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New Air Force Training
- Thread starter kilo7788
- Start date
Re: New Air Force Training
About the worst thing the Airforce could do is have an Airforce instructor try to teach shooting.
sorry but it's just not in their skillset. And quite frankly given the mission of most of that branch it's fairly unnecessary.
The "Every Marine a rifleman" type saying does not apply to them.
Bottom line is you don't go into that branch of service because you want to be a shooter. You go because you want to eat great chow, serve with women that look like women, and sleep in "dorms".
About the worst thing the Airforce could do is have an Airforce instructor try to teach shooting.
sorry but it's just not in their skillset. And quite frankly given the mission of most of that branch it's fairly unnecessary.
The "Every Marine a rifleman" type saying does not apply to them.
Bottom line is you don't go into that branch of service because you want to be a shooter. You go because you want to eat great chow, serve with women that look like women, and sleep in "dorms".
Re: Nwe Air Force Training
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boom2336</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well as a PMI in the Marine Corps I feel the best most important thing for shooters is fundementals. You have to have a strong base and master these before you can start expanding your training. If you look at recruits in boot camp the spend like 1 week learning bone support, natural point of aim, trigger control, muscular relaxation...ect ect. Then we spend a week just sitting in positions. Hurting and aching contortiting ourselves into positions that for 98% are completely foreign. Then it is off to the range. And I can tell you from experience that if someone has paid attention and learned everyhting and commited it to memory then my job coaching on the range is done. They will hit black all day long.They might need a nudge or reminder here and there but for the most part on auto pilot.
Now I know that the USAF will not incorperate this into basic training since every airmen is not a rifleman. But if you want your Airmen to actually learn how to shoot and not just waste brass on the range then you need to have a Grass week(or how ever many days you can allocate) and sit the shooters down and teach them the fundementals/positions. And the most important part of all this is knowledgeable instructors that actually care about teaching. If you can get this accomplished before the shooter actually steps onto a live firing range then the hard part is done. Now all you have to do is minor coaching into the black. </div></div>
+1
I don't see how you can do anything other than get them to shoot in the correct direction in 2 days, seriously I think it should be a week at least. I was a range coach in the marines and I still thought 2 weeks in boot camp was too short, but I guess if you have to 2 days of instruction/snap in time, and 2 days of live fire and qual on friday. That would be the only way I could see USAF shooters to get even remotely proficient. Not sure what you can accomplish in only 2 days, but good luck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boom2336</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well as a PMI in the Marine Corps I feel the best most important thing for shooters is fundementals. You have to have a strong base and master these before you can start expanding your training. If you look at recruits in boot camp the spend like 1 week learning bone support, natural point of aim, trigger control, muscular relaxation...ect ect. Then we spend a week just sitting in positions. Hurting and aching contortiting ourselves into positions that for 98% are completely foreign. Then it is off to the range. And I can tell you from experience that if someone has paid attention and learned everyhting and commited it to memory then my job coaching on the range is done. They will hit black all day long.They might need a nudge or reminder here and there but for the most part on auto pilot.
Now I know that the USAF will not incorperate this into basic training since every airmen is not a rifleman. But if you want your Airmen to actually learn how to shoot and not just waste brass on the range then you need to have a Grass week(or how ever many days you can allocate) and sit the shooters down and teach them the fundementals/positions. And the most important part of all this is knowledgeable instructors that actually care about teaching. If you can get this accomplished before the shooter actually steps onto a live firing range then the hard part is done. Now all you have to do is minor coaching into the black. </div></div>
+1
I don't see how you can do anything other than get them to shoot in the correct direction in 2 days, seriously I think it should be a week at least. I was a range coach in the marines and I still thought 2 weeks in boot camp was too short, but I guess if you have to 2 days of instruction/snap in time, and 2 days of live fire and qual on friday. That would be the only way I could see USAF shooters to get even remotely proficient. Not sure what you can accomplish in only 2 days, but good luck.
Re: New Air Force Training
The follow is a myth (false) that has been around for some time. Even though it is not true, it does bring up the point that what would happen if a forward operation base got overrun.
Variations exist, but the general story reports that 18th Wing airmen (read officers) behaved in a cowardly manner during a previous conflict. One account claims that during the Korean War, 18th Wing pilots fled (with their aircraft) in the face of a brutal Communist attack against the operating base.
The remaining ground crews, undefended, faced the wrath of the advancing enemy; some were strung up with wire from hangar rafters.
Again, good war story, but untrue, but it does point out a possible scenario. Back in the day I was assigned to a AF Command and Reporting Center (CRC) in a nutshell a mobile air traffic control squadron. Maybe 20 miles behind the FEBA. We had no defense support except organic to the squadron. Although it was more likely we would get wiped out with a ARM we had just ourselves to defend a ground attack. As a whole AF does work in offices/flight lines far away from a battle field, but there are specific tasking that personnel need to know what end of a weapon to point in the general direction of a threat.
The follow is a myth (false) that has been around for some time. Even though it is not true, it does bring up the point that what would happen if a forward operation base got overrun.
Variations exist, but the general story reports that 18th Wing airmen (read officers) behaved in a cowardly manner during a previous conflict. One account claims that during the Korean War, 18th Wing pilots fled (with their aircraft) in the face of a brutal Communist attack against the operating base.
The remaining ground crews, undefended, faced the wrath of the advancing enemy; some were strung up with wire from hangar rafters.
Again, good war story, but untrue, but it does point out a possible scenario. Back in the day I was assigned to a AF Command and Reporting Center (CRC) in a nutshell a mobile air traffic control squadron. Maybe 20 miles behind the FEBA. We had no defense support except organic to the squadron. Although it was more likely we would get wiped out with a ARM we had just ourselves to defend a ground attack. As a whole AF does work in offices/flight lines far away from a battle field, but there are specific tasking that personnel need to know what end of a weapon to point in the general direction of a threat.
Re: New Air Force Training
I have taught Army AC/RC/NG, USAF and USN in basic and advanced marksmanship while working as a pre-deployment Instructor for First Army. Over the course of my 1 year on the PPP and 2 years in instructor development, I have learned a few tricks of the trade when teaching the unknowing and in mass numbers.
99% of the Airman that I taught were like sponges and were very quick to learn, it’s all in how you present the training to them.
The primary focus of your PMI needs to be on safety and manipulation of the weapon, this is key to running a successful and safe range day and eliminating a lot of running around on the firing line to correct simple problems. I came up with a formula for doing this and broke it down into basic PT drills. After you teach them these drills, you can simply call the drill in a 1-2-3-4 cadince.
Clearing:
1. Weapon at the low ready (clearing barrel if available)
2. Safety the weapon (make them do it).
3. Remove Ammo (drop magazine and lock bolt to the rear)
4. Check & Charge (Visual check of chamber and charge so bolt slams home)
Load/Reload:
1. Secure magazine from pouch with non-firing hand.
2. Lock magazine in the rifle mag-well.
3. Charge the charging handle.
4. Check & Tap (Pull charging handle about 1 inch and check for brass, then release and tap forward assist)
Tactical Reload:
1. Secure fresh magazine from pouch with non firing hand.
2. Release used magazine while grasping it.
3. Lock fresh magazine in mag-well.
4. Store used magazine in pouch/cargo pocket.
Correct a Stoppage (Immediate):
1. Rotate rifle and check chamber (checking for type of failure if bolt is not fully forward move to remedial)
2. Check magazine.
3. Charge the Charging handle.
4. Return to position and attempt to shoot.
Correct Stoppage (Remedial):
1. Remove magazine.
2. Charge 3 times.
3. Load fresh magazine.
4. Charge & Check.
I would spend about 5-10 minutes on each drill before moving into any of the fundamentals and I had a lot of success with these drills. As with anything demonstrate how you want them to do it, have them do it and then correct as needed.
After I did the manipulations drills I would go right into fundamentals, grip & positions, aiming, trigger control and breathing. After I beat that into them I would work some more drills.
Positions Drill:
1. From low ready to standing ready.
2. Kneeling ready from standing ready.
3. Prone ready from kneeling ready.
4. Standing low ready from prone ready.
Alternative Positions Drill:
1. Squatting ready from standing low ready.
2. Supine ready from squatting ready.
3. Roll over prone from squatting ready.
4. Standing low ready from roll over prone.
I would spend about 10-15 minutes having them do each drill, correcting positions and grip of the weapon. Cheek to stock weld and having the rifle steady and solid. After that was all done I would take them into sight manipulations and explaining a proper zero. Finely I would give them some effects of wind & gravity, manipulating the sights and hold off to counter.
RANGE DAY.
I am a big fan of the M261 (.22 Rimfire Adaptor for AR15/M16), I would spend about 4 hours just letting them shoot as much .22 cal as possible. Making corrections and working on their trigger control, natural point of aim, focusing on the front sight and not the target kid of stuff. If I had time I would run them through the position drills with live fire, but most of the time that was not possible due to time lines.
Then it was off with the M261 and onto M855, I would get them grouped and zeroed and take them to the pop up range (hate that stupid range). But anyway with that training I was able to maintain a 93.4% first time qualification ratio, and a 68% expert qualification ratio…
After range day was complete, I would spend an hour or so with them teaching them to properly clean their weapon and do a proper PMCS.
As for a qualification I used this KD range run down on the Advanced Rifle Marksmanship course I taught.
300 to 5 meter run down (40 rounds and 2 magazines) Target is a E type with 5 point center ring.
300m Five rounds fired from the prone in 60 seconds.
30 seconds to run to 200m
200m Five rounds fired from the kneeling in 45 seconds.
30 secods to run to 100m
100m Five rounds fired from the standing in 30 seconds.
20 seconds to run to 50m
50m Ten rounds fired from the standing in 20 seconds.
15 seconds to run to 25m.
25m five rounds fired from the standing in 15 seconds.
15 second walk and shoot.
25 to 5m ten rounds fired on the move in 15 seconds.
SCORE:
Possible 200 points
Expert 175 – 200
Sharpshooter 155 – 174
Marksman 125 – 154
I have taught Army AC/RC/NG, USAF and USN in basic and advanced marksmanship while working as a pre-deployment Instructor for First Army. Over the course of my 1 year on the PPP and 2 years in instructor development, I have learned a few tricks of the trade when teaching the unknowing and in mass numbers.
99% of the Airman that I taught were like sponges and were very quick to learn, it’s all in how you present the training to them.
The primary focus of your PMI needs to be on safety and manipulation of the weapon, this is key to running a successful and safe range day and eliminating a lot of running around on the firing line to correct simple problems. I came up with a formula for doing this and broke it down into basic PT drills. After you teach them these drills, you can simply call the drill in a 1-2-3-4 cadince.
Clearing:
1. Weapon at the low ready (clearing barrel if available)
2. Safety the weapon (make them do it).
3. Remove Ammo (drop magazine and lock bolt to the rear)
4. Check & Charge (Visual check of chamber and charge so bolt slams home)
Load/Reload:
1. Secure magazine from pouch with non-firing hand.
2. Lock magazine in the rifle mag-well.
3. Charge the charging handle.
4. Check & Tap (Pull charging handle about 1 inch and check for brass, then release and tap forward assist)
Tactical Reload:
1. Secure fresh magazine from pouch with non firing hand.
2. Release used magazine while grasping it.
3. Lock fresh magazine in mag-well.
4. Store used magazine in pouch/cargo pocket.
Correct a Stoppage (Immediate):
1. Rotate rifle and check chamber (checking for type of failure if bolt is not fully forward move to remedial)
2. Check magazine.
3. Charge the Charging handle.
4. Return to position and attempt to shoot.
Correct Stoppage (Remedial):
1. Remove magazine.
2. Charge 3 times.
3. Load fresh magazine.
4. Charge & Check.
I would spend about 5-10 minutes on each drill before moving into any of the fundamentals and I had a lot of success with these drills. As with anything demonstrate how you want them to do it, have them do it and then correct as needed.
After I did the manipulations drills I would go right into fundamentals, grip & positions, aiming, trigger control and breathing. After I beat that into them I would work some more drills.
Positions Drill:
1. From low ready to standing ready.
2. Kneeling ready from standing ready.
3. Prone ready from kneeling ready.
4. Standing low ready from prone ready.
Alternative Positions Drill:
1. Squatting ready from standing low ready.
2. Supine ready from squatting ready.
3. Roll over prone from squatting ready.
4. Standing low ready from roll over prone.
I would spend about 10-15 minutes having them do each drill, correcting positions and grip of the weapon. Cheek to stock weld and having the rifle steady and solid. After that was all done I would take them into sight manipulations and explaining a proper zero. Finely I would give them some effects of wind & gravity, manipulating the sights and hold off to counter.
RANGE DAY.
I am a big fan of the M261 (.22 Rimfire Adaptor for AR15/M16), I would spend about 4 hours just letting them shoot as much .22 cal as possible. Making corrections and working on their trigger control, natural point of aim, focusing on the front sight and not the target kid of stuff. If I had time I would run them through the position drills with live fire, but most of the time that was not possible due to time lines.
Then it was off with the M261 and onto M855, I would get them grouped and zeroed and take them to the pop up range (hate that stupid range). But anyway with that training I was able to maintain a 93.4% first time qualification ratio, and a 68% expert qualification ratio…
After range day was complete, I would spend an hour or so with them teaching them to properly clean their weapon and do a proper PMCS.
As for a qualification I used this KD range run down on the Advanced Rifle Marksmanship course I taught.
300 to 5 meter run down (40 rounds and 2 magazines) Target is a E type with 5 point center ring.
300m Five rounds fired from the prone in 60 seconds.
30 seconds to run to 200m
200m Five rounds fired from the kneeling in 45 seconds.
30 secods to run to 100m
100m Five rounds fired from the standing in 30 seconds.
20 seconds to run to 50m
50m Ten rounds fired from the standing in 20 seconds.
15 seconds to run to 25m.
25m five rounds fired from the standing in 15 seconds.
15 second walk and shoot.
25 to 5m ten rounds fired on the move in 15 seconds.
SCORE:
Possible 200 points
Expert 175 – 200
Sharpshooter 155 – 174
Marksman 125 – 154
