think at least a few people, including Hornady, realized you could get close to the 8.6BLK, but in an AR15. If you have a 6ARC rifle already, all you need is a barrel with the 338ARC ( I assume). If you are gonna go large frame, the Raptor wins.
Regarding the fast twist idea, I don't Hornady wanted the headaches that come with that.
I think at least a few people, including Hornady, realized you could get close to the 8.6BLK, but in an AR15. If you have a 6ARC rifle already, all you need is a barrel with the 338ARC ( I assume). If you are gonna go large frame, the Raptor wins.
Regarding the fast twist idea, I don't Hornady wanted the headaches that come with that.
All the new ARC cartridges are simply barely modified old wildcats. I don't think Hornady really denies this.It'll be the new crudsnore due to NOTHING but Hornady marketing.
It is nothing new.
It does nothing that hasn't been done for the last 20 years.
But....it'll have millions of Hornady marketing bucks behind it.
I present evidence
.338 Whisper - Wikipedia
.22 PPC - Wikipedia
And what are the creedmore 6 and 6.5 ?All the new ARC cartridges are simply barely modified old wildcats. I don't think Hornady really denies this.
.22 PPC - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
.243......257 roberts.....260 rem.....you could even argue 250-3000 savage.
Hornady marketing.
Hornady vs small potatoes is not a tough market , so far they managed to push trough every cartridge they launched in past couple of years. Besides just having it for Ar15 will be a boon
It's not hornady marketing. It's Hornady supporting their cartridges with ammo and components. Not to mention making things that work in a very popular, easily modifiable, and relatively cheap to work on rifle.
You should be stacking your own caliber that should get you through the initial phase of the fall of our Republic. After that, you probably won't need too much.
Giddy Up - times a' wastin
The more rounds you shoot the easier it gets
I haven’t compared 8.6 Blackout case capacity to subsonic powder charges to get an idea of how full the case is but powder stacking is very much an issue affecting SD’s and ES’s. I took a class from Pete Gould (retired CAG CSM and SOTIC instructor) who said that powder stacking was very much an issue that the unit had to contend with using subsonic rounds. The proof will be in the pudding but that little ARC case looks like it doesn’t have any spare room for a subsonic load of powder to slosh around in. Hornady claims superior ES’s and SD’s, we will see when this stuff hits the streets.
Nobody can convince me a subsonic center-fire is anything but a toy.
Just use a 9mm if you've got to be silly.
Just use a 9mm if you've got to be silly.
Or a 45 since all standard ammo is subsonic.
He had some ok points but my favorite was him complaining that a $400 bolt from Geissele for the ARC (haven't seen them for sale anywhere or for that price, Noveske is $145) while he builds $4.4k AR10 pistols.The 338 ARC can’t be all bad if Kevin already put out a video shitting on it.
Personally I don't think I'll go 338 ARC but I also probably won't go 8.6 BLK. If they could push the 230 ELD X to a respectable velocity, the 8.6 would be awesome but that doesn't seem to be in the cards
To all those 5.56/223 for SHTF, do you think the military is going to be paving roads with ammo they just dropped?
I read a book from a marine that landed on Paleliu during WWII. The after action included policing every piece of brass on the island.
Stock what you need. Don’t expect a resupply drop in a little wooden crate, floating down under a little white parachute, like you saw in those video games.
I read a book from a marine that landed on Paleliu during WWII. The after action included policing every piece of brass on the island.
Stock what you need. Don’t expect a resupply drop in a little wooden crate, floating down under a little white parachute, like you saw in those video games.
Like I said earlier, if anyone other than Kevin had introduced the 8.6 blk, they would have been laughed out of the room. He needs to embrace his inner savant and just build suppressors, because he does that exceptionally well.
Other than Kevin and his fanboys, the general consensus is that the 375 Raptor (no, I don't have one.........yet) is head and shoulders above the 8.6. The .338 ARC seems to be a better option of the ARC/BLK decision.
Why would anyone want to carry an AR-10 to get AR-15 performance?
Other than Kevin and his fanboys, the general consensus is that the 375 Raptor (no, I don't have one.........yet) is head and shoulders above the 8.6. The .338 ARC seems to be a better option of the ARC/BLK decision.
Why would anyone want to carry an AR-10 to get AR-15 performance?
I agree that this is mostly due to Hornady marketing. I actually watched part of the video before seeing this thread.
And I do like Hornady stuff and even have a 7 PRC and I have been getting results I like with the PH 175 gr ELD-X.
However, as pointed out in the video above and elsewhere, you can get what you need from 300BO and 8.6BO.
And I do like Hornady stuff and even have a 7 PRC and I have been getting results I like with the PH 175 gr ELD-X.
However, as pointed out in the video above and elsewhere, you can get what you need from 300BO and 8.6BO.
true enough. doesn't change my stocking 9,5.56,308. there are other choices of course. 6.5,x 39,45 also would work for me. but,i have what i have and hope could make due. transporting IF one planned to leave would maybe alter choices,or not.
I will throw in another Con, this will require a .33 cal. suppressor. They tend to be large, heavy, and pricey when compared to a .30 cal. suppressor. That is why I have stuck with a .300 Blk versus trying out the 8.6 Blk.
I’d think a pistol suppressor should be sufficient.
Runs at 300 BO pressure, so if you have a 9mm or 45 cal pistol can rated for 300 BO, it should be fine for 338 arc. I happen to have a 9mm can rated for 308 win, so I’m likely set if I decide to make the jump. I’ll see how spendy everything is before ditching 300BO.
Just use a pistol can. I used to use a 45cal suppressor on my 338 Spectre just fine.
Doc
I watched that video and there were a number of cons. But, it is like any gadget. We are powerless not to consider it.
Like wildcats such as .224 Valkyrie. I have met zero people who hunt with it and not really knowing anyone competing with it. But it scratches someones itch.
And there is already an AR platform for close range hunting. Straight walls, like the .450 Bush Master. Good for 150 yards and closer.
One of the public lands that I hunt recently changed rules to where now, you can only hunt in general season with archery (including crossbow,) muzzleloader, and shotgun (slug or shot.)
But if someone wants to go for this, why not? Who thought 8.6 BO would take off?
There have been naysayers who predicted 7 PRC would not do so well because we already have the 7 RM. Well, that one is still going strong. Why?
Cool factor. Always a neat thing to spend more hard-earned money on.
Like wildcats such as .224 Valkyrie. I have met zero people who hunt with it and not really knowing anyone competing with it. But it scratches someones itch.
And there is already an AR platform for close range hunting. Straight walls, like the .450 Bush Master. Good for 150 yards and closer.
One of the public lands that I hunt recently changed rules to where now, you can only hunt in general season with archery (including crossbow,) muzzleloader, and shotgun (slug or shot.)
But if someone wants to go for this, why not? Who thought 8.6 BO would take off?
There have been naysayers who predicted 7 PRC would not do so well because we already have the 7 RM. Well, that one is still going strong. Why?
Cool factor. Always a neat thing to spend more hard-earned money on.
Silencerco Hybrid 46 is mid-range in both weight and price, and it works up to .46 caliber. We have two, and they have been used from .22-250 up to .45-70 and numerous rounds in between. Zero issues, effective for all I have tested so far. Works exceptionally well on .25-06 and .280 Ackley.
I have lost count of how many critters died without me having to put on hearing protection, which is a real plus when hunting thick brush or when a buck is chasing a doe across a sendero. One of my B&C class bucks was shot trying to get under a fence on the property line, chasing a doe. I literally had seconds to aim and fire, and fiddling with muffs or plugs would have resulted in not getting a shot at him.
I get it, you can wear muffs all the time, but they get a bit warm in South Texas, or early season in Georgia.
I could buy a dedicated 30 cal can, and still might, but it just doesn't seem worth it to save 4-7 ounces, when my sidearm that I always carry weighs at least double that.
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Yeah 9mm cans with subs in the .338 ARC will be fine. I can check with the lab tomorrow but supers might be a little much on short barrels for pistol cans.
Also, most .30 cal cans are in the realm of .360-.400" bore... Your call. Kind of like 6mm in 5.56 cans. Nobody is going to outright recommend it but lots of people do it without issues.
Points also being, this is a rifle round, and the majority of rifle shooters are not running a caliber/round bigger than .30 cal., so they are also not running a suppressor bigger than .30 caliber.
Some shooters are OK running a larger caliber suppressor, to have a "one works on all approach", but many run caliber specific for max sound suppression.
If you are also going to try and use a pistol suppressor on a rifle, there is a chance that you are going to have to "rebuild or reconfigure" the mount given the piston mount needed for a pistol or the difference in threads.
All responses are valid points, and things that any shooter should consider if you are looking to add a .338 caliber option to your rifles.
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